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5:03 AM
@bwoebi Of course we can assume that. The discussion was about knowing reflexively which is the lowest precedence.
 
TimeZone::getTransitions Not Working ・ Date/time related ・ #81287
 
 
2 hours later…
6:44 AM
Hi guys
So we are using laravel
On our dedicated server
Speed of everything is quite fast
But loading images is quite slow
Any idea why this could be happening ?
 
 
2 hours later…
8:51 AM
@cmb Do you have any syntax preference for adding the class/interface keyword before class names on class synopsis pages? Currently, I have this in mind:

```
<ooclass>
<classtype>interface</classtype>
<classname>DateTimeInterface</classname>
</ooclass>
```

We have the `oointerface` tag, but I think that's only usable for the `implements` part of the declaration
 
 
2 hours later…
10:35 AM
Could someone who has an instagram + facebook account do me a favour and search for #killupfest #fuckupfestpricks and see if there are any results from before 21st of July?
 
installing pecl/yaml fails ・ yaml ・ #81288
 
cmb
@MateKocsis hmm, not sure if we should modify the docs, or whether we should let PhD do this automatically; I think the latter, but we would need to change classname to interfacename for interfaces in the docs
 
something something QA scripts :D
 
So do you mean this:

<ooclass>
<interfacename>DateTimeInterface</interfacename>
</ooclass>

I like this approach! (I considered it before as well, but didn't seem the best solution at first)
 
cmb
yes
 
10:52 AM
Alright, I'll try to implement this solution. I really hope that I have enough phd-fu :)
 
I'm pretty sure you're the one which has the most of us here
If you want a challenge you could try to make <constant> tags generate links to their appropriate XML ID, but I wonder if for that we don't need consistent stylistic pages for them
 
Hi guys
So we are using laravel
On our dedicated server
Speed of everything is quite fast
But loading images is quite slow
Any idea why this could be happening ?
 
@AnkitSrivastava Is your server very far away from you? And by what measure do you mean the "images are slow" - e.g. if they are multiple megabytes in size, then it would be normal for them to take some time to load.
 
11:07 AM
@d
@Danack no it's not very far
Images aren't big, like even a 100kb image loads slow
Rest of the website loads fast
 
So what precisely do you mean by 'loads slow'?
 
11:20 AM
@Danack like it takes 5 seconds
 
That doesn't indicate that it loads slowly....it could be that something is stopping the browser from retrieving the image for a few seconds, but then it loads fast.

The first think I would do to investigate this is to open the network tab in chrome and see what network requests are active. It could be the image is being served slowly, or it could be there are many active network requests. Figuring out which bit is slow would be the first step in improving it.
 
@Danack its from server side
but its only the images
The front end is built in react
 
12:09 PM
@AnkitSrivastava how do you mean? by what metric are you checking that images "take like five seconds"? but it's from server side? Your question is confusing. If a visitor accesses your site and images take about five seconds to load on the front end, the bottleneck should be visible in the network tab in Chrome dev tools.
 
hey what's up
o/
 
\o
 
12:25 PM
Running php -v results in oci8.old_oci_close_semantics is deprecated message ・ OCI8 related ・ #81289
 
12:36 PM
Guys, can anybody open this image?
the story is, that image was exist on my server, and I removed it a few min ago, but it's still accessible .. how is it possible?
 
1531692219.webp: RIFF (little-endian) data, Web/P image, VP8 encoding, 35x35, Scaling: [none]x[none], YUV color, decoders should clamp
Scaling none x none sounds suspicious
 
@Shafizadeh Cache? Cloud system cache?
 
There is no cloud caching system .. but yes, it's been cached by apache apparently ..
 
12:55 PM
cf-cache-status: HIT
yeah
you have cloud flare cache
 
@ln-s Which cached image hour and a half ago and in case of no changes in settings, would keep it for 7 days.
 
@ln-s how did you understood? Yes, I used cloudflare as DNS server .. never setup something for caching
 
@Shafizadeh Did you set your Cloudflare DNS settings up to proxy only?
 
@Shafizadeh Just check the headers from the response
 
@Shafizadeh Check network tab (Headers) for more information.
 
1:03 PM
Plus you said "There is no cloud caching system .. but yes, it's been cached by apache apparently .."
Good thing I don't trust anyone
 
I see .. got it .. thx guys
 
1:37 PM
Documentation pages: Confusing and unclear "Submit a Pull Request" link ・ Website problem ・ #81290
 
...
 
> Link instead to a page documenting how a change may be performed or proposed
this is true... it needs to be fixed
I know Sara tried doing something with github.com/php/web-php/commit/… but it's a little buggy
something I'd like to fix, but I need to learn how it works
though his complaining about "git-centric" terminology is BS... like it or not, PHP is source controlled through git
may need to set up an array of routes?
https://www.php.net/manual/en/language.oop5.constants.php => https://github.com/php/doc-en/blob/master/language/oop5/constants.xml - manual%2Fen%2F needs removed, then . converted to /, php converted to xml ... hopefully can be done dynamically?
</rubber-ducking>
 
2:06 PM
Issue tracker: "Please enable cookies so the Captcha system can work" error ・ Website problem ・ #81291
 
cmb
2:28 PM
@Tiffany ideally, we would link to github.com/php/doc-en/edit/master/reference/strings/functions/… for strlen() etc. However, that would require a map from "man page" to doc path. Not sure how that was done in the online editor.
 
is that code still available somewhere?
 
Issue tracker: How to Search claims advanced search defaults Find bugs to "all" ・ Website problem ・ #81292
 
semi-related topic question: is www hosted on 7.2? I see that doc-en's github workflow builds on PHP 8.0.8, I want to revise the doc.php.net/tutorial/local-setup.php to include the version of PHP we're currently using on www
 
@cmb thanks
 
3:15 PM
@DaveRandom (or anyone) - what's the appropriate phrase to use to find a stereo amplifier for two pairs of speakers? I'm either getting circuit boards, amplifiers to be fitted in cars or this:
 
@Danack YMMV but I'd tack "studio" or "in-home" on to it (if I'm understanding what you're looking for correctly)
 
Think I might go to an actual shop for once....
 
Yea...
That looks a little complex for 2 speakers lol
 
4 speakers - but that's the thing that seems to be throwing the search results off.
 
ah, I see
 
3:43 PM
Abstract method cases() in trait imoses contract upon the exhibiting enum ・ Class/Object related ・ #81293
 
4:01 PM
That seems legit.
 
Too legit to quit?
 
4:40 PM
@Dharman I remember you said you had trouble building the docs locally, could you run through github.com/php/web-doc/blob/… and see if this is any better for you? I'm not sure if you build on Windows or Linux, but I revised this based around Git Bash on Windows. The only major difference is I used a different "root" directory than the implied Linux home directory.
 
thanks. I'll try that soon
 
other thing to note is that it's probably easier to copy/paste the files from the output/php-web directory into the manual/en directory, but I left the example for symlinking since I think that would be preferred for most Linux users
 
@Danack Are you looking for an actual amplifier, mixer or soundcard?
 
an amplifier, that I can plug computer or phone into and have the sound come out the speakers that are connected to the amp.
 
I am willing to bet @Ekin knows something. I will bug her in a bit
 
4:54 PM
ta
 
@cmb @Girgias I've just noticed that display of union types is currently completely broken in the manual: e.g. php.net/manual/en/class.reflectionreference.php (see the return type). I guess it is caused by the intersection type related changes.
 
cmb
@MateKocsis checking
 
@Danack They are passive speakers I assume?
 
@MarkR yep. 100w and 6ohms in 2 pairs.
 
A quad channel power amplifier would be my suggestion - gear4music.com/PA_Equipment/… 4 channel
 
5:09 PM
 
@MarkR yeah, like that.
 
LGTM! :D
 
cmb
5:34 PM
The required changes to PhD for nullable intersection types might be harder than for php-src.
 
I mean... does PhD really need support for that if there is no support for that with arginfos ?
It would be great, but I don't think it's the thing with highest priority :-/
 
6:27 PM
So... gofundme campaign to get Joe to implement scalar objects? :-) twitter.com/krakjoe/status/1419248875437703171
 
Can scalar objects be done without performance hit?
 
Don't see why not, as long as we don't have mutable methods, unless Joe can find a way around that.
 
We could all pool our money and give him a year to do generics. :-P (That's probably the biggest "thing that needs money" timesink.)
 
^ This
 
Personally I see no need at all to include generics in core PHP, since Psalm or Phpstan is needed to make PHP livable anyway. YMMV. ^^
 
6:38 PM
Lousy non-technical CEO: That's just HHVM copy paste bruh
 
Psalm and phpstan is absolutely not needed. Powerful tools, but not essential in most cases.
 
@MarkR Hm, I need to read the RFC carefully.
 
I've not used phpstan until I started working on TYPO3 this year (since it has stan baked into its CI pipeline).
 
@MarkR OK, well, then you might be more motivated to do generics, yes.
 
Unless scalar methods are user-extensible, I'm not sure I'd support them. If they were, then I'm listening.
 
6:42 PM
I think they'd be both tbh Crell... I'd fully expect a default implementation and then the ability to override it at per-file level
But things like JS has scalar methods and 99%+ of uses are the built-ins
 
I'd prefer to see generics rather than scalar objects tbh, is_scalar would be broken in many user implementations I guess with scalar objects
 
Why would it?
Scalar objects means scalar types expose methods and properties as if they were like an object, but they're not actually objects.
"hello"->substr(3)
 
"not actually objects"...? hm.
 
Correct, an int is still an int, but the -> operator looks up a different method table specific to that type, rather than referencing the functions in the CE belonging to the instance.
 
How many ways can that bite you...?
 
6:49 PM
Why would it bite you? It's how almost all modern languages work
 
There's two ways to do scalar methods, in concept. One is auto-boxing, where 'foo'->substr(3) mutates into (new StringWrapper('foo'))->substr(3). The other is some kind of unwrap, where it mutates into string_method_substr('foo', 3);
 
I see it as syntax candy rather than functionality (btw I thought you meant something different by scalar objects)
 
(At least that's my understanding.)
 
It is syntax candy in a way, it treats the left hand side as an automatically set parameter to another function similar to $this
 
@MarkR I mean, if it behaves like an object it's fair to assume (by the dev) that you can use it as an object.
But if other languages work like that and they have no problems, then ok.
 
6:50 PM
That's not a good assumption :-)
 
I still like |> as functionally equivalent. :-)
 
? @MarkR
 
@Crell ... kind of meh
 
All it does is overload the -> operator
 
Yes, but why would a normal dev care about the internals of the language?
Or rather, I'd argue a normal does should not have to care about such things.
 
6:52 PM
he never said that the dev should care about that
 
anyone offer feedback? github.com/php/web-doc/pull/17 this would revise doc.php.net/tutorial/local-setup.php so that it mostly actually works in a Linux enviornment. There are some assumptions made about the working directory (noted at the top), but it's otherwise an improvement over the current tutorial which doesn't work if followed exactly.
 
Wouldn't they have to? When the language adds exceptions to the syntax. @ln-s
 
What I understood is that it's a way of expressing the same thing but with a different syntax, without any changes in the functionality, to which I say, if it's the same, it's not a feature for the language it's just syntax candy, generics are new functionality that bring an interesting concept for the language and make it more type oriented
Long story short: I don't care if JS has "hello".substr(3)
 
Scalar methods offer two conceptual benefits: 1) Chaining without having to come up with intermediary variables. 2) Don't need to think about parameter order.

Basically, point-free style.

(And it's that realization that made me conclude that pipes were superior as they offered the same capability plus more, but now I'm beating a dead horse.)
 
7:09 PM
Syntax sugar is fine, but it's not so fine to re-use old syntax in new context and change its meaning. It adds another "quirk" to the language. @ln-s
 
I doubt very much you'd find support for that argument in relation to scalar objects
 
For scalar objects? Nah, it's already too common I guess.
I'd argue for it with callables, foo(...), re-using function call syntax without actually making a function call.
 
blame the symbol tables :-)
 
Yeah, I know
@Crell Oh yeah. Never seen it used like that in FP, tho. strlen s is accepted.
 
True, strictly FP languages don't seem to do that much from what I've seen. But I still think for PHP it would be a good approach. cf github.com/Crell/fp/tree/master/src
 
7:14 PM
Segfault when removing a filter ・ Filter related ・ #81294
 
7:31 PM
@cmb @cmb I've just found out how to fix the issue properly when I was working on displaying simple nullable types via using "?". I need some time to push it.
(sorry for the double ping again ^^)
 
8:33 PM
@Crell Would love to this syntax for arrays too. I love Doctrine's Collections, just for the syntax.
I'm happy with all improvements in PHP over the last years, but the array/string function naming and parameter order are still a mess. I don't know anything about the internals of PHP, but syntax like $string->startsWith('foo') or $array->count() would fix both problems.
 
8:50 PM
Does anyone know how to set up PDO testing environment on Ubuntu? I keep getting SQLSTATE[HY000] [2002] No such file or directory
Uhh, never mind, I just set up a symbolic link for the socket, like sudo ln -s /var/run/mysqld/mysqld.sock /tmp/mysql.sock
 
cmb
@Tiffany symlinking is quite useful for that on Windows, too
 
9:25 PM
Is there a way to debug PHP src in WSL2?
 
cmb
@Dharman VSCode should work; if you have it installed on Windows, typing code . in WSL console should get you started.
 
Then I am not using WSL correctly
I have a Ubuntu window open
ok, no wait
It is downloading something
Ok, I got VSCode open and C/C++ plugin installed
I started debugger and now when I execute make TESTS, how can I get the debugger?
It is complaining about ""program": "enter program name, for example ${workspaceFolder}/a.out","
>program (required)#
Specifies the full path to the executable the debugger will launch or attach to. The debugger requires this location in order to load debug symbols
I still don't know what that is
@cmb What did you put for ""program": "${workspaceFolder}/sapi/cli/php""?
 
cmb
@Dharman yes, but this may not work for make test; you need child process debugging, and I never did this this on Linux.
 
9:40 PM
I still cannot start the debugger
 
That's what we're talking about as "scalar methods."

That said, you can use a pipe emulation function and some higher order functions to emulate that today. That's what the library I just posted is doing.
 
It says missing "MIDebuggerPAth"
 
cmb
that worked fine for me when I last tried, but I'm still on WSL1
maybe just use GDB directly?
 
Ok, I had to install sudo apt-get install gdb
but now I get the debugger started and it doesn't stop on breakpoint even when I run /mnt/d/projects/php-src/sapi/cli/php /mnt/c/wamp64/www/formatter/rubbish.php
 
cmb
9:58 PM
does it break with "stopAtEntry": true,?
 
@cmb no, it doesn't
 
cmb
no ideas then; google?
 
should I do make clean?
 
cmb
10:16 PM
Do you have a debug build?
 

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