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12:01 AM
One for mr random
 
 
2 hours later…
1:32 AM
@hakre Some do. We're trying to reduce/eliminate them, but... legacy code. :-) Lots of spidery webs to untangle.
 
what I do with these is to metric the classes and if the number of methods go over a threshold to break them apart by a more clear grouping.
alternatively you can just make every method a function of it's own, but at the end of the day I find this more cumbersome as with static classes and some methods.
as long as the methods don't create state and remain pure, from what I remember I've never run over any testing problem.
Perhaps I should add, that I don't use inheritance with these, so no static resolution at call-time. sometimes I don't do even writeself within the class itself.
 
 
5 hours later…
7:12 AM
... Are they accepted some PR only to increase coverage testing?
In all cases where the coverage is low?
 
7:34 AM
is there ever any point in calling out passive aggressiveness ... it seems either the call out will be ignored, or will turn the communication into outright aggressiveness ...
 
8:28 AM
I'm happy to be on the receiving end, in private.
(on the call outs, that is) — English isn't my first language.
 
I want to give said person the benefit of the doubt on the basis that english is not their first language, I also try to craft responses in light of that ...
but I can only be on the receiving end of passive aggressiveness so many times before my patience wears thin, and I start to think the conversation is damaging to the project in a wider sense, possibly made worse by my not responding to/ignoring it ...
 
I am tryin us some regular expression here. Still not so good at it. I simply want to say version_name must contain .bin
 
what must other people that are just reading think if we allow this to go on as if it's normal, it's not very inviting atmosphere being created ...
 
['version_name' => '\.bin$']
 
8:43 AM
@luffy missing delimiters on expression
 
@JoeWatkins Thanks
 
 
1 hour later…
9:54 AM
ormings
 
does tideways work with php 8.0.12?
 
Hello guys
can anyone help me with oci8 package installation?
please look into this link
Have read the link to the howto in my answer ? — Remi Collet 23 hours ago
can anybody have any solution for me
 
10:17 AM
@Carpenter /cc @beberlei
 
@RemiCollet I know. I read all but I don't understand what to do now
I installed php-pecl-oci8-2.0.12-1.el7.remi.5.4.x86_64 and enabled extension oci8 in apache but still I am getting error Call to undefined function: oci_connect()
 
morning
 
o/
 
Morning all \o
 
10:49 AM
Hi Mark
 
@ratna "php -v"
 
11:10 AM
@RemiCollet do you want to know the version of PHP?
PHP Warning: PHP Startup: Unable to load dynamic library '/ect/php.d/oci8.so' - /ect/php.d/oci8.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory i n Unknown on line 0
PHP Warning: PHP Startup: Unable to load dynamic library '/ect/php.d/oci8.so' - /ect/php.d/oci8.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory i n Unknown on line 0
 
@ratna I recommend you start on a fresh/clean installation ('/ect/php.d/oci8.so' does not make any sense)
then follow carefully the howto
You installation seems a real mess
and I also recommend you use a more recent PHP version... 5.4 is really old
 
thanks @RemiCollet
can I install php 7.2 in rhel 7.9 server
?
 
yes, as explained in the howto.... start with a proper php installation, following the wizard instructions rpms.remirepo.net/wizard
/me needs a "proper" keyboard
 
11:30 AM
Which maintainability metric has the strongest empirical evidence?
I why can't I find the answer to that? -.-
 
@RemiCollet the wizard link is broken in the article
 
oh... "localhost".... good catch, thanks @JoeWatkins
fixed
 
@OlleHärstedt because there isn't really one, for any metric you like, it's value is relative to the current application, the measurement doesn't apply outside the system ...
the base question "how maintainable is this code?" is like asking "how long is a piece of string?" ... it depends on so many variables as to be meaningless in a vacuum ...
 
@JoeWatkins Mm. People measure MTTR (mean-time-to-repair) and how it correlates to certain metrics, like WMC (weighted methods per class).
Obviously it's never 100% correlated, but 70% correlation would still be extremely valuable information.
I can't find a proper meta-study, is my biggest problem...
 
doesn't MTTR depend on the number of developers you have, along with their experience/skillset ...
 
11:45 AM
@JoeWatkins Sure. That's why you need multiple case studies.
And big systems.
 
I must have misunderstood the question, I thought you're asking which metric is the strongest emperical evidence of the maintainability of some code
now I think you're saying "which existing metric has lots of papers written about it" ...
and I dunno the answer to that ...
 
No no, that's exactly what I want to know.
But you need a certain amount of studies to even consider it as "known".
Especially since I'm not qualified to assess the quality of a study.
 
The only reliable metric is the WTFs per hour.
 
I can't predict wtf per hour :)
The point is to find predictors. And then smash them into the CI.
 
cmb
I like the CRAP index, but I wouldn't know whether this has been scientifically evaluated.
 
12:04 PM
Hm
Maybe I'll mail the authors of some of the papers I like
 
12:18 PM
It's hard to read papers, too! Dense and statistical. "It is known that regression models suffer from over/under estimation or biased prediction, especially when the same model is applied to different operating conditions" Oh really???
@cmb I do like this one, yes.
 
12:44 PM
@JoeWatkins well, I would say so, but then I am probably too pugnacious for my own good.....If you're going to say something, phrasing it as "how it affects you" is the way to go....like "I find the way your messages are written to be quite emotionally draining which doesn't lead for a productive conversation". If it's within your organisation, I'd suggest drafting a message then pass it by your line manager and explain to them that you're getting wound up,
and get them to check the wording is okay.
 
it's on php-src
 
feel free to twatter dm.
or if it's in the open, link it?
 
pr 7442
 
What do you want out of the conversation? e.g. any info, suggestions for how to do stuff, or just for the conversation to end?
 
I feel like I've explained it, and I'm not really being listened too, I don't really understand why ... but nor do I really care, this is a waste of time to engage now ...
he said it was fine to add specific apis on the same day I said I didn't understand the motivation, so there was no more to say at that point, when he pointed out I hadn't really explained it (even though he said he was okay with it, and the reasons to have specific apis should be obvious), I thought I'd have a go ... now I wish I hadn't bothered ...
afk, school run
 
12:58 PM
I'll draft words ......after more coffee.....the core problems here are that he's i) not respecting that other people have opinions different from his own ii) he's putting pressure on other people to make a case clearly enough to change his mind.....and he's not open to having his mind changed.
And this is the nth time that has happened.
 
 
2 hours later…
3:09 PM
Serious question: Why the fuck did the Enums RFC refer to "Pure cases" in all the prose, but then create a "UnitEnum" interface?
 
Feb 2 at 0:02, by Crell
And... then I guess UnitEnum fits for both pure and backed cases. cries
why you asking us?
 
Because past me was an idiot, as usual.
In related news, where should the built in UnitEnum and BackedEnum interfaces live in the docs? :-P
 
Don't know - but maybe similar to php.net/manual/en/reserved.interfaces.php
 
Works for me.
 
3:49 PM
Ugh. Explain this to me. language/predefined/interfaces.xml has a bunch of references to &language.predefined.thingie;. But... those don't appear to be explicitly defined anywhere. However, if I add a new one (&language.predefined.unitenum;`), using the auto-generated file, it doesn't find it. What non-obvious step am I missing?
 
cmb
you need to have a directory "unitenum" in language/predefined; and there needs to be at least 1 file documenting a method
 
There is.
 
cmb
did you push?
 
Not yet. OH! Wait, hang on. I think I may be misreading the error message.
Ah, I am. It's the auto-generated &reference.core.entities.unitenum; in unitenum.xml it's complaining about. Do I need that?
 
cmb
I don't think so.
 
4:07 PM
The configure script would agree. :-)
Although... this is odd. The auto-generated files did not embed the methods into the main interface files like they did for reflection. They created the block for them, but didn't actually put them in.
 
You need a folder language/predefined/unitenum and an xml file language/predefined/unitenum.xml.
 
I have both.
 
Look at Generator or such for what the folder should contain.
 
And the method files are in place.
 
cmb
I think you need the entities at the end of unitenum.xml manually.
 
4:11 PM
Ah, there were config errors on the xpointer... which didn't stop the build. Weird.
Ah ha. OK, that was it. The generated entity was just... wrong. I needed to correct it manually. Now it builds without error. Yay.
@cmb How do we coordinate adding the entity reference to the doc-base repo and the files to the en repo? Since it's not going to build right without both.
 
cmb
@Crell yeah, that's crap. Need to configure (and render) locally, and then "simultaniously" push to both repos. :(
 
@Carpenter it does, but in case of usage of attributes it may segfault due to a php bug. are you haveing problems? are you talking tideways or tideways_xhprof?
 
@cmb As in, get it all working, then I push directly rather than going through PRs?
I'll need to bug Nikita to get my doc repo access back then... :-)
 
cmb
@Crell you can do PRs for review, but the one who's going to merge (regardless whether that's you or somebody else), needs to make sure that the build works and everything is good.
 
I defer to you on the process specifics. I just want to make sure it doesn't end up going fallow.
Also, this should probably get merged soon: github.com/php/phd/pull/57
(Related)
Aaaand I think enums are finally done and ready: https://github.com/php/doc-en/pull/960

Requires this to actually build, as noted: https://github.com/php/doc-base/pull/51
 
4:36 PM
@RemiCollet fyi - I made phpimagick.com have both IM6 + IM7 available on different sub-domains, to make it easier to compare images on the different versions e.g.
https://im6.phpimagick.com/Imagick/clutImage vs
https://im7.phpimagick.com/Imagick/clutImage
 
@beberlei no, everything is alright. I just read the chat from yesterday and my new task from jira today is to install tideways ;-) on 8.0.12
 
@Carpenter haha nice :) let me know if you have any questions, better write an e-mail to support@tideways.com - I am on a trip and not online much atm
 
thx but docs are clear.
have a nice trip
 
4:56 PM
@cmb Oh god, Phd is using tabs??
 
cmb
5:19 PM
@Crell not sure, but at least the following line apparently does
and I don't mind whether tabs or spaces are used, as long as the line endings are proper CRLF :P
 
5:44 PM
and CMB was never seen again except for a note that said "I'm\nSorry\n"
 
5:54 PM
:-)
It looks like that file is... mixed and inconsistent. Because of course.
I accepted your change for now just to keep things moving, but I'd say that repo needs a .editorconfig file and a code style audit.
 
6:16 PM
phpstorm question: in a file with multiple heredocs, if I'm making changes in a heredoc, like adding {$array['some index']}, I pause typing the index or something, then complete, but code below the heredoc may appear like it has a syntax error... but it turns out to be a false positive. Workaround was adding new lines into heredocs that appear in methods below the current heredoc I'm editing. Anyone else encountered this?
 
yeah........I see something similar when pasting blocks of code, and then editing them quickly afterwards. I sometimes comment out the whole function and then put it back, to get it to reparse the code.
 
 
1 hour later…
7:40 PM
Anyone with swoole experience and threads ?
trying to fork several lambdas
 
insert inappropriate joke about troll threads + swoole here
 
eh ?
 
mornings
 
o/
 
8:06 PM
Excrement. I just found a second use for tuples in the same place as the first. I think I may need to accept tuples now. :-(
 
8:25 PM
@Crell Return an object ?
 
In this case, it would be a compound value passed through a reduction.
Which, yes, an object absolutely can do. But also, feels unnecessary.
 
Nicer to have autocompletion of methods instead of array indices
I mean, if you are modernizing it, an object might make sense, just an opinion
 
No methods.
This is in greenfield code I'm writing. :-)
 
ok
have a dev on my team who likes to abuse __get and __set
it's painful
 
That's inexcusable.
 
8:31 PM
-> whatwas it ????
 
 
1 hour later…
9:51 PM
@Danack interesting. I guess I'll go digging for a bug report in the near future.
 
10:25 PM
Hmm. Apparently there's a 'quite large' solar flare arriving on Saturday: weatherboy.com/… +
So......don't go scheduling any surgery for then, probably.
 
10:56 PM
OOOOH. Northern Lights alert for our Scottish friens.
 
Lucky frens
 

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