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10:00 PM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Jon Harper
Wait, you can already customize the move to chat text? Adding that as a feature to help with clarification was, if I read correctly, what inspired this Q&A. Perhaps how often it is used should be given a look? — Jon Harper 3 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Davy M
@Mari-LouA Well, Sara is Tim's boss, and she's doubled down on that statistic. I guess it is premature to say it's official, but if it's not, it was very very premature to use it. — Davy M 4 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Trilarion
"It's not about giving up, it's about being told by a business, hey this is our business, we control it and this is what we are not willing to give." I know, for-profit businesses are all about money. We should all be aware of it, every day. But giving up the freedom to have expanded discussions even if they are almost all futile, doesn't make sense. Nobody is going to be happier because of it. We need to be aware that little we say has any influence, but if we want to have extended discussions in comments about it, why not. Maybe that's exactly what we need (as long as we are aware of ...). — Trilarion 6 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
"cause an uproar" If every rejected edit would cause an uproar, this site wouldn't last long... We're not accepting edits just because it'd be unfriendly to reject them, are we? Edit should be accepted because they improve the post... — Cerbrus 10 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Trilarion
I read the Should the mod team tighten up? only afterwards. I wonder what standards you mean. The past standards applied up to recently or the current standards or the planned standards? — Trilarion 2 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Mari-Lou A
@CharlieBrumbaugh I was right, it is political. The user is free to never use the term dude in their life but never have I heard anyone accusing the word "dude" of being sexist. This isn't about rejecting inclusivity, it's about respecting an author's or programmer's choice of expression. Although, the accompanying rejecting message was worded too harshly, there are better and kinder ways to reject a suggested edit. — Mari-Lou A 3 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Makoto
@Marco13: I'm going to resist the temptation to call Twitter out of its name or its scope, but I suspect that this is a more innocent disconnect. A user makes an edit, isn't aware of (or isn't comfortable with) posting to Meta to discuss it, so they ping someone on Twitter to make the change instead. Ideally, we'd want to coax them into coming to Meta instead to have a conversation. The obvious risk that this runs is that the person doesn't get the outcome they want, but having the discussion here rather than there would be better in my mind. — Makoto 5 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Shog9
The oversight is as follows, @mason: ALL moderators on Stack Overflow can see ALL deleted comments (on SO or MSO). ALL moderators on Stack Overflow can, if need-be, restore comments deleted by a different moderator on SO or MSO. This should be sufficient to resolve any overreach - but if you're concerned that it is not, post an answer: deleted answers are visible to both moderators and any user with >= 10K reputation, thus greatly increasing the amount of potential oversight. — Shog9 ♦ 6 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Trilarion
I don't really like the "somebody is afraid of coming here" part. It's not specific enough. Problems should be a bit more clearly stated, otherwise there is not much hope to find the right solutions to them, or is there? — Trilarion 7 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Charlie Brumbaugh
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Mari-Lou A
@GeorgeStocker thank you posting a comment and explaining your point of view but I formally disagree. An edit should improve the legibility of a post, it should fix typos, improve the formatting, make it easier to read and understand. If a post includes code, I imagine the error must be left alone, and users post their answers explaining where the error lies. If replacing "dude" with person makes the code better than that should have been said so in an answer, not in a suggested edit. — Mari-Lou A 22 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by StoryTeller
The new answers to this question bumped it. This is likely why you saw it in the active tab. Tim's answer appears to be the new policy setter, in response to the tweet. — StoryTeller 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Marco13
MariLouA: The discussion will go on forever ;-) @GeorgeStocker I find it questionable how you turn the tables here. From my observation, "being right" is the primary goal of many (maybe not all) people who propose changes like this (and when they mobilize the twitter mob when things aren't going the way they want, this tells you a lot). The edit (and similar ones) do have zero technical (!) value. We could now debate their value on "inclusiveness", and I have a strong opinion here, but reviewers should be free to reject an edit that they consider unnecessary. That's what the review is for. — Marco13 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
Yea, I know, and I agree. — Cerbrus 2 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Makoto
@Cerbrus: This has happened before. Not necessarily the edit workflow, but the fact that someone has held a conversation regarding a problem with something on a Stack Exchange site and has had it resolved via social media is a recurring pattern. That needs to be discussed. — Makoto 2 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by George Stocker
@marco13 “how to win friends and influence people “ has a good chapter on this. — George Stocker ♦ 3 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Mari-Lou A
I've just realized that I've posted an answer to a question that was posted a year ago but the tweet in the link above is dated 30 July? What? — Mari-Lou A 5 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by George Stocker
@mari-LouA does it matter? The two choices are: accept the edit and life goes on as normal for everyone involved, or reject the edit, and alienate a new contributor, cause an uproar, and have nothing to show for it but that we are insular and unwelcoming to new contributors. If your goal is a thriving and healthy community, you accept the edit, say thank you, and continue on about your day. If your goal is to be “right” and not care how that affects the larger community, then reject it. — George Stocker ♦ 6 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
@Makoto: I'd prefer a mod flag over a meta discussion... Not every rejected edit needs a discussion. — Cerbrus 8 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cullub
This is in response to that. However, the standards themselves don't seem to have changed much. That said, I'd like really specific rules and examples of how things will work. — Cullub 11 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by StoryTeller
Yes, sadly, again. — StoryTeller 3 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Mari-Lou A
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Catija
I upload images from mobile (iOS) all the time. — Catija ♦ 34 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Mari-Lou A
@GeorgeStocker I'm just curious but could you confirm, the person who tweeted their perplessity said that the accompanying message rejecting their edit staed deliberately destructive is that true? Was that the message? Was the term destructive actually used? — Mari-Lou A 47 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Davy M
@Billynoah Silence! Or the hand will drag you down to the depths of /dev/null! (Nah but really, that one from the banner looks wayyy different than the one used in this post) — Davy M 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by billynoah
@DavyM - You can't fool me, you've known what it is since this comment ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ — billynoah 5 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by George Stocker
@mari-loua you’re welcome. Ultimately we take our cue of what is acceptable from Stack Overflow the company. It’s always been that way. They own the property and set the vision. We are the ones who tend the farm land, but we don’t own the land. — George Stocker ♦ 6 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Charlie Brumbaugh
@Catija I do it from a mobile device too, but I have to request the desktop site in order to do it. It would be nice to be able to upload from the version of chat — Charlie Brumbaugh 37 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Mari-Lou A
@Shog9 Spam! That edit isn't spam nor is it vandalism. It never occurred to me that two users could have selected that reason for rejecting that type of edit. So, now SE has to run and repair bridges. I get it now. — Mari-Lou A 2 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Servy
@GeorgeStocker Just because you think that answers are more visible than comments doesn't justify mods deleting useful and constructive comments that express opinions they don't like. Deleting them doesn't make those comments more visible. It's just abusing your position. — Servy 2 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Servy
@GeorgeStocker You can't say, "None of the moderators have any interest in suppressing anyone's opinions." And then explain why it's okay that moderators are suppressing people's opinions just because they're comments and not answers. What you're actually saying is, "moderators will suppress people's opinions in comments, but not if they post an answer", which is absurd, because not all information belongs in an answer on meta. — Servy 3 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Shog9
Yes, @Mari-LouA - it's part of the default "spam or vandalism" rejection reason. Which, I hope we can agree, doesn't apply in this case. — Shog9 ♦ 5 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Mari-Lou A
Megan says It's not okay it was declined and the pre-canned message is inappropriate. is that true? On EL&U we don't have that message, we mention edits that are "harmful" or "clearly conflicts with author's intent". But on SO these boilerplate messages are different? — Mari-Lou A 5 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Davy M
@Mari-LouA You can see for yourself, here's the suggested edit in question. Note that this twitter-highlighted edit was a different edit than the one that spawned this question originally. — Davy M 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cypher
How does one know that the banner has been put up? Is there a notification that is delivered or can be signed up for? Not everyone visits the site daily, weekly, or even on a regular basis of any kind, but would like to participate... — Cypher 3 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Andrew Morton
If someone could pin down where the SO CEO said he thinks chat is stupid in a Stack Exchange podcast a couple of years ago [ed: approximately 2016] from the comments here, that might bolster this answer. — Andrew Morton 4 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Servy
@DavidC.Rankin Why do you believe that it's not possible for every answer to a question to not be useful? Also note that downvotes are for answer that aren't useful, not for answers that aren't correct. Lots of things can make a correct answer not be useful. Serious problems with a question have a very high likelihood of making answers to it not useful. That's what makes them problems with the question. So poor questions are very likely to result in all answers not being useful. — Servy 7 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cypher
This is why I avoid SO 'chat'. It's annoying trying to follow a conversation, if you can even call it that. It's more like a group of people tossing ideas out in the wind with no structure. That's not a conversation, that's a group of people just standing around making noise. Kinda like these comments... — Cypher 8 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Servy
@RobertHarvey "as long as your comment is constructive, on topic, not an extended discussion, and civil, it's going to stay around (with very few exceptions)." And yet the first comment I posted on this answer was constructive, on topic, being just one comment, clearly not an extended discussion, and was civil. It just pointed out something you did wrong, so you or another mod deleted it, because it makes you look bad. — Servy 10 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Mari-Lou A
@DavyM I'm beginning to see the light now :). It's a different edit, and the suggested edit is replacing "guy" with "person" and there are other edits which actually improve the legibility of the post. I see the profiles of the users who rejected the edit are school kids... They just clicked on the easiest option. Kids... Oh dear, well the PR damage seems to have been repaired. TBC I have no idea if firstrepo is a legitimate edit to add into someone's code, I think not. — Mari-Lou A 5 mins ago
 
11:39 PM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Mari-Lou A
@Shog9 Still...you got to hand it to that user/twitterer, they probably knew asking about their rejected edit on meta would have got them nowhere but going on social media and tweeting about it would. And see just how quickly the team reacted. In reflection, the action Catija took was probably the right one but this is a dangerous route, SO is only inviting future trouble. Anyone using the trigger word inclusivity on social media will know they can affect real change in a company's policies. — Mari-Lou A 5 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Catija
Agreed... protip: use landscape mode. ;) — Catija ♦ 7 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by scohe001
@Catija edited to specify that I mean the mobile site. "Request desktop site -> zoom -> pan -> zoom -> repeat -> find button -> pan -> zoom -> pan -> upload" is waaaaay too many taps for what should be a simple action. — scohe001 8 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by sth
@GeorgeStocker Your comment is clearly unrelated to this answer and should be posted as a separate meta question. — sth 3 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by mason
@GeorgeStocker I never said there was no ambiguity or that moderating comments is clear cut. I don't know why you'd bother mentioning an algorithm. Clearly I am questioning your (and your fellow moderator's) judgement on exactly where the line is drawn. Robert and Yvette deleted Servy's perfectly acceptable comments that are now shown in the answer. Then one of you deleted several users comments from this very answer. None of which should have been deleted. — mason 6 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by GrumpyCrouton
@Trilarion It says the author is "Benjamin Dumke-von der Ehe", not sure if that answers your question or not. The link does contain "balpha", but I don't know specifics. I don't remember where I found the script — GrumpyCrouton 6 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by mason
@Shog9 While I'd like to trust our moderators, the length of time they've had their position, no mechanism for the community to recall a moderator, and the fact that not every moderator participates in meta or will see every case leads to a lack of oversight. Coupled with the questionable actions being taken right here in this very thread, I've got a severe lack of faith in these moderators. I'm well aware that 10K rep can see deleted answers, but we're clearly not talking about answers. — mason 9 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by npostavs
I don't see how this answer the question, which is about telling the mods how to use Featured Posts. This answer proposes something that would almost certainly require changes from the SO developers, i.e., not something the mods can do. — npostavs 7 mins ago
 
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