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17:00
@Sawny Don't worry.
I pretty much understand you.
Ok. But I don't understand what @tereško wants to test. Obviously not the returning value from $foo->getSomething('lorem ipsum sit dolor amet');.
17:27
hi i created a function called updateStatus.. then added it to my init function like this,
setInterval(updateStatus, 1000)
@Sawny
Hi @daknøk
What’s up?
nvm, it works now..
@daknøk nothing. one more boring sunday :)
17:31
cool :p
I’m working on a web app, nothing special either.
@daknøk Er du dansk?
what does it do?
@Sawny No.
@NikiC people can share short stories.
lol
But I’m primarily making it for learning new things.
17:33
what you write it in?
Haskell, using Happstack.
LESS and IcedCoffeeScript with jQuery for the front-end.
then I guessed right. "learning new things" can really only be haskell ^^
iced is the one with deferring?
Yup.
Saves a lot of indentation. :P
not a fan of coffeescript
Me neither, but ICS has await and defer.
17:35
yeah
TameJS has that too, which is a superset of JavaScript, but its parser is crappy and not conformant.
sadly TypeScript doesn't have it ^^
Or maybe not sadly, who knows
Wish browsers ran bytecode rather than JavaScript.
Then I could use Haskell.
compile haskell to js ;)
I heard that JS is compiled faster than the JVM can verify the bytecode :D
hi :)
17:38
hey @hakre
@hakre we have a guest from the PHP hater lounge :)
lol
I have to use PHP for a school project. :(
ah, you must be thoroughly enjoying that :P
Took me two hours to find out why the following didn’t work with PDO:
foreach ($bindings as $k => $v) {
    $stmt->bindParam($k, $v);
}
bindParam doesn’t copy the values, it takes them by reference. ;_;
@daknøk Forgot the reference?
So I had to use bindValue instead.
17:41
Heh
yes, because that is what you wanted I'd say ^^
We could have told in that in ten seconds :)
But yes, PDO tutorials seem to put much emphasis on bindParam over bindValue. I didn't have to use bindParam a single time...
I don’t see why one would ever want to use bindParam.
@daknøk Oh, it's useful if you want to run a prepared statement multiple times. You can then bind the variables and just have to populate them ;)
You just very rarely do that ;)
Which leads to code that is complexer and less maintainable by a factor 1000 due to state and dependencies.
17:45
maybe, maybe. never really used it, so can't tell
But yeah, function calls in PHP are slow so it might be the only option if you need to do it quickly with a few million iterations.
And that's also one of the reasons why mysqli sucks. afaik it has only ref bindings, no val bindings :/
lolwut
Isn’t there a way to copy an object?
@daknøk $copy = clone $obj;
17:48
another thing that I use very rarely. not much cloning to do in php ^^
How does memory management work in PHP by the way?
@daknøk Reference counting with additional cycle collector
When are resources such as files or db connections being released?
PHP hasn’t got a with statement like Python has AFAIK.
what have i missed ?
it hasn't
5.5 will have finally though ^^
17:49
Say I use fopen, when is the file being closed?
At the end of the script?
@daknøk as soon as the value holding the resource is unused
Ah I see.
So usually that's at the end of the function ;)
so PHP doesn't really need with. most resources are released automagically.
Most? What about the other ones?
@daknøk Well, there are "global" resources. E.g. if you open a mysql connection using mysql_connect it will stay alive until it is either explicitly closed or until the end of the request.
17:52
Ah okay.
Need help. Any cakephp developer around?
Yeah Haskell has a bracket function which is similar to with in Python.
18:06
Yo
you really should avoid that framework
at least till you can explain SRP in your own words
single responsibility..hehe
hiya all
@PeeHaa wassap
@tereško can i shoot you a few best practice web questions?
@InGodITrust Go ahead
@MadaraUchiha thanks
@InGodITrust Don't ask to ask, just ask.
hoping to make a small company soon to develop websites, I got pretty command of PHP etc etc. @MadaraUchiha
Is it usual to have a reseller account for your customers websites?
18:52
What do you mean?
When a custmoer comes to me to make them a website, do I have to have a reseller account as a hosting package and craete for them a cpanel
@InGodITrust I think you could provide that service, yes.
@MadaraUchiha is that what all you experienced web programmers do?
or is there something else possible here
When I was a freelancer, I made very small sites, which fit nicely on my regular free hosting account
So I used that.
@MadaraUchiha without reseller? So the client never logged in to cpanel?
18:55
No.
The clients I usually dealt with, didn't want anything to do with it
A quick CMS to add pages/images/content, and forget.
did you write your own cms or use an existing one
@MadaraUchiha so you basically registered thier domain name for them, and added it as an addon domain onto your regular hosting account?
@InGodITrust Once, because even Wordpress was too complex for him, I whipped up something very quickly
@InGodITrust Yes
@MadaraUchiha thanks for this valubale info,
@InGodITrust But that was when I was a freelancer
I didn't have a company, and very rarely had to provide continued service
so lets say a guy comes to me and wants me to make him a small site which he can display pictures and wants to change the pictures every week, would you use wordpress?
Or would you write your own? It can take time to make a site that lets the client upload and delete thier pictures
18:59
@InGodITrust I bet there are easier gallery CMSs out there
If that's the only purpose of the site
So you basically tell the guy YES, and then google an easy CMS for that need? Is that what people do?
@InGodITrust Think of it this way.
It works, and works well. There's no need to re-invent the wheel over something so simple
Part of being a developer in general is to be able to pick the correct tools for the job.
If someone asked you to make them a blog, would you make your own CMS?
No, you'd use Wordpress or a similar one, and apply your own theme over it.
@MadaraUchiha ha ha, nope
I thought so, just heard that most peolpe on SO roll their own, but by the time you finish your lightbox and your upload then it is very expensive
19:01
In the case where someone asks for something truly unique
You'd spend time and make it.
@MadaraUchiha so do you learn all these small CMS's before a request comes or google for them on the sopt?
@InGodITrust When pressed under a deadline, you may not have the luxury of implementing your own solutions to every single one of the clients demands.
@MadaraUchiha I see
Note that I don't say to sacrifice quality. The fact that the site is wordpress based, or whatever other CMS based, doesn't mean the markup shouldn't be perfect, the site should display well on all modern browsers etc.
gotcha,
By the way what is the dif between a company and freelance, surely it is just the number of customers]
19:04
@InGodITrust As far as I understand (English isn't native to me), a freelance is a one-man team.
A company is made of several individuals.
But why would that make a difference in your stlye of work (PS. not bad engish for someone not a native)
@MadaraUchiha Some companies are run by only one person...
@InGodITrust Well, I used to freelance for a while just for some pocket money from the side.
@MadaraUchiha wel i want to make it my source of income
> Freelance: Working for different companies at different times rather than being permanently employed by one company.
19:06
I didn't offer any prolong service, nor did I even advertise myself or had a site of my own.
> Company: A commercial business.
Thank you :)
@MadaraUchiha you didint update their sites? Is that not a usual request?
s/companies/employers
@InGodITrust Aside from very little fixes, they usually updated their own content
19:07
Thanks, lets just summarize a sec:
An average guy wanting an average small site phones you up for a site which has a few pages but the client has to be able to upload, delete photos etc etc.
You tell the guy yes, and then start a search for a CMS which seems to cater just for that, and try to learn how to use it before he discovers you dont yet have a plan
:-)
@InGodITrust Not exactly
@MadaraUchiha care to elaborate?
You pretty much need to learn and know which CMS would work in what situation
Also, you don't have to use a single CMS for the entire site
So I gotta spend time learning a few CMS's? Small ones?
I used to have a site with Wordpress, QuickGallery, and a custom mail form written by hand.
@InGodITrust Know the big ones, Wordpress is valuable, even though it's horribly built
19:10
@MadaraUchiha I see.
It's quick to install, quick to theme, and easy to use.
But you told me Wordpress would be overkill for such a thing. Would it even be possible to set the client up to be able to change the photos pf a gallery in Wordpress?
@InGodITrust You should know wordpress because wordpress is good for a lot of cases
@MadaraUchiha thanks, like what sort of requests?
It's good for a blog, it's good for a decent page based website, you can have comments, it has a large set of plugins
It's very versatile.
WordPress is just an example for a good to know CMS
Search for the CMSs out there, try them out
Use the ones that work best for you
19:13
i fail to see why this would need a CMS
If you don't find anything good enough, make your own.
@MadaraUchiha but when i tell the client that, he might say my friend paid much cheaper to someone else because they used a CMS?
(Just a quick question by the way, how do you bill per hour, do you just tell them the amount and they believe you on the amount of hours)
@tereško @MadaraUchiha last question, thanks for your help. How do you bill per hour, do you just tell them the amount and they believe you on the amount of hours
you could do that too ...
@InGodITrust I used to agree with the client on the price beforehand.
@MadaraUchiha but then you could end up in trouble if takes longer then you thought
@tereško and what else could you do ;)
19:20
@InGodITrust That's your problem, not the client's.
@MadaraUchiha you could just set a price in the amount of hours, what is the usual practice?
@tereško You can use a CMS when a solution is a good fit for the problem at hand, you can save a lot of time by having a CMS and tweaking it.
@InGodITrust you could try this on : desktime.com/?lang=EN
@MadaraUchiha is your design ever different because of a CMS or should it be indentical as if you desinged it from scratch]
@tereško sweet!
Is there anyway to get this to work in IE instead of just Chrome? jsfiddle.net/XQnGB
19:24
Does it work offline? also do most progammers do. Work on trust?
@user1079641 ...which version? IE10?
no
any version of IE
it doesn't work in IE9, so there is no way it will work in IE6,7,8
@tereško and especaiily @MadaraUchiha you have been an unbelievable help!!! Have a great eve!
@user1079641 CSS3 PIE will be able to add the box shadow for IE 6+.
For the appearance... you would have to use background images.
CSS3 PIE supports border-radius, box-shadow and linear-gradient.
@user1079641 Does CSS3 PIE do what you want?
Not really but maybe I should not put so much styling after all.
19:35
There is -ms-appearance, but it was only added recently.
I just need webkit appearance and webkit box shadow to work on IE
@user1079641 box-shadow is easy, appearance is harder.
Why does IE have to be so old-fashioned :((
@user1079641 Because it's old?
19:41
IE9 is not old. Sure its been a year from its release but half the things that work on Chrome don't work on it.
IE uses the Trident rendering engine :P
@user1079641 That's because Chrome is constantly updating
And I am assuming IE doesn't constantly update?
@user1079641 No.
Since Chrome's initial release, the current stable version is 22
Since IE's initial release, the current stable version is 9
19:42
What about nightly builds of Chromium? I'm using version 160853.
@ShaquinTrifonoff I'm talking about stable version, not nightly builds.
I didn't count IE10 either
@MadaraUchiha I know, but still, Internet Explorer doesn't have nightly builds.
@user1079641 Chrome was released about, what, 15? 20? years after the first IE.
This should give you some measurement over the amount each updates.
@user1079641 IE's initial release was on 1994, Chromes on 2008
That's 14 years difference, and, Chrome has over 2 times the versions
@ShaquinTrifonoff afaik, IE is not in any way related to Poseidon or Manannan
19:58
But Chrome is equally as big part of Google as anything else. The same cannot be said of IE and Microsoft. For Microsoft, its Windows, then probably xBox, then SkyDrive/Hotmail, then maybe IE
At least priority-wise
@MadaraUchiha well ... opera (being second oldest mainstream browser) currently is on the 12.x branch
@user1079641 And that's part of the reason IE suck.
then again , other browsers would release opera's x.0 , x.1 , x.5 and x.6 versions as separate releases
also .. why are you talking to the little people ?
@tereško What do you mean?
user1125394
chrome doesnt really use the second version number, "18.0.1025.168"
20:07
But thats the problem. If I create a website, I have to take IE into account because many people still use IE. Younger generation has Chrome, but older people still have IE, which creates major problems. Especially the fact that XP is still very popular around the world and that means IE6, or IE8 at best, IFF those people upgraded the browsers. So you have major problems
@user1079641 Do what I do
If client wants IE support, client pays more.
I spend more hours on your site to make it IE compatible, give me the apprpriate wage.
lol. But its a free website and its not even a job or anything. I just need cross-browser compatibility so users don't run away from the site.
I guess the only way to do it is keep the controls simple instead of adding too much style.
@user1079641 If it's a site for yourself, and you audience are people who use IE, that's too bad for you. You'll have to support it.
Don't be afraid to give them a big fat warning that their browser is very old and they should upgrade immediately unless their computer will explode.
I mean I could just simply refuse IE support and tell them to get a better browser like chrome or firefox, but then again, that will turn them away
After research, I did learn that JQuery is an alternative that will work both in IE and Chrome.
@user1079641 jQuery is a tool, not a magic bullet.
20:19
Yes, what I am trying to say is that JQuery gets the stylings to work cross-browser
Well, anyways, what do you guys think about Windows 8?
lies , all lies
jquery makes everything better
@user1079641 Windows 8 is okay, I've got used to it having no start button.
@MadaraUchiha , you still don't understand what i meant by "talking to the little people" ?
@tereško We (at least I) are here to educate.
Dealing with the "little people" is part of it.
This isn't an expert chat, this is a support chat, with experts hanging around on it.
"little people" are users who are in the ignore lists
@MadaraUchiha People in your ignore list appear smaller.
@ShaquinTrifonoff Thank you captain. You can fly away now.
@MadaraUchiha, could you please pass the following quote from me to user @tereško? "Get a life. The fact that you keep telling others not to help me or talk to me is just immature of you."
24 secs ago, by user1079641
@MadaraUchiha, could you please pass the following quote from me to user @tereško? "Get a life. The fact that you keep telling others not to help me or talk to me is just immature of you."
20:29
Thank You.
@ShaquinTrifonoff ??
@user1079641 Lots of people have been on tereško's (and others) ignore lists...
@ShaquinTrifonoff , dont forget to also look at the context
@ShaquinTrifonoff You'll find a lot of them here as well... chat.stackoverflow.com/…
20:34
or do you begrudge the tools i use for keeping hold on my sanity and temper ?
@tereško I'm fairly certain that ship sailed a long time ago.
2
hmm .. you might have point there
ok ... i guess i will clean up and then get some wine
@tereško Wine? Since when do you drink wine?
i drink lot of stuff .. wine is one of them
I feel people really over-exaggerated the absence of the start menu.
I guess some are just way too resistant to change.
@user1079641 Meh, I see it as a sad attempt to force a mobile OS onto a desktop
Do you have any strong arguments to break that view?
@Jocelyn Now accepting s.
I tried installing a trial of Start8, but I didn't use it.
@MadaraUchiha I'm still very far from privilege
The only strong argument is that keeping it all in one package ensures cross-compatibility and easy to use across different devices.
20:41
Meh
@user1079641 You don't understand, I don't need compatibility over different devices.
I want a decent OS to work with on my desktop.
So what's the problem with the normal desktop?
Mobile windows is not nearly mature or rich enough to be considered a decent player at the mobile market, at the same league of Android or iOS
So I don't give a damn about windows for mobile, I'm sure as hell not going to use it.
Rather, I want a decent desktop OS
That's one of the reasons that I didn't use Start8, I didn't need it.
20:43
Is it or is it not a decent desktop OS?
Could you honestly say it is better than W7, and is worth the upgrade?
iOS sucks as well. They all suck. Mobile OSes all suck big fat hairy cojones.
I do not expect Windows mobile to do anything different.
@Jocelyn Wow, you've been stocking up?
@Jocelyn I'm going to write you your own special cv-helper option to accept multiple URLs
20:46
@MadaraUchiha sadly there is an endless flow of new bad questions every day. And the review page provides plenty too
This new filter review is awesome
@MadaraUchiha Filtering by tag was a very useful improvement. Before that I was too often clicking "Next"
Now they need to work on the flag area (You'll know when you get to 10k)
I love the review mode
Well, for developers, Windows 8 might not be the best thing, especially for those that want traditional forms, but for developer who want metro apps and regular consumers, windows 8 isn't that bad.
@user1079641 You can still create 'normal' Windows applications for Windows 8, they don't have to be Metro apps.
20:55
You can, but I mean, you are encouraged to create metro apps
very effective this evening :-)
@DaveRandom Un-antialiased font...
@ShaquinTrifonoff ?
@DaveRandom Indeed, thanks to filter review :)
@DaveRandom ...What browser is that? The font isn't anti-aliased.
He's about to lose 115 rep out of the blue :D

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