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04:00 - 16:0016:00 - 20:00

4:00 PM
it's an argument against amazon
but i believe there are ways to track individuals productivity (especially for a factory) without destroying moral
 
Any of you use a yml editor ?
 
I use Intellij
 
@Graeme out of interest, how you find this?
 
I'm not fully sure how you would expect to track productivity more than factories already do
 
It's linked in your profile, I just wanted to freak you out
 
4:01 PM
@ballBreaker it's the standards
if your quotas are way too high then it's obv gonna bring moral down
 
Wasn't expecting to be able to go from chat-profile to website to resume :P
 
but if your quotas are reasonable then it'll make sure employees don't see their colleague's slacking off and getting paid the same amount
 
Tim
well of course your quotas will be too high, you want as much production as possible right?
 
I just hope you realise at some point, those "low skilled" individuals are human beings like you and deserve as much respect as you do, and that nor you nor any of your close family/friends get to experience that that life
 
honestly, working isn't a competition or a game, so if someone is upset that someone else makes the same amount of them, they're kind of a shitty person lol
 
4:03 PM
all i am saying is there needs to be accountability and using computers to do that isn't inherently bad
 
Mehdi - He's just a kid, he doesn't know what he's talking about yet :) Give him 10 years to be beaten down by the system and he'll say something different
 
Grr
@Graeme ah, thats what i thought
 
Tim
grrigore is not here
 
@Graeme right XD
 
lots of unskilled labourers give birth to skilled labourers, you can't really separate people like you're trying to do
 
4:05 PM
i never said unskilled labors are useless
 
not directly
 
it's supply and demand
 
but when you say you want to treat them like robots and monitor their performance through software and stop them from unionizing it really comes across as though thats what you think
 
i still believe in minimum wage, benefits, etc.
 
@JBis it is, you should learn about ML bias and so on... it's a big research field, here is an example if you feel like doing some reading propublica.org/article/…
 
4:06 PM
Skilled labors should be tracked also, it's just harder. I don't think computers could do it as well. And skilled labors are tracked, via their bosses.
 
Tim
I'm not tracked at all
 
@Mehdi im aware of ml bias
 
I can't think of a skilled job that can be accurately measured with automation
 
Yeah same, I'd quit if I was
 
@JBis another example would be risk assessment when asking for a bank loan etc twitter.com/dhh/status/1192540900393705474?lang=en
 
4:07 PM
@Graeme exactly
 
I quit my first job because of micromanagement
 
So what was your theory about peoples performance JBis?
@ballBreaker My boss here described management as salt. Add too much to your day to day and it ruins it, add too little and likewise ruined
 
@ballBreaker @Tim are you saying that you don't have a boss that reviews what you do?
 
Loved that analogy :)
 
yeah exactly jbis
 
Tim
4:09 PM
yes that's what I'm saying
 
he checks up on my work once a year in my annual review
 
Tim
I have like 10 people above me, but they don't care what I do, as long as the deadlines are met
 
yeah, so there is some sort of check
 
yeah but once a year is substantially different than all day every day
 
I check on the guy below me every day
 
4:09 PM
@Graeme this is perfect, i'm stealing it
 
same difference, computers don't care what workers do as long as their quota is met
 
@Mehdi IKR!
 
Tim
not same, I'm not severely punished if I don't meet a deadline
 
nobody likes to be micromanaged, but microtracking is the only way for a computer to track
 
computers can't accurately track
 
4:10 PM
but you can still set them to only fire based on weekly or monthly or yearly output
 
lmao
what a fucking dystopia
 
And short term targets will kill your business real fast
 
it's like the island but instead of going to the island you get fired
 
Running a team with short term targets gives you an unmaintainable base in 6 months
 
let me reiterate, i don't think how amazon is using computers is good. I am just saying using computers aren't bad.
 
4:12 PM
Have you ever worked in a factory or a low-skill job?
 
No
 
We're saying using computers are bad
 
You should try it sometime, it'll open your eyes
 
To what?
 
it's extremely difficult work
harder than skilled labour IMO
 
4:12 PM
its manual labor, sure
 
Tim
@JBis reality
 
@Tim :D
 
@JBis be honest, would you like your parents to monitor your internet usage?
 
@Mehdi my isp already does
 
just answer the question ;)
the subject is your parents
 
4:13 PM
as in amount? i wouldnt care
 
amount?
you wouldn't care them seeing the garbage you write or watch?
 
like 5gb, 10gb, 20gb instead of google.com, youtube.com
 
pretty sure there is a website missing in there
 
lol
 
whats your point
i dont work for my parents
 
4:16 PM
you wouldn't like them monitoring YOUR activity, why would you not mind monitoring other people
 
im talking about monitoring what you are paying them to do to make sure they are doing what they are supposed to
@Mehdi do you monitor how much you get paid?
what happens if you receive a paycheck for less than you are supposed to? do you say "oh well" and move on?
 
Tim
31 mins ago, by Tim
it's been proven that when people are being monitored their productivity actually decreases
 
@JBis I don't, I trust my employer to fulfill the terms of my contract
 
Tim
this is still true and invalidates everything you've said
 
@Mehdi you never check?
 
4:18 PM
yeah I think we're missing the point that micromanaging leads to lower productivity
as tim's point
 
@Tim i'd source you on that, because everyone is monitored some way or another
im not advocating micromanagement
 
Tim
the source is me, I have experience, you don't
 
lol
 
i don't think a computer needs to track how long it take you to tape a box
 
@Tim hahaha
 
4:19 PM
but that's micromanaging if you're using productivity measurements gathered by a computer to fire people
 
but it can track how many boxes you tape in a month
we are going around in circles
 
why does it matter JBis? why is it not enough to measure the throughput of the wghole unit?
why do you care about Bob or Nathalie?
 
I think at the end of the day, if you're using tools to track people and fire them, it will undoubtedly reduce morale for even the best of employees
 
@Mehdi because if you want 500 boxes a day and Bob does 500 boxes a day but Nathalie does 0 boxes a day, you output is 500 boxes which indicates no issue
 
trust me, Bob won't do 500 boxes
 
4:21 PM
maybe nathalie is bob's rock and without nathalie bob will stop doing 500 boxes a day
now you're down to 100 boxes per day without nathalie
 
and if Bob does it's alright, it means he doesn't mind
 
@ballBreaker well why am i paying a rock
 
if Bob complains, he works too much, you investigate and try to fix the problem
 
everyone complains they work too much and are paid too little
Bezos probably complains
 
bruh...
 
4:22 PM
you're starting to sound like boomers bro
bob just needs to pull himself up by the bootstraps and achieve the american dream by working even harder
 
well imo capitalism is human nature, and part of that is wanting more money
 
imo that's propaganda
 
@ballBreaker and if at the end he does not become rich, it's his own fault
 
@ballBreaker no, natallie needs to be fired
 
you know before firing someone, aka stopping their livelihood, there 10000 steps that could help
 
4:25 PM
maybe she just went through a miscarriage and needs some support
 
Tim
@JBis man what a teamplayer you are
 
23 mins ago, by Mehdi
I just hope you realise at some point, those "low skilled" individuals are human beings like you and deserve as much respect as you do, and that nor you nor any of your close family/friends get to experience that that life
22 mins ago, by Graeme
Mehdi - He's just a kid, he doesn't know what he's talking about yet :) Give him 10 years to be beaten down by the system and he'll say something different
I strongly believe the latter will happen sooner or later, we're just preparing you for it ;)
 
I FINALLY FIXED MY CIRCLE CI BUILD XD
Took me a whole day >.<
 
@Tim well i mean natallie's not pulling her weight making bob do everything.
@Mehdi i will say that my ideas have changed even in the short time i've been on this chat, but not due to experience
 
Tim
and next week bob is depressed and can't work as hard as he normally does and natalie picks up his slack
no wait, natalie was fired.
 
4:30 PM
natalie has consistently outputted few boxes for the last year and has no excuse
 
@JBis yeah honestly I think it will click for you eventually, I've noticed a nice positive change in your thinking over the past year or two
 
....anyway
 
@JBis this is good to know! I definitely noticed you became more moderate in your views with regards to many topics, more to come hopefully :)
 
ideally machines replace all factory workers and then all the furloughed employees are put on universal basic income for the rest of their lives
and then they can sit at home doing nothing and get paid
every american's dream future
lol
no one bit on that one eh
 
Tim
I was contemplating sharing the bookmarked convo I just created
sorry I should have paid more attention to what you were saying
 
4:37 PM
lmao
"Jbis application for management position"
 
damn I didn't know that he was voiced by david koechner but listening to it it makes total sense
 
uh oh
my charger isn't working and i only have 58%
 
well good thing apple's chargers are universal, you should have one kicking aroudn from a different device, right?
lol sory couldnt help it
you might be able to crimp the wire and jerryrig something to get you by until you get a new charger
 
i may have to rob an apple store...out of necessity
 
4:43 PM
Holy shit just through the chat today
Safe to say @JBis has never been a manager before
 
wrong, i was one for a little bit
 
No surprise it was only for a little bit
2
 
XD
 
damn, ontario just hit our covid record for daily cases
fun
 
congrats!
 
4:47 PM
hahaha thanks
my parents are vaccinated now so that's nice
 
Tim
@MarkO'Sullivan 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
 
@ballBreaker Psychology suggests people need to feel productive to be happy. Plus, fleshbags are cheaper than machines ;)
@ballBreaker Looking forward for stay at home order to show results - we're about to become worse than US :(
 
@Graeme just gotta pay out the UBI based on their video game achievements
yeah :\ easter data is going to hit us now
 
I have no idea how churches were considered essential in any way shape or form - loads of churches around me and they were packing people in
 
oh really? I had no idea they stayed open
the government bunged a lot of this up
so I'm not surprised
 
4:54 PM
I mean... churches tho...
The idea that God would want them to come together and put themselves and everyone else in danger rather than worship remotely is bonkers
 
I don't try to reason with religious people or try to understand them any more
 
Carl is way more religious than I thought
 
I think the bottom line is that they were scared and their fallback when scared is to flee to God so it's likely mostly that
@Graeme well I think he potentially invented christianity so it makes sense
 
Are people in heaven supposed to go to church while there?
 
haha that's something I never thought about
 
4:57 PM
like do you have to do your weekly prayers or you fall down to hell? like rent for heaven?
 
is it like that in judaism?
 
we have no heaven or hell in judaism
nobody died for sins. We just throw bread into the water every year and we're good.
 
oh I thought there was
interesting
I knew the second part of your statement
 
pretty sure there is a heaven concept in Judaism as in all the Abrahamic religions
 
yeah that's what I thought mehdi
 
5:00 PM
@Mehdi there is an afterlife concept but its not for good or bad people, its for everyone
if you want to call it heaven you can, but there isn't any requirements to get it
 
@JBis even hitler?
 
he wasn't jewish
 
so it's not for everyone?
that's even weirder tbh if true
there's a jewish exclusive afterlife
lol
 
not too sure actually
 
fair enough, it sounds like it's pretty ambiguous
 
5:03 PM
i think we are more focused on the here and now
 
the only thing I know about jewish afterlife is that there are rules to being buried in a jewish cemetery
 
also no tattoos
because we believe we rent bodies and after to give it back to god when we die and if you damage it your a bit of a dick
 
haha
apparently DMX died today
speaking on the topic
@JBis I don't like how religions have all these rules
some of them seem so antiquated too
like the pork one especially
 
yeah i agree
traditions are the issue, most religions have good core messages
 
I remember in world religions learning about the hundreds of rules of judaism and was glad I wasn't one, not that everyone follows it that strictly, seems more like an orthodox thing
and yeah I agree
Most of them have decent core-rules or 'golden' rules for living a good and moral life
 
5:06 PM
to sum it up, "just don't be a dick"
 
haha
yeah "dont be a dick, and support your local unions!"
lol jk jk
 
lol
 
i've posted this before but still relevant
> The books you think I wrote are way too thick.
Who needs a thousand metaphors to figure out you shouldn't be a dick?
> You shouldn't abstain from rape just because you think that I want you to.
You shouldn't rape because rape is a fucked up thing to do.
 
@Graeme honestly it's a mix between fear and entitlement 100%
 
Tim
5:10 PM
and god will protect them from the virus and in case he doesn't it was his plan for them to die
 
yeah some religious people don't believe in medicine because its avoiding gods plan
dumbest shit. Conveniently, god instructs them to rapidly reproduce.
 
Tim
I have no problem with it, as long as it doesn't affect others
 
I mean, benefit of the doubt, maybe there is a reason
Tim - Unfortunately putting yourself at higher risk effects everyone
 
there is certainly no logical reason
 
Tim
exactly. Respect others even if you don't agree with their ways. Except if they don't meet the weekly quota, no compassion for those suckers
 
5:13 PM
but there are definitely plenty of emotional ones
hahaha
I am currently barking like a sad dog to commemorate dmx
 
I mean, judge not lest thee be judged BB - Wait for people to defend themselves :P
 
@Tim :D
 
I'm not judging them, that's you
 
wait why can't we judge them
they judge us for not going to church 24/7
 
Always dangerous to say "they do" / "they are" JB
 
5:16 PM
You're right. God may strike me down. ;)
 
Not god, just easy for you to sound like a douche :D
 
I mean asking Carl to explain the reasoning of every catholic is a little presumptuous and dangerous as well
I know a devout christian that didn't go to church once through this mess despite them being open
 
sorry, maybe i misunderstood, thought we were talking specifically about very religious people doing non-covid safe stuff during coivd in the name of religion
 
Tim
well everyone is regilious to some extent in their own way
 
yeah mostly true
even athiests get religious af at times
 
5:20 PM
if you scare an atheist they may say "jesus!"
 
although maybe that word isn't correct
 
anyway im out. have a good weekend o/
 
Tim
you mean those that are like in the gray, don't acknowledge the existence of a higher power, but don't say it doesn't exist either
 
agnostic I think that's called
that's what I am actually
people hate it
they tell me to pick a side all the time
 
Tim
I'm something similar I guess. I don't believe in anything, but also I really hope I'm wrong
 
5:25 PM
haha yeah same here
I'm at the point where they are pretty much equally likely/unlikely possibilities so I decided I'll just choose whichever outcome makes me the happiest
which is that i'll probably die with no afterlife, but I hope I'm pleasantly surprised
 
Tim
yep
 
how to upset both sides at the same time lol
 
o/
 
Tim
I sometimes have like existential crisis when I consider the idea of nothingness after death
 
I just tell people on both sides to give me concrete proof of a God or lack of God and I'll change my mind
yeah same here tim
I imagine life going back to what it was like before being alive and then I get filled with panic
 
5:30 PM
@Tim billion of years passed before you were born, you would not keep track of the next trillion years anyway
 
I mean yeah in theory taseer, it shouldn't matter due to what you said, but that's not really realistic from a human point of view
at least to me
 
nice ill check this out in a bit, gotta get off this DMX train first
 
Just to add to the matter, I believe, one does not matter. It's their genes that matter. Vision it same like torch passing in Olympics
That torch / flame is your genes
 
yeah for sure
but my genes aren't my consciousness so that freaks me out still
the idea that my reality ceases to exist on death does fill me with some existential dread
It's probably better than the alternative though of believing in a conrete afterlife and then allowing yourself to waste your only life
 
5:36 PM
No one has an answer to topics like these, a religion tries to professes their 'solution'
 
Tim
it's better to really listen to it, the lyrics are fascinating
 
@Tim that's a beautiful stage
 
Tim
they put on amazing shows
 
ohhh I remember you sending this before
 
@ballBreaker :/ I didn't know.. I discovered DMX at 17 or so with this song youtube.com/watch?v=6CqXgs-7ico
 
5:40 PM
@ballBreaker I mean, let's say even if we got to live 'forever', the universe would eventually go out on us. Five ages of the Universe
 
haha classic tune mehdi
I think for me it was this one
I'm pretty sure it was from the movie Gone in 60 Seconds, or the first fast and furious that I first heard it
@Taseer yeah but you can't just logic your way out of emotional existential dread
if you can then that's pretty good for you, when I sit there and actively try to imagine absolute nothingness it scares tf outta me
I'm not necessarily scared to die, but I'm somewhat scared of being dead
 
Tim
same
 
There's no point in to live forever when everything else falls apart. I don't want to focus on the future, just deal with what I am presented with. I want to try to live my life to the fullest. That's how I made peace with it
 
agreed and that's why I don't think about it too often
but that doesn't mean I'm not gonna get freaked out when I think about it haha
 
is shitposting on r15 part of living one's life to the fullest?
 
5:50 PM
You ain't living if you ain't taking risks lol
 
yolo etc etc
 
BTW, I am graduated :D
 
ooooh nice congrats man!
 
congrats !!! :D and sorry to hear
 
Thanks
 
5:55 PM
from now on, work or starve... :/
 
hey now
he lives in pakistan not a third world country like the US
lol cheap shot
 
lol
 
what degree did you end up getting? comp sci?
 
Bachelor in Computer Science
 
nice man!
 
5:58 PM
The only reason I work is to get to afford a nice touring bike, and then I won't probably get good time to tour
 
lmao youtube algorithm knows me very well apparently
> A playlist for a 19th century villain scheming against his enemies
@Taseer haha the duality of being an adult
Work to pay for toys, left with no time to play with toys
 
@ballBreaker Why the guy sitting as if his girl cheated on him
 
I think he's just contemplating what nothingness will be like for his enemy who took his woman from him
 
@Taseer I'm stealing @WarrenFaith's joke for some time ago, but you could invest in a good Cutting Pliers instead
 
I think he means a touring motorbike
 
6:04 PM
I don't get the joke :/
 
mehdi is suggesting to steal a bike and pay for the pliers in stead of the bike
but he is misunderstanding you and you're confused because people don't use locks on their motorcycles
glad I could clear that up, that'll be a $50 mediation fee
2
 
hahaha
ah thought he meant a cross-bicycle :D
 
haha lol
 
haha I would have thought the same if I didn't have a friend obsessed with motorcycles
definitely understandable mixup
 
I always refer to a motorbike as bike, I am crazy
 
6:07 PM
it's okay you'll die young in a 'bike' crash and then the confusion will die with you
 
hahaha damn
 
I take my shit with me
Speaking of bike motorbike, they are stupidly expensive here
 
@Taseer haha until you die and then you poop it all out
 
XD
 
hehe
cars are reeally expensive there too you were saying right?
 
6:10 PM
Yeah
Like for a 250 cc bike, I would have to pay like 8-10K USD
 
oh wow
that's insane
 
And 1000 cc bikes cost 25-40K USD
At that price, it becomes almost a stupid decision to buy a bike just for the fun of it
So, most people just opt for a car
 
holy fuck, yeah that's ridiculous
 
People in government are extremely incompetent to try to introduce regulations
 
I can get a lexus for that price
 
6:12 PM
Even basic AF safety standards are looked over
 
@Mehdi you might like this
it's frickin awesome
AWESOME
 
I wish if there were 4 days a week workdays
 
yeah same
I can't wait until that happens in the next decade
At this point I'd be kind of surprised if the world doesn't head that direction
once boomers die out , conservatism will largely die with them I reckon
along with religion
some things to look forward to assuming we make it past climate change
 
@ballBreaker thanks! and hat moustache :D
 
hahaha yeah they all look pretty jokes in the video
the blonde guy in the blouse is super jokes
and the guy that looks like a member of the Beatles is great
 
 
1 hour later…
eli
7:26 PM
[ hi ]
 
Hola
 
04:00 - 16:0016:00 - 20:00

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