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12:00 AM
@DaveRandom do you have any explanation of why almost no Haskell examples have any comments in the code of what that code is doing? My guess would be because it's trivial code once you grok Haskell.........which I don't, yet.
 
because it has only been a teaching tool since before either of us were born? :-P
surely no-one writes haskell in anger?
therefore two things are true: a) no-one cares about maintaining the code b) no-one really knows how it works
 
Whatsapp used haskell for writing some of their server code, that's the only time i personally have heard of it, although im sure there are many more
 
that's definitely a weird thing to do.
 
@DaveRandom that could be interpreted as meaning it's only used to show off how smart someone is....
 
yeh, it's a teaching tool, that is literally what it's for :-P
 
12:07 AM
> do you have any explanation of why is it people who like functional programming are so bad at explaining why it's good
 
yes I do, it's bad
doesn't make it a bad teaching tool tho :-P
9 mins ago, by DaveRandom
much like VB, bad Haskell is starkly different to good haskell
> much like VB
it has a purpose, but that purpose is not industrial
s/is not/should not be/
 
are you sayingt he people who teach FP don't like it? :P
 
at university level? yeh I am saying exactly that :-P
 
@DaveRandom I did a bit of learning Haskell with a friend over the summer, and I think the main issue is that FP requires a very different way of thinking about programming, which is maybe why all the people I know who use it are pure mathematicians....
 
12:13 AM
@Girgias well you're a pure mathematician... tell us what it's good for :P
 
it's awesome for NIKITAP, exchanging data directly with @NikiC's brain
 
It's a fun tongue and cheek video
but kinda accurate
 
@DaveRandom I think you typo'd brain there, it's spelt "circuits"
 
it's also spelled "spelled"
/kills self
 
>.> fml
 
12:16 AM
forgivable mistake, essentially legit english at this point
/sleep x
 
Aug 24 '16 at 8:53, by Danack
@DaveRandom spelt vs spelled. Learnt vs learned. Spilt vs spilled. What are the rules?
 
the rules are follow the obvious option, imho. past tense is "append -ed", anything else feels like deliberately making harder
...and before anyone says it, "past" and "passed" are different things
fuck english
/actual sleep
 
@Girgias the grid comparison was interesting
 
Jul 22 at 21:00, by Danack
@bwoebi are you suggesting I need learnt, how it's spelt?
 
12:30 AM
I mean I did some Agda last Tuesday
And holy shit, I didn't know programming could be that hard
 
I just looked at the wiki page for it... it wouldn't make any more or less sense to me if it was written in Egyptian hieroglyphics.
 
I mean, it's dependent typing, so you're basically doing mathematical proofs, in programming
 
Hmmm, the only mathematical proof I know is that my D at A level maths was proof I wasn't very good at it.
 
@Girgias who got up one morning and was all "what if I made mathematical proof even worse"
 
12:46 AM
@FélixAdriyelGagnon-Grenier It's actually somewhat nice, as it tells you what you need to prove from the things it doesn't know
So it's more a proof checker buuuuut you can do more stuff with it
 
> it tells you what you need to prove from the things it doesn't know
now that sounds like your regular first time SO user
joking aside, neat!
 
:')
I mean I'm going to learn such a dependent typed language for my degree
 
LimitIterator + SplFileObject regression/changed behavior in 8.0.1+ ・ SPL related ・ #81477
 
1:40 AM
Yay, SPL bugs! Another drink for those playing the bugs.php.net drinking game.
 
 
2 hours later…
3:56 AM
The curse of the monad: Once you understand monads, you become incapable of explaining monads.

More seriously, there are very few good examples for FP that make sense in example-sized cases. The real benefit of FP comes after you've learned to use a different set of primitive concepts, AND seen them applied in a larger program where radical commitment to statelessness and declarative code has real benefit.

But that doesn't fit on a slide very easily. That's why I wrote a book.
 
 
4 hours later…
8:14 AM
@Crell Heh, I find it's exactly the other way around: It's easy to find nice and elegant FP examples, but it breaks down once you try to apply it to real (non-leaf) problems.
 
9:12 AM
@LeviMorrison I am probably the only one in here who witnessed an instance of the SPL drinking game. And I don't drink. Probably that's why I remember ...
 
 
2 hours later…
11:09 AM
Hi, is there any internals function like zend_verify_type that can verify zval against zend_type? I've found things like zend_verify_property_type (for typed properties, I presume) and promising things like zend_check_type, but aforementioned zend_verify_property_type does not use it, and so I don't know if should I.
2
For some more context, I'm trying to implement proof of concept for my possible RFC about array shapes (basically typed arrays) to see if viable implementation is possible and so I need to verify types of array entries and wonder how to do that properly.
2
 
 
2 hours later…
1:03 PM
from Sebastian on the ML:

While disabling the conversion of PHP deprecations to exceptions, for instance, is possible by setting convertDeprecationsToExceptions="false" in your PHPUnit XML configuration file, I do think that the default should be changed to not covert PHP deprecations to exceptions.

The next releases of PHPUnit 8.5 and PHPUnit 9.5 will change this.
 
 
1 hour later…
2:17 PM
@SebastianBergmann I don't drink either ^_^
(alcohol)
If there was an in-person SPL drinking game, then it was before my time. I'm really not surprised there was one.
 
Then only question is whether it was before, during, or after the code was written.
 
2:50 PM
Uh........ wat.
 
@Danack Yes nods
 
Wha..? What is this? I seriously find it so irritating to read that I really struggle to actually read it.
 
I don't know what's so mysterious about the RFC process... but that reminds me, did we find a new supplier for goat blood and arrange a new secret handshake in time for the next RFC voting meeting?
 
Jun 17 at 11:42, by Danack
I know I need to find a better phrase for it.....but when people perceive the world, (particularly the motivations of people giving them feedback) in a way that does not match the perception that the vast majority of people have, and there is such a divergence in "perceptual models" you can't have a useful productive conversation with them, or about their code.
@Dharman it's probably worth considering the likely value of a conversation before continuing it....some conversations are just so unlikely to give a beneficial outcome. They just take up people's time.
 
Yeah, I figured that's the attitude of most of internals towards this email, but I didn't want to give up easily. If the response will not lead anywhere we can drop the topic.
 
3:57 PM
The thing with classic ASP versus PHP, there are engine differences that at the root, can't be changed. I learned classic ASP before PHP, and switching to PHP was a bit of a mindfuck because thought I was writing simpler code in PHP, but there were assumptions I had brought over from classic ASP that just don't work the same in PHP.
Old public website was built on classic ASP, was rewritten in PHP by a third party, and there were a few bits and pieces left over in classic ASP that had to be migrated that wasn't included in the third party rewrite.
This was before I had any understanding of PHP, so I tried rewriting 1:1, and the PHP code I was writing was fewer lines and easier to understand (imo), but it wasn't working. (This was before I knew about display errors and stuff). Basically, I had to unlearn some of the assumptions I had from classic ASP when writing PHP. I'm not able to give a concrete example because this was nearly a decade ago, but I think what this person is expecting won't be possible
rambles
 
@Derick Ha! Not quite. I was stuck on two contract missions yesterday that maybe I'm just not ready for.
Both were testing rockets between 32-37k meters and specific speed range, one of them cannot get to that altitude so will need to be done as part of a stage once I'm there but I was having a hard time maintaining the altitude while I go the speed up.
 
4:24 PM
> is_set1
somepeoplejustwanttowatchtheworldburn.gif
 
4:34 PM
@StatikStasis not sure if that counts, but I've eyeballed an intercept course with the... very surface of the Mun, and am like at T-3m of sharing the last moments of my courageous Kerbal
I think I'll try last minutes corrections with the last fumes of fuel see if I can slingshot around it to outer solar system or something
 
@FélixAdriyelGagnon-Grenier Well, now I do.
 
now that the initial shock has passed, the world of "default values on is_set" is starting to dawn on me and I'm not sure how to handle that
oh, easy way out, it's just the null coalesce operator. now I will stop thinking about it.
ksp nerds, if I fly prograde here, should it make the orbit go just outside the Mun? or would that be rather flying "left" here
like, away from the gravity center of the mun
 
Wes
5:13 PM
hey folks. will it work if i try to do this github.com/audacity/audacity/blob/master/scripts/piped-work/… with amphp, right? by the looks of it, it should be alright. just double checking
i feel like i've unlearned php
might be a good thing?
 
@NikiC The library I'm working on right now is about 95% functionally pure, and using a lot of functional operations (map, first, pipe, etc.) It's working extremely well.
 
Hey @Wes, nice to see you :) o/
Not sure how well that translates to programming (even though I find it does) but unlearning things in violin, has often been the only way in which I've been able to master them, so yeah, good thing indeed.
 
Wes
5:39 PM
hey \o i don't know about that
i feel like i wasted a lot of time
 
am I going crazy or did I just receive the same email 3 times?
 
@FélixAdriyelGagnon-Grenier @StatikStasis maybe @PeeHaa game worth checking out, The Last Spell. Turn-based strategy + RPG
also the soundtrack is like half metal, half chill, it's fun
gameplay is two-phases, protecting a town with heroes with abilities and items, other phase is building up the town and preparing for night... I've seen a stream of it played and it looked like fun, haven't played very far myself. It's also apparently a roguelite. Heroes can level up with new skills and can equip items, town can be built with stuff to further equip heroes.
single player only, and early access though. I dunno if multiplayer will be added later.
 
It looks like Final Fantasy Tactics. Final Fantasy Tactics is one of my most favourite games of all times. Like, top 3 of my life.
 
6:41 PM
posted on September 25, 2021

 
7:13 PM
comic feed is borked :S
 
 
2 hours later…
8:44 PM
well, I am going to get a stroke if I keep reading those mails
 
A valiant effort even trying to parse the first one
 
8:58 PM
@FélixAdriyelGagnon-Grenier fly "left"
 
9:19 PM
@Derick if I can get the craft to lose enough speed in the atmosphere and somehow get that kerbal bak on the ground alive, I think I'll pop some champagne or something i.stack.imgur.com/RiVRY.jpg
everything in that journey was chaotic and eye balled, from the orbit gain to the orbit to the mun, to the what if I burn that way to not crash on the mun's surface, to the "oh hey kerbin's still the biggest pull in the vicinity"
I fear the angle of approach is so "long" that I'll be going too fast in the atmosphere for too long and just burn
... indeed. they got home safe, but I lost all the science...
 
 
2 hours later…
11:08 PM
You got me playing KSP again. I just orbited Mun and came back to Kerbin again
 

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