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00:07
Whew not gonna do a BLE app. Instead they went with someone who thinks they can do a fully featured iOS and Android BLE app with a backend server and logins for 50k
good luck I say
Nah
You just know they're going to come back in 6 months with a completely fucked mix of cordova and react that doesn't work and ask you to fix it
That's when we point to the original scope and say this is what we charge
We just had that happen with a 50k app, he tried to go with a solo Xamarin developer, came back 4 months later
To be fair, some solo developers are really good
There's probably a handful of people in this room who can do a complete app end-to-end
You gamble on that
Backend, auth, app, everything
00:12
I could do it as well but you generally don't get the same quality of communication and work when you get it at 20% of the price oversees
Of course, the odds of them being available to work on a project you aren't willing to spend enough money on is also minuscule
anyone who CAN do that is going to charge competitive rates
Pfft, not me
I'd do it for 60k
In 12-18 months
Because it's gonna be the bottom of my pile
An administrative web app, serverless api, iOS and Android with BLE that integrates with hardware for 60k?
I was talking about the Xamarin guy :P
00:14
ah =p
The xamarin guy charged 10k, we specced it out at 50k
@DaveS Honestly no idea how app dev pricing works tbh
Most of my consulting work happens in crypto, which is... lucrative
in the US you estimate in hours and charge 150+ an hour
$300/hr isn't uncommon
Indian agencies undercut bids all the time though
I could see that
That's the great part about crypto
People are so terrified about bugs that cause huge money loss
That they're willing to pay top dollar for it
00:15
as they should
We generally don't want the clients who want cheap development anyway
they always complain the most
If someone tells me "But X in India/Philippines/Indonesia" will do it for 1/3rd, you just point them to the weekly articles about some company or exchange losing 7-9 figures because of bugs
Yup, if you aren't short of work, being picky is definitely worth it
Saves you years in meetings
definitely does pay off
annoying cheap clients aren't profitable either so it's not worth it
Had a client once complain we invoiced him for 6 hours of my time that it took to debug an issue he blamed on my app that was ultimately his website.
He said, "why am I paying when you didn't make any changes"
Lol
Working as a solo guy, it's acceptable for me to say "half now, half on completion"
So I usually work with that
this was a recurring maintenance guy
we usually bill upfront
00:31
GODDAMN
The name Ambien is thought to come from the word "ambient" or similar words in French. Ambient does not mean "prone to making racist comments," but it does mean "of the surrounding area or environment." http://www.dictionary.com/browse/ambien https://twitter.com/NYDailyNews/status/1001691656830275586
@DaveS I'm not super worried about being stiffed, because for a lot of the projects I do, I can build my payment into the smart contract
so there's literally no way they can not pay me
oh we just work on retainer, you buy x hours at a time and we stop work if you don't keep making payments
I usually do flat rates, because most of my work overlaps between projects
So it's kinda "write once, sell 20 times"
yeah we do that with small jobs like wordpress websites
I'm only involved with the large jobs though
Dave's that heavy hitter
00:43
Large jobs likely means Dave won't interact with the clients much, so they won't get tired of his shit
@RaghavSood and that's why I bill / hour
I think you should just pay dave to bill for you
Pay him per hour :P
however because of that, my client won't let me do refactoring or sprints for bugs fixing, only new features new features
which kind of annoys me, because I don't wanna have a mediocre reference....
literally every feature is produced under "quick we need this for the next week for a big meeting".....
being a solo dev sucks
You should have the contract spell out that rush jobs incur an additional 50% because of the time you need later to refactor stuff, and the every week has 1 day dedicated to refactoring
00:51
there is no "later", the next monday same thing, "new feature....."
the 1 day is a good idea, I'd also add another day for bugs fixing
they were planning to get a tester at my request, it stayed on the "plan" status, same for the request of a second developer :D
shrug sometimes you make the money, othertimes you say, "I warned you about this. This feature is 3x the cost because you didn't refactor"
@DaveS 5x + 1 week paid vacation to stop yourself from going insane
@MehdiB. later == never
exactly!
should have charged more and added 2 other resources without involving them into this
I actually think it's a good idea, I might try it
@DaveS that was your way of telling us you don't do php? :D
01:01
Only if the sky is falling
I've got a senior dev, 4 jr devs an intern and 2 front end engineers for that
Not sure the intern likes you for assigning them php stuff
intern actually doesn't do client work due to the terms of the contract
hopefully we hire an Android dev soon, as the only one it gets tough to manage everything
yeah, it's dangerous to have a job centered on 1 resource
(for a company)
01:07
yeah
what's the word for this? synonym of: everyone is "replaceable"
redundant?
nope, I need to find it otherwise I won't be able to sleep
they used to tell us at ibm that XD
i think replaceable is the word
01:14
@MehdiB. You are employee #<7digits>
yeah, I just remembered it, it was actually the opposite, "no one is indispensable"
@DaveS wow tfti
@RaghavSood hahahaha I hate matricules XD
you were unwilling to relocate Tristan =p
Pay me and I'll move anywhere you want
Wait relocate to where?
01:15
@TristanWiley We can give you $2
Phoenix
When did I say I didn't want to relocate?
Phoenix is nice
For an internship you wanted remote
I climbed that hole in a rock thing once
01:16
o.0
I don't think I've ever said that
Unless this was in 2016 in which case that's not fair. I was stupid then
You'll always have that feeling, we always find our past selves (at instant "t") stupid at "t+1"
(not applicable to Raghav)
Indeed
I'm Stupid in the future too
sometimes I wonder how do adults managed to discuss with me in the past when I had some dumb analysis and views
Raghav XD
oops I guess I did reject you Tristan

shutdown

Oct 16 '17 at 17:10, 1 minute total – 6 messages, 3 users, 0 stars

Bookmarked 12 secs ago by Dave S

graduate and apply
ouch
I'm hurt
01:21
> intern actually doesn't do client work due to the terms of the contract
you didn't miss much :D
I missed Dave :'(
I mean, if you were possibly hiring Tristan, wouldn't you put that clause in the contract too?
savage XD
"It says here that your interns will not work on my project. Why is that?"
> Opens Tristan's Facebook
*signs contract*
Alright, I guess I was a bit early. But I'm still calling this.
01:23
lol
I had one saved for Dave too because I wasn't sure who was gonna try and roast me
That's cheating
It's well known that the probability of Tristan setting himself up to be made fun of in r15 is 1
We all knew Tristan is a cheater, he's too stupid to get into college on his own merits
#burn
jk <3
01:49
@AdamMc331 planetbrain.jpg: Become the OS and stream all content from the cloud.
02:08
> eliothedeman/heath
A distributed ledger... get it?
02:18
lol
 
3 hours later…
05:02
Lol
05:54
Morning
06:46
Gooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooood Morning Everyone!!!!!! :D
Happy coding
\o morning
@RaghavSood are you there?
morning @SurajRao @W0MP3R @RonakMehta
o/
07:09
\o
Venki, I am not around.
you are now
@RonakMehta your profile is a round..
yes.. I will show myself out
@VenkiWAR Perhaps, why?
user443346
08:00
o/
08:32
21
Q: What is the purpose of HACKED-META-INF folder in Android app APK

LubosRecently I noticed that APKs generated in Android Studio (v. 2.3.3) have different inner structure than before. What caught my attention was especially the folder named HACKED-META-INF. Does anybody know what is the purpose of this folder? It contains following files: HACKED-META-INF/services...

^ bounty hunters, thx
@TimCastelijns why especially for npm users?
08:57
@TimCastelijns thanks, there was nothing within your last link which mentioned npm which is why I was a bit confused lol
09:09
Hey guys, does anybody knows how can we access google api for places with different API Key and for getting a Route with different API Key? I know this sound strange but is it possible?
user443346
Question unclear, please try again
09:25
You can provide the api key for each rest call. Just pass it as a parameter or make two instances of your rest adapter and you are good to go
user443346
Amazing how you could make something out of that gibberish
Zoe
Zoe
@Jordy "How do I use two different API keys for Google Places in one app?"
user443346
There we go, wasn't that hard - I actually had no clue what he ment untill you cleared it up.
09:58
React Native rant #58: Why is there so many 3rd party plugins instead of just contributing the changes involved in these plugins to the actual RN project
modularity
They're not all imported by default in RN anyway, you can explicitly import each thing individually
like if I want to use RN's Button component: import { Button } from "react-native";
I guess you can ask the same question on every platform
why is google maps a separate library instead of included in the android sdk?
No that's completely different
Google Maps lib is developed and maintained by Google. Google also develop and maintain the Android SDK
Whereas when it comes to a lot of the 3rd party plugins for RN, they're all developed by external 3rd party developers, like RN-Maps which was originally developed by AirBnb devs
I do know what you mean
10:09
Expo which can be used to manage / run RN apps can run all RN components fine but as soon as you need to use 3rd party plugins, you need to run an eject command to generate all the android / ios directories so you can plugin these 3rd party dependencies
Throw in issues like the plugins using different versions of gradle / different target API versions or even just different node_modules and it just seems very fragmented / poorly managed
Also weird the way you can have yarn or npm as a node package manager. Why can't they just use one and make it the best one
best is subjective
"oh I'm having issues with your plugin when I was using yarn like this..." "oh I had issues with your plugin when using npm..."
just double the headache
there will always be people who want something else than the standard
makes me grateful for gradle tbh
why did they make gradle? there was already maven
10:17
Gradle quickly became the standard whenever Android Studio was released no?
Gradle also has a plugin which allows it to use Maven does it not?
or maybe i'm wrong about that
> Why can't they just use one and make it the best one
Zoe
Zoe
The same applies to programming languages though
yeah true
apple and its shenanigans twitter.com/maxlynch/status/1001940749842345984 why do I have to target that platform :(
10:35
Lol
@VenkiWAR you might wanna reread the rules
@MarkO'Sullivan yes it had inbuilt support of gradle from the start
11:10
Canary 16 has support for Android Jetpack \o/
not that i'll be using any of it any time soon /o\
11:28
You almost made a complete man there
nnu ratsf
user443346
Allright, just got out of my loan negotiation at my new job, €2650 excl taxes.
user443346
11:43
I'm happy
Is it normal to take a loan when you start a new job?
user443346
Fuck off robot
No, genuinely curious
user443346
Loon = salary in Dutch
Ah
@UmarAta Welcome! Please read, confirm reading, and follow the room rules before you do anything else: room-15.github.io
11:52
@Jordy awesome
what will your title be jordy?
user443346
God
user443346
No, Lead software developer
user443346
PHP & Java
user443346
11:55
I'll be the first Android dev they hire
hmm so a new android app?
user443346
Yes
jordy, how much are the taxes
user443346
Around 600 euros i guess
user443346
Probably a little less
12:01
probably a little more
user443346
Taxes is indeed 600 euro's
user443346
595
so around 2k euros for you nice
user443346
Yeah, I'm allright with that for now
12:05
wat
2k for lead?
nice then
what is avg pay then murat?
user443346
Average here is 2350 excl taxes
For a lead developer? 2400€ per month (without taxes)?
how much do you pay for your rent?
user443346
Jup, in my area
user443346
Rent is 625
12:08
ok...
I pay 1400€ per month rent, so I need to, and do, earn quite a bit more
Listen to warren, since he is in a lead position he knows a bit more about that stuff
1400 euro rent is insane
but i can tell you that a lead dev earns almost double that
that is less than my month expense
user443346
Here in Holland? Forget it
12:09
130m² with 40m² garden
user443346
Maybe for a senior
user443346
I have 80m2 with 40m2 garden
user443346
But I'm alone :P
wait you are a lead but no senior?
user443346
I won't call myself senior yet, medior yes
12:10
that kind of contradicts a bit
user443346
in PHP I'm senior but that says it all
i have 100m2 with 40m2 garden
and rent is around 250$
everybody is a senior in PHP... in that state you learned to use better languages
12:11
lol warren
user443346
Just hire me Warren
I wish I had an open position
@ColdFire m2 stands for million square meters?
CF $250 for individual?
user443346
I don't see a problem with that Warren, just push a colleque from the stairs
12:13
no ronak for that flat
user443346
"oops, my bad"
lmao jordy
nope, all too good to waste
user443346
As long as you don't re-use my move when you've hired me
12:14
You wouldn't see it coming :D
jordy karma will have its way with you
user443346
True that :D
@TimCastelijns i thought it meant "miles" but yours seems more correct
user443346
Karma is a bitch and I'm her pimp
2
user443346
I went to the job application in this outfit:
user443346
12:17
This is so nice.
user443346
@TimCastelijns Frank van Etten - Leef als een zigeuner, put it on repeat and enjoy caution: may cause suicidal feelings
the name alone tells me that
user443346
My current employer will be so happy when I hand out my letter of resignation, not :D
user443346
12:27
I might record it
is there an opposite to onAttachFragment?
you can use onDetachFromWindow
doubt it
I read and understood the rules
user443346
12:32
^ :O
Thanks for letting me in ^^
the perfect applicant
who let him in?
user443346
Did someone even let him im
sneaks away
user443346
12:34
In case the answer is unknown: Blame Tim
I do not know you but your name is lame
and for this rhyme I request my fame
thunderous applause Impressive!
user443346
Warren, lets do a IT rap battle
user443346
I control my flow better than TCP
user443346
I rep the west coast like Eazy-E
12:36
I will start when you fix the "an IT" issue
I let him in btw. He complied to the rules before I was done typing
@TimCastelijns there seems to be no ondestroy something method
doubt it
12:38
Tim, you should switch the order: first message him, than grant access :D
It is like: Smile, turn around, rolling eyes.... not the other way around!
user443346
While Warren's busy poppin' stacks I'll pop a cap in your skull, while you smoke your crack pipe I'm gonna pipe you to /dev/null
user443346
AND NO GUYS, ITS JUTS A RAP - I'll hug Warren if i could
@geisterfurz007 I guess your RN project brought you here?
Yes and no :) Zoe pinged me twice with some React Rant going on here and I was curious if I could ask here if I had problems
@WarrenFaith normally I do this, but I know this guy
12:41
Jordy, you are not worth original C
So let me just reuse for you to see
My first dis I made before
it will be messy, prepare for gore
Jun 23 '16 at 14:11, by WarrenFaith
> You are nothing compared to me
when I hit you it stings like a bee
You feel just the pain rising up
so do me a favor and shut the fuck up
@geisterfurz007 yes you could ask we have @MarkO'Sullivan working on it
user443346
Damn, the follow-up rap
user443346
DWORD to your moms, I came to drop bombs
user443346
I've got more rhymes that San Jose's got dotcoms.
12:42
Lmao Warren awesome
I made some rhymes in my mother tongue, they are better
user443346
You mean in angry german?
more sentimental/melancholic
Angry is implied jordy
Angry is default
user443346
12:43
My lyrics get stolen by sucker MCs
user443346
I gotta sign my rhymes with PGP
Can still get stolen. Unfortunate ;)
@geisterfurz007 would recommend the Reactiflux discord chat room and/or GitHub, think I'm the only person using React Native here (and I've only experienced React through React Native). Link to discord chatroom: discord.gg/qNP6CV
@MarkO'Sullivan Sweet, thanks a lot!
user443346
12:45
@Jordy I have not once said that lol
user443346
Oh
user443346
Guess I did my job right
user443346
Let me try it again tho
user443346
12:47
You spelt Jordy wrong
user443346
:D
user443346
I'm pretty sure I can write my own name tho
too early :D
@Jordy okay good because I wasn't sure for a second
user443346
12:49
Pretty sure I wrote my name when signing up for SO/FB/Google
Woah that discord server is huge!
Yeah it might be worthwhile muting some channels and just posting wherever is relevant for your issue
What ever you do don't touch my code
it does not compile being in Luser mode
Even my gradle would refuse to work
it is just not used to listening to a jerk

Your rhymes are nice but don't pretend
reading buzzword book doesn't help to blend
You don't understand what you just rapped
You are in the losing spot forever trapped
user443346
I'm impressed
user443346
12:53
What's wrong MC Plus Plus, am I making you nervous?
user443346
Even skanky fat hoes give you denial of service
user443346
Ok this one was a little harsh xd
user443346
Sorry guys, don't flag me
@Jordy WOAH!
user443346
It is too late to edit this message ;_; noooo
12:55
Congrats to the level up
Reached level two, Cap'
Nice to see years of work paying off
Another lifetime for level three - ready for takeoff
was rhyming me and xD intentional?
user443346
I may not have a label but I rap like a star
user443346
I'm an unsigned long int and you're an 8-bit char.
What you call harsh I call default
welcome to the world, out of the vault
Ready to be hurt and broken
I'm done, I have spoken
Can someone please make this a video?
12:58
I need someone for a voice replacement, my voice sucks :D
anyway, back to work
was fun. Lets call it even Jordy
user443346
Agreed
user443346
We showed the people here who're boss

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