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user3956566
2:41 AM
@pydsigner it's hard to be able to assess and quantify mod skills into a number.
 
user3956566
@Didgeridoo you know what a didgeridoo is? :)
 
3:14 AM
> If the earth had a voice it would be the sound of the Didgeridoo.
 
 
1 hour later…
user3956566
4:21 AM
@JonEricson have you hear one?
 
I have. I lived in Western Australia (Exmouth) for two years as a kid. But I think I only heard them on TV documentaries and such. I would have compared it to Ent voices, I think.
 
user3956566
@JonEricson wow - would you believe I've never been to WA? I'm on the east coast. It's a big country
 
Huge!
 
user3956566
it's funny - to get out of the pacific takes ages and to travel to the next state hours and hours... when people from overseas talk about a long trip - to the average Aussie - it's short
 
user3956566
do you remember Aust well?
 
user3956566
4:39 AM
@JonEricson ^^
 
4:58 AM
hi
 
user3956566
hi
 
5:33 AM
hi
 
user3956566
5:55 AM
hi
 
user3956566
it will be good to have some Aussie mods
3
 
Why is it so?
 
user3956566
timezones
 
Err, then do you want a mod in each of the timezone?
 
user3956566
6:00 AM
that's not the logic of my statement.
 
Oops, that's all what I could parse out of ya statement. Bit poor in Computer logic :p
But yeah, there's no need for timezone specific mods. There's not a single activity which I've come across in 2 years of modding where I felt, "Oh thank god I was there at the right moment and no other mod was awake". There always was another mod present. Also, the needs immediate attention cases are very very rare (the only one which I encountered was a rage unaccept). Can you list out any other cases where you feel that "Yes, this needs a mod immediately"?
 
user3956566
@BhargavRao it's an argument with an inherent logical fallacy.
 
I have been a strong advocate against timezone specific mods. The reason why people think that they need certain mods from certain timezones is just because they lack an understanding of what exactly moderatorship is.
 
user3956566
@BhargavRao I'm not sure why you're confronting me with this particular issue right now, when many people have said it would be good to have an Aussie mod.
 
Okay, do explain it out as to what would the advantage of having "Aussies as mods" be.
I'm asking you because you brought it up here. Why else? ;p
Let people vote for a user. For example, "Rob/Samuel have done this and this for the community, that's why they are good mods, let me vote for them" is a better argument than "Rob/Samuel are Aussies, that is why I am voting for them"
 
user3956566
6:07 AM
@BhargavRao it's not about having mods - because they are in a timezone - the people are well qualified and the fact they're in a particular timezone makes some people happy. Why is there a need to drag things into some kind of debate that implies some lack of insight into moderation or malignant motivation? Seriously - it's not specific to you, the internet is rife with it. And all these side arguments are exhausting after a while.
 
user3956566
No one has said I'm voting for them because their Aussies. You are creating false arguments and putting words into my mouth I have not said. Can you please stop inferring things into my statements?
 
Ok, sorry, I'll walk out.
 
user3956566
@BhargavRao well I would hope you would actually absorb what I'm trying to say, rather than walk out. It's important not to misinterpret people and then put forth an argument based on that misinterpretation. Don't you think?
 
Well, your first statement did mean that you're voting a person for because they're Aussie. If you had mentioned earlier that the candidates are highly qualified alongside the fact that they're aussies, then I'd have also agreed. You inferred that from your statement, because you knew what you wanted to say, but others reading your statement might not have read it in the same way.
I did not want to put words into your mouth or anything. All I did say was, don't use timezone as a metric to vote a user. Use their moderation qualifications instead.
As for the walking out, I walk out of many of the internet arguments because I know they're useless. You do have a known habit of dragging small matters into huge ones, so I saw that it'd be a great shitstorm ahead and I just walked out. I'd rather be out there handling flags than sitting in a chat arguing over voting preferences.
So, I'm really sorry if I have offended you. Your original statement could infact have been interpreted in a completely different way, which I did.
 
user3956566
6:26 AM
@BhargavRao LOL yeh I turn small things into big things...
 
Okay sorry, I turn small things into big things.
 
user3956566
tbh you're sarcasm in this discussion is disappointing. nm
 
Sorry for that, I'll try to improve
3
 
7:33 AM
Morning all! o/
 
morning @BaummitAugen
 
user3956566
8:02 AM
hi, Evening :)
 
8:23 AM
No, morning!
 
Yes, morning!
 
@BhargavRao i'm curious, how big is the other flags queue right now?
 
1.3k
 
just for other?
 
Yes
 
8:27 AM
jesus christ
about 25% of that is me
 
I think I'll do an all-nighter tonight and get some of yours fixed. ;)
@Magisch that's because, I've been avoiding your flags and handling the rest.
 
Is there anything I can do to make mine easier to filter out so y'all can get on the more pressing flags?
I can include a tag or something if that'd help
 
Nah, it's perfect now
 
looks like the new mods will have their work cut out for them, eh?
 
I'm trying to make their life as hard as possible by going through all the 1.8k flags and clearing out every easy one to handle. ;p
 
8:31 AM
I don't actually mind if mods don't do mine and focus on others by the way
They're not time critical, the record is permanent, and they don't expire. So really any other flag is higher priority imo
 
Err, even if you mind, can't help much. (j/k) :D
 
true that
 
76 × Plagiarism
65 × Migration requests
52 × Owner requests post deletion
 
I'm not going to stop flagging until a mod tells me to
 
Some which need attention
And no mod will ever tell you that, so you can be free.
 
8:33 AM
at some point the queue will be empty and someone will have time to go through all those. I never flag a user twice if the first one is still pending either to reduce noise
 
Yeah, the queue will get empty. That's for sure
 
user3956566
8:45 AM
@Magisch I'd love to handle your flags, I just don't think I'll be elected. Your flags sound the most interesting
 
user3956566
@Didgeridoo hello again :)
 
They're really not
Unless you're mad (like me) and enjoy digging through reputation histories for hours at a time
 
user3956566
@Magisch yep - I enjoy looking at voting patterns and rep connections between users. Who's asking and answering each other's questions where it looks a little suspicious
 
10:17 AM
anyone knows what is this ??
 
user3956566
@BijenderSinghShekhawat what? the room?
 
11:52 AM
@BijenderSinghShekhawat It's the place your dreams come true
 
12:05 PM
I wish
 
user3956566
@vaultah well we could all be surprised by the outcome, but I'm don't think so :)
 
@YvetteColomb I would not at all bei surprised by you coming in third.
 
user3956566
@BaummitAugen I don't mind who gets elected - all the candidates are good, especially the ones who did come top 3 in the primaries. :D even eyes :D
 
user3956566
@BaummitAugen it would be nice if we both made it in together
 
"I don't mind who gets elected" yeah right ;)
4
 
12:14 PM
@AndrasDeak Stoicism and stuff
 
@YvetteColomb True, but I find that rather unlikely. XD
 
Of course everyone has an opinion and minds who gets elected
 
More likely either of us gets third, the other fourth.
 
user3956566
@AndrasDeak really I don't. They're all up for the job. Some would probably be better than others, but at the end of the day, they'd all do well
 
user3956566
@BaummitAugen so sad - we ran together last year (with a few others here lol), but we formed a special bond, a bond between a person and a talking, all seeing tree
 
12:17 PM
o.o Always watching. ;)
 
user3956566
@Magisch truly I don't mind - it's a good trick and place to get to and (usually) comes with age. Just letting go... as time goes by and you realise you're past the half way point of your life, you learn to not worry so much. Or if you do get worried, to let it go more quickly.
 
user3956566
@BaummitAugen cute little cartoon tree. Where did you get the pic?
 
Made it myself, with MS Paint. =D
I'm truly not a graphics guy.
 
user3956566
lol nice. I abandoned Windows not so long ago
 
user3956566
@BaummitAugen most programmers are not. I can't decorate anything to save myself.
 
12:20 PM
I've been on Linux for some years now.
 
user3956566
nice - I needed Mac for the mobile development
 
@BaummitAugen you look younger on that picture
 
This avatar is still my crowning achievment in graphic design
 
(MS Paint is only available on Windows, right?)
 
And you can see the pixel line where the TF2 artwork headset was shopped out
 
user3956566
12:22 PM
@vaultah more like Baumschößling mit Augen
 
user3956566
@Magisch I love your happy smiling face avatar. FWIW if you run again, with a bit more rep, I think you will be elected
 
I don't think he will
 
user3956566
@AndrasDeak get elected or run?
 
voters don't like gruff workers :)
@YvetteColomb elected
 
Nothing what I do is public
not even my query
 
12:24 PM
oh, and that ^
 
user3956566
oh you think he's gruff?
 
that has always been my impression :)
 
a manic amount of work goes into the 100 flags a week
 
admittedly we haven't talked much
 
user3956566
Yeh that's the thing with some of you peeps, is you have a site dedication that is missed by many mainstream member
 
user3956566
12:25 PM
Magisch is good hearted and sensitive. That's my take.
 
perhaps we could extend the scoreboard with mod-issued "yeah, this one gives us 100 flags a week, thanks for nothing" aspects
 
user3956566
But I've had a bit to do with him over time. And seen more personal parts
 
@YvetteColomb I never said he wasn't!
 
@YvetteColomb take the path less traveled by
 
style of communication and internal workings are two very different things
 
12:26 PM
I found a niche where I can make some change
 
user3956566
@AndrasDeak agree
 
And help in something that is otherwise complicated and annoying to deal with
 
user3956566
I was also keen on raising voting fraud flags. I had to be careful who handled the flag. As they would sometimes be declined.
 
user3956566
and they take time to investigate - to raise the flag and to handle the flag
 
Flags in good faith are never declined
 
12:27 PM
@YvetteColomb that's flags for ya
@BhargavRao well they sometimes are :P
 
user3956566
@BhargavRao sorry, I disagree with that
 
I even have a meta in mind but I'm not here to kick up dust
 
Ok, sorry, I'm wrong.
3
 
@AndrasDeak by the way, how did mods respond to your flag about reposts?
 
uuuh what reposts?
let me look at my flag history to remember:D
 
12:30 PM
two times wrong today :(
 
Who?
 
Oooh, I know! Yeah, it was probably a sock; one of the users got deleted. By the time I flagged I had realized that there were to-and-fro accepts between the two users elsewhere
this was the Q&A where the asker of the older duplicate question kept posting multiple "I need help with this too!" NAAs
nooo hold on
I got mixed up :( My duplicate flag is still pending... (the one above was a different story, no dupe questions, just socking and NAAs)
 
Yeah, 1325 flags in the queue. It'd get handled eventually
 
Yeah, it's been only 6 days.
 
I should have asked that in another room :(
 
12:34 PM
meh, there are plenty of mods who can trash it if they want to :P
there are way more spammier things being posted here, so...
 
user3956566
@vaultah why?
 
It's on topic, to a degree, as it gives candidates an inside of what is to come.
 
because it's mostly irrelevant here :)
 
user3956566
@Bugs agree
 
agree
 
12:36 PM
agree
 
degree
 
pedigree
 
°
 
Some brie.
(Hope that pronounces right in English.)
 
Yup
 
user3956566
12:38 PM
@BaummitAugen perfectly
 
@BaummitAugen Sweet dreams are made of cheese. Who am I to diss a brie. I cheddar the world & the feta cheese. Everybody’s looking for Stilton…”
 
Phew. =)
 
Completely off topic but there's a song that cheese puns are thrown into
Note the brie...
 
user3956566
@Bugs love that song - the original
 
user3956566
12:39 PM
@BaummitAugen thank goodness for that, you'd have to leave the site if it didn't O>O LOL :D
 
@YvetteColomb Yeah much better than the cheese version although that's all I sing now when it comes on.
 
cool
 
@YvetteColomb Wants to be a mod, but can't even make a proper cheese pun. Ha!
 
user3956566
@Bugs I'm going to have to work hard at keeping that version out of my brain O.o
 
why do you want to be a mod
 
user3956566
12:41 PM
@BaummitAugen it's the baseline for successful moderating.
 
user3956566
@PeterHaddad to whom are you asking?
 
user3956566
@PeterHaddad I enjoy the moderating tasks, and particular enjoy the extra scope you get with moderator privileges.
 
to anyone who wants to answer it
:p
 
I got kicked out in the primary, so not my place
 
user3956566
@Magisch you can answer
 
12:45 PM
I just like moderating. It's fun.
 
I wanted to become a mod because the 20k privileges were very limited. I often found myself ending up with 13~14hrs a day without flags, without close votes, without reviews, etc. Was pretty much frustrated whenever I used to find a dupe and see the message "Come back in 10 hrs". I had just 22k when I ran, so I had very limited deletion powers as well. In short, I didn't want to be constrained.
 
In almost everything, I enjoy finding and helping out behind the scenes more appealing then participating up front
Understanding and improving the mechanics behind something has a certain allure
 
@mag, btw, you can except a small dip in your pending flags today.
 
@BhargavRao Full 35k votes are not hard to burn through, either.
:(
 
I had 2.2k delete votes when I stood for a mod, now I have 53.3k.
Quite sure that 35k delete privs wouldn't have been helpful.
 
12:48 PM
@BhargavRao And you can expect about 30 more today and another 80-100 tomorrow :D
 
Sure
Do flag them.
 
I have 4.5k or so.
 
Uh, then perhaps, I'd have had 6~7k. I was using up all my delete votes.
 
I once reviewed every C++ question with at least one delvote over a few weeks, that added a lot.
 
I think rene would have way more than that ATM.
 
user3956566
1:00 PM
is it ok for mods on SO to go through the close review queue?
 
If you have time, why not?
I've reviewed some 150 one day (and collapsed). Bill used to review regularly
 
user3956566
well on Pets we don't go on the review queues, there's not a lot of activity and it tends to discourage the community to review. But SO is a different story
 
How many flags do you get per week on Pets?
 
@YvetteColomb I doubt a mod could make a dent in the cv queue even if they reviewed 8+ hours a day
 
How many reviews age away per day?
 
user3956566
1:04 PM
9 so far this week. We get excited when we see a flag
 
user3956566
@Magisch yep
 
22k here
 
user3956566
yep
 
General question: Do any of you candidates think that you'd get a chance to review the CV queue on a daily basis?
If you are a mod, that is.
 
@BhargavRao depends on the number of active mods (not a candidate, I know) but personally no
 
user3956566
1:07 PM
as a mod do you still see the red for queues that are above standard size?
 
Probably not. If that was so easy, current mods would deal with it as it stands.
 
user3956566
If I had time I would be happy to look at the close vote queue. Daily? Really not sure, I tend to go onto queues that show up as red
 
We do see the red dots
 
user3956566
if it had red dots, yes.
 
From the outside, I have no reason to believe I could simply do much more than the currently active mods. If the flag queue should ever be empty, reviews would be the next thing to tackle.
 
1:10 PM
If that's the case, then you'd never get to the mod queue. The mod queue's never red ;)
 
@BhargavRao isn'T it just a number on your topbar
 
Yes
 
But flag queue has priority, and does not appear to become boring on a regular basis. XD
 
personally, there is more voting fraud for me to deal with (both not as a mod and if I ever become one) that I don't think I'll have much lounging time between that and the flag queue
 
-3
Q: Why can't all electoral slates in real life be like the 2018 moderators election

Ray MitchellHopefully, this "question" will last for more than 10 seconds before being sent into the ether, but a sincere appreciation for the nominees for moderator this year. Beyond their accrued numbers, their responses to the questionnaires and their introductory statements reflect a real commitment to m...

 
1:11 PM
also a reason why I barely reviewed since I started doing the serial voting thing
 
You'd never get bored in the mod queue.
 
Onebox, onebox, onebox!
 
Pitchforks ready!
 
@BhargavRao now you're making me more sore that I lost :p
 
@Mag, it's 6AM here, I've been up all night, you can imagine ;p
But yeah, in the middle I was off for 3hrs doing some paperwork.
 
1:13 PM
I think I'm just not the type to get elected to anything
 
some paperwork ... you had to go to the toilet?
 
Err, these flowers don't know anythin in human life except toilets :|
 
:D
 
those sweet sweet fertilizers is all they can think of
 
user3956566
@BhargavRao yeh - I know that. I'm talking about helping out in the close vote queue. nm
 
1:16 PM
@AndrasDeak exactly. :p
 
I thought mods were discouraged from burning down the CVQ
 
@AndrasDeak dream about it
 
@AndrasDeak more likely they're snowed under with more important work
and with work that the community can't do
 
More important? MORE IMPORTANT?! Humpfh!
may be if you wouldn't give them so much work they could get rid of all that CVQ backlog :P
 
user3956566
@AndrasDeak we discourage it on Pets.
 
1:19 PM
@AndrasDeak sure lemme just let all these people get away with serial voting
the automated script isn't very thorough
 
@YvetteColomb I seem to remember some explicit remarks that even eager mods shouldn't trawl through the CVQ because it's Not Their Job. And there was also a mod on...physics? math? that closed a loooooot of things, and got severe repercussions. Might have been some subtext there, of course
 
user3956566
we're all trying to tidy up the site. It's like an enormous house, with loads of kids and the housework is never ending
 
@Magisch I know...at least it catches when I see a user with three NAA updates on their post and I downvote all of them...
 
I got a taste of why usually only mods deal with that stuff btw
it's really depressing how many people just outright get away with it
 
user3956566
@AndrasDeak well I did state I wasn't going through the review queues, because of that. Then I wondered about the size of the close queue and how some 1 vote closures could help - a bit
 
1:21 PM
In a way I'm way out of line even going after that stuff
users aren'T supposed to moderate users, just posts
 
No, users can moderate users just fine. Organized modding users is what gets very problematic very fast.
being a concerned citizen and warning the people who pull the trigger is safe :P
 
mhm
 
Oh hey, the election should be over by now
 
6 more hours or so
 
I feel a lot like the only reason nobody has told me to gtfo yet is because it would look really bad publicly and they'd count I'd make a ordeal out of it on meta
 
1:23 PM
oh it was tomorrow as in the end of tomorrow
so 11.5 more hours?
 
@Magisch who would tell you that and why?
 
user3956566
@TylerH suffering from timezoneitis
 
@TylerH stackoverflow.com/election box on the right :|
assuming you're serious :D
 
@YvetteColomb no, I'm suffering from "the election doesn't end at midnight"
 
nobody does, it's my insecurity and not very good intuition speaking
 
1:24 PM
which is news to me; I assumed it would end at midnight GMT because there was no indication that it wouldn't
 
user3956566
@Magisch why?
 
user3956566
you're insecurity - don't worry I see it pop up in your from time to time - I get that too.
 
Maybe I just can't read
 
Or you're too sleepy
 
user3956566
@TylerH the election doesn't end at midnightitis
 
1:25 PM
@BhargavRao It's true; I have a coffee in front of me and somehow have not even had one sip yet
This must be a dream
 
user3956566
mmm coffee
 
@Magisch you're literally only harming abusers, and while you're generating work for mods, surely nobody thinks that's a bad thing (assuming you don't generate unnecessary work for them, which I strongly doubt)
 
The advantage of being an insomniac is, you don't need to sleep ;p
 
@YvetteColomb I have almost famously bad social intuition, it's hard for me to tell if I annoy people or not, thats why I defaulted to assuming I am, it's been mostly accurate so far
 
user3956566
1:27 PM
@Magisch you're hard on yourself. Believe in yourself. Trust me. I have sons your age and you really have a lot to be proud of. If I was your mother, I'd be proud.
 
you really are too hard on yourself, @Magisch, you're doing great work and try not to worry about it :)
 
user3956566
@BhargavRao yes :D
 
user3956566
@AndrasDeak yeh that! much more simple than mine
 
The disadvantage is, you'll die at a young age
2
 
user3956566
insomnia?
 
1:28 PM
well I can't say I'd be proud as his mother, can I?
 
user3956566
lol nope - but I'm good at saying small things in long ways
 
user3956566
it's a gift (a curse?)
 
I love it that "Gift" in German means poison, so maybe both
 
user3956566
In all seriousness I look at the young people on here and it is impressive.
 
user3956566
@AndrasDeak wow - yes that is succinct
 
user3956566
1:32 PM
I'm having trouble sleeping - we have a new horse arriving tomorrow. He's a young boy. Excited!
 
Nice!
 
@BhargavRao I envy you, I need my 8 hours a day
 
Time to review the queues then.
 
user3956566
:D and a foal due next month! Will spam the Tavern with pics
 
@Magisch I'm not an insomniac. I just mentioned about them in general.
 
user3956566
1:33 PM
@BhargavRao fare thee well \o
 
@YvetteColomb Cya, may the power be with you, get those 40 reviews done!
 
user3956566
@BhargavRao ok m'lord! lol
 
@BhargavRao \o/
 
@TylerH err, I was replying to Yvette. As they're having a hard time sleepin, they might as well review the queues. ;)
I ain't going anywhere away from the mod queue. Thinking of handling atleast 25 of Magisch's flags.
 
Oh :-(
Not even the CV queue? :-)
 
1:37 PM
That reminds me I have 30 left to flag today, gotta get going on that
 
@YvetteColomb Hello! :) Yes, I know. Didgeridoo is a national Australian musical instrument.
 
user3956566
@Didgeridoo they're hard to play O.O
 
user3956566
anyway I'll pop off for a while - may be back in time for the results. Night all and Good luck comrades! :D
 
In the middle of the 15th one, it's taken 3hrs, and I've been disturbed chatting.
 
Good night! o/
 
1:39 PM
So @Mag ye can do the math
 
heh
bit onesided that, takes me about 30s to flag one after Makyen's userscript
 
Not sure how much CM time it takes, but the follow up after the CM reply would also take some mod time.
The thing is, you just flag the user, we'll have to dig through a lot of additional info, check 6 other mod only pages of info, tally it with 3 other pages, then do some weird math, and finally forward it to CMs.
So ofc, it has to be onesided ;)
And there's another additional step where, if we find something extra, then we will have to do some extra stuff in TL, which takes more time.
 
Sounds a lot like work ...
 
And you've got 30 mins to do it.
 
@BhargavRao I tried to get in on the work on the other side, but it was deemed not to be
for now this is all I can do
 
1:54 PM
Well, TBH, there was a very easy way for you to do all this. Put all your findings into an excel sheet and send it to the CMs.
In that way, they'd have silently sniped everyone ;)
 
@BhargavRao I already sent them the querys I use to generate these complete with explaination and asking for feedback and a security hole I found while making it
ticket's been pending since last august with no reply or acknowledgement
I don't have a communication channel to the CMs
 
Don't expect CMs to run queries and handle them.
 
You yourself said you don't escalate all of these
 
Providing them with cleansed data, OTOH, would make their job easier and they'd do it.
 
I don't have a way of seeing which ones deserve to be escalated and which ones can be handled by mods
 
1:57 PM
Meh, CMs can handle what mods do + what CMs can do :D
But yeah, not a huge issue atm. Any path is fine.
 
I should ask a CM that. If they'd take a hand reviewed excel spreadsheet instead of flags I'd gladly provide it
I suspect that my tools aren't enough to sufficiently cleanse the data though
 
Cool, away from chat for now. Have to go down to uni in 3hrs, hoping to handle 8 more of your flags before that. (to make it 25)
 
2:27 PM
I would like to know which moderator will fight against SO folding on itself. Many people in the community won't ask questions because it has become a joke. reddit.com/r/ProgrammerHumor/comments/83vsie/heckoverflow
 
2:38 PM
okay?
 
2:53 PM
@YvetteColomb I would argue that as a soft skill, moderation is inherently non-numerical.
 
@pydsigner But... they give us such pretty numbers to compare our moderator activity to the other mods... clearly the numbers must mean something!
 
Handling 30 serial voting flags takes around 4 hrs ... at the same time, we can clear nearly 22k comment flags ... numbers aren't that useful. :|
(takes 10 seconds to clear 15 "thank you" comment flags)
 
@BhargavRao Wow... y'all are slow.
;)
 
I have like 6k spam flags across the network and around 1,3k serial voting flags on SO. The latter has cost me a lot more time
 
err, that's just me. Others are much quicker :)
2.6k flags raised today, and there's still 9hrs left in the day
Time to go to uni to submit some stuff. Cya all later. I'll hope to be back in 3hrs max.
 
3:16 PM
Just voted and was surprised that most of the candidates rarely ask questions. I'd prefer that this should be a criterion that a moderator should have a decent number of own questions and know the community from the point of someone asking a question very well.
 
that sounds like a weird preference
 
@WolfgangFahl I've heard that from a few people. Can you explain why? Moderation has very little to do with asking questions.
 
Not the first time I hear that
 
Maybe I'm the one who's weird. But---without trying to build a strawman, just a vague comparison---this sounds a bit like making police officers sell weed for a month so they see the other side of the game
2
I know it's not the same for many reasons, one among which is that askers are probably not the main source of mod work
I'm genuinely curious for the reasoning though
 
@AndrasDeak I think it's a reasonable idea - particularly if someone is unsure what moderators actually do on SE. New user experience on SE (and particularly) SO is generally considered pretty bad and it's something that's constantly being poked at to see if we can improve it. That said, I think your analogy is a bit flawed. You're making the assumption that a new question writer is doing something wrong or illegal. Many first time askers are perfectly capable.
 
3:21 PM
Asking questions is fundamentally different then answering them
 
Yes, hence my remark about "askers are probably not the main source of mod work". Even if they were incapable, that isn't something a mod should be handling
 
user3956566
@pydsigner yes, to an extent. We can always have some measures of performance. It's hard to quantify the quality an individual brings to an organisation.
 
I started with answering instead of asking (did end up asking some eventually) because answering seemed less intimidating
 
Which part of mod work should be affected by asking questions?
 
Answers just require me to address and find a solution for the problem at hand. Formulating a proper, non duplicate question with enough specificity that hasn't been asked before is really hard
 
3:23 PM
I think it's mostly the "they can't be kind to newbies if they forgot what it is to be one" line of thinking
 
Because one shouldn't be trying to ask questions. Asking a question should be an eventual conclusion when all else has failed you.
if you aim for or incentivize asking questions, you're already doing it wrong
 
@AndrasDeak There's a lot of people out there who think the users (and by association) the moderators of the sites have no empathy for the others they encounter. There are two parts to this. It's quite true that many users have become hardened to wanting to help out new users who are a bit lost and are tired of repeatedly making no progress in improving initial question quality - because there are always new people looking to ask questions (with no clue how to do so effectively)...
and so, to a degree, they do lose empathy.
 
There are users on main who don't answer at all and spew out a steady stream of questions ranging from garbage to acceptable. I don't think this is something good
 
The other side of it, though, is that the sites are here for a very specific purpose and guarding the quality of the site comes above empathizing with someone who really just needs help. I see it all the time on IPS "This person really needs help, we shouldn't close their question even if it is off topic"... yeah... that's a great way to flush a site down the loo... you can't allow that if you want a functioning, healthy site.
 
@Catija main being full of grumpy and snarky answerers shouldn't have much to do with our moderators. If someone is being abusive, it should be handled the same way. I'm just skeptical that anyone will go "oh, I asked a question and now I see why I should handle it differently when I'm told to lmgtfy"
 
3:27 PM
So, there has to be a way to ride that line between being empathetic, helping users to improve their question or finding them somewhere they can get help, either elsewhere on the network, or somewhere else entirely.
 
yeah, but that's not a mod's job at all
 
And i thought the link will take me to the elections chat
 
try double clicking
 
@AndrasDeak But there's a confusion with many people between "moderators" and "Moderators"... we give every user "moderation tools"... and so, the "Moderators" (the 25 users with diamonds on this site) blend with the "moderators"... any user with... say... 3K rep.
 
I tried to comment but my comment was too long ... Looks like the chatroom is limited in the discusson capabilities.
 
3:29 PM
press enter every once in a while
 
I am assuming the majority of stackoverflow users are on the asking side of things.
To understand the needs of such people i think it's better to have such needs yourself every once in a while.
 
@WolfgangFahl You can always post multiple messages. Or, you can hit shift-enter to get around the length restrictions, though, you should try to keep chat messages relatively short if you can.
 
multi-line messages can be much longer, and you can post your thoughts into multiple messages
 
Flagging via users is good but you need someone above them to Moderate as well
 
@WolfgangFahl But the work of moderators is not to meet the needs of new users. The work of moderators is to handle the tasks that the regular users can not handle.
3
 
3:30 PM
^
 
Assessing questions and answers otherwise might end up in frustration.
My personal experience was around
https://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/354938/my-question-got-deleted-by-a-moderator-how-can-i-find-out-the-reason
and the meta discussion got far more interest than the issue which is still unsolved until
today see https://stackoverflow.com/questions/45914761/eclipselink-hangs-on-bind.
 
I agree that Mods are to deal with what regular users cant do however it is likely that regular or new users definition is a grey area causing asking and keeping site clean issues
 
My personal need is very often to find an answer to a problem.
A moderator who is supporting this need is in my opion better than one who might not value the need for an answer high
compared for the need to follow some of the stackoverflow rules.
 
@WolfgangFahl moderators don't deal with question topicality anyways
they process flags the community cant
 
bye from here
 
3:33 PM
@WolfgangFahl So what, in particular, would you expect an "asking" mod to do different from an "answering" mod?
As in concrete moderator actions.
 
@WolfgangFahl And you seemed to have gotten a very comprehensive response from Cody Gray about your question with good advice for moving forward. I'm not seeing how his failure to ask many questions (he's asked 12) is a sign that he can't help you with yours.
 
Asking a proper question is the end of a long process of trying to solve the problem yourself, consulting external sources, searching on SO and then isolating it in a mcve. This usually solves the problem so experienced programmers don't end up asking much
 
When I looked at the list of candidates for the election I had the idea/feeling that the average moderator candidate has a higher answer/question ratio than an average SO user. Are there any statistics available on the answer/question ratio of users on stackoverflow. May be even correlated to the reputation?

I believe the empathy of a moderator might be higher if she has a more "normal" answer/question ratio than if this ratio is very extreme.
3
 
@WolfgangFahl What is the specific empathy towards question askers going to effect in a moderator?
 
Something positive i hope.
I've got to go - thanks for the discussion.
 
3:46 PM
No I mean specifically
 
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