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10:00
life becomes more complicated. :)
@SargeBorsch JS != TS != JSX, althought they are related
their syntax and semantics is very differnt
but in the end this pre-dart code is format-wise and semantics wise just react native that compiles diferently.
hmm I only have seen the first two
stenciljs.com is built on JSX
react native uses regular javascript though?
nope, JSX too
well, atleast the components
in the end eveyrthing is compiled to ES6 compliant JS
so you can write whatever you want
10:04
interesting shit
but to write components you used to have to learn JSX
as per docs ( facebook.github.io/react-native/docs/state.html ) RN is full JSX now
> (Dev asking to separate flutter code from UX) (3) notice that the switching between markup and programming is easily detected (in react native).

(Flutter dev) Why is that desireable? I mean, why would any of this count as "programming"? It's all just expressions.
user443346
Why does shitty Android never do what I want? I pass some data from onActivityResult to my fragment. This worked like 1.5 months ago, didn't change anything yet it doesn't work today. I'd called super.onActivityResult(requestCode, resultCode, intent); in the calling Activity. What do I miss?
@RaghavSood hiyaaaaa
hi all o/
10:10
@AwaisShaikh You need at least 80 rep to get access here
Dw Raghav, you might not be ready to pay me but I'm still not ready to fully use Flutter just yet
:(
user443346
Raghav, show us why you're the ultimate code fixing robot
@M.Nabeel Welcome! Please read, confirm reading, and follow the room rules before you do anything else: room-15.github.io
@Jordy Wat
I dunno, mate
I'm struggling to tell what my own code does
Did you not write comments? :D
I did, but the backend APIs changed
So they no longer make sense
10:18
That happened me a good couple of times so I try and comment my code more
shiiiiit
AAA
AAA
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/49083594/how-to-implement-recyclerview-scrolllistener-inside-a-nestedscrollview
can anyone help me on this please
damn inconsiderate back end devs
@MuhammadSufiyan Welcome! Please read, confirm reading, and follow the room rules before you do anything else: room-15.github.io
did you not notice that 4:2.9 ratio?
1.04 vs 1.33
Checks out
10:22
the golden thread of what's wrong in Flutter
TLDR: it's everything in JSX that's good, without the declarative xml syntax that makes it perfect.
and that makes it hard to adopt for anyone coming from other languages, specially those that don't build the UI declaratively as per se, ( android, react native, angular, ios )
@MarkO'Sullivan whatcha think
10:38
sup mark and tim
@CptEric so you don't like the layout of code in Flutter?
Hi CF
layout and code mixed is the worst when your interfaces are complex and client oriented
which is the exact reason flutter was born, to provide client oriented interfaces hybridly.
RN does it the same way
it's just a different style to get used to
@CptEric wrong?
RN can truly separate ux and code programming / scripting / design thanks to jsx, but lets you to opt out and do all in a block
wrong is a strong word. "unstandard" fits better.
10:42
separating UI and "code" doesn't require using different syntax for the sake of being different.
adds to code readability.
just like the swiss flag, it's a big plus.
shoving XML right into the language grammar doesn't add readability nor anything else
everything-is-an-object isn't great either.
I'm not overly experienced in the different architecture but I know there's about 3 different ways you can do Flutter projects, Flutter Redux is one, can't remember the other two but I've seen a guy called Brian Egan who has published examples on his GitHub
I never looked into it but been meaning to
was it really necessary to do object centering via classes too? would a @Centered annotation suffice? dunno. it's just my honest opinion.
looking at the default sample snippets i see a lot of bloated code, if i tried to turn any of our app's interfaces to flutter it might hit the 1.5K count whereas now it's <100 XML and <400 code
plus a hell of nested stuff
that isn't really readable at all
10:46
Idk some projects seem to have less code and less files, for example: medium.com/@chemamolins/…
7 levels indentation just in each image container
sup nerds
and that's without counting the ontap event
o/ Murat
not saying it's bad, or "wrong" in the literal sense
just that it's dense and unfriendly, not easily readable or to review.
10:50
how exactly adding XML tags to the language will reduce that?
clearly separating logic from design is a good start at making something more readable or debugable without even compiling it.
so you can't separate it without mangling the language grammar?
a button doesn't work -> head to latest commit, <Button> has no (onTap)="" method.
wait aren't you coding in jsx?
right now i'm back at kotlin thank god
but no i'm at TS + angular when i do hybrid. i do like JSX when it's fully deployed tho
10:52
i actually like jsx, put them design and code into one file
but it gives the option to separate it too wich is fine
you can create UX templates and reuse them
or generate components
@CptEric this can be done in any language
What do you call the render method. It's basically design/layout + code logic in one file
@SargeBorsch yup. the point is flutter doesn't do it.
eveyrthing is so tightly coupled as per examples, i just see a mess to debug, test or reprocess after a long time.
I'm sure it isn't the only way to do things. Didn't try yet but maybe I will.
10:57
and the repos that show how to decouple it just obscure it a little more, not atually helping
i have jsut tried the official demos, there might be more ways ofc
also guys
I hyped the new league in path of exile last friday
well I could not play it :/
everything could be built using CSV files in the end, and an expert on CSV would be happy to do so. but that doesn't mean it's readable or interoperable
i can't send our ios intern to debug a flutter app for example, he'll probably kill himself in the process
but i can send him to a kotlin or ionic project and he'll just have the basic first-30-min-ever noob questions
"how do i compile | how do i debug | how do i launch a new view | why is my variable not binding"
Anyone want to read through my first draft of my swipeable recyclerview item blog post? Missing code links atm but basically all the content is there I think
shoot me at fb
11:00
i'd like to prove you wrong by creating a really readable example. but I am too busy playing bass guitar right now, so maybe later.
in the end, it's all about readability, interoperatibity and resuability. :D
Scenario: User clicks in Activity A. Activity B opens to confirm the action via fingerprint. Activity C is launchable from B to confirm action via PIN
lol neat.
@MarkO'Sullivan same as eric
i mean, why is it body = new Center( { stuff } )
why can't it be
11:01
Depending on if the user uses Fingerprint or PIN, a true/false return value must reach Activity A
Is chaining startActivityForResult my best option?
new Body( {
@Centered
new Button({
})
}
I have read and understood the rules
@ColdFire ping me on Facebook and I'll send it to you
that single change makes it ages more readable
i tested it by calling our three interns
why not new Body({ centered(new Button(…)) })
11:02
annotations give attributed feeling
@SargeBorsch you looking into flutter too?
the button is centered, not in a center.
it's semantics
I think I am gonna try it soon
human readable code is a must :D
If I don't find any better things to do.
A new cool sauce from google must be cool I guess
11:03
else we'd all be using RxLolcat
> HAI
CAN HAS STDIO?
I HAS A VAR
IM IN YR LOOP
UP VAR!!1
VISIBLE VAR
IZ VAR BIGGER THAN 10? KTHX
IM OUTTA YR LOOP
KTHXBYE
@RaghavSood yup, but I would only have one Activity with both options fingerprint and pin
@SargeBorsch chat room for Flutter if anyone is interested in getting started with it sometime soon: gitter.im/flutter/flutter
3
starring that for self need
That's not an option since each activity also handles a bunch of different stuff, so combining them leads to a mess
Guess chaining is good enough
@M.Nabeel access revoked for failing to read the rules
Please come back after at least 24 hours
i really want to get into flutter. but me needs readability and interoperability. we're working on 3 projects at each time, each dev. need to be able to jump on any other project anytime and understand it
11:05
@CptEric there's Flutter devs in there who you could get talking to
right now the examples are way too estoeric :D
They're pretty active on GitHub too, the product owner got back to me about my idea before I made that launcher icon package
will do
launcher icon image?
what idea'
well I helped make it, came up with the idea someone else started it and then I just contributed to it
it's finicky changing the launcher icons
Soooo I helped make a package to make it quicker
> <ion-nav [root]="rootPage" #content swipeBackEnabled="false"></ion-nav>
example of ionic's nav element ( where activites are displayed)
ooh neat
you'll be famous in no time :D
@ Sarge, it's like the Child or children thing. an annotation would easily suffice and make it easier to read
worst case scenario, someone will think your code has been abducted by SQUARE
best case scenario, your objects now have decloupled parametrized features and their code can be left to important logic.
sorry wrong chat...
example 1:
flutter object
Potato({ width: 400.0,onTap: ({}) }).
flutter annotated:
@Width: 400.0
Potato(onTap({}))
flutter eric annotated system:
@Style : 'potato-template.fds'
Potato(ontap( event => {}))
very simplist example, not compilable :D
@MurtazaKhursheedHussain Welcome! Please read, confirm reading, and follow the room rules before you do anything else: room-15.github.io
11:14
and fds be css / code object / wathever
Post to the flutter chat, i'm not experienced enough to agree / disagree with you
what does your dev senses tell you
it's too similar to Java annotations
is that wrong?
i mean, it's supposed to drag both mobile & native devs
@RaghavSood thanks
11:16
this could be just fine with fewer kinds of syntactic elements
and the '.fds' part is completely unnecessary
I have read and understood the rules
yeah sarge, indeed.
welcome all new guys who read the rules
4
> cannot find symbol method metafactory
the point would be to focus more on logic and less on design atleast
11:18
anyone seen that error with AS 3.1.0-beta4?
you code on betas?
:D
Used to use canary builds
but no, haven't found that bug
11:19
though I have a stable version in case things go south
true alphas use only alpha software
6
I like your attitude Mark
@MuratK. what attitude? :D
11:25
Coding for production on beta software
btw I used to do that aswell
with the canary build
worst decision ever
same :D
but it was satisfying to see an enhanced AS
same, AS 3 hype
@MuratK. yeah that's backfired a couple times for me where I had to go back to stable because canary was fucked
I gave up on the beta issue I was having so back to 3.0.1 for me
The annoying part is that you have to keep two separate installations
Will wait for another update and give it a blast then
Yeah but if you have a lot of storage it's not so bad
( i don't :( )
11:28
i have 60gb filled by xcodes, another AS doesn't make a difference
Xcode is the devil
ik
ikr
Where is eski
i have to have a xcode 7, a xcode 8 and a xcode 9
whyyyyyy
@eski
11:30
bc ios 9 or < projects dun't run on 8, and ios 9.3 or swift 2 < don't run on 9.
@MuratK. is seeking you @eski
easy fix for that Eric
drop the projects? ikr but when i say that everyone looks at me badly.
just drop support for older versions, just say Apple doesn't want to help them anymore
drop iOS, problem solved
^ or that
11:34
client drops 15k we want the app to keep working as intended.
whad do you do?
not a real amount but an example of what could happen
I bet it's not like you enjoy developing for iOS that much
life is too short for doing stuff you don't like
ha. no, i dont.
but someone's gotta do it.
Life is also too short to be poor, though
3
atleast i don't do obj-c
11:35
29 mins ago, by Raghav Sood
@M.Nabeel access revoked for failing to read the rules
plus raghav's point.
why? it's apple's problem if nobody wants their system
29 mins ago, by Raghav Sood
Please come back after at least 24 hours
true but, in the end, if the client wants it apple, and we've offered it before, dropping now seems odd
what we do now is new ios apps are all hybrid
ionic 3
@RaghavSood it depends who we call poor. I could easily get money with android as well. and if we talk about yachts and stuff, then the people who get them are not those who actually code everything but those who hire people to code
11:36
no xcode issues with ionic because i jsut use it to archive
so it's not like simply switching to iOS will make you rich
and btw life is not only about money
no but if we get a nK$ project for ios and android, and just offer android, it's nK$/2
and less time, maybe even more than 2x faster
less cash = less profit, less profit = less raise for eric
less raise for eric = less cash to pay rent
we just started a subscription based product so client's don't fall behind on payments
@M.Nabeel No. See above.
11:38
that's why it's better to own a house
no need to pay rent then
you gotta pay the mortgage, and the moment you buy it it loses value
just like a car
not worth it.
unless
it's a benz
rent with purchase option and first-offer is the best option
Is it wrong to answer a question on SO, with the correct code not based on OPs code (to avoid having to read a wall of code)?
11:39
they should not post walls of code to begin with
sure, go ahead mehdi
what sarge says. go for it
and if that answers the question fine, then it's certainly not wrong
Okay, Thanks! (y)
@SargeBorsch Sure. However, most people don't work jobs to buy yachts. They work them to eat, have a place to stay, and lead a comfortable life. Moreover, most people don't end up in jobs they love doing. Sure, we all like coding, but sometimes, maybe more often than not, we have to write code we don't particularly care for. But that's the job, and it's difficult to change to one where you're always writing what you want. [cont.]
[cont.]Most people can't afford the downtime either to easily pick up skillsets to have a higher chance of getting such a job, so they do it slowly, and eventually move into it years later.
So knocking on iOS or web or PHP or any dev for that matter from a job perspective makes little sense
Sure, knocking on the tech itself can be legitimate
But if someone is paying me a large enough amount to build stuff for Windows ME, I'm not gonna turn that down cause Windows ME sucks and is no longer supported and all that
11:43
I meant that if one doesn't really like iOS and can earn money by other means, then it's not necessary to bother with iOS.
of course in other cases it could be necessary…
the can is the point there, sometimes it's not a choice
i got hired 4 years ago as android dev and now i do almost everything in the world of mobile dev
and some backend python and node stuff
That's the thing though. If your background is mobile dev, it's not easy to find a job where you can start at a similar position, get paid a similar amount, have a similar level of seniority, and never touch mobile dev. You are a mobile dev, so most movement you can easily make in the industry is in the same field
Sure, you can spend time to learn web dev or sysadmin or whatever
But for most people, they can't really dedicate a lot of time to the side efforts
So it takes time to reach a level where you're good enough to actually move to an equal job in a separate area
Plus, you might be working as a dev, and have to do iOS as part of your responsibilities.
It might amount to only 30% of your workload, but it'd be foolish to quit over the fact that you don't like iOS
Like I said, it's very rare to be able to cherry pick exactly what you want to do
There's a huge amount of experience in a large amount of different areas required to be in a position to realistically achieve that at a rate where you can comfortably say "Yeah, I can cherry pick and still make enough money to live the way I want"
Otherwise, you'll end up with sporadic work, paying varying amounts, which makes it pretty difficult to live a stable life, or even to focus on a given area and then move into a proper job for it
yeah, that.
i feel stupid commeting with just two words but i couldn't agree more
You want to leave mobile dev?
I already did, largely
11:55
No no I'm talking about Eric
This is likely my last pro work unless something major happens
Why did you leave mobile dev @RaghavSood?
Ah lol
lose interest?
Android has little future in the long run, it's already over saturated
And I've had the last 2 years with tons of free time to actually explore
11:56
Mobile dev doesn't seem like it's going away any time soon, why do you say that?
@M.Nabeel Congratulations! Banned.
:D
@MarkO'Sullivan no, i like it. i jsut wish i had to deal less with ios, in eveyr possible way. the market share is small enough in spain, but most of our clients are iphone-user snobs so it's not an option.
Could your employer hire an iOS dev instead?
I'm sure it'll be around, but I find it to be fairly run of the mill at this point, and there are enough qualified people that it's difficult to stand out without turning into Jake Wharton etc. There's many more fields where I think specializing has a lot better prospects than sticking to mobile dev.
11:57
AI / machine learning one I guess?
Blockchain/architecturing larger systems/designing large scale projects/crypto in general/sysadmin/devops
^ this is true

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