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21:00
Alright.
Let's get started.
Hello everyone around.
If you don't know what this even is about then here is a short explanation. We are discussing how we can get organized to improve the Android tag's quality.
first off, have we made any progress from last time
That involves wading through the endless list of Android questions, mostly the unanswered ones that have an answer posted with less than two votes.
Well not much other than that I have been trying to figure out a way to gather a list of such questions.
The result is that we will use the standard SO questions list filtered by something I forgot right now (and have to figure out in a minute).
Everyone who has no write access please request it now.
Alright.
I'm trying to figure out the way I've had my list filtered a couple of days ago.
The main problem we are trying to fix is the unanswered question count.
We can do that by:
hi im listening dont worry
/reading
- Upvoting answers to questions that have less than two votes and are not marked as accepted but answer the question
- Closing duplicates
- Closing abandoned questions (I'll get back to that later)
could we implement something like community bounties? if enough people upvote a question its worth more to answer, and maybe even featured in the chat automatically as a "suggested question to answer"
just an idea
21:10
Well we can set bounties on questions we believe deserve them, yes.
I think the three options are all we have to get questions off the unanswered questions list.
Of course in the process of doing that we will also edit them to improve their quality if necessary.
If you have more ideas then please tell me.
Everyone is free to just ask questions, write his ideas / opinions at any time.
It is not a Octavian talks like a waterfall and everyone just listens event
Is there anyway to coordinate with the Google folks to get some offical answers on some of the more obtuse things, They at least said at some point that this site was the goto place for Android help
@Pyrodante that could be extremely useful
Nothing official.
We have some Google folks on Stack Overflow answering questions.
i dont know how we stand compared to other communities, but in terms of knowledge and impact id say we have some fairly substantial sway in the android dev community, tons of people come here to learn the ins and outs. it would be great to get some direct collab
there really isn't anywhere else besides the docs
21:15
Romain Guy, Dianne 'hackbod' Hackborne, Roman Nurik, Reto Maier and others.
We can share answers on Twitter, Google+ and Facebook though.
i have an exception being thrown in the super of this overriden method good grief
There are also the Android Office Hours on Google+ where you can ask them directly.
Also: I think being more strict about single case questions would help: I am trying to do x through y protocol in z country and it doesn't seem to work right
I will get you some info on that later on if you remind me of it.
also how do you handle questions like: 5 of my users are having this problem and I don't know why...
Office hours is on Wednesday IIRC
21:18
@Pyrodante i think the asker needs to provide some exact specs for the users having trouble
model of phone, api version, etc. pretty obvious but with that info we could at the very least document recurring problems with given model/api combos
Well those are edge cases which can't be dealt with in a generalized way.
right, we should be more strict about closing bad questions like that
I have been going to other SE areas and they are ruthless
Generally if a question lacks information you should post a comment asking the user to add more information.
personally i hate closing questions
especially when there are answers
unless they are to old, i dont see value in closing, some of those "stupid" questions get asked over and over again
Other SE sites are also (not all but most) a lot smaller than Stack Overflow. They have a core team of people that are passionate about the site and it's quality.
That is a bit different on SO.
It is easier for them to organize.
@owengerig There are valid reasons to close a question.
A question being a duplicate of another question, being not a real question, being too localized, being off-topic on SO or being just not constructive.
21:23
here is an example of one of my questions i was very pissed to see closed stackoverflow.com/questions/6802676/what-does-this-do
extremely easy question and was answered 100%
i would like to know how questions like that get closed
Well in that case you always have the possibility to go to Meta Stack Overflow and ask why it was closed.
o, i didnt know that
@OctavianDamiean How do you want to organize the upvoting or closing of questions? Where can we keep a "list" of them for a bunch of us to plow through?
And update the status, etc as we go along
The list is on Stack Overflow already but it was tricky to find the right filter as far as I can remember.
I'll have to figure it out again. Sorry for that guys.
That's a huge list.. I was thinking of maybe restricting it down to n per week so we can all deal with it collectively, and it becomes manageable.
21:27
I would like to gather a general guideline in Google Docs or something similar so the people that want to get involved can just look up all the information in there.
Yeah the Google docs idea sounds plausible
@MarvinPinto For that we'd have to write some Data.SE queries. If there are Data.SE ninjas in here that want to help please raise your hands.
yea the super is throwing an exception under columnindexorthrow, but it doesnt say what column it cant find
I for one hate SQL which is the reason why I can't just go to Data.SE and write the query.
No one?
Alright, I'll have to get in touch with @BilltheLizard then. Maybe he can help us.
How about we start small. You (or someone) pick a list of n (old) Android questions and we can all decide what to do. Repeat that every week, maybe increasing n as we go along. What do you think?
21:31
Well yea, the idea is great, the only problem is that we have to get that list somehow. :)
We can trim it down to n items if we have the query but getting there is the problem.
That's what good old filter Android, go to page 15, and start copy/pasting is all about :)
By start small I meant do it manually.. only initially
But it's just a thought :p
Well that doesn't show us the unanswered questions with more than zero answers but non accepted and a vote score of more than two.
@MarvinPinto I mean we can do that but it gets a bit tedious to find those questions that meet the criteria.
But as a start until we have that list we can start with trying to find dupes for example.
Yeah I agree that's not going to be feasible for more than one time, but yeah, we need to get some SEDE queries going
@OctavianDamiean Do you know of any (diamond) mods that would be interested in helping out? Reason being this process would go a lot quicker. Dupes and such will get closed immediately as opposed to having to wait.
The unanswered questions list can be something to start with for the dupes.
@MarvinPinto Yes, Bill the Lizard.
@OctavianDamiean Excellent!
21:37
He has already told me to talk to him if I need help with this.
Oh, well casting our close votes (and flags) on real dupes is a good start, we don't need a diamond user for that.
Yeah that's true, but if I'm not mistaken, don't close votes "expire" if there aren't enough in a certain time period?
@MarvinPinto Yup I propose we use this room to coordinate the close voting.
Users that want to help us should join that chat room and keep an eye on it from time to time.
Yep, that works for me
I'll have to look up the close vote decay time. Should be something to keep in mind. :)
in Tavern on the Meta on Meta Stack Overflow Chat, 26 secs ago, by Popular Demand
Close votes decay after four days. If someone else adds a vote to close, the timer is reset.
Right okay
21:44
Good, so we have Google Docs and Trello.
If you guys don't want to use Trello it is ok, I'll keep using it. Makes it easier for me to remember stuff.
I'll also look into SEDE queries in the meantime. Data isn't updated that frequently but for our purposes, it won't be a big deal.
So the steps are, getting a SEDE query for our question list, writing a general guideline on how to deal with the most common types of questions, get people to join the Posse comitatus room on chat.Meta and spread the word.
Sounds good.
Oh before I forget, there is the SE API v2 which is pretty awesome, in the long run it could help us as well.
Quick question re: the API (from what you know), is the info semi-realtime, or is SEDE style updated twice a year?
(I'm exaggerating re: twice a year, but you get the point)
21:49
As far as I know it is real-time.
Which is pretty awesome.
Hmm that might work out better.. okay I'll look into that.
Looking at your trello link, you need two more Android room owners and I know you wanted European and Indian timezone. So EST is out? (I would have liked to volunteer)
Your activity on SO and Meta is enough for me to have you as a room owner in here. ;)
21:53
@OctavianDamiean Thanks - much appreciated!
I'm thinking if we can get BillTheLizard to check the Posse comitatus room at least once a day, we can manually report our dupes, etc over there (flagging as well) and he can deal with it on the spot.
Measured progress and all :)
Well Bill is pretty busy with Uni and being a moderator doesn't help either, getting at least three other users to check that room would be an epic win because we'd be five people then.
Any questions?
We'll have to start somewhere so it is what it is. I guess at this point we'll accept all the help we can get. I agree that the Android tag is getting out of hand.
Do you think it would be a problem when we started suddenly spamming that room?
Nevermind I guess not :p
Nah. Don't worry.
We could start off if you guys have the time.
user457812
Hm, I going to have to actually read the log now
5
Q: Error in sending a push notification in android from 1 device to other device

user1118874I am developing an Android Application in which I have to implement push notification in android.I have tried Googling,found some sample codes and tried that. But not working on Actual Device.I followed the steps referred in the website http://code.google.com/android/c2dm/, But that did not work...

For questions like these (with no effort), spam the room with those as well? (to get em closed)
Thoughts?
22:05
so that reminds me, in every other chat room I have been in in SE new questions relevant to the chat room are posted on the feed. Can we do something similar?
user457812
How in the nine hells did that get voted up?
user457812
@Pyrodante We'd be swamped in no time.
@Pyrodante We've had that for a while but I decided to get rid of it since it spams the room at the rate the Android tag questions get posted.
@nil I can tell you how, there is an active voting ring again.
user457812
Which is basically one every five minutes once the asiatic countries wake up, I'd guess.
We will have to keep an eye on such questions and try to figure out how is involved in this because it is a clear misuse of the voting function.
The only thing it does is harming SO.
@MarvinPinto I'm almost 100% sure that this question is a dupe.
22:11
well... it would prevent questions from slipping through our fingers
Well if we in the chat see questions as they come in we can address them faster. I cant see we would get too many more then say the Gaming channel gets. Thats an entire SE site, this is just a tag...
I mean if we really have that many questions, that points to a deeper issue
@OctavianDamiean That push notifications question? of course it is. I've answered variety of them myself and a quick search of SO and Google would give someone a full implementation. That person (to me anyway) seems like (s)he is looking for a complete implementation
@OctavianDamiean Which is a bit irritating.. but such is the nature of the beast I suppose :)
@Pyrodante 50 questions in the last three hours for . 50 questions in the last 19 hours on Gaming.SE.
22:15
@JeremyBanks That's hilarious!
You've got quite a lot to deal with, here. :P
Let me make something clear, tying to fix the root cause of bad questions is a waste of time. We should go there. I've been there got all mad and burnt out. All we can do for now is to combat the effects.
I'm thinking a diamond mod with an itchy trigger finger can make quite a big dent :)
Fixing the root cause is not possible because of the human component. Language barrier, mentality, expectations and so on.
> You can't fix the people!
by someone, I don't know who.
Oh, the next problem is to find which question to pick as a dupe candidate.
There are certain topics where it is not that easy to find the best question. The one you've posted above is such an example. :)
Would be a good idea to gather a list of reference questions.
thats kindof a scary statistic
22:25
That is questions that have a lot of dupes and can be used to point to in the close vote.
Is there a policy on SO to flat out close/delete old unanswered questions?
Abandoned questions?
If the user is has really abandoned it you can close it, I can recall reading such a question on Meta, I'll have to look it up.
Well abandoned may not apply in all cases.. for example if the OP has an active account, etc
I'm not sure how abandoned questions work
On the smaller SE sites, like Ask Ubuntu we generally close them as too localized but I'm not sure if that applies to SO as well.
@MarvinPinto In that case all we can do is to leave a comment on an apparently abandoned question asking the user if none of the answers helped him.
It is a very complex topic since such questions also tend to be just dupes again.
@OctavianDamiean Yeah I guess that works too. What I meant by unanswered (I know, incorrect definition) was questions that literally haven't received any answers in say x months.
22:29
Some may really be too localized.
5
Q: Full queue, lose event in Android Emulator

JbecwarI'm working in the Android Emulator under the sdk tools 15 and in the console I'm getting the error: [Date - Emulator] ##KBD: Full queue, lose event and I can't click on anything obviously. I googled it and the only solution is to delete the emulator and recreate it. This works for a while b...

Oh, well if we can answer it then we should go for it.
This question is a good example of too localized
a quick google search leads me to believe that the circumstances to arrive at that situation are far too rare
Is it a valid known bug?
That's the thing, I couldn't find a bug report either.
22:31
If so it should be closed and a comment should be left to the bug link.
I guess that is an edge case again then.
But the OP was kinda vague in describing the circumstances leading up to it... who knows
I would not really close it. We could try to get input from one of the Google engineers on that question.
There is the #androiddev hash tag on Twitter.
This can be flagged/voted as a dupe - CommonsWare already pointed it out
10
Q: Play audio file when recieving the call

navSuppose we have recorded file in our mobile,when we call to any person,as soon as he picked up the call he should listen recorded voice file,which we have recorded I have gone through the below mentioned links still the problem persists How to play audio file when call starts? http://youropenso...

isnt that just a ringtone?
oh i see, nvm
Yup, looks like a valid dupe.
22:36
This one should be closed as not a real question
11
Q: FFmpeg sample code for creating a video file from still images JNI Android

anishHow i modify the following FFMPEG sample code for creating a video file from still images that i am having in my android phone. I am using JNI for invoking ffmpeg. JNIEXPORT void JNICALL videoEncodeExample((JNIEnv *pEnv, jobject pObj, jstring filename) { AVCodec *codec; AVCodecC...

nods
Oh, something very important. Please review every question that gets posted as a close candidate!
I can't stress how important that is.
@OctavianDamiean In the Posse comitatus room you mean?
In general.
It is important to judge for yourself if it should be closed or not.
@MarvinPinto If you want to use the Trello board as well just tell me.
@OctavianDamiean Sounds good. I'll sign up for an account sometime this weekend and I'll let you know.
Cool.
Oh yea, now that you appear to be a regular in here you can use our very own user script.
22:46
I plan to also start working on something that will generate a list of questions we can decide on.. hopefully get that done this weekend
We will have a lot of useful tools in there when I finally find the time to add other features than trollface cursors. :D
user457812
So many owners.. I will graffiti your homes with crying unicorns
lol
You think we have many owners? Take a look at the C++ room then. :D
user457812
They cut down on it a bit, not that it matters
Alright. Thanks everyone for joining the SO Android office hours.
22:51
Thanks for taking the time @OctavianDamiean
I'll catch you later.
user457812
OpenGL questions are annoying if only because it means I have to run through my usual list of things with the person who asks them
make an OpenGL troubleshooting flowchart and just link it to people
user457812
Debugging any issue with OpenGL in a question, as such, is really tedious. It relies very heavily on the other person actually working with you, which seems to be rare.
user457812
22:54
I hate flowcharts. Making them, anyway.
greatest flowchart ever:
That isn't a flowchart that is madness!
scary thing... it is 100% true
user457812
23:10
Oh god this question makes me want to put my head through a wall
user457812
Objective-C is not that hard to figure out, yet so many people are immensely stupid when using it
23:27
ive got to make some messy queries now fun
23:39
how do you get a cursor from a custom query? i have a multi table query but execSQL() is a void method
user457812
Someone please invent something that allows me to kick people in the face over the internet.
whats your problem with that?
user457812
Problem with what?
oh i thought you were talking to me
user457812
No, I want to kick people in the face for being too stupid to read documentation.
user457812
23:41
To which someone might say, "well how was I supposed to know I should read documentation?" The answer is, of course, a boot to the face.
yea, i thought that was directed at me
im trying to get data from 2 tables in one cursor, i think im SOL
user457812
Wouldn't know, as I don't know anything about SQL on Android.
im trying to incorporate sql syntax very hackily into the native query method but i doubt it will work
user457812
I know a little about sqlite, but not enough to be useful.
yea, the problem with sql in android is there isnt a given method for getting a cursor from a standard string query
they have like a 7 parameter method which writes it for you. it makes advanced queries difficult
user457812
23:44
I generally avoid DBs because they make me feel like I'm trying to apply some large, monolithic, and general-purpose thing to a very specific problem
dbs can be a pain but theyre super powerful too
user457812
That's partly why I feel like it's taking a nuke to a barn door.

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