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1:27 AM
Uh.. @VonC ye better work harder, there are a few more deletes piled up... :\
Ping me if you feel that any of them might need to be saved for the future, in which case, let's undelete and trim the post.
 
 
2 hours later…
3:06 AM
should be renamed to for consistency
 
3:16 AM
Should be on it's way...
 
Rob
@Machavity Done
 
4:05 AM
@BhargavRao What??? No! I worked for those! And they are on topic! How about this: stop deleting my stuff, please :)
 
Serial delete vote :p
Just practicing on how to do ModAbuse ...
 
stackoverflow.com/a/14589950/6309: 100% on topic. The fact that you are not familiar with that tool used by programmers does not justify a deletion
 
Ah, k. I'll undelete that
 
stackoverflow.com/a/22960130/6309: ClearCase! 100% on topic
stackoverflow.com/a/26072478/6309: seriously? Maven! On topic.
 
> What will be the best hardware requirement? IBM recommend 16 GB and quad core processor. Is this sufficient for 200 users ?
 
4:10 AM
I do work hard on those. Every day. (And I do mean every single day: meta.stackexchange.com/q/122976/6309)
 
@VonC (unrelated, perhaps I'm the only mod who's shared that post a lot in the mod room... now there's just 2 of ya left, after Bill messed up)
 
My job is "IT support": if you start looking at all my answer to vet carefully if those questions are too broad or not, I won't be happy: I am here to answer those questions.
 
Uh, @VonC, I guess there's some misunderstanding. We're not specifically deleting your posts.
We're just going by the tag.
 
I am sure you going by the tag, it just happen to be my tag (again, stackoverflow.com/tags/clearcase/topusers: I am the only one there)
 
Rob
@VonC This one to me seems like a good fit for super user/server fault?
 
4:14 AM
@Rob I have always (for the past 10 years) been answering questions at the border of server fault or even Super Users: I had to argue for the first 4 years that Git was part of Stack Overflow. Please leave my answer where they are.
 
Rob
Well, I only ask because your answer addresses server configuration issues: Disk space, Running as admin, firewall setup, user permissions and finally recommending patching the server OS. That very much seems like server administration
Anyway, I'm not moving the question, just asking your opinion here
 
@Rob my opinion is: if I ever take the time (as I do everyday) to answer a question on Stack Overflow is because I believe it will benefit Stack Overflow users. (and yes, by "moving" I meant "removing" ; )
 
@VonC this one is clearly off-topic. I can argue that the first two weren't, undeleted those two, but this is a tool req. See this part -> "I'm trying to find out if IBM or anyone else maintains a repository with these jars installed that I can add to my build.". If you can edit the post and make it on-topic, then I will certainly undelete that... (checking the 3rd one now)
 
@BhargavRao I have no problem with tag being renamed, or question being closed/locked. But deleted? I do object.
 
Yes, certainly. As I mentioned earlier, I'd never like to lose a good answer, just because the post is bad.
 
4:23 AM
@BhargavRao EXcellent :) My answers usually are good. Please don't delete them.
 
Which is why I retagged the posts which had 500+ views in the past 5 years, and left them closed (not deleted).
The first 2 which you linked were acceptable, a small edit would be fine to make them proper. But I'm not soo sure about the 3rd and 4th.
 
I am editing them
 
Perfect, lemme know once you're done.
 
@BhargavRao done. If you think they should still be closed, I have no problem. But please: do. not. delete. my. stuff :)
 
Lemme have a look ... :\
4th is way better now (undeleted), but still not convinced with 3rd. I'll ask another moderator to take a look.
4th can be reopened as well.
 
4:33 AM
@BhargavRao Again: I don't have a problem with a question being closed and locked. But please, consider not deleting those answers. I promise you, they do not harm the site.
 
... just gimme some more time, I've poked another mod to look into it. (Just the 3rd one, the others were fine after your edits).
 
@BhargavRao Believe me, my messages here are not about the 3rd question ;) I have been working too hard on those tags (version control in general) for the past ten years to not challenge every deletion.
(not close or lock, just deletion, especially of answer upvoted, or worse accepted)
 
Yep, we all know your work in [git].
The tag is kinda staying on SO because of you chat.meta.stackexchange.com/transcript/89?m=6637477#6637477
 
@BhargavRao Believe me, that work was not obvious: git and github were had multiple area 51 external site proposal, as well as version control. All those tags are still here because I made them on topic (which is natural for me working withing dev teams and supporting dev teams careers.stackoverflow.com/vonc)
 
But the issue is, when cleaning up a tag, we usually delete the off topic posts and leave the proper ones. That was what Shog had told us at the start. I'm one mod who has strayed away from that advice and kept off-topic posts active when they've been useful to people in general...
 
4:40 AM
That being said, Iwould respect a close off-topic. But would challenge a deletion. Hence my presence here this morning.
 
I do understand your point.
 
Always do what Shog tells you :) Except when it comes to delete my answers (upvoted/accepted): I do not come here occasionally for some point, but to genuinely help.
 
My only issue with that single post is that, it's related to a 2014 patch, which might not be useful to others.
 
Joel Spolsky said it in the first 2008 podcasts: even if they (the answers) can help one person, that is enough.
 
And hey, don't limit your presence to just today morning, we do need your advice in many of the 450 tags left to be burned ...
 
4:42 AM
(and yes, I was listening to those podcasts back then. I have the beta badge)
Most of those tags make sense (to be burned), I'll have a deeper look.
 
@VonC another mod told me that it's always better to keep expert answers, so undeleted it. :)
Thanks for taking a look at those 450 posts. The backlog is huge, the work is heavy. We need more good eyes for sure.
There was 650 open posts at the start, now it's reduced to 450.
 
@BhargavRao Thank you so much (to you and "another mod" ;) ). Again, I don't object closing a question to signal it has been moderated and deemed not 100% a good fit. But deleted? As I said yesterday, a bit harsh :)
(for answers upvoted/accepted)
 
We're on the same side, but we have different views regarding what exactly is useful ... which was the reason for this healthy debate.
 
Anyway, thank you for your work as moderator. My perspective differs in that my job is more on the "answer" side.
 
As a moderator, I've been staying away from judging posts based on my knowledge of the technology (even in those areas which I am aware of) but rather it's looks, the views, the age, the on-topic-ness of it.
And thank you for helping cleanup those posts!
 
4:53 AM
Sure: ping me if you think I can edit others where my answers could be deleted. I mainly aim to avoid deletion, not moderation.
 
I get it that the accepted answer does inform that the OP found it useful, but if it is just useful to that one person and no one, then do we keep it on the site? ... (that's my thought when looking at a post and deciding whether to delete or not).
 
That is why I mentioned the original thought of the site co-founder, as I understood them 10 years ago.
 
Hey, you should help us in general, not just posts which you've answered... >:)
 
Look at my daily activity: I barely have time to answer. That is why I never applied to a moderator position.
 
I stopped answering completely :p
But yeah, you're in tags where there are almost no other users, so you can't
(and we won't let you stop answering)
 
4:57 AM
Which I respect: moderation is very important. I try to bring long lasting value to the site in my own way, with those answers.
 
Yep, we all do our small duties to keep our site valuable.
Coolio, I gotta run to do some errands. Thanks for droppin by. (and if you ever feel bored there are 7 posts related to git which are awaiting burnination. Do poke em and see if they're indeed bad and need to be burned)
 
 
12 hours later…
4:48 PM
Quick note, @Bhargav: I see a lot of folks going after these "what's the canonical download for [tool|library]" posts as resource-requests. I think that's kinda short-sighted; as long as they don't degrade into "ok, screw canonical, just give me a link to a shady host where I can download a malware-clogged zip file" they're unquestionably useful.
3
Remember, these were originally problematic because folks would clog the answers with competing recommendations without any clear way to suss out which ones were legit. That's absolutely not the case for "where did [Apple] publish [some lib]?"
 
I've asked them to follow the advice here meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/341987/… while editing.
That's true. This post, after editing, became a proper post stackoverflow.com/posts/26066050/revisions. However, it needs someone with the domain knowledge to do those edits...
 
@BhargavRao Even so, in the original revision... The problematic aspect there was "anyone else". That's where you start down the road to Mega links and such. If IBM has a download page, we can link to it; that's not the end of the world.
Arguably we're better equipped to maintain stuff like that than many other forums, so might as well take advantage of it.
 
Hmm, so the advice is to edit and cleanse them, and not close them, right?
@Machavity and @rene, some advice to be kept in mind while closing. ^^
(need to run for a meeting, I'll be back in 1:30mins)
 
Will keep that in mind. Been trying not to close the ones talking about programming tools, but double as server and software configs. [ibm] is probably the most convoluted burn I think we've ever done
 
5:16 PM
@BhargavRao noted
 
5:59 PM
@Shog9 I'm happy to do what's desired here. I agree such answers are useful, if there's one true location for such downloads. I agree that under current direction, the questions shouldn't be deleted (I'm adverse to deleting useful tings). I also agree that where we run into significant problems with questions is when it's an open-ended request for us to identify a resource that fits some requirements (i.e. that doesn't have a single answer, but is largely a matter of opinion).
However, if we want to leave them open as on-topic questions, then the wording in both the on-topic page and the close/flag dialog need to be adjusted to reflect that. Currently, those make clear, blanket statements that questions "asking us to … find … a … off-site resource are off-topic". While it might be useful for us to use a different criteria for this burnination, without changing those pieces of text, our adopting something else for this burnination is of only very minor benefit.
 
@Makyen would "identify" be more clear than "find"?
Feel free to make a meta post.
The reason given - "attract opinionated answers and spam" - certainly doesn't apply here.
 
@Shog9 Using "identify" would improve it, but I'd suggest that the wording be adjusted a bit more than that. If we were just starting out with the close reason/OT page, then it'd be reasonable to have just that different wording and use Meta-lore, accumulated over time, to clarify what's desired. As it is, we're looking to change how people interpret that off-topic reason. In such cases, it's better to have the change be a bit more extensive, so that people notice, and, maybe, think.
 
@Makyen I kinda feel like this is a bit of a niche problem right now, but perhaps you're right.
 
6:31 PM
@Machavity perhaps extend the burn by another week before we bring down the axe?
[Apple] went on for 2 months, before we nuked the tag...
 
@BhargavRao Yeah. We're making good progress but a bulk delete at this point might be counter-productive
 
Cool. I guess it's better to do cleanup until the tag is clean, and then decide to remove the tag, rather than to set aside 1 week.
Nearly 750 posts have been handled i.stack.imgur.com/vCjZY.png (in 4 days)
 
7:06 PM
@Shog9 Thanks for clarifying; that stance is totally opposite the standard I have been applying to questions under the resource request phrasing
Maybe the Help Center and close modal dialog could be updated to reflect requests for official doc/library locations are OK?
 
...how many of those are there?
I always kinda felt like they were so niche it didn't much matter
 
@Shog9 Anecdotally, not many
99% are of the "Please suggest me" variety
 
@Shog9 Not a ton, since they tend to be popular and easy to find, but since we may have gone around closing a few of them... don't know if they got delete votes gathered on them
 
7:23 PM
yeah... that's kinda been my impression
like... For any given tech, you only really need like one of these
And you only need that if the provider makes it uncommonly hard to find for some reason
(which is sadly more common than it needs to be, but whatever)
 
8:08 PM
8340 questions in that search, but to me it seems that most are legit, probably the problem start when we start to dig in old stuff (burnation)
 
9:00 PM
@BhargavRao I agree that extending it for additional time would be beneficial. Personally, almost all of my CV in the last week have gone to the cv-pls queue, rather than burnination. If it's official that there's going to be additional time, then it'd be nice to have a mention of that on the IBM tag burnination meta. Just a comment, similar to the 1 week mention, would, IMO, be reasonable. I'll also update the pinned notice in SOCVR.
However, prior to updating the SOCVR notice, I'd like to confirmed if we're extending for a specified time-period (e.g. 1 week), or for an unspecified time (where I'd just not mention a time-frame in SOCVR).
 
Sure, I'll check it out once in the evening and then update.
I'll ping you, if I do.
 
Thanks, sounds good.
 

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