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00:03
NEVAR
makes me wish endless.cat was a thing
^ now this is a hackathon i could go to
00:19
I like the zippable banana
o/ ola morning
lol same here eski
00:44
^ incredible opportunity!
01:07
ooh
Congrats!
Morning
I'm thinking of using Project Lombok for some pojos
Good afternoon!
Hey @Cjames I got our library open sourced, if you could help out in your spare time.
01:20
where?
@TristanWiley this is hella cool
@TristanWiley This reminds me of my macro shots.
@AnubianNoob I just invited you to Hedgehog Hackers
02:02
@TristanWiley huh?
On Facebook
Hi
@LawGimenez sure if I have vacant time
@LawGimenez do you have any idea regarding on the pricing of android dev enterprise dev.
02:22
I'm trying to get a panel like the bottom one there
How do I make that shadow?
You can use Paint.setShadowLayer
02:39
@eski Whoa... but View.setLayerPaint() requires API level 17, is that how you'd use it?
No I'd just draw a rectangle in onDraw of the view.
Oh gotcha, custom view... So I'd have a linearlayout for the panel with a custom view for the shadow and then a view for the content of the panel?
I was thinking of having the container be a custom view and you just draw the white rectangle as the background.
Alternatively, you could do it as a shape gradient since it's flat too.
shadowLayer might be overkill for this
Gradient was what I thought of first haha but I thought there'd be a better solution
nailed it
Thanks eski!
GUYS WATCH OUT ANDROID IS CREATED BY TERRORISTS
<violently hammers alt-f4>
03:12
What is enterprise android dev? @Cjames
03:30
When you say you're working on an Android app but are really using PhoneGap
o/
@AnubianNoob I walked past TechStars today.
:O
Was anyone there?
also why couldn't you walk past when I was there... (/s (/s))
user457812
03:47
(NOT /S JUDGING YOU 150% ALL THE WAY)
04:05
No, it was right before the building closed, I went to the baseball game today and passed through.
If you divide by a positive number in an inequality, you don't have to reverse the symbol, right?
all app not including the game development apps
04:34
game dev can be very very enterprise
04:48
o/
\o/
\o/
We're cheerleaders.
05:03
yeah!
> maven is innocent
@Cjames alive>
@Blackbelt Hi
@RaghavSood around
hides pitchfork behind back
So, who's pinging people so much?
@McAdam331 can you ping yourself?
Nope.
05:19
Yo Shinobis
user457812
I need more people to send Undertale to
user457812
More people who will actually play Undertale
user457812
So that they too can experience how good it feels to play Undertale
what platform is it for?
05:42
o/
any blog posts today?
Nope, not since my color one yesterday
I have an idea for one though
user457812
@McAdam331 Mac OS and Windows
user457812
I should go to sleep. I'm probably still sick seeing as I developed a cough and sinus problems today.
05:57
You went from developing apps to coughs? Dang.
user457812
I spent most of yesterday dicking around in Javascript trying to make something work because debugging Javascript inside an app is nearly impossible.
user457812
On the upside, I now have a javascript snippet that will replace every word on a webpage with "WUB"
3
nice!
good morning
@nil this is the pinnacle of javascript programming.
@LawGimenez I mean anything that are not game applications
user457812
06:07
That's basically the best you can hope for because it's an awful language, otherwise
user457812
I continue to be amazed that people keep falling back to dynamically typed languages when in browsers you really, really don't want that
yeah, i should learn javascript for unity this year.
user457812
It's no longer "well that's fine if it just breaks"
user457812
Now it's "my website is broken and I have thousands of people just sitting there waiting to hang me"
i think i'm just gonna tell the teacher that our group will be doing the project in c#
user457812
06:09
For that, we really need strong, statically typed languages where we can be assured, up front, that at least something is right.
No idea @Cjames
user457812
Also, really, dynamically typed languages just don't hold together after about 5,000 lines or so. Projects of any size in those fall apart rapidly.
then how do you charge fees on your freelance? @LawGimenez
Per hour
so how much?
user457812
06:10
I pray I never have to go back to freelancing
user457812
It is depressing and unpleasant and pays poorly unless you're willing to just give up all of your free time
enterprise app dev is fun. i do it all the time.
user457812
I work on backend servers because I like building deathrays.
Not gonna say it here but its enough for a single dude like me.
user457812
Though right now I'm building an iOS app.
user457812
06:11
I wish I could use Go for that.
ugh. freelancing. brocoli-on-the-plate face
iOS is evil.
user457812
... What do you have against broccoli, jerk?
atleast you're using swift, right?
it's small, green, and tastes weird.
user457812
I am, but I'm more of an Obj-C person.
obj-C is the hell pit of programming
the equivalent of the sarlacc!
how can you?
user457812
06:12
I love C, and Obj-C is just like C plus handy features and a nice runtime.
@LawGimenez can you please join the room?
user457812
I use a Mac, I have an Apple Watch, I use an iPhone and iPad, and I will be buying the iPad Pro when it comes out. You're barking up the wrong tree when it comes to what I use.
and a terribly wrong architecture behind that is still contaminating my pretty, slim swift XD
user457812
Swift's pretty bloated
user457812
It's too much typing to do basic things and ultimately it's just turning into Java
user457812
06:13
They even did the stupid thing and added exceptions to the language
but exceptions ARE a thing
user457812
The only people who like exceptions are people who don't actually handle errors
or who dislike system memory management errors.
user457812
I write backend server code for a living most of the time, I don't have the luxury of just going "eh pass it along"
user457812
And the fun one which is "eh pass it along" until it just crashes the program.
user457812
06:15
Which is what most people do 'cause they don't actually bother handling errors. They just log it and die.
there is no way in the iOS architecture to correctly handle memory management. you just have to pray for it to don't just release your desired dictionary before you need it.
atleast via swift.
user457812
I have no idea what you're referring to, 'cause memory management hasn't been an issue in iOS or Obj-C in.. a long time, really.
@jyoon I was gonna write about animations since I haven't done that yet.
well, until i made a lot of clutter code, i had continuous problems with constants static public objects being locked & passed by reference without my permission.
user457812
Constants?
user457812
06:17
Passed by reference?
yes.
user457812
I really have no idea what you're saying there.
var potato = PotatoManager.instance.getPotatoUrl;
modified original text.
user457812
Not seeing what you're talking about still.
user457812
What is "locked"?
06:19
i request from thread A a potato url instance
instead of jsut copying the value
now that potato var IS the static element
user457812
.. So you're complaining that you did something bad in a multi-threaded environment?
if i try to access from thread B, it will throw a EXC_BAD_ACCESS
and if i modify the var, it will modify the static element too.
user457812
No duh.
user457812
You declared it var. It's mutable.
why? it should be perfectly fine to read constant data from many threads
user457812
06:20
He's complaining about writes from multiple threads to a global variable.
but if it's mutable and you can change it, you are doing it wrong
yep
user457812
i.e., The thing you learn really early on not to do in any language.
user457812
If it were read-only, you'd declare it using let in Swift or something like static NSString *const Foo = @"woop"; or something in Obj-C
the var is the endpoint
user457812
The static part's not strictly necessary there, but I like limiting stuff to TUs
06:21
the original point is just a let most of the time.
user457812
I'm going to be frank here and say that your concern is a concern in every language, OS, runtime environment, and so on that has multiple threads. This isn't related to Swift or iOS, it's just you.
global variables are a problem, always
but that problem does not happen to me in java when i build rest clients for our apis.
user457812
Or it hasn't happened yet and you've got data races you don't know about
java just doesn't check such things
user457812
06:23
Data races are hilariously fun to discover
user457812
Like a coworker of mine was storing a global response object in a Go program that an HTTP server wrote to whenever it got a request, so it could build its response up
user457812
Guess what happened if you sent two, three, four requests at the same time?
user457812
All sorts of magical memory stomping.
lol.
user457812
It's not a problem with Swift or iOS, it's a problem with you not being aware that you're doing a very, very bad thing.
06:24
I don't understand how someone could write code like this, it's madness
user457812
Your code's actually hideously broken and we're now pointing it out to you, which should scare you.
user457812
@SargeBorsch PHP people have this.. misconception that a process is only alive for a single request.
but that was not PHP…
user457812
So when I got into digging around the code, I basically just turned on the race detector in Go and went to town
I thought PHP is used by different people
user457812
06:25
No, it wasn't, but where I work, almost everyone knows PHP and not much else.
not programmerrs
well i handle it correctly ( only one access at a time) in java, the problem is in swift i can't have that much control.
user457812
You can have as much control as you want in Swift.
user457812
Again, it's an issue with you, not Swift and not iOS.
not-so-well-documented.
06:26
what do you mean by one access at a time? you use locking? (synchronized for example)
user457812
You being unfamiliar with basic multithreading issues and whatnot doesn't lead me to believe that you're in a position to be critical of how Swift and iOS handle threading (hint: it's up to you to not do bad things)
well, i'm self learner in swift so for sure i'm doing things wrong.
i use read/write sincronization for those managers in java, sarge.
I haven't seen @mr5 in like two days. He is the only reason I stay up at night.
user457812
So far as I know, Swift doesn't have a built-in synchronized control structure (the runtime's purposefully lightweight and sort of distancing itself from Obj-C's)
so i know that my android app will never try to access at the same time the same object from two points
but i also know that a variable copying that object won't be referencing it like swift has done once or twice
so Cat cat = CatManager.getCats().get(0) won't be a pointer to that array.
in swift it has happened me once or twice and i still have to understand how.
06:30
https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/documentation/Cocoa/Conceptual/Multithreading/ThreadSafety/ThreadSafety.html
I guess, most of this article will apply to Swift as well
user457812
Stuff on thread safety generally applies across all languages with threading
I mean, Apple-specific classes for thread safety
but principles are common, of course
user457812
They're kind of obvious. General purpose locks/mutexes, lower-level atomics, etc.
user457812
The only really special stuff is libdispatch
so, I guess CptEric can take a look at these things and maybe after this Swift will let him have enough control
06:33
still i know nothing of objective-C, the syntax is too different from any language i've seen
it's just C with some backwards-compatible extensions
it's maybe hard to read fast, but it's certainly possible to understand what it does, the rules are simple
and if you plan to do iOS stuff for a couple of years, it must be a good investment
will give it a try on my free time as it is a must on the future. for now my current app has been fixed using SO's workarounds.
user457812
gist.github.com/nilium/ecca08b3628189f3b8b1 ← For reference, that's basically all you need to use Obj-C's synchronized in Swift
user457812
36
A: What is the Swift equivalent to Objective-C's "@synchronized"?

Matt BridgesYou can sandwich statements between objc_sync_enter(obj: AnyObject?) and objc_sync_exit(obj: AnyObject?). The @synchronized keyword is using those methods under the covers. i.e. objc_sync_enter(self) ... synchronized code ... objc_sync_exit(self)

user457812
There's also that, which is a little less practical because it's not part of the public Obj-C runtime API, but it's also probably not likely to change.
06:46
good, thank you.
:3
user457812
That said, storing mutable data written to by multiple threads in a global variable is still a bad idea.
to be fair, those "global classes" usually are just a layer between activities and the ddbb.
user457812
Still shouldn't happen.
why do they need global mutable state themselves?
just store everything in DB then, for example
user457812
All of my DB access in Go is done via global variables, but that's more because all DB stuff in Go is usually just an interface to a connection pool. Also, the variable never changes.
user457812
06:50
When it's not a connection pool, it's also not global.
user457812
The downside is that I've had to start teaching people to stop creating new DB connection pools over and over in Go because everyone assumes they're getting a single connection
user457812
Anyway, going to sleep because this is boring and I don't like talking about things that make me unhappy, like telling people to not do bad things in multithreaded environments.
XD
relax nil
& good night.
user457812
sarge, what i do ( in java), is have classes that have static method calls to retrieve, refresh, etc... the API data, and a eventBus layer between them and the activites to be able to safely retrieve the results or store them in the internal BBDD ( via another class ) , that way, i don't have data or server access all abroad the app
lol
loving that.
user457812
06:56
Also, for reference, the wub-ifier
11/10 would install.
for example , "public static void loginForUser(User user)". this can be called from anywhere, and inside it's all the networking code, away from the presentation layer / activity.
on completion it sends the object to the awaiting recieving activity via events.
but being self-learner, applying this methodology is hard in swift ( being both the language and the system damn different).
@CptEric I don't see how it'll even find the activity which needs the result
and a better one would be something like public static Future<LoginResult> loginForUser(User user)
i use a eventBus library that sends an event to any listening ( registered ) acitivity.
but could build an own.
07:11
what if there are several activities of matching type?
so i have a @Registered public void onEvent(LoginSuccessFullEvent e){//code}
or fragments
it's usually possible to start several activities of one Activity class
you register the events on the onstart / onstop / onpause
atleast on this one.
both activities / fragments.
what if you start one activity, do login and then immediately switch to other
it's not sent.
07:12
if they are in different tasks, this is possible
on completion of the asyncronous login, it will not find any registered events, and will die.
the same happens with fragments.
it's pretty cool to work this way on android, lets you do networking not only on separate threads but also on separate class files, uncluttering your activities.
and ofcourse if i had to send the same call from different fragments that could be on screen, i'd send any type of identifier along with the object to send or the call, to onEvent check if i'm (fragment/activity) the one who asked for the info.
07:32
o/
08:05
in an expandable list view is there a way to access a parents checkbox, from a child element in the list?
i don't know , sorry.
np
have an expandable list with select-able children, need to update a label and checkbox in parents element
just curious if anyone has done this.
hmm. i'd make the parent be the selection listener. if that makes any sense to you.
ye it does,
i had a similar approach once, a list of different checkboxes and a progressbar that grew or shrinked as long as the checkboxes were selected or not
did that, made a custom listener, made the fragment implement it and throwed it on checkedChanged.
08:13
ok should be simple
thanks!
if you have a custom adapter, i think it'll be.
np.
ye its custom - first i have to debug a networking issue :(
old tutorial but looks like what i did.
ty, i have done something like that before also:)
how was your independence rally?
great. organization numbers : 2-2.4 milions, local police numbers ; 1.4 - 1.6 milions.
sunday is election day.
08:29
does it have legal backing - or is it symbolic?
in amsterdam, yo.
yo
speak dutch?
the election is regional parliament's election. we simply created two pro-yes coalitions and turned it into a referendum
as we can't have one.
so a vote to them is a implicit vote to secede from spain and is a democractic mandate.
one more strange bug that reproduces only on samsung devices. Did I say today that I hate samsung?
who doesn't?
08:33
Goodmorning everyone!
i had to deal with a BSC google maps bug once. only happened on samsung S3 Minis that had not updated to 4.2.2
dunno how to actually handle that - bug in re-setting adapter a collection of item and re-notifying data set change. And the image in first item won't update ((((
Had some error in the ios app we normally never get. Checked the ios code. so weird
what can possibly differ on samsung devices here????
overly modified critical OS files?
i vote for that.
08:36
Eric, if you separate from spain, what will it be called? Catalunia?
Republic of Catalunya, or simply, Catalunya.
yup.
in english Catalonia.
world does directly opposite that it should do: instead of globalisation it fractionizes into smallest republics
our current econmic system supports fractures - it wouldn't work with a single globalized entity
^dat.
I understand
08:41
smaller fractures = easier management
= more competitiveness
i Agree there should be a global effort for space travel and galactic colonization - rather than this arms race we are constantly stuck in.
I just hate the amount of efforts that is spent on drawing the border on map and keeping that border "under control"
Where is our glbal emperor?
because we've defeated all illnesses, launched people on Mars - no more things to do
08:43
yup, there are more important things than boundaries
unless your Russian / ISIS then you can't have borders
but I can't disagree about smaller instances = better management. That's what we do in our code, actually, and it can't work in the opposite eway
we secede not for the MAH LAND, MAH BORDAR
we're economically opressed to sustain never-growing weaker economies at our cost, our own different language & culture are constantly attacked, and our autonomy weakens every new day.
is there a bank of Catalonia?
so if we want to stop falling into the pit of infinite debt, and we want to take care and protect our culture and language , we must be independent.
nope.
08:47
and you will forefit EU membership (damn... unlucky...)
we'll still be EU citiziens, and we'll have to reapply, though, we plan to negotiate temporal treaties.
its likely Spain will veto
then we'll apply EFTA in the meanwhile, Iceland already said they will be more than likely to invite us in.
i think the UK will support you, ours and the Spanish government don't get on
we argue over lines.
this is incorrect to say here - since we're international community here, but the joke is good so I will take my chance: the main thing is not to let Russia help you guys struggle against Spain's tyranny - that will just turn your place into ruined desert
08:52
anyone here used some emoji/smiley framework in a project?
too late Den
we're already a daily headline on RT
despite my efforts to hide
XD
you're fucked
russia uses any excuse to weaken the EU
so they might reconize us just for fuck's sake.
but we're still fucked to be in their POV
08:54
I would suggest fuck the press and keep going.
yup. i'm still laughing at spain's PM.
let me find a video of yesteday's interview.
@CptEric I've been travelling around with 4 Catalonian friends the past 3 weeks
can't hear anything about independence of Catalonia anymore lol

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