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5:29 AM
@StephenKennedy me too
\o
 
5:53 AM
@StephenKennedy Nope. I took the pooch for a mooch then mindless drivel on Netflix.
@StephenKennedy I have a tumbleweed it seems!
According to this the last was awarded 14 hrs ago - at time of writing
 
 
5 hours later…
Zoe
11:14 AM
Exams done \o/
 
 
1 hour later…
 
2 hours later…
2:10 PM
 
Zoe
@StephenKennedy Good ^^" Got a 6
 
@Zoe out of?
 
Zoe
@StephenKennedy 6. (1-6, 1 is the lowest, 6 is the highest)
 
Zoe
3:14 PM
 3  56665364 (-1)
 3  56613609 (-2)
 3  51051329 (-2)
 3  48045901 (-2)
 3  46214094 (-2)
 3  44308821 (-2)
 3  43355288 (-2)
 3  43019563 (-2)
 3  42938429 (-2)
-- 2019-06-19 rep -17   = 15629
Oof xd
 
@Zoe Stop posting low quality answers! :P
 
Zoe
Those are questions
 
duh ofc
 
Zoe
Several of which are upvoted
 
revenge downvotes are free on questions. my bad.
 
Zoe
3:18 PM
Not sure who I pissed off this time, but I'm worried it won't get reverted
I still have several revenge votes laying around :/
 
8 downvotes within a minute - if they don't get auto reverted the reversal script is drunk
relax, check back tmw
 
Zoe
It didn't revert something it was supposed to though. Lower count, but still. Mod-flag resulted in escalation, from which nothing has happened
 
uh.... June 9... wtf
 
Zoe
Yep. 14 downvotes
reversed the next day
 
Zoe
3:26 PM
There are other unreverted cases though
 
I see Mr Beep*2 has found the targetted blame script
ofc he will use it subtly and not arouse any suspicion at all! or not :)
 
Zoe
xd
 
4:09 PM
hmmm I wonder if anyone has all 4 of the new badges and the retired badges
Skeet surely won't have tumbleweed
wowsers he's got the Peer Pressure badge
why wasn't Peer Pressure removed as "unfriendly" I wonder?
 
Zoe
@StephenKennedy VERY TOXIC SUCH DOWNVOTE DEL ALL TEH VLQ STUFFS YOU WRIET!!!111one
That actually hurt to type :')
 
lol
what's with this 111one stuff?
 
Zoe
4:25 PM
It's "rant exclamation marks"
 
oh... lol
I showed you LOLCODE before right?
 
Zoe
Shift-1 = !, but during an extensive !!!!... spree, one finger can shift off shift (ba dum tss) and result in 1
 
or you know of it independently (excuse me there)
 
Zoe
one is just a continuation
@StephenKennedy yeah, you showed it to me
I think
 
@Zoe yes I get it, thanks, I'm not that stupid
 
Zoe
4:26 PM
I have seen it at least
 
I think I showed you, yeah
 
Zoe
@StephenKennedy Just had to check :p
 
@Zoe I understand
 
5:04 PM
I'm not normally one for cards (quelle surprise) but I just picked a card up which was quite touching
 
Zoe
Huh?
 
I just got a Father's Day card! :D
@zoe ^
 
Zoe
5:22 PM
Oh. ^^"
 
My little nephew was I am told insistent that I should receive a card, so "Dad" has been crossed out and replaced with what he calls me ("Dee Dee", which was the closest he could get to "Steve" when he first learnt to talk)
Isn't that sweet?
"Dad DeeDee you're fab"
@Zoe Are you available for a minute?
 
Zoe
@StephenKennedy yeah
 
it seems the joke about you not having room privs has worn a bit thin, as I have received comms about it (I can't say where or who from)
so putting the joke aside, will you ask for SOCVR privs or do you prefer not to have them?
if you ask I suspect it'll be approved very quickly; if you definitely don't want then please slap me with a wet trout if I ask again
@Zoe ^
 
Zoe
5:38 PM
@StephenKennedy I don't see a need for it
 
:(
I hate trout
 
Zoe
Would a salmon be better?
 
waves
 
5:40 PM
o/
 
Zoe
@StephenKennedy ?
 
@Zoe I kinda feel that having privs makes you an established regular, and I want you to be an established regular - for the same reasons I endorsed you in the mod election
but if you don't want we'll put it to bed and I'll try not to mention it again
 
@StephenKennedy Hey old man! Too much talking here, not enough serving. When are the waffles coming?
 
Zoe
@Matthew serve yourself (/-_-)/
@StephenKennedy eh...
 
@Matthew Who are you calling old?! And would you like fries with that?
 
5:50 PM
@StephenKennedy Fries with waffles? o.O
 
Zoe
Yes.
 
Zoe
6:08 PM
-36
A: Why is there no dark theme on SO?

Adam LearWe have no plans to maintain two different styles for Stack Overflow at this time.

 
@Zoe shrug I even code at night using a pure light theme.
 
Zoe
Same
I'm a huge fan of light themes, but that's not really the point
 
\o/ There is more of us out there!
 
Zoe
I tried digging up more, but I've lost track of how many feature requests have been declined or ignored because "we have no plans to <blank> for Stack Overflow at this time"
 
Everyone I know is using the dark theme on everything.
 
Zoe
6:11 PM
And honestly, the dark theme being brought up again has made this bug me more
 
Is it really that big of a deal?
 
Zoe
Yeah
 
Explain
 
Zoe
If you wanna discuss consequences, there's a lot to cover. The problem is that SO has grown so extremely in size, but there isn't much done about a lot of stuff
Far too many feature request remain without a [status-*], chat and the mobile apps are abandoned, and most of the dev efforts appear to be patching bugs, redesigning main, and preparing the next April Fools "joke"
One specific consequence (if you want something specific to reference) is that the CV queue grows out of hand, and we don't have a remote chance in hell of actually covering everything
There's a reason I have 12k downvotes, and there's a reason my downvote to upvote ratio is horrible. I'm attempting to cover as much ground as I can with extremely limited resources. Obviously, everyone is. But even then, stuff slips past moderation. Tumbleweed helped find a lot of these
So, instead of making the trash flow manageable, they remove one of the tools to find some stuff to make sure people keep asking questions
You see the issue here, right? More trashy questions never closed and more trash, no changes to the management system
If you want a real-life example, take literal trash. If you have to clean a large area on your own, it'll take a while. The more tools you have to make your effort count, the faster you'll finish, and the theoretically more you can/want to cover. If you then have an imaginary limit that prevents you from cleaning up more than 50 items per day, while handling a stream of more trash. You can't match the stream in, and you'll therefore never get to the bottom of the pile
That's where SO is at. There's far too few of us who actively close to keep up, and SE is ignoring that. But it's not just these types of feature requests that are ignored
review is terrible, closing limits are weird, the lack of notifications for i.e. edits when closing, otherwise being able to track questions better, chat and the apps are abandoned (and, well, if you've seen the mobile version of chat, you can tell it isn't exactly recently updated)
SO runs on Stacks (TL;DR: open-source, the design system), so they do have the ability to implement i.e. dark themes if they want to
Take this for an instance: meta.stackexchange.com/q/80460/332043
 
6:26 PM
Wait... so they devs outright don't give a shit about the review system as long as reviews are getting done?
 
Zoe
@Matthew To be honest, that's what I'm guessing. There's a lot of things that are on a "as long as it works, we'll stick to periodic patching"-basis
Review is one of those. Chat is another. The apps as well.
 
I am referring to this comment.
So important things concerning the review system get changed only when people go on a strike. Hm... that's not good...
 
Zoe
The Wizard was a step in the right direction, but it neglected answers, it neglected edits, and it neglected users who still don't care and just fill in random stuff
@Matthew Wanna know what they did last time?
 
Shoot
 
Zoe
They fuzzied the numbers in the queue to get the appearance of fewer questions in the queue
 
6:29 PM
Reference please
 
Zoe
Same trash stream, same trashy tools, the only thing that changed was the number.
Hold on
 
@Zoe What do you mean with this? You want to say that more often then not you have to resort to downvoting as a way of moderating content?
 
Zoe
@Matthew To be completely honest, I use downvotes instead of close votes in cases where the question is complete trash and extremely unlikely to be answered.
 
@Zoe Why? I still haven't reached the point where I can close questions so I don't understand all the ins and outs.
 
Zoe
153
Q: Fuzzy the number of questions in the close review queue, a dopamine for the shutterers

randomUsers are freaking out over the number of questions with close votes. More so when they look at the review queue and have to grab a newspaper to fan themselves as they do declare that the high number is giving them palpitations. Currently that number represents all questions waiting for a pillo...

@Matthew Because that means I can theoretically cover up to 90 questions per day (but there's usually less because some downvotes go on questions I also closevote for reasons that depend on the question).
As a result, we can't know how many questions are really in the review queue
 
6:37 PM
I like this solution to the problem.
 
Zoe
Like several others
 
Also I don't know if it's the same for you but I can only review up to 20 items per day, so don't know how you guys are actually getting anything done.
@Zoe "There are no questions tagged status-not-implemented"
 
Zoe
@Matthew the point being, none of the suggestions that can actually help are implemented
Pointless changes, like fuzzying the number, is.
 
Having more available review votes per day would help no?
 
Zoe
It would, if we had more close votes too
 
6:40 PM
I went over the hurdle of having too little flags so that works well.
But I am still capped with 20 reviews no matter what I do :\
 
Zoe
I'm also a huge fan of this feature request
There's basically three ways out of this mess:
1. Reduce the trash stream in
2. Increase the amount of close votes/flags for users that want to review
3. Increase the amount of reviewers
SE is working on #1, but it's slow
 
@Zoe Sounds good to me
 
Zoe
But it'll probably never be implemented, along with several other actually useful feature requests. They haven't even been reviewed, and that's why I honestly don't think they care. Any [status-*] tag would at least settle it
If I go on the Android tag on any weekday, I can burn through my close votes just going through backlog in under an hour
 
Yea I am just a new guy, I don't understand the underlying complexities of participating let along managing a large community such as SO.
 
Zoe
Neither do the devs :]
 
6:46 PM
But my guess would be that the devs are instructed by the shareholders to focus on features that can be monetized in the near future. I am assuming that SE is a for-profit company and that they earn revenue one way or another (probably through adds although I never see them).
 
Zoe
If you want numbers: last week, 46k questions and 49k answers were posted. There were created nearly 11.5k CV review tasks, of which about 800 have been completed, and 5000 have been invalidated
 
This is a pretty generic explanation that is unfortunately correct more often then not.
@Zoe Invalidated?
 
Zoe
@Matthew review tasks that have been kicked out of the queue for natural reasons. I.e. deletion, close vote invalidation, and presumably mod closing (not sure how closing outside queues affect CV review)
oof, there were 951 completed ones
 
@Zoe What is the difference between completed and invalidated then? Both resolve the questions in one way or another.
 
Zoe
@Matthew Unfortunately. But the problem is that if they don't do anything, there will come a day when the trash stream can't be managed at a more horrible rate than currently. 94% invalidation isn't good
@Matthew completed means the review is, well, complete. Invalidation mostly means it hasn't been handled.
 
6:52 PM
Hm, I think I need a glossary over here :D
 
Zoe
So you do the math - 5000 questions invalidated last week alone. That's 25000 close votes, or 500 users.
There's about 57.8k users with 3k or more rep
Or give or take 2890000 close votes
There have been made 641 reviews today. Assuming maxed out, that's 16 users
 
Okay but your point is that SO just doesn't care about this math.
And that they don't see that the community will eventually become unsustainable.
 
Zoe
@Matthew exactly.
If more people give up, there will eventually be no moderation efforts, or at least none large enough to carry the site.
 
Well if it starts affecting their profits I guarantee they will do something about it
So I would say an organized review strike is a good idea
 
Zoe
I follow some users who post duplicate comments and with that you can find a heap of questions that need to be closed. I've considered following you and some other users in the Android and some other tags to go about closing posts. Taking advantage of the binding vote. I start sometimes, but it's too overwhelming. It takes a lot of mental energy to review close votes, decide if they're duplicated- what is the best close reason - is there enough info. there's a limit to how much of that we can do. — Yvette Colomb ♦ May 18 at 11:14
Actual diamond moderators can't keep up, and nothing is done. It pisses me off tbh
@Matthew yeah, it didn't really catch on
 
6:57 PM
"Taking advantage of the binding vote"?
 
Zoe
It resulted in about 300 completed review tasks per week, but the total amount of tasks increased too :/
@Matthew Mods can close questions with one vote.
 
Ah I see
 
Zoe
mods also have unlimited votes, so theoretically, they can go through hundreds of posts per day. The problem being that they also have to keep up with mod flags, so their main priorities are elsewhere. They still make a substantial effort though
 
Well I am doing my best to get to a point where I can help you guys out with close votes, but even then I am just one person with a participation time-limit like every other user.
Aiming to become a moderator would be a good idea, if there were actually slots available. But as it stands even experienced people and RO's like Steph don't stand a chance so that path is senseless for like 99.9% of active users.
 
Zoe
yeah :/ The addition we need to suppress the queue is probably around hundreds, of not a couple thousand. One user can still make a relatively bug impact
I'm planning to run for mod again when there's an election
 
7:03 PM
@Zoe If you do that you are guaranteed to have my vote (if I am permitted to vote).
Would be nice if we had more tiers of moderators, as it stands you're either a nobody or a diamond mod :D
 
Zoe
@Matthew you need 200 rep IIRC to vote. You're well above that ^^"
 
@Zoe Wonderful!
 
Zoe
Mods still have a lot of added stuff to take care of. More mods won't necessarily have much of an impact on the CV queue, because there's a lot of other trash to take care of regular users can't
100
A: What privilege should 30k users get?

Jon EricsonPlease consider this an example proposal. There are a lot of potential pitfalls with comment moderation, so I don't want people to get too excited about this particular idea. It occurs to me that since we really want to hear your ideas, seeding the question was a mistake. Comment moderation A...

That ^ would enable somewhere between 2000 and 5000 users (the reputation league only covers 25000+ and 50000+ and I'm too lazy to use SEDE) to handle comment-related moderation too
Which would offload work from moderators and let them focus more on mod flags
30k privileges were initially polled by a community manager (SE employee) in 2015.
Yet, nothing was implemented.
 
@Zoe Sounds reasonable, but it's been 4 years since that post. It's unlikely that anything from that will ever be implemented.
 
Zoe
Exactly :/
I can use 100 flags per day on NAA NATOs alone. There's about 7000 answers posted per day on average
There's nearly 1000 comments per hour
 
7:27 PM
@Zoe Is there a cap on how much flags you can have?
 
Zoe
@Matthew 100
There's 100 comment flags and 100 post flags (questions + answers)
in addition to 50 close votes, and up to 40 regular votes
 
@Zoe Well I am very close to that number and it's getting quite difficult to use them all like you all said.
 
Zoe
eh, it depends on how active you are
If I wanna use all, I throw in the 10k tools as well as Blaze, and I can finish in a couple hours, depending on activity
Or I can use a SEDE query
 
@Zoe What's that?
I use blaze for comments
 
Zoe
It's of by a week, but it's nice for finding old stuff
 
7:34 PM
@Zoe Which query are you using exactly?
 
Side question: I've just been invited in SOBotics team, what use have I for that?
Ah I see it's just a private stack
 
Zoe
@Matthew There's a bunch of questions and answers regarding, among other things, policies. I have like one answer there - for me at least, it's more reading than writing
 
Okay I am just glad I am a member \o/
 
Zoe
\o/
 
7:48 PM
@Zoe Quick question for you if you don't mind.
 
Zoe
Sure
oh, that was a link xd
 
Zoe
8:07 PM
1
A: Rename [android-gradle] to [android-gradle-plugin]

Shog9So, after going ahead with this a couple of weeks back... It turns out there's a hitch: this tag is currently sponsored, which means the sponsorship needs to be transferred to the new tag. No problem, right? Except... Apparently we're something like 40,000 tags over our limit in Google Ad Manager...

oof xd
 
8:23 PM
@Zoe I absolutely love this query, thank you!
Just used up over 10 flags for one single question, with every other comment being "Thank you sir, you've helped me so much, oh thank you thank you!!"
 
Zoe
9:08 PM
@Matthew Just remember to mod flag instead of flagging individual comments if there's an extreme amount of comments
@Matthew np ^^
 
 
1 hour later…
10:23 PM
@Matthew That sounds like a good way to out-flag double-beep :) Don't tell him! ;)
I guess beep beep has passed me now (~9k)
 
10:44 PM
Cooeee
Anyone know why sometimes --- doesn't create a line under code ?
In my answer here there should be a line before purists.
 
Well there is now :) [an extra blank line is what is needed]
 
 
1 hour later…
11:54 PM
@StephenKennedy thanks. I thought I had pressed several blank lines in between trying to get the damn thing to appear.
 

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