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5:00 PM
@Bracketworks and there I was thinking these things only happen to me
 
and it's opaque
 
@Mhjr Well, the worst that can happen, is that someone does it before you; however that's not always a bad thing. Keep at it, learn from the mistakes of your ambitious and early competitor; do a better job.
 
it's just one thing lol
i am cashless to buy the domain
and if someone gets it before me
then
...
 
@Mhjr your idea depends on the domain name?! Oo
 
@Mhjr If your whole idea relies on a clever domain name, then your whole idea is poop.
@Gordon lol, beat me to it.
 
5:02 PM
no the name i came up with is cool
 
@TillHelgeHelwig so,what you are saying is it does not have access to execute this command, so how can i give root permission to this php file to execute the command? ,i have also tried sudo but it's not working — Natto 5 mins ago
Yeah. Give root rights to your webserver. Great idea. :D
 
is there a book that teaches you how to develop your ideas
 
@Mhjr Don't get me wrong, a name is important; a good one. I'm stuck working in marketing, basically as their own mini-one-person IT dept (but I digress) so I see alot of this shit all the time.
 
since i made like 100 pages and i am lost
time to work on it, i should probably smoke to calm my self
goodbye
 
@Mhjr Also, most any idea is going to need some up-front investment (yes, even open-source driven applications written in your mother's basement on a computer you got for your birthday)
 
5:06 PM
@Mhjr bye and gl
 
I wonder what his idea was.
We should ask him when he comes back ;)
 
Bez
Have anyone tried working with JIRA and their OAuth authentication scheme?
 
Anybody knows of some smart way to log queries (i.e. the number of queries per request)?
 
mysqlnd uh?
 
5:17 PM
What is an mysql?
 
@PeeHaa decorator if cant use mysqlnd uh
 
Wow...that guy. Types the question into Google, posts the first hit as answer and afterwards comments on the question saying it's a really good question. :D --> stackoverflow.com/questions/15313542/…
 
hmmmmm yeah obviously... thanks both :-) Drinking doesn't do the thinking process any good atm :P
 
This could also be a delv-pls, but as I can't delete vote...
 
i solved my issue.
not looking carefully was my issue...thanks for your time @PeeHaa
 
5:25 PM
hehe np. Glad you have resolved your issue
 
So one of my flags was disputed, but the answer i flagged was still deleted
:|
 
@Hiroto it happens
Disputed means that a 10k+ user said it was invalid
 
@PeeHaa i hate Disputed. it makes the entire flagging process unpredictable
 
it was a "it worked for me too" answer
that is textbook not an answer
 
@Gordon Yep. I fully agree with that sentiment
@Hiroto I'm not saying I didn't agree. It's just some 10k+ user who tought so
Basically it sucks, but meh shit happens
The thing was deleted either way so all is good
Useful
in JavaScript, yesterday, by phenomnomnominal
http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/161359
 
@Hiroto Why?
 
mysql_* makes me sad. :(
other than that it's a valid question :p
 
I just went through the options of cv reason and I don't see a "makes me sad" option
:)
 
user895378
I've been going around in logic loops on this ... say you have an "internal" class Foo that handles a lot of implementation-specific details. Other "internal business logic" classes use Foo's public interface heavily. Meanwhile, you want to expose a very limited subset of Foo's API as part of a front-facing class with which third-party code interacts (Bar). So my question is ...
 
It would be quite the bonfire if you killed all questions containing mysql_* stuff with fire. ;)
 
user895378
5:33 PM
is this a terrible solution:
 
@TillHelgeHelwig we already use a flamethrower :3
 
user895378
Bar::__construct(callable $functionalityA, callable $functionalityB)
 
@PeeHaa should be on serverfault or dba though
 
Fair enuf
 
user895378
Bar should only have access to a very limited subset of Foo's functionality. Injecting Bar with the Foo instance would give it too much knowledge from under the hood.
 
5:35 PM
@rdlowrey i dont understand the description. If you want to expose only a smaller portion of code, use another class exposing that portion only. think facade pattern
 
user895378
Well my problem is I've hit the "good enough" wall. I've refactored the same functionality about 20 times now. I'm basically asking permission to create an object that just says, "give me the damn callables I need and stop spending days on the same problem" :)
 
@Hiroto its narq since there is nothing we can answer
 
user895378
Also, the problem is complicated because performance is critical and proper OO treatment with proxy methods slows things down significantly ...
 
5:40 PM
@rdlowrey only you can justify that decision
 
user895378
That's the problem! I can't decide and I keep retracing my steps. I worry that if I hit my performance goals the code will be spaghetti and I'll come back to it and be like, "WTF."
 
:P
@Gordon Please give the guy a break. He is clearly struggling... ;-)
 
user895378
just ignore my whining :)
 
:P
 
Is it just me, or does nobody realize you can leave PHP mode, and re-enter?
 
5:43 PM
@rdlowrey i dont understand the callables. do you want to put array($foo, 'fn') there?
 
?>Hi, I don't get parsed, and go directly to the output stream, but nobody seems to understand that.<?php
 
user895378
@Gordon yes.
 
@Bracketworks anyone who is a PHP developer knows that. Problem is, many of the tags are filled with people who have never written a line of code in their life and read some crappy web tutorial on forms
 
user895378
I want to pass only the callables and not give the front-facing class access to anything else in the public API of the underlying class.
 
@rdlowrey and you are absolutely sure that Bar::__construct(new Guarded($foo)) will be too slow?
 
5:45 PM
@Hiroto Yea; Wordpress ruined it for all of us.
 
user895378
@Gordon No it's not that -- it's that Bar shouldn't have access to the other functionality exposed by the guarded $foo instance.
 
@rdlowrey but you can control what Bar can access from Foo through Guarded
 
user895378
OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.
 
user895378
<-- sometimes it takes a while, but the light does eventually flicker on.
 
anyone uses php ?
 
user895378
5:48 PM
@Gordon you're a hero. Rubber Duck +1
 
@rdlowrey Oo
 
@donotusetabtodigitthisnick No we all use assembly and hard-wire.
 
@Bracketworks oh good, i tought it was a php chat
good!
 
@Bracketworks no. i use flapping of the wings of butterflies
@rdlowrey so that solved the problem?
 
So I'm working on a CMS, but the hydraulic XOR gates aren't working correctly, and keep leaking every time I try to log in as a non-existent user. Should I monkey patch the initialization logic with duct-tape or some sort of epoxy?
 
5:50 PM
@Gordon M A S T E R
 
user895378
@Gordon Yeah, I'm not sure why I felt the need to use callables instead of a facade in the first place.
 
user895378
Public Service Announcement: when someone helps you in chat, please take a moment to see if they have an -worthy answer.
6
 
@rdlowrey well, I guess I am rubber duck then ;) you are welcome
 
@rdlowrey You can go and start modifying the code then you will remember why you didn't use it.
Or, you will regret even more of not being using it.
 
user895378
@Alexander lol maybe. That does happen often.
 
5:52 PM
@Alexander thats from an XKCD
 
@Gordon yes, i know.
The real programmers stuff that starts with the emacs v vim conundrum
 
21 messages moved to bin
Big-0 Notation explained johndcook.com/asymptotic_notation.html
 
@Gordon That was a big sweep.
s becoming boring
 
6:11 PM
research sucks. it feels like digging into an endless iceberg
10 you hack away the tip of it
20 start to dig in
30 go deeper
40 goto 30
2
 
@Gordon Damn it you fixed the syntax error!
 
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/15314076/using-mysql-is-it-necessary-to-mention-the-columns-in-same-order-as-in-the-inde#15314179

Two opposite answers. Who's right?
 
@Hast I'd say EXPLAIN doesn't lie
 
lol true
 
user895378
 
6:26 PM
where dat screen?
 
user895378
On the "Review Suggested Edits" page ... don't think you have access until 10k :)
 
wait? what? @webarto doesnt have 10k?
Y U GUYZ LET ME TALK TO HIM THEN???
:P
j/k
<3
 
user895378
Y U NOT USE AUTO-IGNORE <10K PLUGIN???
 
I brought shame to the family.
 
@webarto SHAEM
(morning, afternoon, evening)
 
6:30 PM
@rdlowrey CANNOT AFFFOAD AS PATANTIAL MOD TO IGNOAR PPLZ
 
user895378
Ah, good point.
 
@Gordon U PATANTIAL MAWD?
 
user895378
Voting Question: do I have to vote 2nd and 3rd choices for my vote to count?
 
Sounds like a good question for the election room
 
6:32 PM
@Lusitanian YES!
 
@Gordon YEY
 
@rdlowrey NO!
 
Loyal to the family.
 
@webarto U VOT 4 GORE DAN
 
user895378
Sweet. I'd prefer to only vote @Gordon #1 and not do 2nd/3rd choices to avoid bolstering the competition.
 
6:34 PM
@rdlowrey That's actually available a lot earlier. I've been seeing it for quite a while now.
 
user895378
@TillHelgeHelwig Oh really? Maybe I never cared before and only found a sense of duty after 10k/
 
@rdlowrey i voted for Andrew Barber with my 1st vote
 
user895378
He's going to win either way.
 
Yeah I review suggested edits all the time.
and by all the time I mean when I have literally nothing else to do
 
I'm getting annoyed at the crap edits people approve sometimes.
So I tend to avoid that interface mostly.
 
6:35 PM
I always feel like I hit reject too much, but man are some of the edits awful
 
user895378
some most
 
Once I had some kid edit one post after another replacing all occurrences of "I" with "i". -.-
 
@Lusitanian I hit "Edit" too much because of that
 
In what situations could using HTTP headers to detect mobile browsers fail?
 
@Baumr In every situation where the browser doesn't care to tell you that it's running on a mobile device. ;)
 
6:37 PM
@Baumr Any situation were someone modify its HTTP headers
 
user895378
HTTP headers are always under the control of the user-agent making the request.
 
user895378
User-Agent: browser detection is riddled with problems
 
user895378
^ Detect THAT!
 
@TillHelgeHelwig Yup, but looking more into...
 
i always set the user agent in php.ini or bootstrap
 
6:38 PM
@Alexander ...things like this! How can that happen?
 
Blame the extensions, AFAIK there are plugins to modify headers and stuff nowadays
 
@rdlowrey True, but can something along the way influence it?
@rdlowrey LOL!
 
user895378
@Baumr Any hop or proxy server along the way certainly can.
 
2
Q: I need to write a web crawler for specific user agent - please help

Steve RodrigueI need to write a web crawler, and want to be able to crawl using a known user agent. For example, I want my crawler to act as an iphone to crawl the mobile site of a website, then crawl again using Mozilla PC agent, etc. That way, Ill be able to crawl every "type" of site (mobile & PC). H...

 
@Lusitanian I liked that, why delete? :D
 
6:40 PM
@Baumr ;)
in protest of the googles.
 
@rdlowrey So if the user is using a proxy -- ah, good call. But what's the hop?
 
@Baumr I dare say that most likely this will occurr if someone fiddles around with his device...and in that case they ought to be aware that it might cause odd behavior...I think you can assume that most "normal" users will have a "normal" request header.
 
@TillHelgeHelwig Ah, right. Makes sense.
 
user895378
@Baumr Your packets generally bounce off lots of servers between your machine and the destination server. If your transfer isn't encrypted (SSL/TLS), any one of them could modify it if they were feeling malicious.
 
@TillHelgeHelwig But trying to figure out more weak areas
 
user895378
6:42 PM
If you're concerned about it, TLS is a must.
 
@rdlowrey Ah, interesting. But what about not being malicious -- simply an accident?
 
user895378
@Baumr No, no middleman server in the internet is going to "accidentally" modify your request headers.
 
@rdlowrey I see, pretty puzzling...
 
user895378
What's puzzling?
 
user895378
Even when you're encrypting your messages via SSL/TLS if you don't verify the peer in your SSL settings you could be the subject of a Man-in-the-Middle attack.
 
6:44 PM
Some background info: was assesssing dynamic detection vs. responsive -- and someone mentioned that HTTP headers didn't work for them once because of "reason X" for a clients site. They found what it was and fixed it.

Little pop quiz to figure out what it is. I have no more specifics. Just wondering.
@rdlowrey Ah, interesting -- who is the peer in TLS?
 
user895378
The server to which you're sending your request. SSL certificates have "identity" information built into them. When negotiating a secure connection you can choose whether or not to verify that the "identity" of the certificate presented by the other party is vouched for by a trusted certificate authority.
 
user895378
Often times people will just turn off peer-verification because it's "easier".
 
@rdlowrey Ah, thanks thanks! (I just thought that the peer was something in between secure server and the user agent -- being TLS that confusde me.)
 
user895378
Problem is, if you aren't verifying the identity of the server you're connecting to then anyone could be on the other end. In that case the encryption won't help you.
 
@rdlowrey Or because they are using an old root cert
 
user895378
6:47 PM
@PeeHaa That too.
 
user895378
There's really not a good excuse for not staying current, though, if your data is sensitive.
 
@rdlowrey Aaaaah, now I get it -- so basically you can either have signed SLL or unsigned. If it's unsigned, there can be a risk of HTTP header injection, or other MITM attacks?
 
Nopez. not at all @rdlowrey
 
user895378
@Baumr Well, all certs are signed. Some are just self-signed.
 
By current do you mean getting a cert signed by someone else trusted?
@rdlowrey Ah, yeah, course. My bad
Anyway, apart from malicious attacks, can there be any other reason why the wrong or no HTTP header information about the type of device would be passed on to a site?
 
user895378
6:51 PM
@Baumr That's part of it ... all certs are valid for a specified time period (usually a year) because that limits the usefulness of a compromised certificate (say you posted your cert passphrase on the internet like a moron). But you have to have root certificates that define what signing authorities are trusted as "able to verify" peer certificates.
 
user895378
Those root certificate authorities are updated or changed over time, so you need to update those as well.
 
Very interesting.
 
user895378
@Baumr Proxy servers. That's the only other way.
 
Unless sensitive information is being passed, however, no real need for SSL?
 
@Baumr That's part of it ... all certs are valid for a specified time period (usually a year) because that limits the usefulness of a compromised certificate makes you buy a fresh one every year
;)
 
user895378
6:53 PM
@PeeHaa Yeah, mostly that :)
 
Hahaha :D
 
user895378
@Baumr Any data you send that's not encrypted with SSL/TLS can potentially be read by anyone between your machine and the server it's talking to. If you're okay with that, then no, you don't need encryption.
 
Because, in this case, the HTTP header method wasn't working in a situation where two different sites needed to be served -- a mobile vs. desktop. So, not really worth paying for SSL, and they managed to fix the problem whatever it was... and I doubt they fixed it with encryption.
 
user895378
@Baumr Sounds like user error to me.
 
Seems like overkill to be using SSL for more accurate browser sniffing :D
 
6:54 PM
@PeeHaa startcom certs are free
 
@Lusitanian Nice!
@Lusitanian How do they make money? And is it hard to get validated?
 
user895378
@Lusitanian Do you know if their certs are included in the major browser vendor certificate authority lists?
 
i use startcom's certificates
it's easy, and they make a profit from class 3 validation
 
@rdlowrey yes, I use them for all of my personal sites and whatnot
@Baumr they send and email and you're done
they make money if you need wildcard certs / class 2 or 3 validation
for EV certs, etc
 
@rdlowrey Hmmm... so how would they fix that?
 
user895378
6:56 PM
@Lusitanian Ah.
 
@Lusitanian Wow, sounds good. Thanks!
 
user895378
@Baumr No way to know without seeing what they were doing wrong.
 
but they're still way cheaper than other options
 
@Lusitanian aaaah no wildcard certs
 
user895378
@PeeHaa That's a bummer.
 
6:56 PM
@PeeHaa yeah but they're still way cheaper for wildcards than other options
@PeeHaa 2 year wildcard for the cost of validation, which is like $60
 
you need to pay like $50 one-time for a wildcard/code-signing/token-auth class 2
 
user895378
I mean, if you have sensitive data ~$30/yr is nothing. Not compared to compromised data, anyway.
 
indeed
 
@Lusitanian That's indeed cheap
 
@rdlowrey Hmmm, of course. But what kind of user errors could they be?
@PeeHaa what special about a wildcard cert?
 
6:58 PM
class 1 is server/client ssl + since domain + email
single*
 
user895378
@Baumr When I say user error, I mean not recognizing and compensating for how a proxy is modifying your headers.
 
@Hiroto 1 email, or more?
 
as many as you have
 
@rdlowrey But the proxy would be on the users side, no?
 
you just need to confirm the email
 
6:59 PM
@rdlowrey Or could that be on the server/local part of the site?
 
@Baumr You can use it on your entire domain
 
you also get a free client one to log into your admin panel
 
user895378
@Baumr Could be on either end or both.
 
@PeeHaa actually you get unlimited wildcard certs for any domains for the cost of validation
@PeeHaa so depending on how many domains you have...
 
yup. unlimited :3
 
6:59 PM
@PeeHaa Ah, but what about a regular one? Isn't that the same?
 
lol I feel like we're tag team marketing
 
@Lusitanian :D
 
@Baumr no you'll only get it for 1 or two hosts normally
 
@Lusitanian Feels like it
 
user895378
FWIW, my websocket implementation will soon be able to serve websocket apps on the same domain as regular php apps. So I'll be using those free class 1 certs -- who needs wildcards for subdomains! :)
 
7:00 PM
@PeeHaa But if your whole domain is on a single host?
 
I feel so meta, now.
 
@Baumr I meant subdomains
something.example.com
 
@rdlowrey Interesting, interesting indeed!
@PeeHaa Aaaah, that's what I suspected!
@PeeHaa So that's why sometimes you get errors "are you sure" when you're switching subdomains on a buying site
 
user895378
mysite.com/chat <-- php websocket endpoint
mysite.com/ <-- regular php app
 
@PeeHaa So, RyanAir have a wildcard cert, because ur browsing on ryanair.com and then buy on bookryanair.com or something -- seamlessly -- right?
 
7:02 PM
No those are two separate domains
 
@PeeHaa Right right, I just mean they have a wildcard cert
 
user895378
I think you mean "book.ryanair.com" right?
 
@PeeHaa well, to be fair, they could have a cert for *.com ;)
 
@rdlowrey nope!
 
@Lusitanian Yeah they totally could :D
 
user895378
7:03 PM
oh, then @PeeHaa is right, those are different hosts altogether.
 
@PeeHaa I want one like that
 
@Baumr, a cert for my domain, www.r-a-d.io, is also valid for r-a-d.io
 
@Lusitanian Break into the ICANN in that case :)
 
user895378
Sign me up for the *.com cert, too!
 
lol
 
7:04 PM
the reality is that most people just click through those warnings anyway
making SSL effectively useless for identity validation
 
4 messages moved to bin
@Lusitanian The entire system is flawed either way
 
i remember self signing a certificate and adding the root to my system. the domain was "localhost", and chrome nearly had a heart attack
 
i have a self signed *.dev cert which i trust
 
The so called trusted authorities are not really that trustworthy
 
user895378
I think @Lusitanian has officially earned the title ... "the most remover"
 
7:06 PM
Do I get a badge for that? :D
 
2 messages moved to bin
:)
 
user895378
That's in contrast to @tereško, who is officially the "most advicer"
 
rawr.
 
user895378
May 11 '12 at 19:41, by gosto
the most advicer i knew here in chat its you @tereško
 
AHHHHHH, yes, of course, the most advicer
 
7:06 PM
So by proxy do you mean a proxy server that the user is using via their browser (or something like hidemyass.com) or can it be something "normal" that can happen? Or perhaps the user checking from their work internet that has some proxy? Or McDonalds free WiFi? Things like that? Or is there something else that can be this "proxy"?

What about on the server side -- so, the path between the actual website and the user, but which is still controlled by this company that was having problems?
 
woah, that message is from before I started gracing this room with my presence annoying the crap out of you all
 
> "The server identified itself as "localhost", but you tried to connect to "localhost". The only thing we can confirm is that the certificate matches "localhost" and is valid
Oh chrome.
on my dev machine i have *.local for vhosts now
 
user895378
@Baumr All of those things are in play. On the server end it could be something like a front-facing load-balancer distributing requests to backend machines that's modifying headers as they arrive before passing the requests on for processing.
 
@rdlowrey Ah very interesting!
 
1 hour ago, by rdlowrey
Public Service Announcement: when someone helps you in chat, please take a moment to see if they have an -worthy answer.
this is so true important for our rep-farming needs
 
user895378
7:11 PM
lol mostly that ^
 
I know, I feel like I should make a question out of what I've just asked you guys :P

Would it be a useful question for the community?
 
user895378
I know I'm not all altruism.
 
@Hiroto LMFAO!
 
@rdlowrey textspeak
aw you fixed it
 
user895378
I've been typing too many Y U NO GUY statements.
 
7:11 PM
@rdlowrey Wow, so it can be a DNS server?! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Load_balancing_(computing)
 
round robin DNS works for load balancing but meh
if your audience is sufficiently geographically diverse, i believe
 
@rdlowrey HAHA! From wiki: "HTTP security: ..., remove server identification headers from HTTP responses"
 
round robin DNS loadbalancing is pretty bad when something breaks
 
i think it's more useful to load balance between load balancers ;)
 
user895378
@Baumr I guess. The point is that any machine between the client and the server that actually services the request can potentially modify anything about the request.
 
7:13 PM
@rdlowrey encryption is your best friend :3
 
user895378
Yeah, more and more I wonder why everything on the internet isn't encrypted.
 
@rdlowrey lol I use HSTS for everything...no idea why people don't SSL encrypt all the things
 
@rdlowrey Interesting. I don't have the details, but it sounded as if this wasn't happening with everyone -- but also ddidnt sound like it was just one visitor... so you're probably right before, that it could be on the client or user side. So interesting man! Thanks
@rdlowrey Gets me excited about backend :D
 
he once got blocked from posting in chat for making a joke like that
i found it amusing
 
@Lusitanian I had forced HTTPS on all my domains at one point. i also use SSL for irc
 
7:15 PM
@Hiroto :D :D
 
user895378
I did. 30 minute ban.
 
user895378
Okay. Time to code.
 
Alright peeps
This has been enlightening and helpful :)
Thanks to all!
I'm outta here
 
user895378
@Baumr later
 
7:19 PM
14 messages moved to bin
 
in htaccess we can set include path, is there a way to set fopen path?
like in my htaccess php_value include_path ".;D:\wamp\www\saado"
so whenever im including a file the path gets appended, but now i want the path to get appended to fopen as-well
 
What use would that be?
I doubt there is something like that.
 
bez otherwise i have to use get_include_path and append it to the file i want to open
if i get set in htaccess it would be much helpful
and easier
 
user895378
@Lusitanian Thanks for the heads-up on cert.startcom.org ... that's awesome!
 
@rdlowrey :D
i love those guys
 
user895378
7:40 PM
It actually sounds like a solid business model too.
 
it is
 
user895378
They're going to get my business going forward because of it, anyway.
 
btw wasn't startcom startssl in the past?
 
@meWantToLearn fopen() actually has a parameter that will tell it to use the include path.
 
@PeeHaa their ssl is still called startssl i think
 
7:42 PM
:P
 
user895378
Which domain registrar do you guys prefer?
 
@rdlowrey dynadot, no question whatsoever
 
Now I know what I remember those jews from
 
they have a two factor auth app for iphone/android
they're cheap, and they actually answer their damn phone
and no upselling bullshit
can't recommend them enough
though I don't use their DNS, I use dnsimple for that
 
Once again, I'm back. I can't ask anyone in HTML room cause no one's there!
Anyways, the question is, if I have two DIV's side by side using display:inline-block with the left one being a fixed size, how can I make the second (right) one fill the rest of the space?
 
7:45 PM
that moment when you are thinking more about naming shit instead of writing code the entire day :(
 
no one feeling it?
 
@DemCodeLines Surround them with a div, set its height to the fixed height of your first div and then set the height to 100% for both of the inner divs. Would be my only idea...other than using JS.
I don't really have a clue though...never had much interest in this annoying CSS layouting/positioning stuff.
 
I mean, its literally a sidebar kinda layout
except one div is side bar, second one is a container. in the second one, there is a div inside it which is centered
[sidebar][ [centered div] ]
 
@DemCodeLines show me the jsfiddle of what you have now
 
7:58 PM
any of the chrome users can check their Task Manager and tell me if they have 15 chrome* processes running, too
 
There isnt really a HTML room so, say i have this

<ul>
  <li contenteditable="true">hello</li>
</ul>

how would it be possible when editing hello on a new line to make a new <li>?
 

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