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04:00 - 16:0016:00 - 23:00

4:00 PM
they would never just name it something completely nondescriptive
absolutely not
 
also they are like "why do we need to pass the size to the function" idk, because you don't know about sizeof?
 
it's 2021 why are they still teaching C++ first?
 
my school is transitioning away from c++ first in favor of python
 
everyone gets a hard on for python here
 
4:04 PM
"while (arr <= arr + size -1)" is a big one
the condition will never be true and that's gonna swap all your memory
lol that's kinda funny
I wonder if students execute this on their machines
 
wait lmao
i didn't even read the code
 
it's not an infinite loop if thats what you are saying
 
@DaveS that's how I learned and I approve
python firsts are lazy and weak
 
@RaymondArteaga I think C++ is a little too steep of a learning curve for some people
 
arr <= arr + size will always be true, it's a useless condition
 
4:07 PM
that's the goal smarticles
 
may not be an infinite loop cause of the other conditions
 
after that you can learn all kinds of prac
 
@DaveS yeah wait u right
i think the only real condition that matters is p != arr
 
well i think it is better to teach something like python first. that way they get more coherent error messages and are able to focus on the fundamentals of programming logic. then, after they have a solid grasp on that, they can learn something like C++ where they have to understand pointers and such
 
@JBis the goal of that function seems to insist on creating memory unsafety tbh
also Rust is the best new language to start learning, sry python
 
4:09 PM
@JBis nah because you might have an odd/even size that skips that condition
 
@FĂ©lixAdriyelGagnon-Grenier def not
 
oh yes
I'll fite you irl
 
all you need is p > arr
 
rust is wayyyy over complicated for first language and you don't understand why until you've used cpp
 
they also assign the temp variable after they've clobbered the content so you lose the swap
 
4:10 PM
?
it totally not "more" complicated than c++
 
go might not be a bad first language tbh
I learned Java first
 
@Smarticles101 i second this
 
it should be dart
 
but C# could also be good
 
so everyone can do flutter
I learned java first
 
4:11 PM
also it has the best, and I mean this, the best documentation I've ever seen to start a language
 
the real nice thing about cpp is it produces simple assembly
go's assembly is impossible to follow, rust is a bit better but still bad
 
the Rust book > literally any other language documentation
 
ha
 
4:13 PM
so yeah, my "going out to buy weed" plan was postponed, I've invited the sister to come along but she's on the phone
 
Rust is annoying to start trying to program in
it's like bitch stop whining about memory
 
I have a wildly different experience
 
Something bugs me about not having explicit types for a first language (e.g. python)
 
C++ is still fine for teach core CS concepts
 
It's quite literally the first language I've started that made me feel more intelligent, instead of extremely dumb.
 
4:14 PM
but yeah idk if it's as applicable in modern times
I'm not saying rust is bad
I'm saying it's annoying
I don't want to follow the rules
 
it's all good, I didn't think that, though thanks for clarifying :)
I'm just going all "rust evangelist" whenever I can :)
aight, going out to the store prise deux o/
 
@JBis that's a good point. implicit typing teaches some bad practices and then trying to teach people explicit types ends up with them being confused. something typed, but with more forgiving error messages than C++ would be great
 
dumb answer but what about typescript?
 
xD
 
4:16 PM
I learned C first and thought that was the best
 
What about Kotlin?
 
I tried tutoring an Android class a few semesters ago. For many students it was their first time using Java and a strongly typed language. Most of the students came from a python background. The amount of times I had to explain what data types were was a nightmare
I'm still not super familiar with Kotlin
 
in JavaScript, 15 hours ago, by JBis
it is shocking how far people can get in programming without knowing what the fuck they are doing
 
Literally
 
@Smarticles101 me neither, but from what i've heard, it's Java but not dumb
 
4:20 PM
posted on September 16, 2021 by Android Developers

Posted by Maru Ahues Bouza, Director Android Developer Relations In our previous blog post in this series, we defined app excellence as “creating an app that provides consistent, effortless, and seamless app user experiences. It is high performing and provides a great experience, no matter the device being used.” Let’s focus on the concept of app performance — what are

 
yeah I think you should probably teach java before something like scala or kotlin
but i unno
 
Sometimes I wish I could go back and see how I was when I first started learning programming. I remember I spent a lot of time on Codeacademy, and then at some point freshman year of high school I seemed to get the hang of it
 
I think C -> Java -> C++ -> something functional, makes the most sense
 
I learned AppleScript first
 
I wish I could go back and pick out what I did that helped me so I knew how to better help others
AppleScript? lol
 
4:22 PM
c teaches basic concepts and pointers, java teaches OOP, and C++ combines the two
that's how I learned it at least, and thought it was good
 
the C class was pretty cool, we programmed robots to do shit
these lego robots
 
coooooool
 
the only real issues i have with C and C++ is how unforgiving they are. the error messages are not very helpful, especially for new people. and it's a bit easier to make mistakes because of that
 
yeah c++ should be later imo
c is easy af imo
just don't ask your students for the impossible and you're fine
 
4:25 PM
that's fair
 
i also don't like that c/cpp doesn't catch errors. "undefined behavior" is almost never caught.
 
i've never done a lot with c
 
@ballBreaker c gets in your way more then cpp
 
maybe paired with a good ide it would be ok. something like IDEA's CLion might catch errors well
 
I liked the robot stuff, it was a sick practical application of C
TBF though it might have been a toned-down version of C
I think it was called ROBOTC
and had some of the more nasty shit taken out
 
4:27 PM
robotc
 
I think people have disagreed with me about this here before, but I also don't like that they don't focus on quality in class.
 
its too hard to mark
so I don't blame them at all
 
the robotics club at my high school used robotc
 
I think good code practices and habits are important to build in intro courses, more important then just learning a language
 
@JBis I think they should focus on it a little less early on, and a bit more later
no one is going to write good code from the start
 
4:28 PM
doesn't matter what language you use or carrer you go into (except game dev ;) ), readability is important
 
@Smarticles101 haha nice
 
@ballBreaker yeah i never used it, but from my understanding it is similar to arduino's version of C. toned down and a bit easier to work with
 
they gotta teach you the concepts before you can understand what quality is and why it's important
 
i think they can do at the same time
 
4:30 PM
you gotta learn your ABCs before you're graded on sentence composition
 
@Smarticles101 yeah exactly, spot on
 
that's a great way of putting it dave
 
@JBis yeah but imagine marking 100+ students assignments for quality instead of results
you'd want to kill yourself after the second assignment
 
the most helpful thing SO has ever done for me was when i asked a question in the JS chat, instead of answering it they shat on my code 15 min
@ballBreaker i support it
 
tbf all anyone does on the internet in this context is shit on your code
 
4:31 PM
you support suicide?
2
remember that most people marking these assignments are TA's and therefore are students themselves
 
@DaveS my first post on stackoverflow gave me trauma and has since been deleted
 
lol
 
lol "we can't grade code quality because we don't know how to write quality code ourselves"
 
no I mean imagine marking 100 students assignments for quality while also going through school yourself
instead of just running it through unit tests and shit
it's just unreasonable
 
probably accurate considering it took my TA about 15 min to realize 0x60 - 0x50 is 16 and not 10, i take it back it took me 15 min they never figured it out
 
4:33 PM
i've noticed that sometimes the professors seem to have weird opinions on code. especially when they don't have much actual job experience before becoming a professor
 
also found that to be true
 
yeah definitely
 
most of my CS teachers had never held a professional programming job
 
@ballBreaker how do they grade essays?
 
most of my professors judged people who didnt use vim like we were in the 70s or some shit
 
4:34 PM
you ever notice how batshit insane all english teachers are?
 
@JBis they run them through a plagiarizing software and then probably skim it lol
also english majors don't have class
they just sit around and do nothing all day
so time means less to them
 
yeah fuck english majors
 
when I took the Android class I tried to TA for later, at some point one student on my team mentioned making a dark mode theme for the app and asked the teacher about it. The teacher said we should use the phone camera to enable the theme if it is dark in the room lol
 
lmao
why create a dark theme when you can use your flashlight to see your backlit phone in the dark
 
needless to say I tried to be pretty hands off in that project
 
4:36 PM
lol
@DaveS whats your opinion on using namespace std
 
also by the way, your code quality will most likely be graded, but for me it happened in 3rd and 4th year when the class sizes decreased 10-fold
 
frankly I don't give a shit
2
 
Dave has the right attitude
 
intro code classes nobody cares about, because who cares about people that might fail and drop out
not me
that's for sure
 
idk i think students use it and then don't understand what it does
 
4:39 PM
correction of my previous statement about being hands off. I checked git and I actually wrote the most code for that project. But the design decisions were mostly that of my teammates
 
@JBis personally I prefer to be more specific and use namespace aids or namespace herpes
 
@JBis students don't need to care about what it does until they use more than 1 namespace
 
@ballBreaker bah dum tss
 
hopefully by that point they can figure it out
 
the one thing that i will give tremendous credit to, a teacher created the entire autograder system used here which runs student code on docker against professor created test cases. It's surprisingly well built and thought out.
 
4:41 PM
I never used namespace std until I got points taken off my first year by some absolute retard of a TA
 
i think when learning it's important to be as explicit as possible
 
yeah that's why I always showed up naked to my classes
3
 
my favorite way to learn is have my code not graded by teachers. rather it's me sitting at my computer, faced with a problem, bashing my head into the table, finding the problem, realizing i'm an idiot, and then moving onto the next issue
 
yeah same
 
if there isn't blood on the table, your aren't doing it right
 
4:46 PM
my favourite project was not realizing that a massive database project was suppsoed to be a group project of 3 people and instead I did the whole thing by myself in 12 hours
and blew the persons mind the next day when I showed up alone
lol
but more in a "SMH" kind of way
was impressed... but more with my stupidity
 
enough rant for the day, cya o/
 
i had a project i once worked on at a company where i was redesigning the system for biometric hand scanners and ended up losing a month or two worth of access logs. but when someone asked about that data it was my last day. plus i was the intern and i wasn't really supposed to have that access anyways
@JBis cya o/
that's the last time i deleted a database
 
lmao nice
I deleted a prod database at my first job
for a factory that lost $100k+ per 10 minutes of lost productivity
was a fun day
@Smarticles101 were you able to restore it, or did you just walk away like nothing happened lmao
 
i don't even know if they use the software i created. because the new software couldn't run concurrently with the old software, the access logs could only be fetched from the hand scanners once and no one gave me a hand scanner or two to test with. i was literally developing the new software while people used the hand scanners
@ballBreaker nope, no back up or anything lmao
one of the higher ups heard about it and sent out an email to some people. at some point someone CC'd me in the email thread. the main deal was people wondering why I had this access in the first place
apparently most of the security department was not aware I was working on this
 
lmfao that's hilarious
I ended up restoring mine from transaction logs before anyone found out
don't think my boss ever found out tbh, his daughter knew though
but I think she maybe had a crush on me so didn't rat me out
or maybe it was just pity
 
4:55 PM
LOL
 
@Smarticles101 lmao so did you never get into any kind of trouble or anything?
gotta love it
 
every now and then i contemplate messaging my old boss and asking how that whole thing played out in the end
 
hahahaha
"also can I get a reference? thanks"
 
nope. i felt pretty bad about it, but everyone on my team was understanding, and my boss just kind of said "mistakes happen, and no one really gave you direction on what to do anyways"
like i didn't know how important that information was until someone asked
i was literally given free reign with only an sdk and documentation
 
lmao makes sense, yeah sounds more like their fault than yours
 
5:00 PM
that was the first and only time i've made a fullstack web application of that size by myself
i hope they at least did something with it
i wish i had that code lol
 
lol I feel that
I'm actually currently ripping proprietary code from my company
 
eyyyyy
 
and obfuscating it to keep for showcasing to future employers if needed
although my obfuscation consists of just removing all instances of my company name lmao
 
i think i have some old code i wrote somewhere at a past employer
 
hehe nice
 
5:04 PM
nothing very impressive
 
should I add javadoc comments to this
is the real question
 
ugh
lol
fine
 
honestly idek if i still have it. i'll have to go through all my flash drives
wait actually im pretty positive i wiped the drive it's on
unless it's on an old laptop back home
oh well
it wasn't anything useful
 
Any member of the google experts program around?
 
5:06 PM
@Smarticles101 yeah just save some stuff here and there and email it to yourself going forward
emails are the easiest for that shit imo
 
user image
8
picked up my diploma last week, ~1 year later due to corona
 
@ballBreaker smart. normally i'd throw it up in a private repo on my personal github, but for some reason never did
most of the code i write i put in private repos, but if i'm just doing small scale tinkering i usually don't
 
@MwBakker oh damn bro congrats!! looking handsome AF
@Smarticles101 that makes sense, I usually just email it because I know I'll always have my email address and it's easy to search for shit
 
i forwarded myself performance reviews to my email so i at least have those
 
haha niicee
 
5:13 PM
and apparently a set of code questions that someone wanted to test for interviews
the same guy used my solutions to prove that somtimes high schoolers with no degree write better code than some of the people with bachelor's degrees that they had interviewed
 
lmao nice
I can't say I ever had anything like that
the closest was that my thesis supervisor in 4th year told me
"bB, you are by far, in the past 30 years of being a thesis supervisor - the worst student I've ever had. Hands down. You're lazy and I can tell you don't give a single shit about this. This isn't just something you can do in one night and expect to pass. When you fail, and trust me, you will, I'll make sure of it, they will know that it's because you don't give a shit about this."
 
@ballBreaker thanks bro. I wore my garbageman outfit
 
so I ended up doing my thesis the night before it was due and got an 82%
so fuck that guy
his opinion was only worth 5% of the grade lol
 
@ballBreaker haha nice
 
5:18 PM
x'D
 
"When providing help to his teammates, or when Logan has a dependency on work his teammates are assigned, while it is at times quicker for Logan to simply complete the task, I would like to see him provide guidance without completing others tasks for them." - from my first performance review
good example of why i'm bad at teaching people to code
i have a tendency to just do it for them cause it's easier
 
I forgot for a second that your name wasn't smarticles in real life
@Smarticles101 lmao that's hilarious
I've rarely gotten praise from my bosses or superiors, if I do, it's usually "you have technical prowess as well as amazing communication skills, which is extremely rare for developers"
basically I get praised for not being autistic but thats about it
my last boss told me I was insubordinate and thats when I knew I wasn't going to last much longer
@Smarticles101 I def resonate with this although I don't usually end up doing it for them, that's a nice quality
 
my other performance review i have doesn't have any comments on improving, just that they would love to have me back again
sounds like a job offer, maybe i should hit up that boss
 
the extent of me teaching people in university was "why don't you get this? are you dumb? it's so easy"
 
different team from when i deleted a bunch of data
@ballBreaker that was for sure me in high school, i would just insult their code
i've at least gotten more patient with it since then
 
5:24 PM
haha nice yeah that's a good quality to improve on
now I just leave out the "are you dumb?" part
I think it's a big improvement
 
yeah haha
i still can't really do it for very long though
if i have to explain something more than twice i lose my mind
 
hahah yeah
I just have a disconnect with learning, I found that things just always came really easily to me and I didn't always know why.. so when trying to explain it to people I was like, damn I barely know how I even know this, how could I explain it to you
that's probably why I also forget everything I learn if given enough time
 
i relate so much lol
 
adhd bros
 
i somewhat relate to that xD
 
5:33 PM
adhd family
 
<3
 
i've realized a lot of my good friends have adhd
i think i've subconsciously done that
 
yeah a good amount of mine are the same
maybe 20%
 
Tim
6:06 PM
@MwBakker congrats :) is that the lady from Budapest with you ? Not what I expected but I don't judge
 
lmfao
 
6:22 PM
oo wee, only took me 1 hour to javadoc comment this bs
they better appreciate that I did that
I didn't even do that in my prod code
 
Time to go~~
 
cya womps!!
 
Cya tomorrow Everyone!!!
 
 
4 hours later…
10:15 PM
So I had a call with the recruiter that got me my current job.. he also was the recruiter that got my new CIO his job (and he's been working with him for the past 15 years getting him various roles). He asked me if I would be comfortable with him having an off-the-record discussion with the CIO to try to find a timeline out on when/if I might be laid off. Not really sure what to say so I told him I'd let him know tomorrow. Anyone have any suggestions?
 
Tim
why would he offer to do that
 
Never been in a position like this where I could potentially find out, seems like it wouldn't be too risky as I'm already in the process of looking and I have very little work and I know the cut is going to happen likely, but not sure when. But the idea of my boss knowing I'm going to quit kind of freaks me out lmao
I honestly am not sure, I've known this guy for about 3 years and meet up with him annually for a dinner and shit, and I think he's maybe trying to simultaneously look out for both me by making sure I have a timeline and confirmation (and maybe even my company will try to keep me), and also help the CIO by not having me leaving be a surprise to them
he's third party, and apparently "off the record" but I'm not sure
 
Tim
I would ignore him because recruiters are snakes and only in it for their own gain
 
this guy is actually the best one I've met for sure, but hmm
I mean what would he gain by me getting screwed here? then I wouldn't want to get a job through him lol
they aren't going to pay him for him telling them this information about me either
 
Tim
what would he gain by taking initiative helping you
 
10:21 PM
is there a possibility that he cares about the people he works with? the guy does take me out for a paid dinner every year despite me having a job and him getting nothing from it
 
Tim
he's playing the long con
 
haha but if he really is, then he'd get screwed here by screwing me
right?
like I'd know
 
Tim
yeah maybe he just wants to be friends, I don't know I just hate recruiters
 
yeah I feel that
most of them suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck
like 95%
 
Tim
and surely you don't need his help to find a new job right
 
10:24 PM
I mean he got me this one when I was struggling real hard 3 years ago
this time around seems easier so far but I've just been letting recruiters do all the work
I havent looked at a single job posting yet
 
Tim
but I wonder what your boss will think when this guy approaches him like "yo my dude off the record but are you gonna fire bb? and when"
 
so I don't necessarily need it
yeah that's definitely where the risk is
 
Tim
so by the sound of it you have something to lose and nothing to gain. But I am very pessimistic when it comes to this kind of stuff, so don't value my opinion too highly
 
I guess one of the determining factors for me is how important having a timeline for it would be
and if that is worth the risk
and honestly I'm fine in this in-limbo state because I'm still getting lots of applying done, and the stress is very minimal.. but if it happened like tomorrow I'd be like holy shit this is so soon
and I guess if I knew it was coming in 2 weeks vs 2 months, I would be able to really ramp up the search
I'd probably feel more comfortable if I was closer to having other opportunities, but at that point I'd basically be giving my 2 weeks notice anyways
 
Tim
oh yeah, 2 weeks notice
I speak from the perspective of mutual 6-8 weeks notice
 
10:30 PM
so I guess the something to gain would be the lack of surprise and ability to ramp up search now vs doing it when it's too late

VS

losing my job earlier
but I'm basically at the point where I know I need to leave.. so it's really just a timing thing, yeah not sure. @DaveS if you check this out in the next while let me know what you think
pathfinder time o/
 
Tim
yep ignore life and play games
 
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