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9:08 AM
@monners Got a 500 on registration, it does say it's still a beta product, though, so that's k, I guess :)
 
@Magikaas Strange... Never seem that. Still, love the direction they're going.
My baby sister is in primary school, is super analytical, loves to play Minecraft. How do I get her interested in real-world programming, and what's the best environment/language to start with?
3
 
hmm, good question
I personally think that something like Java would be suitable here if you could combine it with her love for minecraft. Writing small minecraft plugins and such
although for beginners, Java may be offputting because of it's strict class-based structure
you'd need to understand what classes are and what they do to do anything in Java, which makes it a little uncomfortable to start off with
 
@GNi33 The issue I've come across in my attempts to come up with an example is assumed knowledge. What can I present that doesn't come with all the baggage (whether it be html, linux environment, or whatever)
 
I personally started with Pascal and C
very offputting I think
 
I'm thinking Ruby
 
9:21 AM
the first days staring at a terminal that gives you some strings and numbers may be fun, after that it gets boring really fast without an actual Interface to look at
 
Comes with the added bonus of forcing her to learn the command line :P
 
Ruby could be good, maybe even Python with something like PyGame
or, you know....
JS, starting off with little funny canvas - stuff ;)
 
Right, cool. I don't know PyGame. And yeah, you're spot on in terms of keeping things interesting
 
wait a sec, I'm not even sure if it's called PyGame
yep, it is
 
@GNi33 I would love for it to be JavaScipt, but that comes with sooooo much baggage...
 
9:23 AM
you think?
 
In terms of giving a 10 year old an environment to play and see results? Yeah!
I mean canvas is awesome, but it's not exactly accessable out of the box
 
compiler? no. strict class structure? no. complicated type-based datatypes, that need to be converted by hand? no
you got a browser, you got a canvas - tag. Provide this, and the rest is pretty much given
maybe use a library that abstracts away the (a little weird) Canvas - API and I think it could be a good fit
how is canvas not available out of the box?
 
@GNi33 Hmmm, true. But JavaScript's not exactly an intuitive language
I'm totally spitballing here BTW
 
that's probably true
 
I'd love for here to pick up JavaScript
 
9:27 AM
it's easy to get into nontheless I think, but maybe Ruby would be a better pick
 
Maybe if I could hire @rlemon to teach her for a week, she'd see the cool shit you can do withit
 
Hey
Can I weigh in as someone who was recently a beginner?
 
Absolutely
 
In my opinion, learning strongly typed languages beforehand, while it may be harder, is a much better option.
 
@monners we got some really good canvas-guys in here
 
9:29 AM
If you start off on something weakly typed, bad habits can form veeerry quickly.
 
@GNi33 lol, IKR
 
And you don't need to go deep into strict structuring, only basic OOP
 
@Sippy I agree. I just don't know if it's the best fit for a 10-year-old that just wants to play around to get into it
 
Then introduce to something less strict.
Actually yeah, it would depend what you're doing
If it's just web stuff then strict structure isn't massively important to begin with
I mean .. procedural PHP still exists in commercial contexts ...
 
not web - stuff at all
 
9:31 AM
@Sippy My counter to that (as non-exhaustive as it is) would be that learning JavaScript first, and adhering to best practices even when I didn't understand them, has lead me to understand the language a whole lot better than colleagues (whom I wholeheartedly respect and deffer to) do.
 
string.trim() also removes linebreaks at the end of a string, right? According to MDN, it removes whitespace characters at the start and end of a string, but I can't find on MDN what characters are considered whitespace.
 
@monners Then perhaps we are fundamentally different people :D
When I started learning PHP I coded it like a complete idiot.
Then I went off and did ASP.NET for a while
And it made my PHP code a lot more elegant.
 
I think the best way to get someone like monners sister interested is to play around with stuff that moves. If she's into games like minecraft, try something in canvas (maybe small stuff like making a player move etc. etc.) to get her into programming
 
BUT I may have missed the point completely here I think. If you just wanna introduce the kid to writing stuff that does stuff, maybe ActionScript is a good way to go.
 
after that, maybe introduce her to Java and the small OOP-knowledge you need to do basic stuff in it and connect it with Minecraft, make a very basic Minecraft plugin and see how she's interested in that
if she is, you can build on that and get deeper into Java, OOP and its features
 
9:33 AM
@monners The girl is your kid?
 
@monners I just remembered, @Loktar built something with his children not too long ago. Maybe ask him what he used and how it worked out?
 
Oh
No
It's a sister, you're a good brother then :D
 
JASON, GET YOUR A** OVER HERE!
 
I think as an analogue to how she likes Minecraft, Flash and ActionScript would be a cool way to go.
 
Who is Jason?
 
9:35 AM
Because it's very visual, whatever you code you can see on the screen
 
@Sippy LOL, no, it really is my sister. And, as to your other point, I don't think we're fundamentally different people, I just took a very roundabout way of arriving at software development.
@GNi33 I agree. Ya need something that gives immediate feedback
 
@monners I meant that I might be a lot lazier than you :P
@monners Flash actionscript!
 
@Sippy Adderal is a hell of a motivator when you're looking at senior year in college with no employment prospects :P
 
Lok showed his kids canvas - stuff
 
@monners Lolol
 
9:38 AM
@GNi33 Pocketed. Thanks
lol, honestly, sometimes I think the best things I got out of college were:
1. There's better shit out there for you to learn from
2. Learn to think like a lawyer, even if you're not.
 
@GNi33 @Loktar That.. is awesome.
@monners "better shit out there" +111111111111
I've learned more out of being employed for the last month than I did in my final year of uni. Lol.
 
I got so lucky with my first (and only) web dev professor.
@Sippy Yeah, it's one thing to care, it's another to know what to care about
 
Also, who knew coding was so popular these days?? Haha, my best friend wants me to teach him how to code so he can give up being an electrician and change profession, a bunch of skype friends wanna learn, my little brother wants to learn
@monners True, I also learn a shitload by just sitting in here.
 
Truth of the matter is that if they aren't compelled to learn on their own then they don't face very positive prospects once they know enough to be employed
 
Yeah man, but I found that I wasn't compelled to learn until I actually 'got it'
I went to uni to do software engineering cos I knew it'd make me money if I could nail it, but I didn't develop any kinda passion for it until I understood how to solve all the problems I'd be faced with, ya know?
I mean I always looked at coding as a hobby before uni, but always found it too confusing to get started.
It's a huge learning curve imo.
16 hours ago, by jbolanos
I told my 'customers' that I didn't support anything before IE9 and if they are still using IE9 in a year I was going to push them down a hole.
Roflmao
 
9:46 AM
I left highschool in year 11 to train to be an acrobat in the circus :P
 
@monners country?
 
Australia
 
Oooooooooooooooo
 
Left after two years to study in the States
Started out studying Molecular Biology
 
you live in the states now?
 
9:48 AM
Nope, back in Australia
 
Lol good idea to change :P
Can't imagine there's a huge amount of work in molecular biology unless you love cells.
 
Well, changed from that to Psychology
 
.. man of many talents or man trying to find one? :P
 
I have many.
I met the right group of people in college
People that cared
 
Sweet :D
What part of Aus do you live in?
 
9:50 AM
That weren't really concerned by academia because they actually knew their shit
Victoria (Melbourne)
 
Ahh cool
I wanna move to Aus
 
AKA The World's most Livable City (four years running)
 
Wow ..
Have you heard of Defqon 1?
I think that's in Melbourne
 
is some1 using gul-ruby-sass module?
 
Nope :googles"
 
9:52 AM
@monners I heard that 2
well cant find the isue
...
 
It's a hardstyle music event
Pretty cool if you're into that.
Otherwise it sounds like a whole lotta noise.
 
wow, surprised I haven't heard of it
 
@monners followed by Vienna
 
Used to be a fairly hardcore raver :P
 
Haha, dutch music :D
I go to Defqon 1 in holland every year with a huge group of friends
Like a festival
All different genres of hard dance music
It's fucking cooooool
 
9:54 AM
Always wanted to go to Sensation White
 
We've looked at doing those
White and Black
And tomorrowland as well
Very expensive :/
 
Worth it me thinks. I'd do it.
Buuren, Tiesto, whatever
 
Hello people. Would anyone be so kind to recommend a good, free, charting library? Whatever is most popular among the masses is pretty much what I am looking for.
 
Probably will sometime, depends if I keep breaking my mountain bike or not ^_^
Get back to C# you!
 
Shush @Sippy :-P
 
9:56 AM
:D
 
10:06 AM
@Sippy You ride?
 
@monners Downhill :)
Just replaced the entire front end
 
Ah, I ride road, uphill :P
 
2013 rockshox boxxers
Nukeproof bars and stem
beaut
 
That means absolutely nothing to me :P
 
Haha, it was expensive T_T
 
10:07 AM
^^ It's something I'm training up to
 
Lol
I don't ride bikes uphill :D
 
Weak
 
If you try riding a downhill bike up a hill u crazy
They weigh quite a lot ;D
You ever seen downhill before?
 
Yeah, love watching the X-Games downhill.
Hardcore
But they don't work for it :P
 
Mate3
Red bull downhill world series
They train all year round for that shit :P
 
10:09 AM
Yeah, watched it, two years runnig
I know, I know.
 
:DDDD
You watching this year?
 
Still, different kind of pain :P
 
Totally
 
I'm all about the personal marathon. Wouldn't dream of doing downhill.
 
Ahh
 
10:11 AM
Respect em, just don't understand em (and I suspect they don't understand us)
 
Different mindsets :P
I like flying.
Nailing jumps is a great feeling ^_^
Did you watch the DH world series round last saturday?
At uhh Windham in the US?
I think
 
@Sippy Nope
 
Was beaut
 
Been in a world of concentration at work
 
Everyone was so close until Josh Bryceland went down, last rider of the day
Smashed everyone by like 2 seconds nearly I think :D
 
10:14 AM
I've seen a few of the RedBull featured riders though. fuck, those guys are amazing
 
On downhill or on freeride/big mountain stuff?
Like uhh Cam Zink
He's a fucking animal on big mountain stuff
 
@Sippy Watch this :P youtube.com/watch?v=7ZmJtYaUTa0
 
Seen that
He's awesome as well :D
 
Seen #2?
@Sippy Surely you heard of Martyn Ashton's accident?
 
No?/
 
10:19 AM
Broke his back
No words... fucking tragic.
On the plus side -> Road bikes! Yeah, they can do that :P
 
Is he properly paralysed now?
Or did that happen before RBP2?
 
Last interview I saw him in, yeah
 
Shiiit.
 
Yeah, fuckin' sucks
One of those rare events when street racers and downhill riders all stopped and went Shit. That really fuckin' sucks
 
Mhm.
 
10:24 AM
Anyway, all that shit aside; took some serious balls for those BP1 and BP2 guys to even attempt all that stuff with a road bike!
 
hey monners
 
@AbhishekHingnikar Mmmmyessss?
 
just saying hi bro -_-
 
Ah, right. Hi Bro!
And I don't say that lightly. Everyone I've never said that to is dead to me!
 
:(
 
10:26 AM
i am dead almost.
 
@Sippy Yes, you should be worried. You're on the cusp of no longer existing
 
Shit ..
Man
LLBLGEN is the worst software ever.
Fuck this dal
 
Oh wait, you're from the U.K! lol, WTF would you care? You actually have a sense of humour! (at least I assume you do)
 
^lol
 
@monners would u like to test something for me ?
 
10:28 AM
@AbhishekHingnikar That's totally not to say that you don't have a sense of humour. I know for a fact that you troll someguy and me with your indian syntactic vernacular
 
@monners ;_;
 
@monners na uh
 
@GNi33 Yes. run. Run fast. Run far.
 
I'm from Austria, we speak (something a little like) german. Thus I have no humor
 
monners will bring about the apocalypse.
 
10:29 AM
@GNi33 No homo?
 
NEIN
 
Lol
"something a little like german" also defines Dutch
 
@GNi33 No nein homo?
 
KEIN HOMO
 
@GNi33 wow great photograph
 
10:30 AM
@GNi33 DEIN HOMO?
 
Prague :)
 
english please ?
 
NEIN
;)
we need jAndy to take over this room for german day again
 
non
PARLEZ VOUS FRANCAIS
 
Ok, we've exhausted my very limited understanding of the German language (which I readily admit is not immediately extensible to the rest of Europe), and so I say... You're all wrong!
 
10:32 AM
NEIN
^I germaned
 
ठीक है तो हम भारतीय हिंदी में बात करेंगे
 
Whoever fucking decided to use static collections to store session data
Needs a damn good stabbing
This webforms thing is such a pile of gimp
 
@Sippy What what whaaaat?
 
It's awful.
Web forms itself is awful
But this is bad web forms
Feel my pain.
 
@Sippy What is, the chat?
 
10:33 AM
nonono
the project I'm on atm
 
@Sippy lol. Good good. You past both the test and the tech stack opinion evaluation (at leat in my book, which honest to good mean absolutely nothing. Seriously, you reading this makes you less employable. Didn't you hear me? STOP! Just go away! I'm literally murdering your career and your family dog right now.)
 
But .. we have two dogs
 
.... I get lonely....
 
is it possible to use websockets only with javascript?
 
10:40 AM
i see many people using socket.io , but I have to connect to a Java application and I believe it doesn't implement socket.io protocol.
Therefore I guess I can not use it for so, can I ?
 
@Octavien pro tips for bf3 ?
 
@AbhishekHingnikar bf3 === 'battlefield 3'?
 
Why aren't you playing BF4?
 
Thus protip: Sell it and buy BF4
 
10:42 AM
Totally had an awesome idea. @AbhishekHingnikar @SomeKittensUx2666 @SomeGuy Why don't we have a private minecraft server??
 
@monners i can host one.
 
o/
 
@AbhishekHingnikar Jump over to ECMA room
 
@AbhishekHingnikar :)
 
ohai
 
10:43 AM
Forgive, but never forget!
:P
 
do you have to manually connect Alfred to Dash ? @SterlingArcher
 
@jAndy That's a good question. I also would like to know that.
 
I have installed both.. and downloaded a shitload of docs
but if I use that Alfred lookup thing
it doesn't seem to find any of those docs
also... I hoped that with Alfred you can lookup and highlight keywords, search via context menu and so forth..
that ctrl+alt+cmd+space shortcut .. is a liiiiiiitle bit clunky
 
@monners If you're doing this I want in :O
 
how much is Minecraft now?
always wanted to try it
 
10:48 AM
@GNi33 $15 I think? Dunno, bought it a while ago.
 
Free on piratebay .. hahaha
 
have fun playing it online
 
You can
^_^
 
lol, it's kinda an online thing :P
 
If you're having a private minecraft server
Then you don't need paid versions
Can just connect by IP and set it to offline mode
ez
Just for the record I do have a paid version.
Lol
 
10:50 AM
@Sippy Ok, so it turns out that none of us know anything about Minecraft
 
nah, I'll gladly pay for good stuff
 
@monners Better get your sister involved then ey?
@GNi33 Honestly, if I was the owner of Minecraft, I'd have made it free after I made 25m fucking dollars.
Anyone who still feels they need more money if they have that much is just greedy ^_^
 
why should you? they constantly update it and he has a team behind it
 
Cos that's the way I am.
Once you have enough money, more is meaningless.
 
ever had that much money?
 
10:53 AM
Nope, far less, and I still give my money away :P
 

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