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5:28 AM
@Wes Yeah they have been doing that shit the entire season :(
 
 
6 hours later…
11:54 AM
How should I understand these sentences in the enum RFC? Non-iterable Enums are not yet supported, but are expected to be part of the future ADT/Tagged Union RFC. (Those will not have a finite set of possible values.)

Note that UnitEnum does not extend Iterator, as the enum case instances themselves are not iterable; it's the Enum type that is iterable. An Enum could implement Iterator or IteratorAggregate if it so chose, however.
Enum type that is iterable - how? I understand it like this but of course it's nonsense in PHP: 3v4l.org/ECh4o
 
use Foo::cases()
 
Yeah, that just returns an array, I don't understand why are two paragraphs about enums being iterable.
 
 
2 hours later…
1:36 PM
Does it mean that in the future there might be enums without the cases method?
 
2:03 PM
You're the first to find out (when an RFC on it lands) :-)
 
@MarkR you should probably ping @crell for an answer.
 
2:53 PM
er....that was meant to be a reply to Ondřej obviously....
 
obviously ;-)
 
3:40 PM
 
@OndřejMirtes It's really only referring to cases(), which do not make sense with ADTs.
@Tiffany I truly don't get why people loathe PHP arrays so much … but maybe it's just because I understand them so well…
 
PHP's arrays are underrated
 
I think it's more of an issue of working with multidimensional arrays that may have a numeric index in between somewhere, and capturing all of that in my brain
 
so maybe using arrays where objects would be more appropriate, and not having the code split up into functions?
 
potentially
I ended up wrapping one of the arrays inside a generator to assist, made things a bit easier
 
 
2 hours later…
6:06 PM
yes, but maybe no, ADT/Tagged Union can have an infinite possible values, so you can't actually retrieve it's cases, since there's many possible combinations.


e.g:

enum Maybe {
case Some(mixed);
case None;
}

$none = Maybe::None;
$some_string = Maybe::Some('hello');

function bar(Maybe $val): void {
if (Maybe::None === $val) {
...
} else {
// $val is Maybe::Some(T)
// $actual_val is T
$actual_val = $val->value;
}
}
 
 
1 hour later…
@ramsey @PatrickAllaert When is 8.1 GA tagged? Tuesday?
 
IGP
7:55 PM
8.1 is already this close? I wish I could use it instead of having to keep adding features to 4 different 5.6 codebases :'(
 
next week, I believe
time flies
 
8:41 PM
@IGP How many co-workers do you have? You should all consider saying, "We must upgrade to 7.4+ or we will all quit."
 
IGP
My coworkers don't seem to mind (I'm sure they just don't know any better since the framework we're using is utter shit as well) and I do consulting, so I can't do that in good faith.
 
I'd demand a 20% surcharge for every version of PHP it is behind the latest release.
7.4 = 20%, 7.3 = 40% etc
 
IGP
That'd be dreamy. I'd be making more than twice what I'm making now
It would be too tempting to go over the dark side and sabotage any upgrade attempts to keep that sweet sweet bonus
 
There's lots of money to be made from maintaining ancient codebases... but I don't imagine it's all that enjoyable
 
IGP
It really depends on how much mantaining is needed.
So far, the biggest pains in the ass are the framework and the fake namespace imports
 
8:53 PM
is the framework maintained?
 
@LeviMorrison it's slightly more subtle to raise it as:
What is the cost of losing experienced engineers who want to work on more modern code-bases? What is the cost of not being able to hire engineers when they learn that you are on an ancient version of PHP?

And the following it up with "what's the cheapest way for us to modernize our code base?" answer, increase tests, use static analysis tools and rector to automate code changes.
and then updating your CV anyway.
 
IGP
@MarkR It's been EOL for 6 months already
 
I'd run for the hills xD
 
IGP
SO I don't think so, no.
@Danack updating my CV... saying I can deal with these archaic technologies?
 
In almost all cases a project still running on 5.6 is a project that's just going to build up so much tech debt that it's going to collapse and you'll be left holding the rubble
 
IGP
8:58 PM
The company seems to be doing very well, and had a lot of growth. However, they don't seem to have invested any of that growth into mantaining and getting all those legacy codebases (I'm only working with a FRACTION of them) up to snuff. From what I can tell, they're ALL running on the same server.
 
That's even worse =) One of the few things worse than a poorly maintained legacy system, is a poorly maintained legacy system that's having increased demands put on it.
 
IGP
What about poorly mantained legacy systems all running fucking CakePHP 2?
 
@IGP if you want to increase your salary, but stay working on an ancient code base, sure. Otherwise, maybe something like:
"Although I enjoy working with my team, and the problems the company is working on are interesting ones to work on, the company doesn't have great engineering practices, and I find myself spending more time on fixing and maintaining stuff than I should be.

I'm looking to move to a company that has better engineering practices, and is able to keep code updated to running on modern versions of PHP, rather than being trapped on ancient versions."
A company that is unable to update it's code to run on a modern version of PHP is a company that is fundamentally 'bankrupt'. They've run up a huge amount of tech debt, and don't have a way to pay it off.
 
IGP
That's a pretty way of putting it.
 
And annoyingly, for any of the managers, to point out that the company is bankrupt had a very bad effect on their own continued employment at the company. So it's in each of their interest to ignore the problem, to continue to receive their wage each month, and have a plan to leave to another company before that one goes broke.
 
9:11 PM
These are not absolute rules of course, but they're pretty good indicators
 
IGP
Rereading your messages I do believe the company is technologically bankrupt. There's just too many things that need to happen for the company to end up using a modern stack
 
As long as you're not in a tech leadership position of it, you can continue to extract an income from it... you just don't want to be there when it goes boom
 
IGP
I'm just a consultant. If the company goes down in flames I'll just be put somewhere else
 
That's fair enough as long as you don't mind the archaeology.
 
IGP
I do mind. But I don't want to quit just yet. A few more months to get a bigger safety net
 
9:15 PM
Also entirely reasonable =)
 
9:45 PM
I think I'm going to have to turn in my yorkshire badge and put the heating on constant... either that or bring my PC closer and run prime95 24x7
 
10:09 PM
if you mine like 0.00001 bitcoin should keep you warm for winter
 
 
2 hours later…
Wes
11:55 PM
\o
 

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