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00:04
@StatikStasis You got it? :)
00:20
@PeeHaa Yes- about to start playing it now.
@Derick sounds good. =) night
@StatikStasis \o/ See you in a couple of weeks!
LOL- How much time have you spent on it?
@PeeHaa I'm about to start stream... might be boring since I have not played one second of this game yet.
@StatikStasis No idea :)
@StatikStasis I might catch a few minutes before I move to bed
Hmm... failed
Looks like I have to fix some things on Twitch to omnistream. I'll just do YouTube tonight
Hmm...nope still failed.
00:46
@PeeHaa Yay... got it to work again.
I am getting this on the twitch
> The video download was cancelled. Please try again. (Error #1000)
youtube works though
Huh weird...
 
5 hours later…
06:15
Cannot support large linux major/minor device number when read /proc/self/maps ・ *General Issues ・ #81472
07:08
Hello everybody! I got question about unit and integration testing. In unit-tests I'm always trying to test as much buisness cases as possible (reach 100% code coverage). Unit tests are great and pretty simple because all tests are made in isolation. Absolutely opposite situation with integrational tests - it is really pain in the ass. Because we need to work with real data sources (db, logging, cache etc.).
So my question is - should we test buiseness logic in integrational tests or no. Sometimes, testing all possible cases with integrational tests seems to be absolutely impossible. What's your opinion - should integegration tests test buiseness logic or no? If no, then what should they test? Thanks! PS: Sorry for my english.
08:03
Can I ask to remove "final" from ReflectionEnum, and ReflectionAttribute, so that they can be extended for the purpose of adapters in BetterReflection library? I asked for the same thing last year in ReflectionUnionType and got the final keyword removed.

Unfortunately I haven't had the reason to write ReflectionAttribute adapter until now but there's the same blocker.
 
1 hour later…
09:05
hash_pbkdf2 truncate in hex ・ hash related ・ #81473
10:00
@Tiffany not sure who of those still works here. I can check
10:44
@OndřejMirtes open a bug...
cmb
cmb
11:03
^ or write to internals
11:13
hexits... that's when Hungary leaves the EU isn't it
TIL. I've never heard the term 'hexit' used before.
@MarkR Hope, it never happens :D But I would happily nominate a few prominent people from our country for huxit ^^
11:29
Make ReflectionEnum and related class non-final ・ Reflection related ・ #81474
If someone marks that as not a bug, are they going to say "And that's final"?
Don't tempt me.
11:50
I don't know if there's a solid reason for final or not tbh, I mainly just like the wordplay.
12:17
I'm going to avoid getting involved in any discussion of final, but possibly it should be a guideline that it should only be used for classes that are implementing interfaces in core.
12:51
@cmb I assume the repo to be on the internal network. I dont have access to it. Would you need anything specific?
21 hours ago, by cmb
Any public repo would be fine for me. As it is, we're getting reports in bugsnet, but none of the devs looks into it, and it is not even possible to assign them, because they have no php.net account, apparently.
my understanding is that it's an ongoing maintainence problem.
cmb
cmb
@Gordon ^ that; and especially they may want to fix bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=81470
I see. I dont have high hopes of finding someone responsible for it, but I'll try
cmb
cmb
I also wonder whether github.com/php/pecl-database-pdo_informix should be archived (or otherwise marked as being outdated/unmaintained).
13:07
Hi guys anyone familiar with redhat?
Getting curl not found but on running yum install it says Package curl-7.29.0-57.el7.x86_64 already installed and latest version
Nothing to do
which curl results in usr/bin/which: no curl in (/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/root/bin)
you need to get yum/rpm to show you the contents of curl-7.29...
I don't remember how to do that on RedHat/Fedora and friends any more
would there be a reason to stop supporting ZTS on php 8.0+? I see some widely used extension doing that, not sure why...
13:22
@Derick Played Kerbal last night... it was ugly- forgot a parachute, but it was amazing. I'm in trouble because I totally see myself getting addicted to this game. I watched about 9 tutorial videos afterward in order to get an idea of all the mechanics so I am ready for a better round this next time. //cc @PeeHaa @Ekin
@StatikStasis I probably have 1000+ hours in the game, over 10 years.
@FlorianMargaine It depends on the extension? Which one
That sounds like me and Skyrim.
hah
@StatikStasis I've landed and returned Kerbals from every moon and planet, besides Jool and Eve, back safely to Kerbin.
The first time landing (safely) on Mün is going to be amazeballs.
After a 1000 hours I feel like you would have conquered those two as well.
You can't land on Jool.
13:25
Is it that hard to get to them?
ah- I see
Oh gas planet?
And Eve is just toooo hard to get off from. Dense atmosphere, high G.
Oh wow- neat. Do they have anything outside of the solar system?
Maybe part 2
I bet I wouldn't be able to run KSP 2... when/if it comes out.
13:27
Would be neat to see the possibility of collecting science from quasars, magnatars, etc.
Plenty of CPUs in this box, but not a high end video card.
I'm looking forward to playing again- hopefully tonight.
I'm tempted to do a run now...
@Derick new relic
> This will be the last release in which ZTS builds are supported. In the future, ZTS builds may not be provided, and support may be completely pulled from the codebase.
13:30
seems like an odd choice tbh
and they're not even building a zts version for 8.0
oh wait they are
still, that message on their release is... odd. I don't understand why
looks like they only don't build 32-bit for PHP 8.0 - I see a zts and non-zts
@StatikStasis :D
@PeeHaa After watching some tutorials until 2am- I realize how little I knew... I mean I still know little, but just a little less than before... or more... whatever. =P
@StatikStasis If you have questions...
13:36
=D
Well, waiting for CI... so firing up KSP
Do you still have more missions to complete after playing that far into the game?
There is always more contracts to do
Currently building amining outpost on Ike
But the kraken destroyed half of my station
wow... it is a huge game.
the missions get harder and harder
I've done many different play throughs too
new versoins, new features, new types of missions
13:41
You have the DLC, I assume?
yeah
came for free as I bought it so early
14:01
Good morning
@Orangepill long time no see
@StatikStasis I also know very little, but at least I need how to get up and mostly safe down again :)
Is there any solid documentation on the details of #[ReturnTypeWillChange] at the moment? Or just the passing mention in the RFC?
(I'm adding them to phpbench as it breaks on 8.1 right now, and want to make sure I do it right.)
14:24
careful, y'all Kerbal SP players about to drop nonsense in the chat soon. Retrograde? Abdigrade? They have played us for absolute fools, the Earth is flat anyway
tbh tho there was one of the most hilarious comments I've ever seen on Steam on KSP page, some bloke was furious the game was "teaching young minds falsehoods like the earth being spherical" absolute legend
hah
@FélixAdriyelGagnon-Grenier Hopefully satire.... right?
If the earth was flat- I would be very interested in seeing the other side.
stream_isatty emits warning with attached stream wrapper ・ Streams related ・ #81475
14:40
@FélixAdriyelGagnon-Grenier Of course, Marvel probably only encouraged flat earthers...
@StatikStasis not quite sure what this represents, but it sure is a Marvelous image
It's Asgard, home of Odin and Thor.
Have you seen the movies?
not really, I think
I've seen the space raccoon and groot one. or like two of them
lol
space raccoo- that's hilarious.
They're pretty good.
15:24
@StatikStasis The Magicians have done a similar thing where Fillory is flat, which leads to all sorts of fun shenanigans
15:41
@StatikStasis you have ADHD, do you use a mail-order thing for your medication?
No- I just call once per month and doctor calls in my prescription to pharmacy.
Ah. I'm probably going to have to go back to doing that. I've tried a mail-order pharmacy thing, but they started sending my meds later and later to where I couldn't build up a backup supply, and now I'm completely out of my backup supply and I won't receive it until tomorrow or Monday.
The concept of mail-order is nice, but in practice... -_-
16:11
@Tiffany I have an aunt that does mail order. I don't take my full amount every day so I am usually a month ahead in supply as well.
@Derick Thinking of leaving early to play Kerbal... can't stop thinking about playing when I get home.
@StatikStasis :D
@PeeHaa If I get just a taste of game mechanics from some game and it is addicting, I cannot stop thinking about it until I play enough.
=P
Plus... it's Friday. =D
My attention span for most games are rather short :P That's why I still suck at Kerbal :D
I really liked Valheim- had to play that for about 7 hours in a row to get that out of my system. I need to play that again.
@PeeHaa I see why Mario games are such a big game for you then. =P
hehehehe
16:56
@StatikStasis same
had a bout of 15h valheim days, then kinda never touched it again
also, I hold y'all responsible for screwing up the remainder of my friday to play KSP (-:
@StatikStasis We still have our server running\
riight, I remember last time I was trying to make a plane fly. lol
@PeeHaa When was the last time you played?
@FélixAdriyelGagnon-Grenier LOL!
I'm not sure why I haven't picked it up before now.
17:12
@StatikStasis I think about a month or so ago
17:46
"with-password-argon2" does build but not work ・ *Compile Issues ・ #81476
18:40
What's the relationship between libsodium, argon2 ?
and probably the dupe bug is bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=80407 but I don't follow it entirely.
Sodium is much more reactive than argon.
And harder to turn into a laser.
Looks like Libsodium is a library needed if you want to use Argon2 algorithm in .NET core... or so I've read.
Oh... a bug.
Never mind.
@IMSoP How amendable do you think the PHPUnit maintainers would be to changing that default on deprecations?
@Crell I don't have the strength to reply to that thread on internals....I think the issue isn't in testing, it's deprecation warnings being converted to exceptions in production.....which is a problem from people not testing their code enough, and then complaining to the nearest person they can complain to.
Which results in people like the Laminas maintainers having to deal with a whole load of .........annoying people.
18:50
Let's find out... @SebastianBergmann what's your take on having phpunit default to not erroring out on deprecation notices
Is there a blurb already about how to disable deprecation -> exception conversion in the message when it occurs?
I don't believe so.
but again, pretty sure that's not the main problem.
Unrelated: Shouldn't this work? 3v4l.org/CXhqS
@Danack If phpunit doesn't convert deprecations in the standard config, it becomes much easier to tell people "well stop converting deprecations in production, numbnuts."
Isn't that what bindTo() is supposed to do?
19:05
Look at the second arg of bindTo
Ha, and ev4l just fell over. good times. But yeah, good catch. I don't grok why it's two separate arguments, though.
I think deprecations -> exceptions is fine for a tool like PhpUnit, as long as when that happens they say how to disable it -- that's what I think.
No need to change the default.
I disagree, mainly because most people are never going to change defaults.
19:54
3v4l down?
Ohh I think it's just very slow
"This page (3v4l.org/new) is currently offline."
20:31
Night all
20:45
@LeviMorrison I'd like a mode of "please only emit deprecations with a direct call chain from my own code"
@Crell They will if they upgrade, hit it, are told how to change it, and it's like a one line config change.
If they aren't told, then maybe not.
Well, either way we're waiting on @SebastianBergmann.
Wes
Wes
21:04
@Danack genuinely thought i was being attacked
21:58
@Wes ohai, long time no see, glad you are still around :-)
you doing OK?
@StatikStasis Landed on the Mün yet? ;-)
Wes
Wes
about as good as can be expected given the current situation
you? all good around here? is php 9 a thing yet? :B
22:31
@Wes no, as Microsoft told us … we jumped from 8 to 10
PHPX
Wes
Wes
22:48
:O
just like aspx, but php
23:09
@Wes people are complaining that PHP 9 is mislabelled as PHP 8.1.....so maybe.
@Crell out of curiousity, do you have any explanation of why is it people who like functional programming are so bad at explaining why it's good: en.reddit.com/r/PHP/comments/pujwtn/either_why_or_how
@Derick ... the tutorial for going for orbit has a glitch for me, separating second stages always explodes too hard and breaks course, which stops tutorial from continuing.
I remember them trying to spend a semester teaching haskel at uni... i don't think a single person came away from it with any benefit
It feels like one of those things you'd have to spend years on, and even so you'd box yourself into an incredibly niche profession
23:24
We had to write Prolog in one of my CS classes. I remember nearly nothing from it.
23:46
We learned Racket/DrScheme for a year. It was fun and all but all I ever really used it for was to make traffic lights change and house lights turn on as the person passes by as part of a final assignment :-P
...this is maybe the most off the wall statement I have ever made, but I think haskell is a good language
uncomplicated, there's a reason it's a teaching language
otoh, I also like coldplay so prob don't listen to my opinions :-P
I'm not qualified to say if it's good or bad, only that what we learnt from those semesters seemed to have extremly limited applicability to future work.
then it was poorly utilised as a teaching tool. if nothing else, it's a lesson in verbosity === readability
imho :-P
I went to staffordshire university, the teaching wasn't exactly cambridge level.
much like VB, bad Haskell is starkly different to good haskell

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