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1:00 AM
That policy is good for the site, and it's something that Joel has said he believes in.
 
user2654834
Agreed, but the OP is way off those guidelines as I read them. It is significantly against them.
 
Why is it unreasonable to ask that the CEO, who believes in his company's policies, follow them when posting?
 
Yeah well that's a big thing. I've mentioned it before. Folks say it's open to discussion but the political climate in the US outside of SE pretty much closes that off. Plus opposition is necessarily offensive due to the nature of the topic. It's an awful "discussion" candidate for a non-debate forum. Speaking to Kim's earlier comment "there is also the question". Sorry slow replies on phone.
 
user4639281
And we all know that the site policy is always a best case scenario kind of thing, and there are extenuating circumstances that require putting the policy aside in this one case.
 
user2654834
this is a problem
 
user2654834
1:01 AM
why this one case?
 
it's also worth noting that of 27,343 meta.SO posts, only 2 have been "against site policy" controversially
 
@TinyGiant I don't see any extenuating circumstances that justify deriding an entire class of people based on their political beliefs. Could you explain further, please?
 
user4639281
@KimberleyBarrass Because the CEO of the company decided that the extenuating circumstances warranted breaking protocol this time.
 
user2654834
Thus violating the rules we all agreed to be bound by.
 
user4639281
@jpmc26 As I have said before, I don't agree with the one sentence in the question, but I don't think that should derail the entire discussion.
 
user4639281
1:03 AM
If that one sentence is the whole damned problem, why don't we just edit it out?
 
Neither do I. If it had been edited out when Joel repoened his post, we wouldn't still be talking about it. I'd probably let it go, much like I did with the gay pride thing, despite disagreeing with it.
 
user2654834
I have problems with the entire post.
 
user2654834
Well. The second paragraph is OK,
 
user2654834
but without the rest would have no context
 
@TinyGiant To be clear im not sure anybody claiming he doesn't have the right to do that. It is his company. The claim is that it's in poor taste and a poor move for community cohesion.
 
1:04 AM
@TinyGiant In part because I would roll back those edits
 
user2654834
I do not understand.
 
@TinyGiant One person tried to tone it down, not even by removing the content but by changing it to an "I think" form, and they were rolled back by... that guy up there. ^
 
Joel decided to make the post, Joel chose his words, Joel is the CEO of a large tech company and some or all of that post might be quoted as an official SO statement
 
As for the openness of the discussion, I mean, there really is no denying it: You simply aren't allowed to express anti immigration views if you want to maintain your social standing.
 
@TinyGiant Questions should always reflect the OPs intended question, regardless of topic.
 
user4639281
1:05 AM
@meagar Add Joel can roll the edit back if he disagrees.
 
If Joel wants to come back and edit his post to include more moderate wording, that's his prerogative
 
user2654834
Can anyone give me a reason why the post is allowed to stay that is not: "He's the CEO"
 
user4639281
@KimberleyBarrass He's the CEO, that reason is sufficient
 
@TinyGiant Don't be disrespectful.
 
@KimberleyBarrass A real reason or a snarky, cynical one? Cause I've got plenty of the latter.
 
1:06 AM
@KimberleyBarrass No, that's not to say there isn't one, but "he's CEO" is enough for me.
 
It's a valid concern to think the CEO should follow the policies he has publically stated he believes in.
 
@KimberleyBarrass why is that not sufficient reason? every one of us is free to log out of SE and never return if it bothers us enough
 
@KimberleyBarrass It's clearly important to a significant section of S(O|E) communities. Reopened by plenty of others besides himself.
 
@meagar Be real, that wouldn't be enough reason for you if it was a pro Trump statement.
 
It absolutely would be
 
1:07 AM
@enderland You know, I think Shog answered that beautiful.
 
user2654834
Then there is no discussion.
 
@meagar I don't think you are capable of actually predicting how you would react to that as you might think
2
 
I do not believe that. But I do not know you and will take your word for it. @meagar
 
@KimberleyBarrass SE never was intended as a democracy
 
@enderland "You wouldn't drive the person next to you away from their plate of food, so why would you seek to drive someone away from their discussion of Star Wars? And yet... That's what keeps happening."
from here. Whole thing is a great read.
 
1:08 AM
Anyways I'm glad I popped in here. I have real work to get back to. Happy debating, all.
 
I don't understand how that relates to what I said at all @jpmc26
 
Sorry. it's missing some context.
 
I'm aware of the context (the Mos Eisley.... debacle) but I don't see how it's relevant to us participating voluntarily in the private business of SO
 
user2654834
@enderland In which case, all that has happened here is that we have a political opinion espoused by someone outside of a democracy that encourages the community to take political action based on partisan comments
 
@enderland You asked why Joel being CEO isn't enough reason, and then suggested we could all leave. That entire post expresses that the idea of, "You can leave if you don't like it," isn't really in line with SO's values.
 
1:11 AM
@KimberleyBarrass ... so?
 
user2654834
so what a prick
 
I am tempted to make an even more radical edit @Tiny, but it would be rolled back.
 
@enderland Values that Joel says he believes in. all we're asking is for Joel to embrace his values. why isn't that an appropriate request?
 
user2654834
why should we care?
 
Please don't make edits that change the intended meaning of the post. It's up to the OP to change what they mean to say if they want to. — Sklivvz ♦ 46 secs ago
 
user4639281
1:12 AM
@Tunaki C'est la vie, try to do the smallest thing possible to get the discussion back on track, but sadly some people just want to watch the world burn it seems.
 
user2654834
Because he's the CEO? - If that really is the case, - I find it to be no longer to be a semantic argument that I thought earlier as to the fact that it's off-rule. It's more that it is ethically unsound to use that position to try to enact political change based on personal opinion.
 
@jpmc26 I've read a lot of people lamenting Joel's attitude towards QA being less strict than Jeff's, actually, so I'm not sure I'd even be convinced that there's anything inherently inconsistent with him "embracing his values" here
 
@enderland I don't think that answers the question of what's wrong with the request.
 
@KimberleyBarrass why is it ethically unsound?
 
user2654834
Have you heard of PESTLE analysis?
 
user2654834
1:15 AM
the P specifically?
 
user2654834
Political analysis is fraught with risk, and although he potentially has the right to align the business in a certain direction, to try to influence the users of his service is very strange ground.
 
@Sklivvz The meaning was not changed at all. The inappropriate words were removed in trying to bring the post to a state where it can be objectively discussed.
 
Rob
@Tunaki That doesn't matter, though, because "He's the CEO". Community be damned.
 
@Sklivvz Making it personal (first-person pronouns) makes it clear that this is an opinion. Making it general (no first-person pronouns) imposes an opinion as factual, which makes it not a discussion.
 
user4639281
@Rob Slkivvz isn't the CEO
 
1:18 AM
It doesn't matter
 
Rob
@TinyGiant I noticed. I'm talking about the fact we're unable to edit Joel's posts because he's the CEO.
 
@TinyGiant ...You know that isn't what Rob meant.
 
Clearly one part of the audience perceives what you say as true, clearly another does not.
We already have an open/close war, we don't want an edit war.
 
user4639281
@Sklivvz It doesn't matter that we actually want to work together to have a reasonable discussion on the matter by changing a bit of verbiage without changing the intent?
 
@Sklivvz Can I ask the reverse question? Where is the harm in making the post more polite?
 
1:19 AM
@Sklivvz Is there a way to lock edits, but not answers?
 
locking prevents answers (I got tricked into that)
 
it also prevents comments and votes.
 
user4639281
@Rob No, we're unable to edit Joel's post because other people keep rolling the edits back. Joel hasn't rolled back an edit there AFAIK.
 
:35363498 Nope, PPCG sees locked unclosed posts, it locks answers.
 
Rob
@Sklivvz They didn't change the meaning of the post, though. It simply changed it from "Here's the absolute facts" to "Here's what I believe".
 
1:20 AM
@TinyGiant "Together" does not include the OP
 
user4639281
@Sklivvz Yes it does
 
Rob
@TinyGiant Yes, and the reason was given by a moderator that it's because Joel is the CEO and we are not to change his words.
 
@Rob in your opinion which is clearly not shared by others
 
@Sklivvz I see a lot of "I agree" and emotions. There are no objective discussions about what the SE platform intends to do or not to do.
 
Rob
@Sklivvz It's actually not my opinion. I agree with Joel. But the edit did not change the meaning of the post or change someones opinion.
2
 
1:21 AM
@Sklivvz There's plenty of precedence throughout the network of removing provocative content to facilitate keeping the post on topic. Usually, the author gracefully accepts these changes. Occasionally, they don't, and then stuff like disassociating the user happens to make the edits stick.
3
 
user4639281
Hell, what was that post Shog edited the other day?
 
user4639281
The one about moderators being psycopaths,
 
Calling other people idiots has never made for a good starting point in discussion
Apart in the circles where people agree with that opinion.
 
Changing "the sky is blue" to "in my opinion the sky is blue" not only changes the tone but weakens the message. The OP clearly intended to give a strong message and not a weak one.
 
@Sklivvz Then that post violates the Be Nice policy. If you don't feel like you can edit it in good conscience, then you can delete it on that basis.
 
Rob
1:23 AM
@Sklivvz There's a difference between objective and subjective statements, and you know that.
People agreeing with Trump's decision are not objectively idiots.
 
user2654834
That is a factual statement (barring qualia anyway)
 
user2654834
lol. everyone beat me to it!
 
user4639281
@Sklivvz Sometimes we have to pick between sticking to the letter of the law, and bending a little bit so that we can have a reasonable discussion on the matter Joel wanted us to discuss.
 
It is not a strong message. The edit did not prefix the sentences with "in my opinion"
 
@TinyGiant that's up to him
 
1:25 AM
@TinyGiant And sometimes we have the option of doing both or doing neither. Like in this case.
 
@Sklivvz Strength of message is not important. That is a discussion question, not a preach question.
 
user4639281
Hell, if we're going by the letter of the law here then that post should be closed and deleted immediately. If we're going to discuss what he wants us to discuss, then we all need to bend our interpretations of the law a bit.
 
It just removed the abject wording, while conveying the same intent.
 
user4639281
Why can't we all just work together to have a constructive discussion instead of constantly railing against each other?
 
user2654834
Because the rules have been broken
 
user2654834
1:26 AM
But not by us
 
Because people have been treated unkindly, in such a way the undermines the ability to even have a discussion.
 
As I said above, please don't insist: just ask the wording is modified and get the agreement of the OP. This is a highly contentious question (obviously) and such strong actions, no matter how light they seem to you right now, and no matter how well intentioned, easily derail into edit wars. We can deal with rules and specifics later, but right now let's focus on not making this worse with an edit war.
 
user4639281
@Sklivvz That flies in the face of site common consensus, but whatever.
 
@Sklivvz Would you mind posting the comment requesting permission?
 
Sure: what is the comment exactly?
 
1:28 AM
you haven't been in this mess all day, so you can probably give a more tempered comment.
 
user4639281
> Could we remove "both morally repugnant and frankly stupid and" in order to get the discussion back on track? It is currently the cause of much friction.
 
ask if it's all right to remove the phrases "immoral," "fundamentally un-American," "morally repugnant," and "frankly stupid," and modify the content slightly if needed to make the text still flow. in essence, the wording that discourages participation by those with an opposing view.
 
user2654834
both of the above
 
user4639281
Being that all of our comments will be deleted without being read due to the elongation of the current derailment, it would have to come from an employee or mod to even be read.
 
1 hour ago, by Tunaki
What's bothering me in all this are the words "immoral, unconstitutional, demonizing, morally repugnant, stupid". Those words are completely inappropriate. They do not express disagreement. They express the view-point of "I know better, the millions of people that voted are a bunch of idiots, and you will listen to me". That speech is not at all different from the speech they're trying to fight.
And with that I'm off
 
1:31 AM
have a good night or day.
 
IMO, they are totally accurate :-S
 
That's just because you agree with it
 
@Sklivvz and that attitude is why people with a dissenting opinion won't be comfortable participating.
3
 
@Sklivvz See: IMO
 
user2654834
night all!
 
1:32 AM
What attitude?
 
As a mod, I'm sure you know Shog has written extensively about respecting one another's political opinions.
Granted, his focus has been chat, but such discussions are off-topic for actual posts in the first place. so he didn't expect it to be an issue for a post.
 
user4639281
@Sklivvz Statements can be perceived to be accurate by some and completely off-putting by others. The point is that we want to stop bickering and start having a constructive discussion if you would please allow us to commence.
 
Ask Shog: afaik we should respect each other, but opinions can and should be criticized (and sometimes, harshly)
 
user2654834
OK. I was going to go to bed, but I'm now drawn back in.
 
You are not your opinions, I am not my opinions
 
1:33 AM
@Sklivvz a popular current trend of political thinking basically goes like, "if you aren't opposed to Trump, you are <immoral, morally repugnant, stupid>" which effectively makes any political discussion a circlejerk against Trump, where anyone with a shred of support for him is demonized
 
@KimberleyBarrass Run while you still can.
 
user2654834
You asked what comment?
 
good night, Kim.
 
user4639281
Words that can be perceived as attempting to silence one side of a debate are a problem.
 
@jpmc26 he's actually an SE employee
 
user2654834
1:34 AM
We all stated what we would like you to add
 
@enderland read the question: it's clearly talking about the Trump administration actions
 
@Sklivvz ... yes, but a lot of people voted for Trump and his plan to enact these policies isn't exactly a surprise
 
@Sklivvz Then the Be Nice policy around political discussion is even more meaningless than I imagined.
2
 
@enderland so what, people are not their votes :-)
 
user4639281
@Sklivvz Some people support those actions, and the verbiage in the post can be perceived as an attempt to silence those people, though I'm sure that is not the intent
 
1:36 AM
@Sklivvz I'm going to assume good faith here from you?
 
> Rudeness and belittling language are not okay. Your tone should match the way you'd talk in person with someone you respect and whom you want to respect you.
 
I think a lot of people have a political opinion and want to silence criticism by focusing on really stupid things.
 
@Sklivvz Can you provide the source of that quote? I can't find it.
 
the reason it's problematic to people is that someone (Joel) categorically dismisses a viewpoint clearly campaigned on by a candidate who received a large portion of the vote in the USA election, dismissing and mocking that perspective categorically and in a condescending and rude manner
 
user4639281
@Sklivvz That's what we're trying to fix
 
1:37 AM
@VoteToClose This does not match the text in the question. Please edit it such that it conforms to community guidelines.
 
By doing the same?
 
user2654834
No
 
user2654834
By removing partisan bias
 
@Sklivvz no, by changing that language to not be condescending and rude
 
user4639281
Right now everyone is focusing on the specific verbiage, which a simple change can fix.
 
1:37 AM
@Sklivvz good point you are right OP is focusing on stupid things
 
user4639281
It wouldn't change the intent of the post, which is to spark discussion
 
@VoteToClose You are stupid is belittling, your actions are bad is not.
 
user4639281
It would allow the intent of the post to happen.
 
@Sklivvz I don't get it. Why are you and so many other mods and staff so committed to text that intentionally belittles a lot of users?
 
@Sklivvz really?
 
1:38 AM
Sure
 
@Sklivvz Um, this post definitely says people are stupid.
 
I've suspended users who frequently attack other user's posts
 
user4639281
@Sklivvz Your actions are stupid === You're stupid enough to perform those actions.
 
@Sklivvz You cannot believe that this does not state that people are stupid.
It invalidates the opinions of millions.
This is getting nowhere. No one will listen to anyone unless people stop telling each other that the other is factually wrong.
 
@enderland Lets say that I am at least as capable of predicting my own actions as others are, so the point is moot.
 
user4639281
1:39 AM
All we're asking for is a little neutrality in a single ultimately inconsequential phrase.
 
On top of "stupid," it also calls them "immoral" and "un-American." I dunno if you're American, but even politicians sometimes say that kind of language just shuts down discussion here.
 
user4639281
@Sklivvz There is so much more to the post than that statement, and if you're implying that the intent of the post is to insult a great number of people, then I think there is a much bigger problem here.
 
@jpmc26 imagine if someone posted things like this in chat somewhere "voting for Clinton is immoral and un-American"
2
 
It also calls dissenters "repugnant."
 
Rob
And here I was, thinking I was a true American, living out here in Australia
 
1:41 AM
I am implying what now?
 
@enderland Exactly!
 
Sounds like we're circling back around to "If Joel can do it, why can't I?"
 
@meagar ... no
 
No.
 
"be nice" is often in the eyes of the beholder
 
1:42 AM
@meagar Why do you say that?
 
user4639281
@Sklivvz By saying that changing the verbiage—which currently is perceived as intending to insult a great many people and silence half of the debate—is changing the intent of the post you are in turn saying that insulting a great many people and silencing half of the debate is the intent of the post.
 
There's a difference between insulting Trump or his electors and criticizing (even really hard) his actions. I am sure a crapton of people get offended if Joel criticizes his actions. But that does not allow them to censor him.
2
 
@meagar None of us wants to do it (or we are at least willing to curb the desire), and we're saying Joel shouldn't do it, either. If for no other reason, then out of respect for this community.
 
Setting up "someone" using similar language to Joel's post just struck me as trending in that direction
 
Guys, I gotta go to bed. Please re-read what I wrote and take it to heart. I am just trying to help everyone.
 
user4639281
1:43 AM
@Sklivvz The post is currently perceived as insulting and attempting to silence anyone who may disagree with the position due to the verbiage used. I am for the political position but against the verbiage used.
5
 
user2654834
@Sklivvz So. Can you confirm that what you are saying is that because he is the CEO, he can post his opinions unmodified. Whereas we cannot.
 
@TinyGiant perception != fact
 
@KimberleyBarrass Or put another way, he can use the site as his personal blog, but we cannot.
 
@KimberleyBarrass no and stop saying this kind of stuff
 
@Sklivvz it's idiotic to make political meta posts. it's counterproductive to the purposes of stack Overflow and frankly stupid to do so
3
 
1:44 AM
Whew, I thought this chat was locked. The UI is pretty tiny.
 
user4639281
@Sklivvz The perception can be fixed without changing the facts
 
Rob
@Sklivvz Head to bed before you get drawn back in
 
@enderland a valid opinion, which I'm sure Joel disagrees with
 
@Sklivvz ... hopefully :p
 
Sorry to interject, but has anyone asked Joel Spolsky to disclose his own financial effort toward this issue? I asked in a comment because I wanted it to notify the OP, but it was moderated away
 
1:45 AM
@KimberleyBarrass you're not allowed to say that
 
@Sklivvz So we should just throw the Be Nice policy out the window because people shouldn't perceive insult? You said yourself that calling people stupid violates it.
 
@Sklivvz Why? This is blatantly a subjective post with language that directly opposes rule one of the be nice policy. Seems pretty bloggy to me.
 
@jpmc26 I think we are not violating it at all
 
@Sklivvz I disagree. Strongly.
 
user4639281
I just want to discuss the damn thing, not discuss the discussion of the damn thing!
 
1:46 AM
@VoteToClose because I haven't said so at all, and I don't want to deny stuff i haven't said
 
The reason why I ask is because, as head of a private company that relies on crowd-sourced labor, his campaigning draws on that labor presence.
 
the problem is when people agree so strongly agree with a position is that they can no longer see why the language involved is offensive and instead assume anyone who disagrees is wrong, rather than actually legitimately feeling the way they say (ironic given the content of the post in question, actually)
5
 
user2654834
I think it is a violation of the 'be nice' policy, and I am made to feel significantly uncomfortable by it
 
@VoteToClose fine. you are allowed to disagree. Let's open a meta post and discuss it there. I'm all for that. Sorting it out in chat and editing: no.
 
That strikes me as possibly disingenous, since he profits once from the labor and its network effect, and once again by drawing on that labor force as a political audience to mobilize.
 
1:48 AM
@Sklivvz We opened a meta post discussing whether this post was on topic and what problems it had hours ago.
 
What's wrong with talking in chat?
 
@Sklivvz You mods are just ignoring it!
 
@bright-star so? every single private company that generates profit in some sort can do the same thing
 
If he's spent some of that SO profit on the issue, it would improve my impression of the use of the site for that campaigning purpose.
 
@Sklivvz Which will lead to a discussion in the comments, which will in turn be moved to chat.
 
user2654834
1:48 AM
lol :)
 
@Sklivvz I'm probably missing some context, but please make sure your post is not a duplicate of meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/342480/…
 
@Sklivvz and then in chat you said we should ask for approval to modify the post to remove the offensive content.
 
user4639281
@Sklivvz The only thing you're achieving here is further derailment of the discussion that Joel started. You ain't helping the situation any.
 
@VoteToClose In all fairness, do you think the comments below the original question would have supported the volume of discussion that's happened here?
 
@enderland Indeed, and there's precedent for how this is handled. Brendan Eich was forced out of Mozilla based on the interaction between Mozilla customers and his personal use of Mozilla pay for political campaigning.
 
1:49 AM
@Sklivvz and I asked you to post the comment. and then you started debating that there's nothing wrong with the post after we told you what we wanted to ask.
 
@jpmc26 my post?
 
@Sklivvz what the heck is with this runaround?
 
@meagar No - that's my point.
 
@Sklivvz Whether or not it is profitable, I assume that Joel Spolsky draws a paycheck? Not that it's my business directly.
 
@bright-star CEO's and other company leadership have plenty of corporate interests they financially support
 
1:49 AM
@VoteToClose Then I missed your point
 
@jpmc26 i strongly disagree with what you wanted me to post, find another messenger
 
user4639281
Can we please just fix the damn problem that is causing this whole issue? Hell, get Joel on the phone and ask him if its OK. It doesn't seem like we will hear from him otherwise.
 
@enderland I realize that, but that doesn't obviate the "double-dipping" I describe.
 
Fine. I'll post a comment.
 
user2654834
I cannot believe that answer!
 
1:51 AM
@meagar The question would lead to a discussion, which occurs only by back and forth communication. That would occur in the comments. Then a moderator would move it to chat in order to prevent the volume mentioned from being in comments.
 
Sample:
 
user4639281
@Sklivvz Great anyone's comments besides a mods will be deleted without being read as previously stated by Shog. Yet no mod will post the comment asking for the removal of the wording that is causing the misconception that is derailing the discussion.
 
user2654834
that's an utterly broken system
 
@VoteToClose I agree, sorry, I thought you were implying that moving comments to chat was done to prevent or censor discussion
 
user4639281
@Sklivvz So you're basically saying "You must get the OP's permission, but you're not allowed to ask for the OP's permission."
 
1:52 AM
If you think the question is in violation of the be nice policy, state your case in a meta post (the one linked is about it being better elsewhere, which is a different question).
 
user4639281
@Sklivvz You're really good at silencing discussion eh?
 
@TinyGiant you can ping him here, you can add an answer or post a whole question if its useful
 
> Joel, many of us in chat feel that calling the opposing view "immoral," "fundamentally un-American," "morally repugnant," and "frankly stupid," is actively harming the community's ability to discuss this issue rationally. Moderators have instructed us to obtain permission before trying to make edits. Would it be okay if someone edited out this provocative language? It may be necessary to rework some of the text around it to make it flow, of course.
3
that sound okay?
 
user4639281
@Sklivvz Seriously? For a matter of a couple words that are causing the post to be perceived incorrectly?
 
@jpmc26 sure
 
user4639281
1:53 AM
That's a cop out if I ever did see one.
 
user4639281
@jpmc26 Prepare for it to be deleted.
 
@TinyGiant Well, stop saying stuff like this if you want people to take you seriously
 
For some reason, I keep banging my head against the brick wall hoping something will happen.
 
@Sklivvz I'll post it. In the meantime, go to sleep, you said you would a while back. I'll be doing the same immediately after posting my meta question. I did not intend to aggravate, if I did, and look forward to getting to an actual discussion about the topic with you in the future.
Night @everyone.
 
Rob
@Sklivvz how about simply pinging Joel on the post with a link to the above suggestion. Then you don't need to agree or disagree with the request
 
1:54 AM
joel gets pinged every comment
 
@Sklivvz not in chat and not if they are deleted
 
user4639281
@Sklivvz Thanks for proving my point.
 
Rob
But a comment on the post is visible.
 
(which is why probably posting hundreds of comments under the question is... not a great strategy)
 
posted.
 
user2654834
1:55 AM
we only wanted one. Yours. Which you volunteered on our behalf but refused as you didn't agree
 
user2654834
@jpmc26 TY!
 
May I be allowed to post my question in the comments section as well? I would like to at least give Joel a chance to address the issue.
 
user4639281
@bright-star Of course not, all comments by non-moderators will be deleted.
 
Is that the official position of SO moderators on this issue?
 
Looks like green card holders are going to be fine: White House reverses course on green card holders - "citizens of those countries who hold permanent U.S. residency “green cards” will not be barred from re-entering the country, as officials had previously said."
 
user2654834
1:57 AM
yes
 
> citizens of those countries who hold permanent U.S. residency “green cards” will not be barred from re-entering the country, as officials had previously said.
 
user4639281
@bright-star That is shog's position
 
user4639281
@AaronHall finally
 
Any reason why?
 
user4639281
@bright-star Because there has been far too much discussion about whether or not meta is the correct medium for the post.
 
1:58 AM
That's...not what I'm asking.
 
user4639281
Oh, you're talking about the green card decision?
 
No
One second, let me dig it up
 
@jpmc26 Should I refrain from meta-posting, since that comment hasn't been deleted?
 
user4639281
@bright-star Then I have no clue what you're referring to
 
Hmm
That didn't work, sorry
 
user4639281
1:59 AM
You're asking why comments from non-moderators on the question will be deleted right?
 
@VoteToClose yeah. let's see what happens.
 

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