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18:15
^
I don't want to learn a new language
crossing my fingers that Swift becomes the cross-platform language of the future
lol you have to joking
apple wouldn't allow
they fork it or something
o_0 Swift is open source already
yes and if android adopted it I guaruantee apple would create their own version
Wasn't it since it's inception?
18:19
own version of what?
@trevor-e okay fine use an old version. Look at bash on macOS
old version of swift
I believe python also is an old version
the trick is in the api detials
which if they don't match you haven't accopmlished much
that makes zero sense lol
@trevor-e I'm stating facts
the more people that know Swift, the better for Apple
what makes zero sense
18:21
why Apple would fork an older version of Swift if Android adopted it
@trevor-e because historically it is what they have done
I mean not always
Accepted answer. yay
Apple has not forked Python or Bash
so they have not historically done that
Is it conspiracy theory time already?
@trevor-e bash is a weird case because of the GPL
but they are using an old version
18:25
yea, because of licensing reasons
android and apple aren't going to agree on apis so finding a comomn language seems silly to me
@Mauker the force is strong with this one
cross-platform != same APIs
there's already cross-platform Swift and Kotlin frameworks
but they are painful to use atm
if you can confiv
convince google to use swift great
but they already adopted kotlin
@trevor-e doesn't kotlin complie to bytecode while swift is more so native code?
being open source is kinda irrelevant at that point
18:29
I thought were were discussing swift here
we are, I was answering your other question
ah I see
so you are saying becaues kotlin does it swift could compile to native code also
if apple wouldn't restrict language usage
I would argue you should just get kotlin running on iOS
you can already write Android apps with Swift
18:31
kotlin is official and still sucks with certain errors/warnings compared to java
it's just painful to do so with the current tools
hardly think swift on android works well
earlier I was just saying that I hope it improves to the point of being easy/accessible for more developers, and eventually the best cross-platform solution
@Mauker lol adam with a new account to hide his mistake :D
@payne Two in a row! yay
18:33
@DaveS Congrats, awesome UI!
thanks mehdi
UI is indeed quite slick
It looks good indeed
glad to learn a lot by the community and give back — Drocchio 7 mins ago
That was sweet (for real)
So you made the Android app while managing the 3 other teams? :O
dave is 323 E Cambridge Ave your address? rofl
18:36
Kinda, 1 team
no, it's something random trevor
it looks like your backyard on google maps
>.>
He randomly generated his own address.
Mehdi there's:
Me: Sole Android Dev & General Team Lead
Senior Web Dev: Web App Team Lead / Front End Web specialist
Jr Web Dev: Helps Sr, did some backend
Jr Web Dev: Backend, worked a lot with me and other JR
Jr iOS Dev: Worked with me to make the iOS apps
4 mobile apps, 1 web app and Serverless AWS backend
That's an achievement :)
18:39
@trevor-e I'm not sure where that address came from
your app screenshots
which look nice btw
I know, those are from the design process. One of the designers put that Addr in there
sounds like a lot of work dave
since when are you guys working on this?
Yea, we started design in Nov 2017 and Programming Feb 2018
oh cool
18:52
@DaveS do you guys allow multiple accouts to be logged in on the same device?
We don't allow it
no
you have to sign out to log in as a different account
I've been trying to implement that for our app, but living with the fact that we can,t assume that the person has internet all the time to perform synchronisations, it's become a hell
if the person has no internet access, you show the cached information of that person?
I mean our app is very clearly designed to pair people up with internet so we don't allow much without it, but another app for viewing recipes has an image cache and a data cache
multiple accounts logged in at once is pretty ambitious for a learning project
@DaveS yeah we abandoned that :p
so, you do not allow Log Out if there is no internet, right? So if a user is logged in, and then turns off Internet, how does you app behave?
18:58
When you try to use the internet it displays Error: No Internet
if you want to "Log Out" at that point you'd need to clear the cache
My apps delete the access token
if the user chooses to logoff while offline
We use Amazon Cognito so it's all managed there
I currently load everything that's saved internally, but do not allow any modification on such informations.
However, I dislike how it means that we cannot prevent other people from seeing such information if they were to use the same device to access the app (while still not having internet). It's basically the same as saying "well, you don't have internet, so you better live with the fact that someone else using your device while I denied you the LogOff could be seeing your info".
If you manage your own token you can do what Mauker suggests
The obvious solution is to not cache anything and never load anything aside from synchronized information with the DB, but I don't really like that approach. :/
@Mauker what is this token used for?
18:59
If offline delete the cache and token like Mauker recommends
it authorizes the user as logged in
OAuth token?
Yes
well, getting the idToken requires internet anyways
19:16
there is one thing I haven't understood yet about OAuth: how to get the 'refreshToken', what is its purpose, and how to use it properly.
I integrated FirebaseAuth to implement the OAuth 2, and I'm slightly bothered by the fact that it is -possible- for an idToken query to give you a token that is about to expire in a millisecond and so some valid request might be rejected by the Server due to the verification on the idToken failing in that very specific scenario
@payne The access token will expire eventually. That's when this refresh token comes into play.
You'll use it to request a new access token without sending the user credentials again
but do you also use Firebase to integrate OAuth in your system?
See this
I've tried to figure it out, but it seems like the "getRefreshToken" method doesn't exist anymore in Firebase
catch(FirebaseAuthExceptionOrWhaterver e){
if(e.getCause().equals("Token Expired"){ requestRefresh();
} else { handleNormally();}}
@Evan I saw you around but didn't get to say hi! Definitely jump on the Kotlin bandwagon, reach out to me if you need help. :)
19:25
you invented this (pseudo-code-ish), or it's actually how it is?
How can the "requestRefresh()" work if my server doesn't have the refreshToken?
getToken automatically refreshes I think
public Task<GetTokenResult> getIdToken (boolean forceRefresh)
Fetches a Firebase Auth ID Token for the user; useful when authenticating against your own backend. Use our server SDKs or follow the official documentation to securely verify the integrity and validity of this token.
FirebaseAuthInvalidUserException if forceRefresh == true, thrown if the current user's account has been disabled, deleted, or its credentials are no longer valid
that is what I use on the client-side to authenticate a request (I set the idToken as part of the Header of the request), with "forceRefresh" as FALSE
that getIdToken will refresh itself
idTokens last 1 hour. So what happens when I ask for a "getIdToken(false)" a millisecond before it expires..?
set it to true?
I think they might refresh when it gets close
19:39
one should not use 'true'
I feel like you're worrying about a problem you're not even sure you have
another scenario then can happen: you've made two requests very quickly, and both used 'refresh'.
One of them will get denied if they are treated at very near same time on the server-side
@DaveS Indeed. I just wish the documentation would answer my question...
Unlikely. Best not worry about such cases
@TimCastelijns Definition of non-robust programs.
more like junior worry about the sky falling when in reality should be more concerned with flood waters
19:49
^
There's a limit to what you should cover
payne - edge and very improbable cases are to deal with at the end
and 99% of them as they occur
firebase is a pretty robust framework and should generally handle this stuff for you via the sdk
also very unlikely you will be able to cover all those edge cases in first release
19:50
solve problems you have
Welcome to the club. — AdamMc331 8 secs ago
4
but... I want perfection! T_T
@payne better stick to POJOs then
19:51
(aside from handling properly the error responses from server-requests :p )
there is a saying in software development "premature optimisation is the root of all evil"
usually systems like this have built in fault tolerance
like if expiration date is close, getIdToken is going to refresh anyway
you'll never ship a working software if you worry about everything that comes to your mind :D
the lack of documentation around a problem you only "think" might happen suggests it doesn't happen
otherwise there'd probably be an SO answer about it
@payne better not use firebase then
3
@TimCastelijns it was the fastest way to integrate OAuth 2.0 in the app :p
40
A: Firebase 3.x - Token / Session Expiration

Frank van PuffelenIn the latest release of Firebase Authentication, login sessions don't expire anymore. Instead it uses a combination of long-lived account tokens and short-lived, auto-refreshed access tokens to get the best of both worlds. If you want to end a user's session, you can call signOut().

You cannot have both fast and perfect :)
But I understand
lol is that how you justify your slow bot
<3 you tim
development on that is both slow and imperfect
so no real excuse there
first client just signed up
yay
20:00
through your marketing efforts?
i assume so
i assume its a nice start?
well we have a bunch of people signed up and waiting to accept jobs but just started the client facing ad campaigns this morning
so it's going to be a slow process
people need to see/hear about it then decide to download it and sign up
yeah marketing an app is not easy at all
not our responsibility, our client has a marketing company doing that
we're working together with them to do analytics/tracking
20:03
Nice!
@AdamMc331 lmao
last project I did tracking on, was using Mixpanel
@AdamMc331 you just called my bot perfect
@Mauker keystoreClub.add("kataroty");
Dave, do you allow users to connect simultaneously on two different devices?
20:05
@TimCastelijns perfect but slow
We're using Fabric/Answers & Google Analytics/Firebase & Facebook
@payne yes, but it doesn't offer much benefit
you can only request 1 job at a time
so whoever requests first will be used
20:17
@AdamMc331 I'll take it
Better than fast and sucky
Or just Ok
You'll get my stamp of approval when you add betterEcho Tim
how do you manage synchronization of profiles if one of the devices is offline while the other one is doing things, and then that one that was offline comes back online?
Timestamps to help deciding what to overwrite?
changes only occur after online verification
you can't change your profile offline
all that matters is the server data
everything else is a portal into it
do you use Notifications?
I'm drunk :D
On Wednesday
Nobody to chat here?
Am I the only one who likes to be drunk on wednesday?
@DaveS not compatible with any of your devices, fucking great (my OP5T appears as Pixel XL in store, so WTF??)
Come on, somebody should be there
@TimCastelijns TTTTTTIIIIIIMMMMMM
I'm bored :D
20:40
what is this error? my friend testing out the "multiple devices on same account" just sent me that. It's the first time I see that
@DimaRostopira US only
could you summarize this?
it's not "the app has stopped"
@payne dear payne, do you know what is LOGCAT?
20:41
My Account is your app name I'm guessing
Show log or nobody could help you
@DimaRostopira unfortunately, the guy has terminated the application and cleared LogCat and can't reproduce the error.. classic ;)
I myself asked for LogCat too
our app name is "simpleTestApp" :p
-_-
god dammit
You don't have automatic crash reports or what?
crashlytics is fine btw, if you don't
@DimaRostopira thought I wouldn't have time to implement that since we're quite soon to the deadline
are you kidding?
20:44
I guess I'll look into it: I didn't read anything about it
crashlytics takes 10 seconds
hey, easy on me: I'm brand new to this crazy world of AndroidDev :p
I was typing the same
Even if you complete dummy, it would take 10 minutes
he's still a student...
20:45
@MehdiB. that's not an excuse
it is
I'm still 21 guy, who dropped out from university 2 years ago
So nope, it doesn't
are you a student?
I was
Ask raghav maybe, he is
a student has many priorities in his learning journey, crash reporting isn't one of them
20:47
i think the overall sentiment is that we like to be nice to people....
@Evan yes, when I'm sober :D
I'm trying to be nice
I would like to help him
But not having crash reporting is complete fault
Like not having a kill switch like "Your app version is too old please update"
Or storing time and date as string in database
We all do such mistakes, we just need to admit it sometime
We need mobile coder deadly sins list
like getting drunk and engaging in public transcript chat on a Wednesday? =p
@DimaRostopira lol, that's exactly what we're doing
our phpMyAdmin DB only allows Primitives to be stored, though.. how could you store a date and time as anything else but a String...
long
@payne last time when I hired man who did that he was fired on next day
20:52
@DimaRostopira how do I detect appVersion? We did not think about that neither
@DimaRostopira I'm on it! :D
@DaveS maybe, lol
@payne android, right?
@DimaRostopira enlighten me
@DimaRostopira yes
BuildConfig.VERSION_NUMBER
Time and date should be stored as UNIX-timestamp, because timezones and sorting
It took me 3 days to explain that to him
And then I just gave up and fired him
Tired of your shit Dave
Just kidding))
Glad to see you actually
You aren't often here
20:55
2038 is going to be an annoying year
I am but maybe not when you are
I'm here for west coast US work hours M-F
Yeah, my app was deleted from Google Play, it's very fucking annoying
Does it counts as an excuse for being drunk on wednesday?
maybe
is the sun down?
Man, it's almost 00:00 here
GMT+3
ok, you get a pass
Drunk slav man got pass :D Terrble mistake
20:58
well, I'm not a room owner
my pass isn't worth much
it's like a coupon for the normal price
Could you tell me, what's the meaning of "tired of your shit"?
but the thing about "milliseconds since January blabla of year 1970-ish" or whatever, isn't exactly precise I believe
unless that's not what UNIX-timestamps are?
it's precise if you treat it as UTC
21:00
That's it, and if you sync them with server, what could possibly go wrong?
@DimaRostopira it means "fed up with your jokes", sick of your jokes
@DaveS we're talking about the Firebase Crashlytics, right?
no, Fabric.io
fabric is sold to firebase half of the year ago
it's Firebase Crashlytics now
and digits is Firebase Phone Auth now
google bought every SDK in fabric except the one company that wouldn't sell to them (branch)
21:01
so on
@Evan and what?
I'm not very often here at that time, feels strange
their website is beautiful branch.io
too drunk for that shit
sexy website indeed
@payne have you learned what UNIX-timestamp is already?
the most appealing website on my list is stripe.com
every offered service has a different design
21:05
Design doesn't matters
@DimaRostopira if it is what I think it is, yes: when computer are made, they set up this millisecond counter based on some random-ass date in the 70s so "System.Time.now" (or wahtever) returns a single 'long' value representing time which can be used to Benchmark, for example (Init - End)
branch is literally an SDK that gives you a deep link which functions as a Universal Link when clicked on iOS and an App Link when clicked on Android. People who don't realize this is just a few lines of javascript pay them for the service lol.
mine is zinkn.com
@Evan firebase gives that for free, what's the point?
yeah branch is not worth paying for
stupid people will pay for it, like iPhones
21:07
branch did it first, way way before google, then firebase copied it. the firebase links aren't QUITE as reliable, and don't have as much functionality, but DEFFFFO not worth paying for deep links in any situation.
@payne great, but that's not "random-ass", it's sync with exact time servers
meanwhile, talking about beautiful websites, here is my Work-Of-Art
@DimaRostopira what if the computer is offline
@payne everyone agrees on this date so it's always accurate
the clock is accurate or it's not
@payne if it's offline, what could it do?
if i learned anything from working in silicon valley it's that if you have an idea which google can reverse engineer and offer for free, they will, they will until you fold or sell cheap to them.
21:08
if the clock is wrong, all the dates are wrong, timestamp vs date has nothing to do with it
who knows, maybe someone is saving a TimeStamp offline to retrieve the LastUpdatedInfoTime to compared between updated information from two different devices that were offline at the time?
@Evan yeah Google is in the business of taking any service and driving ads with it
they are bastards
@DaveS that's why your server must ALWAYS validate everything
@payne explain how using any other type of date is better?
21:09
@DaveS Don't ask me. :D
the 'long' idea is great
Tired of you shit dave :D
that's what unix timestamp is payne
lol
it's a long
I'll note it for our final report paper as a possible upgrade to make our application more robust
21:10
@Evan so even worse than the corps that shut down companies by at least acquiring them
Just compare size of long and FUCKING STRING WITH DATE AND TIME
yeah, in my opinion.
and multiply your bandwith
@DimaRostopira true that, much less space required, and more robust
Listen to old folks, lol
21:11
unless it's about politics
Don't listen to everyone about politics anyway
tired of politics in r15
really tired
I don't give a fuck about catalonia
Nobody gives a fuck about donbass as well
what's donbass
wtf? I don't wan't to talk about that
The Donbass (Russian: Донба́сс) or Donbas (Ukrainian: Донба́с) is a historical, cultural, and economic region in eastern Ukraine and southwestern Russia. The word "Donbass" is a portmanteau formed from Donets Basin (Ukrainian: Донецький басейн, translit. Donetskyj basejn; Russian: Донецкий бассейн, Donetskij bassejn), which refers to the river Donets that flows through it. Multiple definitions of the region's extent exist, and its boundaries have never been officially demarcated. The most common definition in use today refers to the Donetsk and Luhansk regions of Ukraine, whilst the historical...
Or, maybe more famous, I don't give a fuck about Crimea
Crimea (; Russian: Крым, Ukrainian: Крим, Krym; Krym; Crimean Tatar: Къырым, translit. Qırım; Turkish: Kırım; Ancient Greek: Κιμμερία/Ταυρική, translit. Kimmería/Taurikḗ) is a peninsula on the northern coast of the Black Sea in Eastern Europe that is almost completely surrounded by both the Black Sea and the smaller Sea of Azov to the northeast. It is located south of the Ukrainian region of Kherson, to which it is connected by the Isthmus of Perekop, and west of the Russian region of Kuban, from which it is separated by the Strait of Kerch though now linked by the Crimean Bridge. The Arabat Spit...
Aug 6 at 13:12, by Dima Rostopira
OMG, I've got infected! Now I will start to post catpics and talk about politics
21:18
are you implying that posting cat pics and talking about politics is an infectious disease, dima? :/
I just saying, that it calls spirit of room
"Sometimes we even talk bout Android"
SOMETIMES
> R15: Android
> Sometimes
Time to sleep, I don't want to talk about politics anyway
00:24 here, so goodnight
@DimaRostopira There was error while computing your TimeStamp
CrashLytics is set up. Thank you everyone :)
slick UI
21:37
idk never used it
they offer so many services :/
22:03
yo
have I missed anything exciting lately?
I launched my large project today
so no
22:20
So the excitement doesn't start until tomorrow. When all of the calls start coming in
basically
hey, do you know if I turn versioning on/off for testing, that won't affect any existing version IDs
in S3
I was trying to look it up but it's not really an easily searchable thing
no idea, iirc from my class you can't disable versioning once you turn it on
have to delete the bucket
I was going to do it through the AWS console. It's probably fine. Just thought I'd see if you had experience with that
how old is everyone here?
that other dude earlier seemed to be saying he was only 21 and managing team? wtf
22:32
My feature is finally being reviewed and tested after more than a month in CR. And now he's getting different results than I did when testing. blah
Dima Tostopira
he's a liar
j/k don't know
Belarus is a weird place
ages range from teens to...Carl
Tristan to Carl*
22:34
even better
you must be at least Tristan years old for access
If you exceed Carl years old then you probably don't own a computer
If you exceed Carl years old you're probably dead
I was purposely avoiding that
we all want to avoid death but Carl comes for us all
that's...not what I meant
but that too
How was midwestern summer cM?
22:42
hot/cold/rainy/dry so..normal
you know what they say...
Don't sit on a cactus?
ah
22:58
alright, so somehow the PreferenceActivity crashes on another phone, but not mine
com.example.payne.simpletestapp.deviceStorage.preferences.SettingsPrefActivity@‌​fc045c9 must implement OnFragmentInteractionListener
why would it be bothered by this on one phone, but not another, that's weird

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