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2:00 AM
@jpmc26 I've answered you repeatedly and you're not getting plain language, so please hush and listen to the story & maybe you'll finally understand where all this stuff you keep quoting at me comes from.
Wait, quick question: @jpmc26, you ever heard of paradigmatic law?
'cause... That would make this a bit easier
 
user4639281
@Shog9 You haven't answered plainly, you've answered mostly with misdirection and nonsense
 
I don't see how it matters where it comes from. It says what it says. Am I actually wrong about the attitude that it advocates for?
 
@TinyGiant oh, hush. You straight-up refused to read the message you were complaining about earlier, so I'm done with you.
You lied about what I said, to you.
That's pretty crappy, @Tiny
 
user764357
@Shog9 you didn't answer me
 
It was pinned to the screen while you did it
 
user4639281
2:01 AM
I didn't lie, you just didn't like my interpretation of it.
 
user764357
But, continue the story.
 
A simple yes or no to my above question is strongly preferred.
 
no, hold on, I need to suspend Tiny for a bit, since he straight-up lied to my face about what I said, while it was pinned to the screen, and now he's pretending that didn't happen a few hours ago. He needs some time to read more and talk less.
three hours, that should be enough to read the past 20 minutes worth of conversation so that I don't have to repeat everything five times.
 
sheesh
 
I can hold on, but I'm not sure if the "no" was directed at my question or was just a random "no" in front of that message. (Or I guess it could've been directed at Tiny.)
 
2:03 AM
Moving on... What did I miss of yours, @LegoStormtroopr?
 
I'd say random no
 
@jpmc26 that was at Lego, since I didn't want him to think I was ignoring him intentionally
 
@Shog9 I think it would've been easier for you to use the "ignore this user everywhere" button. This whole controversy stems in the company using brute force against the community, and while Tiny can be very stubborn, he wasn't causing any harm here
 
What'd you ask, @Lego? I answered the "ideologies" thing.
 
I know you two have a bit of a history, but I still thought I'd put this out there
 
2:05 AM
@AndrasDeak Look, I can just leave. @jpmc26 pinged me, so I'm here responding, and Tiny kept interrupting, but it's not actually necessary that I be here.
 
user764357
I'd like to know which ideologies (or actions) I can safely attack, without being offensive.
 
by all means, please continue
 
user764357
Because I know I can say "Trump is immoral and unAmerican" and I can certainly say "Rebulicans are immoral and unAmerican"
 
user764357
Can I say "Hillary is immoral and unAmerican"?
 
@LegoStormtroopr good grief, do not attack ideologies. Attack ideas, policies, behaviors, rich chocolate cakes...
 
2:06 AM
@LegoStormtroopr You're not helping right now. =/ Could I ask you to back off for a couple minutes?
 
user6820627
can you tell me what's happening? President Trump has banned immigration from 7 countries? so how will that affect SO?
 
user764357
Ok, so Trumps Executive order is unAmerican is ok?
 
user764357
Is it ok to say "Islam honor killing are unAmerican" without that being offensive to people
 
@LearnHowToBeTransparent start here :P
 
Ok, so... I'm gonna go back to this story, because I feel like I'm kinda dancing around the history of this without actually telling it.
 
2:07 AM
I want to hear the story.
 
user764357
Fire away
 
user6820627
@AndrasDeak OK. i'll read the starboard
 
Right. So, there's this former-mod, who's hanging out in a chatroom with a bunch of other people. Lots of diverse political beliefs and philosophies in play here.
 
I'd still rather get a yes or no to my question, but I'll repeat it after you're done.
 
And, so they have these periodic conversations that verge into politics, mostly based on current news and such
Pretty standard scenario
And one day... The topic turns to abortion.
Now, for those of you who don't live in the US or other similar places, abortion is one of those topics that is super divisive
 
user764357
2:10 AM
ooooh... listening. this should be good.
 
Whoooole bunch of folks who think it's like a basic human right that a woman can choose to abort a pregnancy
 
user6820627
@Shog9 are there flags here?
 
Whooole bunch of folks who think it's straight-up murder outside of extenuating circumstances
 
@LearnHowToBeTransparent yes
 
Veeerrry little common ground between the two groups
 
user764357
2:11 AM
Both have valid rationales.
 
Right. So, as expected, one side (the former mod) says something along the lines of "basic human right"
and one side (someone else) says something along the lines of "murder"
 
("basic human right" a phrase that keeps getting repeated and debated as incorrect here, I might add.)
 
And... The former mod immediately flips out and starts flagging the other person.
while yelling about how crappy Americans are and so on
Now...
THAT is how you have a political discussion without respecting the other side.
That's what got me thinking (and writing) about all this stuff
 
user764357
FYI - the post has been unilaterally locked again by an SO employee.
 
I don't understand how a worse situation invalidates the fact that Joel's post violates the policy.
 
2:14 AM
meh
 
@jpmc26 do you understand how it was worse?
 
the story turned out to be a damp squib:P
 
Rob
@Shog9 Out of curiosity, is there a meta post about that whole situation? Or are such matters handled internally?
Haven't been able to find anything about that
 
@Rob eh, there's discussion of it on a meta, but I'm not gonna reveal the folks involved by linking to it here
 
I understand that a lot more disrespect was shown, in both deed and word.
 
user764357
2:15 AM
Ok, so back to my question.
 
That doesn't mean that disrespect wasn't shown here.
14 mins ago, by jpmc26
I don't see how it matters where it comes from. It says what it says. Am I actually wrong about the attitude that it advocates for?
 
user764357
Can I say "abortion is immoral, unconstitutional, and fundamentally un-American"?
 
@LegoStormtroopr sure
I mean, if that's... Relevant to something
 
Can he do it in a Meta.SO post? (...sorry. I keep assuming you're a he, Lego. That might be wrong.)
 
@jpmc26 HA! Well, that brings us to what I (personally) think is the critical question here:
 
user6820627
2:16 AM
@LegoStormtroopr go to amnesty international?
 
is this relevant to stack overflow?
 
good question
 
It's relevant. Abortion has killed millions of potential programmers.
2
 
I've heard that question asked a lot in the last 2 days
 
I think the future births of people who might participate in SO are relevant, as are the people who would have more time to participate by having an abortion.
 
2:17 AM
All this discussion about rudeness, about CEO privilege, about diamond-reopening... has, I think, obscured the more important question: does this topic have anything to do with Stack Overflow?
 
You can make a case anything is relevant because it affects people.
 
Obviously, Joel thinks it does.
 
@Shog9 obviously
 
What?
 
Can I make a post about what we should do to avoid dying in car accidents? Many programmers also die due to automobile related accidents?
 
2:18 AM
we can only assume what he thinks, because he hasn't responded anything after handing us His Scripture
 
How is whether it's relevant more important than whether it insults people?
I mean, I can't make an insulting post about JavaScript on SO even though it's relevant, right?
 
@Shog9 yeah but he hasn't backed that up..
 
@jpmc26 it's insulting because you disagree with it. That's... Pretty much true of everyone every day somewhere. That's why folks get all bothered when someone downvotes their answer. It's not actually a problem.
4
 
I didn't even have an opinion on the order when I came to this post. I still don't.
 
I don't think it really has anything to do with SO. His connection is weak. I don't really care that it was off topic (even for Meta). It's not a common occurrence (I think?).
 
2:19 AM
The only thing I have a strong opinion on is the Be Nice policy.
 
user764357
Can I make a post about how unchecked immigration drives down wages (including for programmers)?
 
I could personally even live with the off-topicness, if the post were polite.
 
@Seth he presented his rationale. If you find it weak, it should be easy enough to rebut (and a few people have done this already, although their arguments are buried in "all politics are off-topic" discussions so they're a bit less punchy than they should be)
 
The thing that concerns me about the post is that Joel feels he can use "extenuating circumstances" to bypass the usual rules, only to complain about someone else doing just that.
2
 
Does Joel realize the hit to the economy by all these programmers talking about this instead of working?
 
2:20 AM
@Seth well, to be fair, Joel can pretty much flaunt whatever rules he wants. If there's a Ring 0 user on SO, it's Joel. Doesn't mean there won't be consequences, but... Those are boring.
3
 
I have 0 problem with the post otherwise. It'd be perfectly fine with it if it was on the blog. Or some discourse site. or something.
 
Ah so that's the real answer
 
@Shog9 a lot of people seem to have a huge problem with that.
 
38 secs ago, by Shog9
@Seth well, to be fair, Joel can pretty much flaunt whatever rules he wants. If there's a Ring 0 user on SO, it's Joel. Doesn't mean there won't be consequences, but... Those are boring.
 
Could you pin that perhaps, to make it more obvious?
 
2:21 AM
"Rules for thee, not for me."
 
hang on a sec here.
 
@Shog9 totally true, but it undermines the community he says he supports.
 
So @Shog9, you're admitting we're right? That this is just because it's Joel?
 
But I guess that's his prerogative.
 
and that this would not be tolerated from any other user?
 
2:22 AM
@jpmc26 now, now, be careful what you ask for. What if Shog did the same?
 
@jpmc26 pretty sure that's a given. Which ties back into my concerns:
 
or any other core staff
 
2 mins ago, by Seth
The thing that concerns me about the post is that Joel feels he can use "extenuating circumstances" to bypass the usual rules, only to complain about someone else doing just that.
 
@AndrasDeak ok, so... At risk of going off on another tangent... You realize that Stack Overflow's scale now means that "a lot of people" disagreeing with something is more activity than meta gets on its hottest day?
 
It's not like we're regularly subjected to Joel's random thoughts...
 
2:22 AM
The licensing thing. Y'all remember that? THAT was "a lot of people"
This is... a tempest in a teapot
or maybe a teacup
Big issue, small drama
 
Okay? We'll try harder:P
 
You want big drama, you hit folks' livelihoods
 
If I were to make a similar post it would be deleted immediately without discussion and I think that should be reason enough to delete it
 
Licensing is the red-hot iron here
 
Of course it is, because everyone feels comfortable opposing it.
 
user764357
2:23 AM
Thats the problem, you dont understand that this already hits peoples livelihoods
 
I didn't have any strong preconceptions regarding the meta post when I read it, I'm only looking at responses.
 
How many users read Joel's post and just walked away because they knew they wouldn't be heard?
How many of us begging for site policy to be enforced have been actively ignored?
 
@jpmc26 or just grunt and close the tab
 
Does Joel really believe that polite discourse is ineffective? If he doesn't believe it's effective, why is it in our policies?
 
user764357
@Shog9 Thats the problem, you dont understand that this already hits peoples livelihoods
 
2:25 AM
do you see where this, "do as I say, not as I do" kind of junk leads?
all it does is alienate users.
heck, it has alienated users who agree politically with it!
why is this a good thing?
 
What is so 'impolite' about it?
 
@Shog9 maybe our perspectives are different, but the vast majority of feedback I see on the meta post says "OK, you're right, but this doesn't belong here".
 
I didn't read the original, if it is edited..
 
@Luggage meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/342539/… I'm gonna go cry at having to explain this so much.
 
user6820627
Why dont Joel make a chatroom in the 1st place?
 
2:27 AM
@LegoStormtroopr hits some folks' livelihoods. I mean, if you can't get into the country to show up at work, you're probably gonna have a bad time. But... I don't think that's what you're arguing for.
 
@Shog9 It's also funny that the burden of proof is on us to prove the post is off-topic. In any other case when a bunch of high-rep users vote to close as off-topic, the burden-of-proof is on the user to prove that the post is on-topic.
 
@stiemannkj1 who sez it's on you?
 
@Shog9 And what about the people who are worried about dying because some extremist blows up their office? Do those people deserve respect?
 
@LearnHowToBeTransparent Joel gave us the initial post, and that's it
 
I'm bored discussing these meta-meta topics, so I want to talk about whether this specific issue is on-topic, but... I mean... Y'all don't have to.
 
user764357
2:28 AM
@Shog9 No, I'm arguing that until recently in the tech community it has been forbidden to express any right-wing or even moderate left wing leanings.
 
@jpmc26 You mean like... Extremists from Pakistan? How about UAE?
 
I keep hearing the same two things from you that I've heard from the mods: "the issue is serious" and "Joel can do what he wants."
 
@stiemannkj1 are you Seth now?
 
neither of those has anything to do with respecting other people's opinions
so either you're saying, "You're right, jpmc1126, and we don't give a darn," or you're just not understanding me. Which is it?
 
2:29 AM
@Shog9 Who is Seth?
 
@jpmc26 sigh...
 
@jpmc26 I disagree, "do what he wants" includes disrespecting others. Just to be clear:P
 
@stiemannkj1 the guy I was replying to when I said that
 
@Shog9 Do you agree that people in positions of power should behave in an exemplary manner?
 
@AndrasDeak I'm not saying it's a good idea, or that he'd be supported in it, but, I mean... In theory...
 
2:30 AM
I still don't find it "impolite". Your standards are such that anything unfavorable to say about someone is impolite, even if true. If I tell another programmer (in a comment/chat) that I find his code unreadable, that isn't automatically impolite.
5
 
@jpmc26 well, for CEO's to publicly voice against this seems to be a pretty good example.
 
Rob
@Luggage Though if you said the implementation was stupid, one may take offense.
 
perhaps.
I'm not sure 'take offense' should be the definition, though.
 
@FélixGagnon-Grenier No, this is more comparable to all the inflammatory stuff people complain about Trump saying.
 
"I'm not saying you're stupid; it was only stupid of you to write this code."
 
2:32 AM
@jpmc26 don't do that. Again, you're finding it bothersome because it criticizes an idea you kinda like, in plain language. (or you just find it bothersome because you don't like unambiguous criticism, I don't know or care at this point)
But that's not a problem
 
Some implementations are, factually, stupid. A loop that is guaranteed to never reach the end is stupid, by definition.
 
Every. Single. Day. Folks leave Stack Overflow because they posted something and didn't get a pat on the head for it.
Criticism isn't our boogieman here
 
but that's a stretch. I wouldn't use 'stupid' becasue i know it's offensive..
 
@Shog9 I've told you time and time again I don't have a strong opinion on this issue. Why can't you take me at my word?
 
@jpmc26 because you keep ignoring mine?
 
2:33 AM
That isn't true. I've listened to stories. I've asked questions. I've begged for more straightforward answers.
 
Joel thinks banning legal residents because they were born in Yemen is Unamerican. I tend to agree with him. If you disagree that's cool too. Still doesn't make it rude.
 
If you want to challenge a premise I have, name the premise and challenge it.
I keep telling you what my premises are, too.
 
...
 
to try to get at the root of why we're not connecting here.
 
ok.
Let's back up a bit then.
 
2:34 AM
but most of my questions, you haven't even actually given an answer to.
 
user764357
@Shog9 90 day ban.
 
and I assure you, they are sincere questions. not loaded ones.
 
This is what I'm responding to:
2 hours ago, by jpmc26
@Shog9 Heck, the Be Nice policy literally says, "If you don't have time to say something politely, just leave it for someone who does." So rushing is no excuse.
 
user764357
@Shog9 I'm still waiting for a response to this
 
user764357
6 mins ago, by Lego Stormtroopr
@Shog9 No, I'm arguing that until recently in the tech community it has been forbidden to express any right-wing or even moderate left wing leanings.
 
2:35 AM
@jpmc26 I don't see it like that. The effect it have had, might be seen as the same, but the post itself? Totally not inflamatory, in essence.
 
Also, for the record, MAY YOU BURN IN THE PITS OF HELL, CHAT RATE-LIMITER
@LegoStormtroopr ...what?
 
@Shog9 oh, I keep thinking of you when I hit that; sorry :D
 
@LegoStormtroopr Please, I'm begging you, don't distract him for a few minutes while I talk to him.
 
Every. Single. Day. It makes my life miserable
If there weren't so many feature-requests on meta, that'd be top of my list to fix
aaaanyway...
1 min ago, by Shog9
2 hours ago, by jpmc26
@Shog9 Heck, the Be Nice policy literally says, "If you don't have time to say something politely, just leave it for someone who does." So rushing is no excuse.
That.
"Be nice" is rule #2
 
That was a response to you saying the post was rushed.
 
2:37 AM
@jpmc26 really?
uh... which message?
 
yes. if you go back up to the other one a moment before that one where I notified you, you'll see I linked a message of yours.
 
use that chat extension thingy...
 
2 hours ago, by jpmc26
@Shog9 http://chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/35411423#35411423 I'm sorry, but how does dividing the SO community by disrespecting an entire class of people with a different political view help us address any problem related to SO? Especially when SO is supposedly founded on not doing that to people?
that one?
 
yes. those two were meant to be a set.
 
hang on
 
2:38 AM
there might be a third one in there. I forget right now.
 
@jpmc26 install this:
59
Q: SE Chat Modifications -- Keyboard navigation and commands for chat

Tim Stone Screenshot Use /command shortcuts to perform common chat tasks: See message history inline: Easily preview replied-to messages: And much, much more... About Legends tell of a prolific Meta Stack Overflow chatter who despised using their mouse above all things. In an effort to keep t...

it's the shit
besides keyboard-replies, it ALSO allows you to hammer ctrl+space to keep retrying a message until it goes through because SCREW YOU CHAT RATE LIMITER
 
is that a GreaseMonkey or something? I don't generally use mods.
 
yup
 
userscripts are great
 
go ahead and read the source first if you're unsure
 
2:39 AM
it would be great if the "But Joel is dividing the community" folks were themselves advocating towards union, by not further inflamming all of this.
 
I apologize for the poor formatting, but it is there.
 
it's pretty great, I've been using it for years
 
@FélixGagnon-Grenier those guys seem to be saying "delete the post and let us discuss"
 
@jpmc26 I just didn't realize the two messages were connected
 
it's only inflammatory because the staff doesn't budge
 
2:40 AM
blame my slow typing and thinking, which makes me send messages that get interrupted by other users' messages.
 
@AndrasDeak cough
 
@AndrasDeak I honestly don't read it like that but.. if you say so. I've mainly read wild accusations of disrespect, finding oneself above the others, and other stuff like that..
 
present company excluded etc:P
 
We're not being led around by a nose ring, but we ain't exactly stationary
And just to set the record straight: Joel doesn't tell any of us what to post
 
@FélixGagnon-Grenier I'm not sure how you can call about 10 paragraphs of text full of quotes and citations explaining how it's disrespectful in the most polite tone I could manage "wild."
 
2:41 AM
or what to reopen, or what to vote on
I guess in theory he could, but I'll wager he'd have a lot fewer employees in short order
 
You can mildly disagree with Joel as freely as you like as long as users are closing and staff are reopening the post. It won't matter.
 
@jpmc26 you seem to be speaking of a specific post?
 
There was one VP once who told another programmer to take down his opinion... He got a LOT of crap for that and hasn't done it again.
 
But anyway, getting 4 AM here. Good time-of-day to you
 
@FélixGagnon-Grenier Yes, mine. didn't I link you? See the pinned question on the right about whether it adheres.
 
2:42 AM
cheers, @Andras
 
Ok, I know what you're actually talking about now @jpmc26
 
Can I cry now? Being constantly misunderstood makes me sad.
 
For anyone reading who didn't follow the links back, this is the context:
4 hours ago, by Shog9
Eventually, he decided that the most effective route would be a post on meta, a call to action focusing on how the policy endangered the very principles that we've tried to foster here, wrote something up quickly, got a couple of folks from the company to look it over, and posted it. This was all Saturday evening, unplanned and kind of rushed.
Now... you're quite right: that isn't an excuse for being rude.
Which is why, after talking to you the other night, I edited the post
I explicitly left the rest of the criticisms that did not strike me as pejorative
 
2:44 AM
@Shog9 Just wondering something. Did you read my answer in the "does it adhere to Be Nice"? I know I linked you.
 
@jpmc26 I wasn't exactly targeting you, in case I've had an impact on that sadness
 
In particular, I avoided doing as the previous two editors did (adding weasel words): it's got Joel's name below it, it's obvious it's Joel's opinions.
2
@jpmc26 I did
And... I respect your perspective on this, but I do not agree with it.
 
what part of my analysis do you disagree with?
 
user764357
@Shog9 Are you referring to my edit before it got locked?
 
I have made a couple of edits to that post since I linked you, but they don't fundamentally change anything.
 
2:46 AM
For a political message it was damn near flowery. But for a normal (on-topic) post, it would be rude as we don't normally have a reason to call each other "immoral".
 
@LegoStormtroopr what?
link please, I got too many tabs open to find anything anymore
 
> First: "It is immoral, unconstitutional, and fundamentally un-American." If you said this to someone you respect, especially without prior explanation, you've lost your temper over some disagreement.
 
@jpmc26 your entire rationale hinges on an interpretation of Joel's post that takes every word as applying to the reader
2
 
... actually, it's the other way around. you've completely kept your temper, and said so in a controlled way
 
2:48 AM
@Shog9 Isn't the reader exactly what the Be Nice policy emphasizes?
Treat the reader with respect. Treat this other person on the other end of the Internet with respect.
 
@LegoStormtroopr I wasn't, actually, but you did the same thing so... It still applies.
What was that joke about editing a wikipedia biography to add "allegedly" before everything? Like that.
 
But the message is about "President Trump’s executive order on immigration". IT is immoral (according to the post), not the reader or even Trump (though that is implied).
 
I'm not even sure who you would Be Nice to if not the people reading your posts.
 
@jpmc26 If I say "preventing the active user from closing your program is hostile to the user" and you interpret that as "Shog is calling me hostile!", please tell me you see the flaw in your interpretation?
 
If stating a view the reader disagrees with is not "being nice" then you'll have to poll your readers before-hand.
 
2:50 AM
I'm telling you, the kind gentle reader, that you should avoid being hostile to the user. NOT that you are an inherently hostile person who I despise and loathe.
 
No, because an experienced programmer who is fluent in English would understand the meaning of hostile in that context. They understand it's something of an "industry" term.
 
@jpmc26 ok. So... Do we have a language issue here?
 
let's try again.
 
You are trying real hard for first place in the oppression olympics.
 
"preventing the active user from closing your program is morally repugnant"
 
2:51 AM
@jpmc26 removing the first part of the opening sentence arguably changes the meaning.
 
@jpmc26 yep, yep
 
now... in all honesty, that's most likely to be interpretted as a joke.
 
BTW, I found myself (newly on Windows 10) unable to kill the Task Scheduler process earlier today. I have... Rather more unkind words to describe that.
 
but it obviously isn't a joke in Joel's post. so what if they meant it?
 
@jpmc26 I... wouldn't joke about such things
 
2:52 AM
@jpmc26 but you are presently defending to not interpret things to evaluate them. either we interpret things, as jokes, before judging, (as we should do with Joel's post) or we don't
 
let's try something a bit more... similar to Joel's post. hm.
 
I mean, I probably would, but only years later after everyone had come to an agreement that they'd never actually do them.
We're not quite there yet.
As evidenced by my experience earlier today.
 
but you can't go "I personally feel this as a joke, but that to be targetting the reader"
 
user6820627
I tried to neutralize the post for fun hastebin.com/eqorotarib.http
 
"ObamaCare is immoral, unconstitutional, and un-American."
 
2:54 AM
yeah, I got good friends who've said more or less just that
So?
 
that's actually pretty similar to Joel's post in terms of the actual issue.
 
I mean, I can kinda see it
 
It's something that Americans are deeply divided on, and that division is largely based on empahsizing different concerns.
Is it Nice to people who agree with ObamaCare?
 
ACA is well-intentioned, but kinda subverts our normal... Y'know, I'm gonna avoid that discussion here because I feel like I have enough spinning plates, but - I can see the argument.
 
user764357
has enough time passed for us to discuss this
 
2:55 AM
@jpmc26 It's definitely not Not Nice
 
@jpmc26 I don't think "niceness" comes into play
 
user764357
27 mins ago, by Lego Stormtroopr
@Shog9 No, I'm arguing that until recently in the tech community it has been forbidden to express any right-wing or even moderate left wing leanings.
 
How about if I add, "It's morally repugnant and plainly stupid"?
 
how is that "not nice"? I support the ACA (generally) but don't take that to be about ME at all.
 
@LegoStormtroopr yeah, I still don't quite get what you're saying there
 
2:56 AM
... still the same. we are speaking about the policy here
 
user764357
how so?
 
If you said "you are stupid if you like obamacare", then I would agree with you that it is "not nice".
 
@Shog9 You're not personally offended by it. Could you see other supporters of ObamaCare getting offended?
 
@LegoStormtroopr I have friends in tech who are very much... Well, I don't know if they'd self-describe as "right-wing", but they're definitely not liberal
"Libertarian" or "anarchist" maybe
They never shut up about it
 
How about this? Would you decline if I said that and someone flagged that message?
 
2:57 AM
being offended can't be the distinction. People can get offended by just having people make a statement they don't agree with, but that's not a real offense.
4
 
@jpmc26 as I said earlier, if you treat your Gov't policies the way folks from Green Bay treat The Packers, sure. But... Please, don't do that.
 
user764357
@Shog9 Folks do that already
 
yeah, I know, but it's a shitty test
and... Come on.
 
@Shog9 Would you delcine a flag on the message?
 
user764357
2:58 AM
I've already seen left leaning people defend the TPP because Trump cancelled it
 
If I were a mod, I certainly wouldn't decline a flag on that message.
 
We started down this road because folks were posting pictures of Hillary being killed and Trump with swastikas. That's pretty unambiguously aimed at causing offense.
 
user764357
I'm illustrating that people do treat politics as a team sport.
 
But... We don't have to make it into a slippery slope.
 
user764357
2:59 AM
Go Blue!! Booooo Red!!!
 
I think I follow you. what next?
 

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