« first day (3868 days earlier)      last day (1065 days later) » 

5:15 AM
o/
 
 
3 hours later…
7:46 AM
\o
 
8:13 AM
o/
 
\o
 
 
2 hours later…
10:02 AM
tomorrow will be my first short product demo in front of an investor. I have like 3 Minutes or so :D
 
This was the most starred message last year on this day:
May 19 '20 at 17:38, by Raymond Arteaga
user image
 
@WarrenFaith ooh great, good luck on that one :D
 
yeah, thanks... it is just a 4 billion dollar company...
 
o/
@WarrenFaith happy to hear that .. all the best !!
 
thanks
 
10:25 AM
@WarrenFaith good luck man
 
@WarrenFaith who cares, they are still but human with the same emotions as someone who runs a 100k company
and otherwise you can always bring schnaps
 
 
1 hour later…
11:43 AM
@WarrenFaith you'll nail it, you got this 💪
 
it feels a bit strange, I mean I press like 4 buttons, take a picture with the app and explain what every monkey can see and understand by looking at the app... and I travel 1h (for directions) to the office for that :D
 
12:04 PM
sounds fun
 
 
2 hours later…
1:50 PM
Gooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooood Afternoon Everyone!!!!! :D
 
2:38 PM
o/
WOMPER!
 
Tim
sup
 
haarrrrr
 
yo yoooo
 
had to do a corona test this morning
went great "and now the bloodtest" excuse me what
nearly fainted
 
they had to test you for the coronaids
 
2:54 PM
HIYA ADAM!!!!!
Hiya Tim, bB, Bakker!!! :D
 
Hi womper :)
 
heya womps
 
I went to the vet this morning with my little monster thinking he wouldn't had gained much weight
oh boy i was wrong
 
lolol
your dog gettin fat
 
he's "huge" xD
huge -> 6.6kg
 
3:01 PM
Gorrrrdiiiissss
btw womp congrats on your new job!
What function/company?
 
bitcoins be tanking
I decided to invest $100 in ethereum and I've lost 30% haha
 
@MwBakker it's dev on someplace similar to the town hall
 
noice
what languages
 
Tim
she doesn't know OK stop asking tough questions
 
it's going to be a surprise x'D
"tough questions" hahaha
my anxiety is going up day by day 😂
 
3:14 PM
Anyone see anything super exciting at IO yesterday?
 
Tim
sparkles ripples
 
Jello
 
@Tim I'll get her a health package instead
 
4:10 PM
I will appreciate it x3
 
4:26 PM
I just wanted to know why Google has not allowed the use of performant languages like C++ for android even though android is based on linux which itself is made using C/C++ at fundamental levels!
I mean direct use (not through the API or NDK) :)
I was unable to find a proper answer on the web!
 
I don't think anyone here knows why google makes decisions
 
Its not just about decisions! I wanted to know whether there appears any advantage by restricting the use of C and especially C++ directly!
??
 
well C and c++ aren't multi platform/device languages
at least not easily and out of the box
 
But, if you talk about android, then, its evendental that on whatever device the android is running, then, C/C++ must be running on that hardware! Because android internals are made up of it!!!
Just think, if there is an NDK in C++, then, what level of performance one can gain if one has ability to do so!
Moreover, if the NDK is written properly, then, it can be made sufficiently easy to use with the level of abstraction that one can gain in C++!
That's what I was saying!
 
4:42 PM
you use a lot of exclamation marks
I don't think C is synonymous with C++, you can't just say because it's made in C that it should support C++
android and linux are written in C, not C++
 
You can't make much abstractions in C, but, you can surely in C++. That's why I am emphasising on C++ more than C.
By the way, I know that larger part of linux is written in C.
:)
For example, this official website developer.android.com/guide/app-compatibility/… says that these restrictions are made to avoid crashes and improve developer experience, etc.
But consider, for example, windows. Even it is a proprietary OS like android, runs on a variety of devices, but, supports all kinds of languages for development (apart from their .NET framework) and handles even crashes.
Thats the point I was trying to make only!
 
It would probably be a huge pain in their ass to support, so I imagine that's why
although it hinders developers in the end
Plus I imagine most of the API framework is written in Java, so it would be a huge headache for them
 
Hmmm..., that appears to be the reason.
I hope that something like Ubuntu touch would come to rescue later some day. :)
That said, I don't say that I dislike android, but, I don't like that much restrictions either.
Well, thanks!
 
5:00 PM
Yeah it's unfortunate that it has those kinds of restrictions.. but the alternative is much worse on ios
 
For these reasons, I was looking to Flutter and Dart.
I found that dart:ffi would help me to be close to C/C++ whenever I need :)
 
@Abhijeet.py the base integration Java <-> C/C++ is JNI, the android NDK is a wrapper around JNI
you can do pretty much anything you want with native code given you have the right .so files compiled for the right architectures you're targeting
 
5:16 PM
But, that's a kind of hack. These things are not officially supported. And when you try to do a hack, then, these things are often painful to developer, especially for application developers!
 
any ruby devs here?
have a contracted maintenance task we need some help with
 
@Mehdi I think you were unable to get my point. I was talking about official support and NDK.
 
that's not a hack, that's an advanced use of the platform
 
@ballBreaker Moreover, I have got a sufficiently good hint.
 
k bye then
back to my thing
 
5:20 PM
@Mehdi But, it would be much painful as compared to the benefits of direct support and uses. But, thanks!
 
@DaveS get outta here
GET BOY, GET
 
most business applications rarely need interoperability with native code, but most image / video / speech / audio processing libraries do (NDK + JNI), and they then get packaged in a way so that your business application doesn't need that integration
 
@DaveS sorry only sapphire and emerald experience for me
 
shame cause if you knew topaz or diamond it wouldn't be a big stretch
you're telling me, as a big bank software dev you don't know RUBY?!
they specialize in precious materials
 
sorry bro we're the gold standard not the friggin ruby standard
 
5:25 PM
Canada's values are whack
 
ahahaha
truth
 
@Mehdi I get it, but, developer liberty is something desirable for research based projects or geeks or people who want their softwares to have out of the box performance. This liberty is desirable in an OS like android which is shipped in those big no. of devices.
 
your name literally has .py at the end and you're worried about performance?
 
hahaha
 
lmao
 
5:29 PM
@DaveS Insignificant :) But, my answer to that is - I am a python guy for quite some time and have done a lot of projects. But, as a research geek from heart, I love C++ for its performance.
Simple
 
he was kidding btw
 
you only need the C++ performance boost of the NDK if you're doing extreme computations like graphical processing. For your typical use case, it's not worth the hassle
 
Moreover, I fear to say so because, I don't know whether such chats are allowed in this room!
 
the java code on the DVM is actually pretty performant, you seem to be optimizing before finding a bottleneck
 
You're entirely free to do anything as long as you know your way around the last 2 parts of the following, Java/Kotlin Android -> NDK -> JNI -> C/C++
 
5:35 PM
@DaveS your comments about JNI will prove to be
almost useless on a guy who is passionate about performance. Because I know that whatever you say about JNI, there is some overhead accompanied.
 
your job as a native (C/C++) dev is to ship a bunch of working .so files for the architectures you're targeting and the correct JNI integration
(FYI, JNI is what made Java the #1 language for the enterprise for +2 decades thanks to its portability when all legacy systems were coded in C, this is nothing new)
 
performance optimizations are done as an "as needed" basis. Trying to squeeze performance gains out of software that doesn't place a large load on the hardware is an exercise in futility
congrats on your 20% performance boost on threads that take up 1% of the CPU's time.
 
Apart from that, one can't beat the control available in C/C++. And the last thing - Memory footprint, you can run things in KBs! Almost no other languages to challenge that.
 
what is the point you're trying to make? i'm not entirely sure what we're discussing
 
memory is cheap, unless you're running on an extremely limited processor like I do for the firmware in my IOT projects that doesn't really make any impact
he's a performance junkie and he's willing to sacrifice 3x the time in development for a 10% gain in performance that doesn't make a difference to the end user (my guess)
 
5:43 PM
well in that case the solution seems pretty simple no? create your own full C/C++ based android application, and if you're still unhappy create an optimised mobile OS lol
 
^
 
@Mehdi well, I was talking from a software geek point of view :> in simple terms. I would love to run C++ on an OS as great as android, so that some great more great softwares can run without giving much load! I am not emphasising anything!
Please chill!!
 
i'm chill, except we're talking in the air here, with no basis, on concrete constraints or limitations you're facing, pure "what if what if"
 
our point is that you won't notice a difference using the standard documented way that is recommended to the entire world, that trying to use C++ is going to add way more cost than benefit unless you have a very specific and narrow use case that can benefit from c++
the DVM already optimizes mosts calls into C++, that's why they built their own runtime machine
 
@DaveS I know all that stuff. Please don't tell again!
2
 
5:50 PM
then please stop talking until you have a concrete example of your limitation and how you want to overcome it
 
Hahaha
 
lmao
 
you guys suck
 
Legend xD
 
I'm gonna ban you two from discord for those stars
 
5:53 PM
Hahaha sorry we haven't had messages of that kind since +1y or so now xD
 
@ballBreaker See my initial messages above and below this message. I am not talking in air. @DaveS I think you interpreted all that stuff wrong.
 
google does allow use of C++ via the NDK
 
I'll be honest here, i think you should take a quick look at the docs Abhijeet, should narrow down the scope of the discussion
 
You sound like a fresh student who has no idea of the realities of software development in the market. You're basically asking why performance is sacrificed for ease of use and the answer is you can create the same thing in 1/3 of the time with only a 10% performance hit and with the capacity of modern hardware that's huge. The performance gains aren't worth the extra development time
 
And frankly it's not because you produced a piece of code in C++ that it will be efficient in the first place
 
5:57 PM
Until you come up with a concrete example that's limited by the DVM and can be improved with C++ this whole conversation is silly
 
@ballBreaker I mentioned the docs in above the referenced message. I was quite straight and simple!
 
Anyway, that will be 100$ for the consultation
This scene is hilarious XD
 
I didn't intend to know ways to use C/C++ (because I can find them on web easily). I was asking about something I didn't found there.
 
okay, can you tell me how I can use python to optimize performance over any other language for a case I can't tell you about?
 
@DaveS I think you still don't get my point. I was talking about experimentation and liberty and not software development. Take it lightly. I tell you again, I am not emphasising anything. I am done :)
 
6:04 PM
you have free use to use the NDK and C++, what is your question?
 
@DaveS Is talking about anything other than android even allowed here? I fear, this is stackoverflow and most people here are very sensitive!
 
yes we talk about all sorts of things
chat is far less formal than Q&A on the main site
 
Since we are so set on arguing about performance, let me introduce Assembly
Or better yet, let's code in binary
 
I'm not having that argument, it seems you are?
my whole point is that optimizing for performance when development costs are way higher and performance gains are minimal, is something you shouldn't do
 
@Taseer But those don't have abstractions as in C++, which was a pre-requisite before starting this performance discussion. So, I would not love to dive into matters of assembly and binary!
 
6:08 PM
sorry I replied thinking taseer was abhijeet
 
@DaveS xD
 
Generally, one should worry about algorithmic performance before heeding towards the language performance
 
@Taseer Since I am so much of a performance geek, you can safely hope that I already care about algorithimic performance. :)
 
Have you hit a bottleneck?
 
@DaveS racist
 
6:13 PM
What's the point of the discussion?
 
@ballBreaker they are both grey tone avatars, I'm colorblind (not really)
 
@ballBreaker I don't know how you manage to work with bitch JSP. I am done with it. You have my respect lol
 
@Mehdi weird clip lol
 
@Taseer oh man, I'm very much not a fan of it
 
Time to go~~
Cya tomorrow everyone!!!! :D
 
6:22 PM
bye
 
@DaveS Last words of explanation: I am talking from experimentation and liberty scenario and not industry scenario. And when one talks about experimentation, talking about industry standards and how something is done in industry is not a requirement. The experimenter may opt to do pretty much any kind of crazy stuff (because it is not associated with any profit or loss of any individual/enterprise and simply, one wants to try out some new thing).
I hope I made myself clear this time!
Hush!
 
@DaveS the whole movie is a group of 5min dialogues of 2-3 people around coffee and cigarettes, very funny and weird :D
 
I don't know if I should be happy that I would get a job in the USA or should I worry
 
hush tf up dave
 
@Abhijeet.py my answer then is you're free to experiment, there's nothing limiting you from doing so, thus it's unclear what your question is
 
6:39 PM
It was indeed clear! I think @DaveS you messed up providing industry recommendations. For instance, @ballBreaker was able to understand and we got a pretty straight discussion initially.
I am done now.
:|
 
Please apologize for messing up, Dave!
 
I'm honoured
imagine getting so flustered with dave that you thought your interaction with me was pleasant
 
6:55 PM
XD
 
7:54 PM
Imagine getting flustered with dave
 
 
1 hour later…
Tim
9:04 PM
@Mehdi are you going to discipline him? He did not apologize to our esteemed guest abhijeet
 
oh daddy don't discipline me oh no
 
 
3 hours later…
11:46 PM
posted on May 19, 2021 by CommonsWare

Each time Google releases a follow-on developer preview, I rummage through the incremental API differences report, the release notes, and even the release blog post, to see if there are things that warrant more attention from developers. I try to emphasize things that mainstream developers might use but may not get quite as much attention, because they are buried in the JavaDocs.

 

« first day (3868 days earlier)      last day (1065 days later) »