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3:45 AM
@JoeWatkins Same. News to me.
 
 
2 hours later…
6:04 AM
posted on August 03, 2021

 
6:38 AM
php-fpm will not set syslog ident for children ・ *General Issues ・ #81324
 
6:54 AM
I was reading this comment under a post: "can't agree more"
Does it mean the comment's author agrees with the post or does not agree?
 
7:35 AM
they agree
 
ah ok thx
 
7:51 AM
(I think)
 
 
2 hours later…
9:40 AM
Segfault in zif_simplexml_import_dom ・ SimpleXML related ・ #81325
 
Morning o/
 
9:57 AM
\o
 
grr... Fedora CI detects a regression in 8.0.7 in May.... but I miss it (to much notifications...)
 
 
2 hours later…
11:52 AM
@Shafizadeh it's a silly phrase, but it basically means the person emphatically agrees.
 
I see .. ok thx
 
cmb
or they are being sarcastic ;)
 
If agreement/disagreement could be measured in numbers, where -5 would be "I disagree with this statement" and 5 would be "I agree with this statement," the person saying "can't agree more" would like to mark a 6, but 5 is the highest they can go
@cmb also possible
 
12:33 PM
@JoeWatkins Could you expand upon your Twitter comments about types? It seems like the more type information you have, the easier it is to erase. That's the premise of TS after all, which ultimately erases almost everything.
 
Link?
 
@MarkR OPCache does this
And it can remove some checks because it knows some types won't coerce or emit diagnostics
 
@Girgias Heavily limited by compile module isn't it? It can't infer the return type of a method in another class because it might be a different one next compile.
 
@MarkR That's a different issue
 
12:37 PM
Why would anyone try to remove types from runtime in a dynamically typed language...?
Isn't that the entire point?
 
Removing types doesn't give you anything
And I'll stand by my opinion that PHP is the only sane runtime language with typing because it checks them at runtime
 
All dynamically typed languages check types at runtime. :) AFAIK.
 
Checking them at runtime carries something like a 5 - 10% overhead if I'm remembering right?
 
That's the important trade-off between static and dyn typing.
 
No, I don't consider Python checking at runtime when you pass it an incorrect value at function entry and it blows up 5 function call deep
The types are completely ignored until the Runtime can't deal with it
@MarkR Use OPCache...
 
12:43 PM
Opcache deals with replacing certain operands if it can infer both sides from what i've seen from various presentations, it can't for example delete the checks from the receiver if it knows it's sent the right types, or is that not the case?
 
Maybe, can we stop allowing ourselves to have conversations driven by asshole trolls who have spent years optimising their trolling to drive up the number of people who click on their sites for that sweet sweet advertising dollar?
 
It's still an interesting conversation to have Danack, because more typing = more better, but would come at increasing performance cost unless they could be erased.
 
This PHP-FPM issue was reported for the master branch. Who's the best person I can tap to verify and follow up on it? bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=81275
 
@MarkR I'm far from an OpCache expert, but it doesn't do just that you get constant propagation, dead code elimination, and more, something might have been recently moved to Zend/Optimizer but the 1 time check which leads until possible better optimization because it knows something is of a constrained type instead of mixed is usually better
 
FYI, I'm getting ready to do the builds for 8.1.0beta2, so if there's something that needs to be merged to master for inclusion in this release, right now is the time. :-)
 
12:47 PM
And Typing has rarely been about optimization but about DX
 
@MarkR Figuring out how to build something that does that with preprocess.io/# is interesting....responding to Brendt's article with a sprinkling of comments from Reddit is not as interesting.
 
Because if you only cared about optimizations you would not have used $v === null but is_null($v) and == over === for comparisons where you knew that both operands where of the same type because this was better optimized then their strict equivalences in PHP 8.0/8.1
And I think it makes more sense to fix PHP's compilation unit problem by having some sort of package notion then chasing erased types
 
imo full-application compilation is PHP's future in production, but package level seems like it would be a good start.
 
@MarkR I hope not...
 
@OlleHärstedt Ever heard of preloading?
 
12:52 PM
Adding compilation to PHP --> No reason to use PHP. ;) Might as well use a saner, better designed language at that point.
But people do it for JS, I guess.
 
@ramsey bukka. That doesn't look master related though
In fact it sounds familiar ... there might even be a PR for that
 
@NikiC Cool. I'll dig around. Thanks!
 
@MarkR Oh, you mean only at deployment? Sure, that makes sense. :)
 
@MarkR Opcache can only drop return type checks, but not arg type checks
Because arg type checks are part of the callee, not the caller
Though maybe the JIT can drop them, not sure on that
 
ty
 
1:04 PM
If you do both strict typing and escape analysis, you can skip the zval wrapper entirely, actually. In theory.
Here's a talk about it for OCaml: janestreet.com/tech-talks/unboxed-types-for-ocaml
"Unboxed types"
But maybe Go's escape analysis is closer at hand.
 
1:24 PM
Hm, what's DFA in "DFA optimization"?
Deterministic finite automaton?
 
@OlleHärstedt data flow analysis
 
@bwoebi Oh ok, thanks!
 
Support a NIST SP 800-63B compatible password hash algorithm ・ *Encryption and hash functions ・ #81326
 
heya
morning
 
2:08 PM
Are all passes enabled by default in zend_optimize()?
 
cmb
@OlleHärstedt see php.net/manual/en/…
 
Thanks!
 
2:52 PM
mornin @ln-s
 
cmb
3:05 PM
[The current PEAR Group membership lasts from June 15th, 2009 until June 15th, 2010, […]](pear.php.net/group)
 
I think it's a-pear-ant that it's a bit outdated and/or dead.
 
is there a way to unload an extension at runtime?
 
No
 
@FlávioHeleno What are you trying to achieve (why do you want to do that)?
 
At which version did PHP start supporting just extension=name (ie, zend_extension=xdebug) ? PHP 7.2 or earlier?
7.2, it seems
 
cmb
3:28 PM
 
couldn't find it in the changelog :-)
 
@AllenJB replace the extension binary (.so / .dll) using php instead of using bash or some other alternative
 
3:45 PM
found a way around it :)
 
Hello
 
Hello friends and @DaveRandom! o/
 
@PeeHaa lolol
 
@FlávioHeleno
 
hallo
 
3:53 PM
hola
 
hola!
 
Hola !
 
4:12 PM
Error build openssl extension on php 7.4.22 ・ Compile Failure ・ #81327
 
 
2 hours later…
6:25 PM
Bonjour!
@Danack So what I hear you saying is... you want to get rid of the Internet?
@PeeHaa 5 days...
 
6:56 PM
안녕하세요
 
Easy for you to say.
 
7:23 PM
List of Parser Tokens is missing T_ATTRIBUTE ・ Documentation problem ・ #81328
 
user4717133
in php: is there any way to apply recursion between two classes without them dying from memory ??? I use the constructor to create the instances ...
 
user4717133
7:39 PM
class Foo1
{
    private Foo2 $foo2;

    public function __construct()
    {
        $this->foo2 = new Foo2();
    }

    public function initMethod($value)
    {
        $this->foo2->iteratorMethod($value);
    }

    public function returnValueType($value)
    {
        if (gettype($value) == 'array') {
            return $this->foo2->iteratorMethod($value);
        } else {
            return gettype($value);
        }
    }
}

class Foo2
{
    private Foo1 $foo1;

    public function __construct()
 
8:29 PM
@FranciscoNúñez-TodoPoderoso You have to have something to stop the recursion. As it is, that will keep creating objects until it crashes.
 
@cmb @Dharman lol... I'm just committing your guys' suggestions directly in github, not paying attention... wrote the fix while on my work computer waiting for a work-related thing to pass code review and decided "this bug is easy enough to fix while I wait..." (it was not because I had to figure out which of our remote dev servers I could clone a repo onto)
and I had missed a closing XML tag that using doc-base/configure caught
 
I don't see any missing closing tag
 
I caught it before pushing :P (php doc-base/configure.php to the rescue)
 
What about "available as of" and then we change it in the other 3 places on that page?
 
generally "as of" is preferred - doc.php.net/tutorial/style.php
> When referring to a specific version of PHP, "since" should not be used. "As of" should be used in this case.
I'm not particular either way, but consistency with already present wording is important
 
9:11 PM
@Derick Q about xdebug_connect_to_client, if I don't set a trigger so it starts off, can I use to connect in response to something else, like an internal flag?
 
9:47 PM
@Tiffany I came here to see what's going on as I have been writing out policies for a better part of 2 hours... only to find more policy verbiage and rules I was trying to escape from... but you're correct. Using consistent verbiage in documents is hard, but valuable. =)
 
10:06 PM
@PeeHaa evening mr whoredick
@StatikStasis sold
 
=P
@DaveRandom How have you been? You ignored my happy Monday message... =/
 
@MarkR I don't think I understand the question?
 
 
1 hour later…
11:28 PM
@DaveRandom ())========D~~~~~
 
@PeeHaa That's getting pinned!
 
it's a peeha!
xD
 
\o/
 
I hate ES
HATE it
it's stupid even for configuring something simple as SSL inter node communication
btw if you are hosting anything in object rocket, think twice, hosts are enumerable and hackers are on the prawl
 

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