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IGP
12:00 AM
@Crell My current shop doesn't even use repos. I'll be cashing in retirement checks before I have to worry about static analyzers :'(
 
As in, doesn't even use Git?
 
IGP
Precisely
It's a disaster waiting to happen
A ticking time bomb
 
Run.
Do not pass go, do not collect $200, go directly to a new company.
 
12:21 AM
Can I have £200 instead?
 
JRL
does anyone else often find themselves upset when they finally fix an annoying bug?
an annoying bug usually has an annoying cause, so fixing it means finding the cause
 
@IGP hello me, from two years ago
 
IGP
@Tiffany Hello. Does it get any better?
 
@JRL Usually angry at myself for taking so long to figure it out.
 
JRL
12:40 AM
Many thanks for the tip @Trowski. that wasn't the root cause, but it made me look at the spot that was.
 
@JRL upset? if it is finally a fix, then no. more kind of surprised if a recent finally thought fix ain't the fix. surprised in a good sense.
it's also fine for me to have those incremental fixes IMHO, so that you can go on and always come back later without starting from zero.
just edit the history so that it keeps up with the current state of mind. git is a bless.
 
IGP
1:06 AM
@Crell Morbid curiosity keeps me here. If they don't have their shit together by Q4 2022 I will though
 
They'll blame you if anything blows up on your watch, even if it's not your fault. :-)
 
Q4 2022 - sounds like you've got a new assignment to your liking already at that date.
with that much time at hand, then i'd turn the morbid curiosity into a massive amount of cash / fun / whatever your liking is ... .
 
@IGP I found a different job :P
 
@Tiffany my assignments to the php documentation grow slowly if not halted, but I took the opportunity to contribute to the PHP website, too!
 
@IGP it would be worth writing an (anonymized) account of exactly how a company can i) still be going ii) not adopted source control, un the year 2021...
 
1:22 AM
what @Danack wrote, I also was kind of curious how that goes. a "team" within one member? people even used cvs(1) and you somewhat don't even want to use it ... at least not in this millenium.
 
IGP
@Crell I'll just become the un-helpful I-told-you-so guy if that ever happens, while looking at another job. :P
@Danack I don't think they're primarily a dev company, which explains a lot. I'm just there as a consultant so w/e
They're not the ones paying my salary :p
 
but if you're there as a consultant, it normally forbids to exploit them. that's kind of sad, isn't it?
 
1:37 AM
@hakre \o/
 
JRL
oh hmmm
so i think that one of the problems i'm experiencing, is that the zend_call_function can result in a nested call to operator overloads
for instance, inside the operator overload function you compare the $operatorPos argument to OperandPosition::LeftSide or something
but I think this is causing the pointer for the original call stack's argument to be updated
 
@Tiffany it's all because you hitting me on it. :D
@JRL TDD: break it until you make it.
 
1:53 AM
@hakre because you've helped me learn quite a bit over the years :) and you're generally very knowledgeable about PHP
 
@Tiffany Oh, thanks for the flowers :).
And PHP is fine to learn in my eyes, it has never let me down since 3.x and that is quite some time ago.
And also I find Linux quite interesting for computer systems, PHP somewhat brought me to that.
 
JRL
Would appreciate anyone who could review the zend_std_call_op_override. for some reason, it seems the enum cases aren't being passed to the arguments correctly (and there's also a zend mm memory leak somewhere): github.com/JordanRL/php-src/pull/1/…
i'll keep trying on my own obviously, but i feel like im going in circles now
 
@JRL what is your current song suggestion?
I'm pretty much looping youtube.com/watch?v=P3QS83ubhHE
 
IGP
@hakre Define exploit
 
JRL
@hakre we happy few by the calm blue sea
 
2:04 AM
@JRL let me search it up ...
@IGP exploit: noun: to use something to an exceptionally benefit.
@JRL only listening for some seconds, for some reasons it reminds me of youtube.com/watch?v=f34tZJ-AaqM - that is with voice and a bit more calm - maybe you like it.
lol, it's even on the same youtube account, what?
thanks for sharing!
 
JRL
no problem :) it's probably my favorite song even if its not my most listened to song
i have lots of others any time you pose the question again, lol
 
IGP
@hakre I guess it's just not in my nature to exploit them.
 
@IGP I guess it's fine. Didn't want to lurk you into something. A benefit can be compulsory and that's fine, too.
I also enjoy consulting from time to time. Also in integration it's often you can headdesk quite often but then it's just the mental effort to stay calm professionally.
But really, they do coding stuff and don't have version control in 2021? I really have to ask for clarification ... .
 
IGP
2:21 AM
I n my particular case (and from what my contract says), consulting just means I act the part of an employee for this trash heap of a no-repo company while being paid by a parent company
I guess I'm just getting pimped out.
Still, at the end of the day I am just using them as resume filler
 
Well, paid job always means to get pimped out by someone, even if you own the company ;)
 
IGP
True.
 
"Liebe, Schmerz und Arbeit" as some say. If it's just a technical detail, it's perhaps easy to handle for a year or two, best suggestion I can given then is to look for elsewhere while doing so, with the experiences you make on the way.
I'm not overly well doing that, but still it even makes sense for?/to me.
 
 
3 hours later…
JRL
5:50 AM
i give up.
i don't know enough c to fix this problem, i don't know enough about zend to fix this problem
i'm unfortunately going to have to pass this off to someone if the RFC passes, and the patch won't be playable
 
 
2 hours later…
JRL
7:37 AM
well i'll probably bring it back to the list tomorrow for discussion since i have no further progress i can make.
the rfc incorporates attributes and reflection now.
 
 
2 hours later…
Wes
9:32 AM
@DaveRandom the script turned out pretty good. ie the one where i wait that luminance change sticks for a few seconds before applying any color correction
 
10:08 AM
moin moin
 
 
6 hours later…
3:58 PM
o/
 
\o
 
\o
 
@IGP to be clear, finding out that type of info is for your benefit, to avoid making the same kind of mistake, rather than for the benefit of the company.
 
 
1 hour later…
IGP
5:35 PM
Oh yeah, definitely.
First mistake I'll definitely avoid is CakePHP
Everything about that framework is a pain in the ass.
 
lol
 
cake is tasty though.
 
^
 
IGP
Yeah, it is.
But as I'd rather eat cake than leave it on a server.
 
It's been at least 12 years since I haven't looked at cake
and it will be many more
 
IGP
5:39 PM
Say what you will about Laravel's bloat and questionable Wordpress-alization, the docs are good and it works as I expect it to.
 
I'm kind of a symfony guy
 
IGP
I'm thinking about getting into that framework. The project built in the Symfony book seems large enough to be a useful tutorial
 
Some components are good, others are down the cellar of legacyness, the DIC is pretty good tho
 
IGP
Dependency Injection Container? (I'm guessing)
Is symfony 6 a victim of that legacyness? I'd have thought php8 would force most major frameworks to do a decent rewrite.
 
5:55 PM
Symfony hasn't done a rewrite since v2. That's one of the reasons it's popular. :-)
The DIC is very popular. Its Serializer is an awful mess. Its Event Dispatcher is a bit over-engineered but PSR-14 compatible now so reasonable.
 
IGP
@Crell So basically, just like sharepoint, backward-compatibility is one of its core features?
 
I am not a huge fan of the DIC's compiler pass API, but it gets the job done.
BC is a big deal for most projects. :-) The ones that didn't care about it have either changed their minds or gone under.
 
IGP
To me, Symfony is THE php framework framework
(yes, double framework)
 
SF was the first framework to really go all in on being a component library that comes with a framework rather than being a big integrated blob.
It got them a lot of market/mind share.
(I was part of that process for Drupal.)
 
@Crell yep
exactly most frameworks are monolithic
 
6:07 PM
@Crell It very much was not the first one.
 
First one with any meaningful marketshare that got noticed. :-)
 
7:09 PM
just deployed a migration to production, php 5.3 to PHP 7.3, and Symfony 2.0 to Symfony 4.4
feels good
 
@SaifEddinGmati whispers php 7.3 is unsupported
 
the PR was big as is 😛
 
dear lord. brave PR, bold change. congrats!
 
@SaifEddinGmati my prayers to whoever has to review that
 
merged and deployed already :D
 
7:23 PM
pfff
 
i deployed it couple of weeks ago in staging and the client gave the green light 🤷‍♂️ so yea.. time for the end users to test it
 
Nice to see that Heroku are totally on the ball when it comes to testing PHP 8.1 ....
Dec 3 at 21:47, by Tiffany
Who's this Glash Gnome person on the docs list?
 
JRL
7:48 PM
im really curious if my workplace is going to move our 14 year old PHP application from 7.4 to 8.0 next year
they've been making a lot of pushes to keep everything up to date as is, we've upgraded the PHP version two time in the last two years
but the application is like 400k-500k lines of code
 
@JRL have you used rector to do the upgrades?
 
JRL
no, their tooling chain is pretty primitive
we don't use composer for instance
and they wrote their own autoloader, that is mixed with manual includes and requires
 
Aug 10 '20 at 20:34, by Danack
self-defenestration intensifies.
 
JRL
im writing the email for op overloads now
 
@JRL run
In my case I have a guy who re invented foreign keys by adding two columns to tables which reference a PHP class and that class translates the other column to another table
I don't know what's better
When questioned with data integrity the excuse is that "it's working that way"
xD
 
JRL
8:06 PM
anyone wanna copy edit my rfc email real quick?
alright, no worries :)
 
 
2 hours later…
10:16 PM
@cmb As that PR has been merged, that saves you having to edit stuff each time, when you have the time and energy, please could you upgrade ImageMagick to 7.1.0-17 for the pecl builds?
 
cmb
I have that on my todo list for a while, but I need to figure out the details of automating the configuration, so the build can be fully automated as GH action for github.com/winlibs/winlib-builder. I'll see to it tomorrow or the beginning of the next week.
 
cool, thanks.
 
10:43 PM
Does voting end today? wiki.php.net/rfc/strtolower-ascii
 
11:16 PM
I'm not sure we've had enough, or the right type, of drama recently.
 
JRL
well i just send the operator overload email earlier today
so new drama possibility :)
 
That's boring drama.....
I once worked on a project with operator overloads and it was terrible, therefore they are terrible!
I once worked on a project with operator overloads and it was great, therefore they are great!
I don't like your syntax choice, why don't you spend 2 weeks trying this random other syntax choice I thought of after 10 seconds of thinking!
 
JRL
11:32 PM
i could start a rumor that my RFC is secretly an attempt from microsoft to take the project over
 
that doesn't terribly narrow it down (:
 
JRL
that more your speed?
 
@Gordon I forgot, which guitars did you have? I remember something something gibson, and you had an entire rack of them awesome thingies
 
JRL
:P
 
approximately 15% of the people getting confused and think the RFC is about method overloading, and saying how great/terrible it is.
What's the correct way of listing which files need to be distributed by a PHP extension, other than doing it by hand, or comparing which files happen to exist in the installed dir?
 

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