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3:36 AM
fg
 
 
2 hours later…
5:14 AM
 
LOL
 
5:51 AM
Gurumoorthy Arumugam requested access. Rep: 2070 - Questions: 41 - Answers: 17 (ratio 4:1.7)
 
!reject
 
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4 hours later…
10:15 AM
This was the most starred message last year on this day:
Jul 6 '19 at 10:14, by R15-Zucc
Jul 6 '18 at 10:38, by Tim Castelijns
user image
 
10:37 AM
@RaymondArteaga it doesn't work, the same for layout_width = 0dp
 
 
1 hour later…
11:57 AM
.
 
12:17 PM
@RaghavSood nice, yeah so I'm probably gonna do the same, use it over ssh, cheaper and more handy / mobile
 
Yeah, they're tons of fun - unfortunately I left all of mine in NZ so haven't hacked much on them recently
Unrelated: How much would you(/your company) pay for a service to automatically log, store, index, retry, replay, and monitor incoming webhooks?
Save, github hooks, or internal hooks, or whatever
Essentially acting as a reverse proxy that can store, inspect, replay, and forward webhooks
 
12:37 PM
Vishal Arora requested access. Rep: 1420 - Questions: 0 - Answers: 78 (ratio 4:Infinity)
 
@RaghavSood 500 Serbian dinars
Whats the specific use-case for such a service
 
@IvanMilisavljevic A good number of services that send webhooks don't have support for replaying if your service is down, returns an error, or other such scenarios - many services also let you send a webhook to only one upstream, while you might want to send to more (prod and staging, for example)
It's essentially a service to let you intercept webhooks, and then send to multiple places, replay them if your service was down when the hook came, replay them for debugging, search through the contents across multiple hooks, etc.
!accept
 
@VishalArora welcome. Please start by reading the rules and confirm you have read them before saying anything else.
 
@RaghavSood right, makes sense actually
so like a proxy/circuit breaker/multiplexer
we have couple of webhooks but i don't think we currently have needs for sucyh a service
and afaik there are a couple of similar solutions outhere like Amazon API Gateway and NGINX API gateway
well tbh api gateways serve a different purpose, but i guess they can achieve similar resuls
 
1:17 PM
@RaghavSood I'm not sure how to bill that honestly, per application? per environment? per repo?
 
@VishalArora your access has been revoked because you did not respond
 
1:36 PM
@Mehdi Currently just mulling over something like 1k/day for free, 10k a day on a hobby plan, 50k a day on a pro plan, contact us for higher
I'm actually not sure how many webhooks companies use internally
1k a day might be a lot
I can also price on other aspects, like retention - 7 days on free, 30 days on hobby, 365 on pro or something like that
Internally, we do about 10k webhooks a day
But I suspect we're far above the norm
I might just build it up, release it on a free plan with paid plans "coming soon", then see what average usage is like for a few months before deciding on the limits
@IvanMilisavljevic Yeah, mostly born out of issues we face internally, and more recently with github timing out on some CI webhooks
 
1:53 PM
@RaghavSood what kind of webhooks do you use? and for which use cases?
 
The usual (github, external services), and a lot of internal ones for crypto stuff
1 webhook per new block mined across several networks adds up quickly
+ 2-4 webhooks per withdrawal and deposit, which alone is 10k+
 
is this for logging, tracking and monitoring?
 
The service is more for stability
Having a single, stable service to store and ensure deliverability allows us to simplify other services
Since each service doesn't need to implement retry mechanisms and other such stuff
 
so you do it in such a flow: service A failure -> hook -> service A call ... and so on?
 
Nah, the hooks themselves are to exchange data/status updates between systems
Both internal-internal and external-internal
 
1:58 PM
aah, so you use hooks for integrating systems?
 
Yes
For instance, when the user makes a deposit, the wallet system picks it up - it then send a webhook notification to the main system saying that there's a new deposit with these attributes
Similarly for withdrawals - as a withdrawal clears different states (pending, security checks complete, tx built, tx broadcast, tx confirmed) etc. are all sent as webhooks
 
How is this flow any different than a regular app integration via http or something else?
 
It isn't :D
Webhooks are just http calls that are tied to some event
 
so what is the value added?
 
Let's say you have a CI system and it received webhooks from Github to trigger builds/deployments
Your CI server goes down for a few minutes for an upgrade/outage
Once it comes back up, you've missed a webhook from Github - github doesn't retry webhooks, so it's gone forever (not true, you can manually retry them via the github web interface, but it's an example)
If, instead of the webhook going directly to your CI, you send it to me first, I'll store it while concurrently attempting to send it to the CI
Once I fail to send it, I'll automatically retry it for X times
If it still doesn't work, I won't retry, but you can always come to me once the service is up and say "Hey, replay all webhooks between 12:00 an 12:20"
Similarly, if you have an external service that sends you a webhook (let's say, you have a AWS webhook for every server creation event) - AWS only lets you send it to one endpoint, but you need that data in 3 different places
You can send it to me, and I'll send it to all three of your services, and individually track and replay any failures per service
If you have a lot of webhooks going on internally, instead of building the retry logic/multiple hook destination logic into each of your services, you can send it to me, and we do all that for you
 
2:08 PM
I understand and see the value now, thanks :D
 
Excellent, now how much would you pay for it :D
 
so maybe one question worth asking, how deep within a corporate IT system are you seeing your service, especially the application side (for system stuff it makes total sense), regarding topics such as private user data etc...
 
The contact us option would include on premises hosting, so essentially as deep as the corporation's wallet
 
nice, pretty cool :D
alright, so for my scope (data pipelines), retrying stuff is quite important and a big pain and actually expensive (lifting a cluster even preconditions not yet fulfilled)
so I would happily pay 10€ / pipeline / month
 
How many webhooks would that be, per month?
1000?
10000?
1000000?
1000001?
 
2:15 PM
hahaha it's very hard to say, as the up-stream dependencies can be unknown, 1 pipeline I own that runs daily, depends on a datasource generated by +40 pipelines (which I don't know about)
since the default retry count of each pipeline is 3
the worst case would be 3 * 40 * 30 = 3600, so maybe 5k / month for that pipeline
it's actually hard to estimate due to the dependencies down and upstream
I just forgot another unit... pipeline steps... so that number times maybe 10
but for only the level of that specific pipeline regardless of whatever it depends on and what depends on it, I would say: 3 * 30 * 10 = 1k / month
 
Fair enough
Ah, I just remember, we have the email monitoring too
That does about 3m webhooks a week
Totally forgot it existed
laughs in writing super reliable services
 
you use it for customer support?
 
Nope that's a whole separate service, forgot about that too
We just use Zendesk tho, don't really use their APIs much
The email service is what we use to send out marketing + transactional emails
It tracks send events, deliveries, opens, clicks, bounces, complaints, etc.
 
nice :D
so your company is wishing to extend its list of offered services and open some of the tools you use internally?
 
Nah, I haven't built this yet
 
2:24 PM
like what slack did
 
Will be building this myself, won't be a company product
Although of course we'll use it internally if I build it
 
ah okay
 
The email tracking this is also something I built: github.com/RaghavSood/postmaster
During the process of which I was disappointed by your recommendation of Vuejs
 
hahaha
 
But since I trust you so much, I'll probably give vue+buefy another shot for the webhook thing
On the flip side, I hate UI work
 
2:26 PM
I still think that framework is the easiest of them all, I don't have a phd in frontend dev and I managed to use it after 1 day of documentation reading :D
 
i'll give anyone interested 30% of the webhook thing in exchange for UI dev work
It just takes me 1 day to start doing nodejs stuff
 
what does the UI work consist of?
 
Complaining about how bad nodejs is takes about 1 day
 
XD
 
@Mehdi Basic auth UI + a form to create webhooks + a form for account management (DNS set up, email preferences, etc) + a list of all webhooks received + a webhook detail page that shows the webhook logs (received at, sent at, retried at, etc) + payload view
Not a huge UI tbh
 
2:28 PM
I took a look at the docs of vue.js, seemed welcoming and clear to digest, so I decided to not jump in the tech like I usually do and try the alternative schema of the previous generation who read books before doing something XD
 
Probably ~20 pages, of which 5 or so would be the standard login/signup/reset password etc.
Remember, hours of debugging can save you minutes of reading the documentation
It's the Dev Way
I should buy a bridge
Then I can name it Dev Way
 
XD
 
And have a breakpoint in the middle where a section of the bridge is missing
And then name the river underneath Error Handling
 
I'm actually tempted about taking your offer, but also worried you think I'm a hardcore frontend dev XD
 
tbh I'll probably just do it myself, I need to learn UI stuff
But I won't say no to help, both on the backend and frontend
Still trying to settle on a backend language
Go isn't ideal for random JSON inspection
 
2:32 PM
why not?
 
MyWrathAcademia requested access. Rep: 241 - Questions: 26 - Answers: 1 (ratio 4:0.2)
 
!reject
 
@MyWrathAcademia you currently do not meet the requirements to chat here. You can find our requirements in the rules.
 
Working with JSON at runtime is very verbose - compile time settings require you to know the JSON structure in advance, which naturally won't work when all the JSON is customer supplied
Not that it would be a huge issue, but it might make searching a bit hard
Unless that's offloaded to something like lucene or bleve
Which is an option
 
I met a guy lately, who works at a company doing everything in Go, except data pipelines, they do them in Python and he was explaining to me how they're thinking of a way to completely get rid of Python in favor of Go
seems like there is a lot of hype around that language
 
2:35 PM
I use go and rust and nix almost exclusively nowadays
Python is my "It takes more than 20 lines of bash to script this" language
Go is very nice though
Built a lot of very good, very stable stuff in it
Our ruby codebase has far, far more bugs than our go codebase even though they are similarly sized
 
but that doesn't say anything about the language, for me the only thing it says is that the developers are probably not at equal levels
 
Ehhh, a lot of it is the language
Strong typing + forcing you to handle errors is a very good way to end up with good error handling :D
But yes, you'd likely have more trouble justifying a shift from Rust or C++ or Java or whatever just on stability
On performance, sure
 
no problem, just throw in some more ram and compute :D
 
I reckon I can run the webhook thing on 2-3 servers for a few million hooks
Just need to plan through the storage system now
I'm thinking N most recent hooks locally, >N on S3 or something similar
JSON compresses quite well generally
Full text search is the hard part
Bleve can probably handle that though
Generate and index with a pointer to the document ID on S3
 
1 thing to pay attention to, is the costs of versioning in S3, in case enabled once, it's super easy to forget, yet can triple the due bill at the end of the month
 
2:48 PM
Yeah, I won't actually use S3
Probably b2
But I'm familiar with costing :D
Spent the last two months cutting down our cloud bill by about 30%
 
someone's ought to have a hefty bonus :D
 
Vishal Arora requested access. Rep: 1420 - Questions: 0 - Answers: 78 (ratio 4:Infinity)
 
!accept
 
@VishalArora welcome. Please start by reading the rules and confirm you have read them before saying anything else.
 
Yes, I already went through the rules doc.
 
3:03 PM
thanks, but it seems you missed 1 key point stated in one of the written rules :D
 
I have read and understood the rules
 
Perfect! welcome!
 
Great. Thanks
 
3:18 PM
@Mehdi Eh, dunno about that - bonuses aren't a huge thing in SG
 
Daniel Stone requested access. Rep: 73 - Questions: 1 - Answers: 2 (ratio 4:8)
 
!accept
 
@DanielStone welcome. Please start by reading the rules and confirm you have read them before saying anything else.
 
!reje - oh alright then
 
Unknown command '!reje - oh alright them'
 
3:29 PM
@RaghavSood I'm sure that's can be discussed
 
Unknown command '!reje - oh alright then'
 
I have read and understood the rules
 
@RaghavSood XD he's like 👌 to fulfill the requirements :D
thanks and welcome Daniel
 
Thought I'd try my luck with 7 less than 80 rep haha
 
You're lucky Mehdi has no social life and is here on a Sunday
, said Raghav, having no social life and being here on a Sunday
 
3:30 PM
hahaha
 
You all having a good day?
 
@Mehdi Yeah, I'll work it out - I'm not terribly worked up about compensation atm
it's an alright day
Been trying to talk Mehdi into building my stuff for free
Partially there
 
XD
having a good day so far, spent my sunday looking online for the best deals to create an rpi cluster, even though I know I'll probably just buy whatever at the end of the day :D
 
Should learn more about k8s at some point since half the company is on it
The other half is my stuff :D
 
that's also my goal :D
I wanna setup all the networking part, the play with K8
 
3:33 PM
Yeah, the Pico pricing is pretty good for what you get
A 3 board kit is <$400
Which is admittedly higher than DIY
But eh
If I can learn enough to save myself a couple of hours every year, I'm already in the green
But nixos has grown a lot on me
So I'm not sure if k8s is worth it
And at that price point you can get an NUC
or a couple of older NUCs
 
I'm having doubts about Pico, I wanna mount everything myself
 
Honestly, I'd say look on your local ebay equivalent for some off lease business PCs - you can get i5-4th gen/8GB/240SSD|500 HDD desktops for peanuts these days
They're much more powerful than Pis
And you can get PCI network cards to properly nail the local networking the same way you'd have it in a datacenter
With a WAN and LAN nic
 
yes, except I don't live in a mansion, where would I put 5 computers at home XD
 
One on top of the other, naturally
You can get a couple of desktop and two Pis - then you get to play around with multiple architectures and all sorts of other cool stuff
You can set up a CI with ARM and x86 build agents and see how scheduling etc works
If you get the SFF desktop they don't take up a lot of space
2 SFF = 1 full sized computer, and they stack really well
I have a couple in NZ
Need to get one for SG as well
 
what would be the benefit over Pis?
 
3:41 PM
They're considerably more powerful, so you need less, much easier to upgrade and expand (PCIe + swappable RAM and disks)
I love Pis, but if you are serious about a home server set up, old ex lease desktops is the way to go
I treat my Pis as disposable playgrounds or as IoT or single purpose computers
And use the desktops for stuff like running the 3D printer, plex, long running applications, monitoring, etc.
In NZ you can actually get them cheaper than a Pi
Since Pis are super marked up there
 
hmm... now I have doubts
 
Why have doubts when you have money
Just get both
They're cheap
 
except 1 small little detail, I'm sacrificing my sunday at home looking for the best deals, because I don't have that kind of disposable money to throw away XD
 
I'm talking about stuff like this
I mean, I'd get the Pis anyways
They're great
But a home server never hurt anyone
 
Alright, I'm gonna invest the next hour of my life benchmarking both approaches.. XD
 
3:50 PM
That's the spirit :D
 
mr5
4:14 PM
o/
I didn't know AS debug button is replaceable by other Gradle commands
and it's just a matter of double-clicking a label from Gradle tab
how do I restore it back?
 
posted on July 05, 2020

Android Weekly #421 #outlook a{ padding:0; } body{ width:100% !important; margin:0; padding:0; } body *{ -ms-text-size-adjust:none!important; -webkit-text-size-adjust:none!important; } body,.wrapper{ background:#ffffff; color:#505050; font-family:Arial, sans-serif; font-size:12px; } table,table td{ border-collapse:c

 
o/
 
\o
Mr mime!
 
@Mehdi What's the verdict looking like?
@MwBakker How's your thesis?
 
not yet, looking at the additional costs I'll have with the Pi, cluster case with fans and heatsinks, sd cards etc XD
 
4:29 PM
@Mauker How's life being grounded after playing with knives?
 
Sad :(
 
Yeah, the Pi overheads add up real quick as soon as you try to use it as an actual computer/IoT base
 
@Mehdi What about network boot to avoid SDs?
 
@RaghavSood working on it, not finished yet but thanks for asking
 
mr5
@Mauker o/
 
4:33 PM
\o
 
mr5
invalidate caches and restart did the trick.
this AS is sooo...
 
@MwBakker When's the defense?
@mr5 So AS? :D
 
@Mauker the idea is to have an actual cluster, so nodes should have both local and a distributed storage
 
mr5
it's sooo ...you know... crap :D
 
@Mauker I already had that. 7/10
 
4:34 PM
i haven't done android in a while, but I can't not open AS and update it with whatever is new even though I have no idea what's new :D
 
 
2 hours later…
6:09 PM
@MwBakker Ohhh, what's left to do?
 
The thesis paper, I had to work on improvement of that paper so I did and delivered it. Then they told me "it misses the description of the project, which is a separated small paper so now we will not check it and give you feedback but tell you it's not good enough"
 
I see
Here I had to finish that one first
Soon enough you'll be done with it 😀 Trust yourself
oh, gotcha
 
@Mauker here too, it had the content but the storyline and some stuff wasn't good enough yet
So this is my second chance on my thesis but since I have no feedback I'm quite scared
 
they asked for improvements and corrections
 
Yes
 
6:12 PM
You can do it
 
Thank you, but I will let an extra party check this thesis before I deliver it just to be sure
 
That's a good idea
 
This extra party costs me 500 euro just for providing me feedback the school didnt do cause I missed a small document (which they already had in possession but oh well)
 
I had mine reviewed prior to the defense as well
oh.
ouch.
That's a lot of money here
 
500 euro meant for vacation or my car
That is a lot here too
 
6:14 PM
3K BLR
minimum wage is 1,1K BLR
 
But 500 euro is nothing compared to doing another 6 months of internship
Cause here failure of thesis document means doing an entire new internship just for the heck of it
 
shit.
That's harsh
 
Despite having a positive grade on defense and general performed work at the project
 
I mean, it's kind of worse here
 
How so?
 
6:15 PM
If I happened to fail my defense, I would have to repeat everything again
2 years
buuut
I could shorten that out
but I would need at least another year
 
ough
I dk what happens here if I fail my defense, if I get a re do or such
But I passed it, and I also passed the general research and development processes which is 60% of the total grade
But the thesis, despite being 40% of the total grade does need to be a positive grade nevertheless
 
What's your line of research?
 
@Mauker what do you mean?
 
What are you working with?
What is it about
 
6:55 PM
@KotlinIsland why does your site have a crypto miner?
oh its blogspot
 
lol
does it really?
 
firefox says so
 
gasp
 
 
How could you?
That's probably Raghav's fault
 
7:02 PM
definitely
 
7:18 PM
wow
yes I have a cryptominer on my website
but what's wrong with cryptominers ? :) That is a way of monetizing :)
I'm going to remove it now
 
That's a way of increasing my energy bill
 
I've removed the cryptominer, can you try again please ?
 
perfect, i dont see any now
 
Yeah ! thanks
I think that I lose a lot of visits with cryptominers
 
yup
I don't think they're a good way of monetizing
 
7:27 PM
if its light, i'd prefer it to ads
 
it usually isn't
 
Yes but on android devices that can hang the browser
 
@Jbis I trust you people not to vote Kanye West in office, right? the world is already a mess right now
 
@Mehdi
 
hahaha sorry for the double ping :D
 
7:30 PM
Kanye West for president ?
 
Kanye West has basically 0 chance of winning
 
Even if that's the case, I'm worried he hurts Biden's campaign
 
i'm not gonna explain right now all the reasons for that. It doesn't matter if he was the most loved person in the US, he would still most likely loose. He started way too late.
Thats more realistic. Any vote for Kanye is a vote for trump.
However, I think its mostly a joke.
 
I certainly hope so. But given his messed up persona, I'm not sure it is.
 
In France there is an humorist that wants to be president
 
7:35 PM
humorist == comedian?
 
yes kind of
a comedian that make one man show
His name is Jean Marie Bigard
 
@Mehdi I'm getting concerned by how much elections are becoming a joke.
in the US at least
 
if we were to believe the predictions of some journalists about what could happen in the next ones, it is indeed scary
 
anyone have a second to test something out and have node installed?
 
7:55 PM
ollo!
anyone home?
 
i am o/
 
how are you mate
 
alive
 
uhhh.... are you one of those 'type' of people?
 
The alive type? Yeah, theres much more of the other kind. We're a minority.
 
7:59 PM
yeah, many dead
 
8:12 PM
is this a good place for career questions?
 
8:24 PM
shoot
 
summary - I am a 26 year old developer in UK. I've packed up to 1-2 years of commercial experience in Java while having 3 years of personal experience in Java, Android, JS, HTML. I've just started a new job as a software engineer which I don't enjoy much (maybe because it's a new job, big learning curve and working from home...).

During this lockdown, I had good time to take steps back and rethink what I want to do in near future. I came to the decision of flying solo. I now have the urge of going solo and become self employed but don't know what to do. Self employment is something I desir
 
There are some sites where you can find freelance gigs
That's a start
 
just so my understanding is clear on FreeLance
I create my own company abc, I get an office and now trying to find clients who want something built. Is this simply what freelance is?
 
8:41 PM
Not necessarily
You can be a freelancer without your own company
 
but if you own a company and now are creating software for clients, this is still classified as freelance? Or is there another term for it?
 
helloo
is dave here?
 
Good question
I mean, if you're solo I could say you're still a freelancer, but in a B2B model
 
ah yes, that makes more sense
might be a vague question but I still want to ask
What do you think of the success rate of this sort of business? Considering the competition?
 
9:01 PM
@Nero +1
you can check out reddit startups, entrepreneur
https://www.reddit.com/r/Entrepreneur/
https://www.reddit.com/r/startups/
 
thanks man!
 
no problem
I'm also interested in that so if you read/find something interesting @ me :D
 
you got discord?
I am usually interactive on discord
 
yes
are you in r15 on discord?
 
r15?
that's the first time I heard this - msg me direct on:
Left eye vs Right eye#6898
 
9:07 PM
Room 15
 
yeah I thought that's what he meant but not sure if that exists on discord
 
yep
Jul 1 '19 at 13:13, by Tim Castelijns
@MarkO'Sullivan bro I'm no discord nerd but I made a server for when the apocalypse happens https://discord.gg/qxe6dEk
 
9:24 PM
 

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