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22:00
Not much better, but Java can get pretty verbose, which sounds horrible to read when its conjumbled in with html.
I use ejs which is similar syntax to that but all the logic is not in the view file
also why the light mode?
Can't have dark, IDE is too old
Dart itself seems OK but it's just such a niche language choice, so basically everyone that wants to use Flutter also has to learn Dart. and Dart skills aren't really transferrable to anything else.
it's pre dark mode IDE
AKA the darkest age
ironically
it's really not hard to pick up
22:03
its actually very similar to Java
allowed_years is not determined in the view
looks similar
22:05
node this is only ejs there are other view langs
Weird thing though... I really like JSX even though I expected to hate it with it being a lot like those.
Apparently there is a code convention for JSP that I just found and this breaks basically everything in it
adult_price + student_price shouldnt really be added there
thats logic and it shouldnt be in the view. But I forgot to pass a total price so i just did it that way.
I think probably because even though its a bit of conjumbling, its easy to make small simple components.
JSX is fucking annoying
22:06
@DaveS yea but every language has its quirks
and even Java developers rely on a lot of third-party libs for stuff
well I've been doing it for about 5 days total across two projects and I haven't had any really frustrating learning curves
everything is super well documented and everything I need seems to exist
Haven't had the pledge of working with JSX before
how great is this?
Haha what's wrong with JSX? Its great for how flexible it is with nesting things.
22:08
and now that I've got a lot of the basics in memory, I'm moving quickly though this app build
and it's soooo smooth
knocks the socks off React Native that's for sure
so simple. And you can read it so easily.
Tim
Tim
@JBis separation is not a language feature
aside: how do you spell out the pronunciation of shortening "pleasure" to "pleadge" or plesh or whatever
the djjjjjjjjjjjsh sound
plezzsh
this is hard to type out when I don't know how to spell it and that's also what I'm trying to ask
22:09
I don't think its a word... lol
that's close
@Tim I wasn't sure if Java had something that prevented the seperation. Based off of twiz and bb's comments I assumed it did.
And if anything its a library feature in node not a language feature
ahah yeah it's definitely not I just like abbreviating things but maintaining the sound of it
oh by the way, you can also do XML directly in JSP as well
just as a fun side note
I think its that JSP and PHP kind of have that mess as a feature, where as other templating syntaxes have more of a pass in some parameters approach.
I forget basically everything I ever knew about JSP though.
Tim
Tim
I mean separation is a design choice
22:13
Good I hope it's memory dies in everybody and it ceases to exist for all of time
Whats you biggest problem with JS (only considering Node and considering typescript)?
Yea, I'm sure you COULD write some great JSP/PHP, its just that the languages don't encourage.
Typescript needs to stop yelling at me for incomprehensible nonsense. lol
IMO for many many project Node works great.
I have not used Java for web stuff so I don't really know but everything seems like a hassle in Java.
I feel like Java frameworks probably work better for sites that aren't SPAs.
Of course I have no idea about the dev-ops side of all that.
Serverless functions are pretty awesome...
@twiz Why?
22:20
@ballBreaker 😂😂😂
I guess I really haven't done much with static sites in a while, but the frameworks I've seen for node don't seem to be intended for huge scale static sites. I could be wrong, but that's just the impression I have.
we use Node for backend servers and React for front end single page web apps
interesting
For a small/simple project then Java is probably way more of a hassle
uh bleh react
22:22
server side rendering is stupid
fight me
I've tried many times and I just can't understand React.
it's not easy to understand but it's powerful once you do
@DaveS What you have against SEO? lol
SEO is just meta data
Or has google completely solved that problem at this point?
22:23
you can serve that statically in the headers without server side rendering
you just put your SEO in the headers of the bundle request
I'm not sure what you mean. It uses the text on the page as well.
Maybe because I haven't made large enough projects, but I haven't experienced any annoyances of using Node for web.
Not even a little
you can pre-render content for the search engines as well
That's what I'm talking about. What are you calling server-side rendering?
when each page is loaded and the HTML is generated by the server on demand as the user clicks
22:26
Just detect its a search engine and show them what you want
doesn't even need to be an exact match
like an oldschool PHP server that generates the HTML then serves it to the user
a React bundle will still render its own HTML when users use your website, but to solve the SEO issue you can deliver pre-rendered pages to the engines
@twiz seems to be the case with most things WRT Java
good for massive applications and bad for smaller ones
Ohhh, you mean pre-render as in store actual rendered HTML files on the server
Obviously not always true, but seems to be a common theme
yeah
22:28
Yea, as long as the site isn't particularly dynamic, that's probably ideal.
I'm just going to say this: Amazon is rendered server-side. :)
and I hate Amazon
it works fine but it's ugly
and slow
Yes, but I guarantee it isn't built that way because they are stupid.
I just assume it's because SEO is a really high priority
Tim
Tim
I chose google over amazon for backend hosting because amazon looks like it's stuck in the 90's
AWS is way too much hassle for one person to deal with. haha
actually twiz, they are slowly rebuilding it in angular
> Most part of amazon has been built using Amazon Webstore ( which is basically written in PHP on Zend Framework). But in the recent years they have started using angular JS along with some custom J2EE framework.
22:31
They have tons of widgets and banners they need to control from the server side probably
Otherwise I wouldn't understand why they don't do client side rendering
they didn't make a choice to use PHP
it's what they started with as a small book company
and they kept it up as they grew
@DaveS That's really interesting. Although I wonder if they're planning to go for a full SPA or just using that for the little dynamic things on each page. (filtering products and such)
yeah not sure
Aaah so legacy systems
yeah
most large corps are stuck in legacy
too much of the business relies on it to move
you have to migrate slowly over time
22:33
Yeah that's true... But Amazon is huge
With really good engineers etc...
and their store barely turns a profit, AWS is the huge profit driver
they probably can't afford the costs to refactor all at once
plus the potential lost sales for any disruptions of the store
Reverting back to our other conversation, I bet Amazon has some really pretty PHP code. haha
and they have to keep AWS running
Tim
Tim
@DaveS all my clients ever had the exact same issue
same
22:36
yeah it would make sense to develop the one generating the most revenue
Funny story, a lot of Apple's websites don't display correctly on small screens.
and maybe even to a point where it's irrelevant to keep the other business running :D
Jeff Besos will never give up market share willingly
he's about market share not profits
@twiz did you try upgrading to the iphone XIV? and see if it displays better :D
@Mehdi They can't shut down that business. It's their other business's biggest customer!
22:38
he'll take a loss to out compete and gain market share
@Mehdi well honestly some of them don't do so well on desktop either.
But seriously, I imagine running Amazon on AWS does help them a lot with learning how to improve AWS.
yeah they started AWS because they were running amazon already at such a large scale
gave them the infrastructure and knowledge to do it
and it cuts costs because they can charge for their excess capacity
@DaveS that's very interesting
22:41
I think there was that famous email from Bezos where he mandated that all backend stuff needed to interface through actual APIs, and that's how AWS was born
Before I start, does anyone want to start a fun side project with me. Its a game pretty simple. I estimate it will be ready for beta in a couple months. JS tho.
> In 2003 Black was running a website engineering team at Amazon. The company was growing fast and IT wasn’t keeping up. Black worked with Chris Pinkham, who he says is one of the best managers he’s ever worked with. Pinkham pushed Black to consider how Amazon’s infrastructure could more efficiently scale up. They explored how abstraction and decoupling the applications from the infrastructure could make it easier to manage.

“We realized there could be a lot of value in doing that, and a lot of value to others potentially outside of Amazon,” Black told Network World. “We could sell it (the
but VM's were around before AWS
who rented VM's by the hour with a robust API?
"as a service" is the key here, Jbis
22:44
Ok.... Time for me to do something productive. lol
before I was le bron
same
@DaveS cries in ESXi
@ballBreaker "Started from the bottom, now we're here" :D
22:46
@AaronHall - thanks for your thoughtful answer. I would like to take you up on your offer to meet face-to-face at our NYC office. My team will reach out to you by email to arrange a meeting. I look forward to engaging in a deeper discussion with you. — Pchandrasekar ♦ 7 hours ago
I started from a wee egg and now I'm a big boy
Do you think they're bringing him in to personally fire him
that would be brutal XD
@JBis if the guy is sincere, that's nice, hopefully we get an update :D
if he isn't he'll be destroyed in meta
lmao
dude just got absolutely crushed in meta
true, that's a big risk :D
22:49
I think they stopped caring about meta around 3 years ago
they've considered nuking it a few times
Along with data points mentioned in today's post, we also keep a close eye on question quality. The blog below was our most recent look at the topic, and we feel good about the direction things are heading. This post also includes a link for a deeper dive into how we define "question quality." stackoverflow.blog/2019/11/12/…Pchandrasekar ♦ yesterday
In fact, shog was an opponent to them nuking it
not gonna lie, their management is prepared :D
@DaveS if you haven't seen this before: api-university.com/blog/the-api-mandate
damn I just found a sick burn in an IBM forum from 2003
no response afterwards
I assume the person got full 3rd degree burns and died
22:54
@trevor-e I hadn't nice, I agree
@ballBreaker link? XD
I might be slightly exagerating on how bad it is
hahaha he probably read and thought: I show them the real thing and they mock me?meeh, not even gonna try respond XD
they just called them "big nerd" XD
basically hahaha
I love that my deployment descriptor doesn't have an extensions tab, and I also don't have that XMI or XML file associated with my deployed web app
basically in other words, get fukt
23:00
does it hurt having your balls broken by legacy developers?
Yeah I specifically like when the past comes to haunt me
It's like having ghosts in my house, but it's in my code
Sometimes I even scream I get so scared
and my balls hurt constantly, it's weird
oh yes
I did it
\o/
The goofs set up the keepgenerated parameter but didn't specify a scratchdir so they weren't being saved ANYWHERE
they did it the worst way possible out of the possible choices, nice
On that note I'm going to slink out of here and end my day on a high
Ciao for nao
23:26
@ballBreaker which type?
buddam tsss
Tim
Tim
23:41
@Mehdi L i e s
They don't give a shit. They will say whatever they have to to give what remains of the content creators a false sense of hope and squeeze them for anything they are still willing to give
damn, that hurts XD

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