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12:29 AM
@Makyen It's ironic you mentioned that. I had to clean this question up today
 
@Machavity gagh
 
1:03 AM
Potential feature request: if a user fails a review audit, prevent that post from being used as an audit again, even if the failure was due to robo-reviewing.
Thoughts? Arguments for and against, and rebuttals?
 
issue: audit depletion. You'd have to reach for more and more generous criteria and likely end up with worse audits - and any of those you kick out will get replaced by something worse
 
@gparyani I'd rather see this
I think it would solve the problem more completely
 
1:22 AM
@gparyani Seriously, after one failure? Why would it need to be even nearly that hair-triggered?
 
Relatedly, if it tripped up a robo-reviewer, that suggests it's a good audit.
That would mean that the least effective audits would make up the majority of audits people get, because (almost) no one is going to fail an audit on "hello pls help enter code here enter image description here"
 
@gparyani If a "robo-reviewer" fails an audit, then surely that audit has done its job. Why should it thus be considered a poor audit? (It could be but that failure isn't signalling it in any way.)
... However, if many reviewers fail the same audit, then that may very well be a signal that it's a poor choice of post for the job.
 
@gparyani It would be a good idea for audits to be auto-removed when they have too high a failure rate, but the minimum number of total audits for that post should be more than a single audit. Three or four total audits would be more reasonable, but the absolute minimum, assuming there's a large audit pool, should be at least 2 total audits, both of which failed.
Then, it's something where the minimum % pass needs to be picked. However, all the numbers should be chosen based on actual data, which none of us have right at the moment.
 
2:00 AM
@gparyani I'd still like to see a curated audit system, but that's probably a pipe dream
 
2:35 AM
@Machavity I'd certainly like to see major improvements, such as are in your question and its answers, including, at least, the ability to explicitly manually curate the posts being used for audits. I just think it's much more likely for there to be incremental improvements, rather than a major/complete update, and it's a situation where some incremental improvements would noticeably help.
 
2:54 AM
Is SO having problems for anyone else? Slow responses and the occasional "Offline for maintenance"
 
Same here. At least the slow responses. I haven't gotten that message though.
Ah, I do now.
 
3:51 AM
@Makyen / RO: Could this request be removed, as it's been closed and reopened?
 
@user692942 there's no duplicate comment on this. What are you suggesting it's a duplicate of? (the one in the close votes doesn't seem to make sense)
PSA: We have a loooooong backlog of cv-pls requests (currently 56). The Unclosed Request Review Script on socvr.org/tools/userscripts is an excellent way to review the backlog.
 
 
1 hour later…
5:09 AM
@RyanM Some of them have already been deleted by Community bot. Why doesn't the cleanup script move them to the graveyard?
 
@oguzismail Hmm, I'm not seeing that, but perhaps the script is filtering them out. What's an example?
 
@AdrianMole No wonder I like you!
 
/*click/* ..and it disappears. Hi, @Makyen!
 
o/
 
I wonder why my escaping is broken...
 
5:46 AM
@CodyGray Yeah, I definitely know that feeling. It's a fairly common occurrence with the Archiver to have all the to-be-archived posts disappear from the preview as someone else ninja's pressing the button to send them to the Graveyard. :)
 
@RyanM This is listed among search results on the page your looong backlog link takes me, but apparently it has been moved to the graveyard. But yeah, URRS hides them from there
 
@Makyen Indeed. I was using it as a "but-I-already-have-this-one-installed!" replacement for the URRS.
 
@oguzismail Ahhh, yeah, that's a bug in search. Specifically this one on MSO and this one on MSE.
 
@oguzismail Yes, that's a know bug in chat search, which the URRS compensates for, or not, depending on how you've set the "Messages in another room:" option. You can set it to "Normal", "Highlight & tooltip", or "Hide".
 
@Makyen The interface is so convoluted I'm afraid of clicking anything let alone changing options.
@RyanM Oh, thanks.
 
5:50 AM
@oguzismail Ah, the developer-created UI
 
The horror, the horror
 
@oguzismail I'm sorry to hear you feel it's "convoluted". I am, of course, open to suggestions as to how it can be improved. Alternately, we also accept PRs. :)
 
Maybe you need some tabs. That always fixes it. :-)
 
It's not that I feel that way, it is really complex and hard to tell what does what.
 
I think "The Dialog" at my last job was the "dev features" screen that was included in internal builds. It was built dynamically from an enum in the code and used to push all sorts of buttons and turn various knobs. It eventually got unmanageably long...so I split it into submenus :-) Fixed!
 
5:56 AM
Anyway, while two mods are here, do I have to post a merge request on meta for -> or is it obvious enough for you guys to do it without community input?
 
@RyanM I've always kind of planned to build such a "dev options" interface into my apps, either as a dialog or just a special menu in menu bar. But, I've always found that I don't need it. The debugging builds turn on sensible options for...debugging, and the release builds have them off. There just isn't a justification for the elevated level of complexity that comes with knobs. Despite how cool it seems to me as a developer.
@oguzismail I am pretty much good with just doing that. Unless Makyen wants to get all formal and demand that it be posted on MSO for documentation purposes. :-)
 
@CodyGray It was useful for toggling in-progress features on and off, so that you could test the old and new versions at the flip of a switch. Or turn on various things that would simulate various failure modes.
Especially useful for QA, who have to test the upcoming thing while verifying that the old one isn't broken.
@oguzismail but clearly there are non-makefile related questions, like, uh, whatever this is
(but seriously, though, that seems very merge-worthy)
 
@RyanM Mmm..... I don't know about that. You can't, really. Once released, it's two different binaries, so those need to be tested separately. Turning on failure modes, though, yeah; that makes sense. That's the only use-case that I've ever found that seems legitimate.
A developer could ignore the "two different binaries" thing for the purposes of testing the new feature, but QA cannot.
@RyanM The what, now?
 
@CodyGray The released versions simply force all dev features to a particular configuration.
@CodyGray :-)
 
@RyanM Ah, so all of that was still compiled into the binary, just without a UI to configure it?
That's... horrific.
Think of all that dead code!!
 
6:03 AM
@RyanM OP should have tagged it python. Both he and the answerer would earn at least 10 rep each
 
At least, whatever the minifier isn't smart enough to strip out. I don't know how smart it is. But conditional compilation in Java is hard.
 
It is?
@oguzismail JSON would have worked, too.
 
Yeah, the compiler itself won't strip stuff out unless it's very, very obviously dead (pretty much if it's behind a compiler-provable if check). And that doesn't happen at the file level.
 
Ah, right. Yeah, I guess it's not really ahead-of-time compiled, so you can't do stuff like whole program optimization.
 
I'll have a golden badge for that soon. Need only 250 upvotes more
 
6:06 AM
We had to go somewhat out of our way to strip the information needed to access dev servers from the build, especially back in the days before build flavors in Gradle.
 
Sorry for the delayed response. My internet connection dropped out for a while.
@oguzismail I can agree with that. I just didn't see how it got to "convoluted". :) OTOH, don't you just play with the controls to find out what does what? There are also lots of tooltips, so you can hover over the controls to get more information. That doesn't mean it's good, just that there is some additional explanation available.
Keep in mind that one of the significant criteria was to have it fit within the upper portion of the Chat search results page and match the existing CSS. In other words, there was intent to make it feel like it fit within the exiting design. I'm not wedded to that requirement, but it's not being designed in a vacuum. :;
@oguzismail Technically, given that it's > 50 questions, a Meta post is required.
@CodyGray On this one, I'm largely "meh" wrt. an MSO post. It looks fairly obvious that it should be merged. The number of questions is 65, which really isn't all that much above 50...
 
OK, I'm going with "meh".
What's a Friday evening if you can't spent it by merging some tags?
Any idea why we might have/need a tag?
I assume that was meant to apply to some kind of project in Dev-C++ or CodeBlocks or whatever IDE, but... it isn't being used that way, and it doesn't have any tag wiki guidance, so it seems like something that should also be merged into .
 
6:46 AM
@Makyen If I do that then I'll have to remember which controls I played with (there are too many of them) so that I can get the default behavior after without removing and reinstalling the script. And re: your next message, I don't think you should expect users of a software to care about details that are only pertinent to the developer. Now, for example, I understand why the search results show 10 pages but when I click page numbers greater than one an empty page is brought up, but it's ..
just bad UX
 
@CodyGray After looking at the earliest question, it appears that it was intended to be for Eclipse Makefile-projects. However, it doesn't look like it's really been used that way. There are only 5 questions with both and .
 
7:11 AM
@Makyen 5, actually. You forgot to filter out answers. (You nitpicked me earlier today, so it was my turn, obviously.) :-)
 
Mod fight! Place your bets now!
 
@rene Mods nitpicking each other to death? This will go on indefinitely.... don't expect your bets to get resolved any time soon.
 
6 to 8 weeks will do ...
 
Well, in a mere two weeks, there will be more mods...which doesn't seem likely to decrease the amount of nitpicking, really.
 
Well, highly likely you'll be that welcome change ...
 
7:23 AM
I would welcome that change.
And the resulting nitpicks.
 
For the next mod election Q/A: How is your nitpicking?
 
"Please link your nitpickiest meta post"
 
@rene That's literally what mod elections are all about.
 
"If somebody posted a question you disagree with, would you subject them to death by nitpicking?"
 
@oguzismail I can understand that's confusing. The URRS review UI is basically a bit more information that's augmenting and filtering the search results which are returned by SE chat search, which isn't able to narrow down the search to just those messages which are actually requests (be that cv-pls, del-pls, etc.). So, there really are 10 search results pages.
However, on the higher page numbers there are no actionable requests, so the review UI filters those out, because they aren't what someone using the review UI is trying to see. If you want to see the actual results, you can click on the button at the top-center of the page which is "without CV UI", or you can just follow this link to page 10 of those results without the CV review UI.
For any particular search, the URRS can't really know if there are going to be actionable requests on any particular search results page, so not showing the user the possibility of going to those pages doesn't seem like the best idea. It would be possible to load all the pages, and then determine how many results there really are, but loading all those pages would take quite a bit of time, during which the user would not be happy waiting.
 
 
@CodyGray Dang it. Didn't I say 5? :)
@CodyGray Touche :)
 
Hmm, speaking of URRS, I just experienced a bug due to it: I hit the "reply" to some comment on transcript and got a message that local storage is not supported. The problem was that local storage was there but when chat tried to do localStorage.setItem() it threw an exception that the quota has been reached. URRS had saved too much data there.
 
@VLAZ What browser are you using?
 
@Makyen Oh, so close! Had you fixed the link, I would have deemed it sufficient. :-)
 
@Makyen Firefox 93.0 on Windows 10
 
7:37 AM
@CodyGray For some reason, the link is broken for me, now. It wasn't earlier, but now it's bringing up just + instead of + , so I didn't go in and adjust it. I should have. I'd planned on it, but then I got stumped on getting it to actually work. :;
 
@Makyen Yes. I merged into . So it's redirecting to that.
I'll pretend it was intentional, to make it more difficult for you to cover your tracks.
 
@CodyGray Ahhh... that would explain it. I should have been paying attention. I got distracted by my internet connection dropping in and out repeatedly.
 
Sneaky of Cody to disrupt your internet connection to distract you.
 
Yeah, that definitely took some extra effort.
 
It accidentally took out Stack Exchange briefly, too.
 
7:40 AM
@CodyGray I thought it was just part of the standard mod tools.
 
@RyanM No, Stack Exchange was still working for me. I think that was just a ripple effect in the space-time continuum. It affected not only current mods, but future mods, too.
 
@CodyGray It is impressive that you would go to those lengths. :)
 
7:56 AM
@Makyen You never noticed the switch in the Blue Room?
 
@rene No, someone have been strategically standing in front of it, so wouldn't see it. :)
That takes some significant planning ahead. :)
 
The weirdest part is that the switch has always been there. The room was built around it.
 
8:13 AM
Can anyone make heads or tails of this answer? There's a suggested edit and it seems ...hard to follow... both before and after
 
@RyanM It's a response to a comment
 
that ^
 
Ah, yeah, so it is...
 
the answer should be deleted
 
The comment-posted-as-answer should be deleted
 
8:17 AM
Deleted, you say?
 
On a related note, I don't like it when somebody edits to "correct" a quote. I think that even if a quoted text is wrong, it should stay exactly as what it quoted. I'd only edit quotes if the source changed or similar.
 
@VLAZ bonus points if the quote is of an error message
 
@VLAZ I was a bit surprised to hear the URRS was taking up so much room in localStorage, but, yeah, it might, if the list of tags grows quite long in multiple filter presets. It was initially written to use userscript storage, but there were issues. IIRC, the main issue was wanting to be notified of changes in other tabs and Greasemonkey doesn't have that capability for userscript storage. Given that userscript storage is effectively unlimited, I didn't implement trimming the tags lists.
Could you run the following in the browser console, which should give an idea of where and how much localStorage space is being used:
Object.keys(localStorage).sort().map((key) => [localStorage[key].length, key]).sort(([a],[b]) => b - a)
The keys using the largest amount of space will be sorted to the beginning of the resulting array.
 
@CodyGray Huh, that just ...obliterates the suggested edit. It 404s now. That's mildly unexpected.
 
@Makyen My apologies but I deleted the storage already. I should have taken a snapshot for bug reporting purposes. Right now the lagest one is [ 1107, "unclosedRequestReview-nonUiConfig" ] but that is only out of 3 keys. I had 7 when I cleared it, I think.
 
8:22 AM
@RyanM Yeah. Deleting a post deletes any pending suggested edits.
Mods can also delete a pending suggested edit from the suggested edit review queue (or, well, we used to be able to... dunno if they broke that with the recent revamp).
 
@SurajRao Very suspicious. Could it be a spam seed?
 
We will never know.
 
@E_net4thecandidatesupporter It could but I am more inclined to believe it was a user treating SO as a forum and posting a "fun thread".
 
I couldnt really understand that to think of spam seed. The title and body seem to be asking different things...
 
It's sort of a trivia thread - ask a question, see how people respond. Expectation is they'd only use their own knowledge. Also expect some purely joke replies. That's common on forums.
But it could also be a spam seed for answers that point to some online resources or whatever.
Again, I think it's the former. But spam is always an option.
 
8:35 AM
@VLAZ Thanks for trying. Don't worry that the data no longer exists. That's the way it goes sometimes. There's really only one thing that can grow in what the URRS stores, which is the list of tags which are available to be hidden for each filter preset. Other than those lists, there's not all that much data that it stores.
There can be multiple keys for the URRS in localStorage, depending on how many of the filter presets you've used and on how many of the different searches you've used them. There are 8 presets and they are separately configurable for each of cv-pls, del-pls, reopen-pls and undel-pls.
I'll think about alternatives which can be used to limit the amount of localStorage it uses, so that you and others don't encounter the issue in the future. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.
 
Seemed like a weird case because I've been using URRS for a while. Only now did I encounter this problem. I imagine it is not very common. Replying to a comment from transcript just saves the comment ID to local storage but it seems that pushed it over the edge. I am going to monitor the data stored more closely now and report if I find anything more useful.
 
9:12 AM
@VLAZ That would be helpful. I am interested in knowing what happened and if it happens again. I'll definitely look at ways which can be used to limit the space which it takes, and/or offload the larger part into userscript storage.
Assuming that the issue was that you were accumulating a large number of tags in multiple filter presets, it should be moderately easy to reduce the duplication across presets, which potentially gets quite substantial space savings (variable, but best case could be more than an order of magnitude, depending on what was really going on), and change the storage format to use ~20% less space.
 
The death spell spam is deeply concerning. Since there is a market for that, I feel unsafe. I work on a product that I feel might upset some users enough so they'd want to take out their frustration on the developer.
I don't really want to die because of a confusing set of decisions taken without me having much of a say.
 
10:13 AM
@VLAZ Have you considered hiring the love spell spammers to change the users' minds?
 
@RyanM Smart move
 
 
1 hour later…
11:32 AM
 
11:43 AM
 
Hallo šŸ¤—
 
@SurajRao It is just asking for an algorithm. They say they have a solution but want a better performing one. There is nothing to show their ideas or attempts at a better algorithm. I would like to say "too broad", but needs focus seems good.
Needs clarity is better.
 
12:07 PM
@SurajRao That's spam, pure and simple
 
 
1 hour later…
 
 
2 hours later…
3:02 PM
If I mistakenly did an "improve edit" rather than what (with hindsight) should probably have been "reject and edit", should I do anything about it, or just let it go? (I've already corrected the issues I misread: thought tags were added rather than removed.)
 
Let it go :) Their lucky day
 
Heh.
Actually, it wasn't such a terrible suggested edit, at all. Just didn't see why they removed the C++ tag from a question that was quite clearly about C++.
 
I don't believe there's anything you could do about it if you wanted to
 
@CodyGray I could request a review vacation.
 
3:08 PM
The purpose of those is to get people to realize and reflect upon their mistakes. It's therefore pointless to give them out upon request of the reviewer.
 
@AdrianMole For whom? ;)
 
All teh reviewerz.
Let us all "reflect" on the reviews queues and "realize" that they're broken.
 
after reflexion, plays requiem for the review queue of the day
 
Now there's an idea: A "review queue of the day" feature. We could have "First Answer Fridays", "Suggestions on Saturdays" ...
"WTF Wednesdays?"
 
I am not too sure about these "ideas"
 
3:34 PM
When some says, in their "Thank-you" non-answer that they "made my account to thank you" ... makes the reviewer's task all that much more brutal.
... when adding the "Please don't use answers to say thanks..." canned comment.
 
3:56 PM
Does anyone remember what the time is before accepting a self-answer?
 
@AdrianMole No one remembers; they check the documentation
 
Checked already. Need to correct my comment elsewhere.
 
Oddly, I remember the URL page slugs for this documentation. So that's something.
 
I used Google.
So, the 15 minutes is between posting a question and accepting any answer? I'm sure I have 15 minutes in my memory banks from somewhere.
 
@AdrianMole Yes, that's correct; any non-self answer.
Intriguingly, one also earns 15 reputation for having an answer accepted.
@JeanneDark Isn't that nice? :-( +2 score for not even knowing what the question is about.
 
4:02 PM
Note that the question needs to be at east 48 hours old, not the self-answer to accept
 
@CodyGray Well, it was posted ~10 years ago and, like they said, it would take ~10 years.
 
@CodyGray I should start answering questions to increase my reputation.
 
C++ questions are generally answered in 15 seconds.
 
@JeanneDark Ah, good point. That is not at all what the Help Center page implies, and, unless I specifically give it some thought (e.g., the option to post the answer at the same time as the question), not what I would intuitively think.
@AdrianMole So we should not have deleted it, in case they have an update for us?
 
Meh.
 
4:04 PM
@JeanneDark Worked for me! You need to pump up that score by the time of the next mod election, methinks.
 
Does the mod team have a Dark mode?
 
@CodyGray No doubt, I would have an even more interesting comment thread than Dharman
 
I dunno. I don't use dark mode. I'm always light and cheery.
It would be no different than any other Team. I suspect there is a dark mode. That is probably why they actually implemented dark mode in the first place, because some Teams customer demanded it.
 
You use Snark mode
4
 
It is the best mode
 
4:13 PM
Is this just NAA? Or is it a deeply-buried rhetorical whatsit?
 
@AdrianMole It does not try to answer the question -> NAA
 
@AdrianMole You mean the answer to "Send mail from Flutter Web" being "send an email to the users who are registered with you"?
 
I know less about Flutter than I do about Mongolian cuisine. Maybe they're suggesting something like trying something with some users?
I already NAA flagged it - just had an inkling of doubt.
 
Looks like a new question to me, not an answer. A comment asking for clarification at best.
 
Well, let's see what transpires...
 
@Turing85 I did likewise but no joy. I guess it needs unanimous votes.
 
@rene can you delete this message of mine since it is in violation of the SOCVR FAQ?
 
4:44 PM
posted on October 16, 2021

https://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/370872 is starting soon. Only SEDE will be affected, if there is any user-visible disruption at all.

 
^ how do you ask that seriously?
 
Meh. Just send them the entire Stack Exchange Network code base.
 
@SurajRao Step 1. Very seriously click the "Close" button.
 
5:01 PM
@JeanneDark what can give a lot of reputation? Except bonuses from the site? Headhunters can offer to you a job?
 
Nothing
 
they are internet points. You could get a hammer though
 
@JeanneDark or maybe you are also banned šŸ˜
Like I
 
They probably forgot to ban me
 
5:05 PM
@Makyen thx
 
np
 
@JeanneDark i don't know, when my ban will die(
 
Is there any inheritance expected?
 
Well, you get a chance to post a well-received question or answer every six months.
 
5:22 PM
 
6:17 PM
Is this question stackoverflow.com/questions/18338178 on-topic?
 
@cigien It's about publishing software on a 3rd party repository and not programmatically.
 
Ok, thanks.
 
@cigien it also looks like a reccomendation request
 
Do you mean the "a clear set of guidelines or rules on how/when to apply for ..." part?
 
yes
 
6:27 PM
Yeah, I think that's valid as well. I went with Braiam's reason for my CV though.
 
no worries, I followed up VTC'ing as a RR
 
o/
\o
 
 
1 hour later…
 
8:44 PM
posted on October 16, 2021

Maintenance complete.  https://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/370872/planned-sede-maintenance-scheduled-for-oct-15-2021-and-oct-16-2021-1500-1700

 
 
1 hour later…
10:14 PM
I would think we'd close it as lacks reproducible example before shoveling it over at tex.se?
The links to meta posts in the tag description seem to indicate that the consensus would be that is on-topic for SO, while possibly better supported at tex.se
 
10:29 PM
@desertnaut FYI OP edited.
 
@FĆ©lixAdriyelGagnon-Grenier Fair enough.
 
Programmers are terrible typesetters
 
11:13 PM
@bad_coder thanks
@Makyen @Machavity please dump my request: chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/53258992#53258992
 
1 message moved to SOCVR /dev/null, by request
 
@Makyen could you pleas take a look at this question - the comment section there is "spammed" with toxic discussion that imho is not relevant to the topic also technical incorrect (stating that className is invalid even though it is labeld as reactjs)
 
@tacoshy FYI, generally it isn't considered urgent beyond raising a flag. Because rude/abusive flags are high priority in the moderator queue and will quickly have eyes on them.
 
@tacoshy Please don't ping moderators for things which can/should be handled via flags. We have a specific rule against doing so in here. It's fine for you to ask us for advice on how to better communicate the issue with moderators (e.g. as has already been/is being discussed), but we don't want moderators to feel that their being here in SOCVR is an invitation for them to be asked to do even more moderation tasks.
 
alright sorry for that. I though bringing it to your attention would me more helpfull then raising 9 flags on the same question
 
11:23 PM
@tacoshy everyone does it when they first join a room with moderators... (I did it.)
 
@tink (not that it makes a real difference) isn't it a question about server administration rather then general computing?
 

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