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12:02 AM
not that it's really related at all... we've recently upgraded to php 8 and we've got this... 'pattern' of eww code going on with ctors that have all params nullable and null by default, combined with named args usage that's only used to work around that
 
12:15 AM
@JoeWatkins Should you forbid using a named param with ?
I'm thinking yes, as it doesn't work as expected, so an error would be preferred.
 
you're expecting the wrong thing :)
imagine the initial application site is nowhere near declaration of function - which is normal ... named parameter placeholders appear to provide value, function(param: ?, next: ?, named : 10) appears to be a whole bunch clearer than function(?, ?, 10)
using named parameters doesn't allow you to redeclare a function, just like it doesn't today ...
now imagine the final call site is far away from the initial application site, you get benefit of using named parameters if you use them ...
 
@JoeWatkins The problem with that is if the function is declared as function($next, $param, $named)
Intuition tells you that you can call it as $partial($param, $next, $named), but you'd be wrong.
 
12:30 AM
@Levi I fixed the strange direct application of __construct ... it seems like we don't need to forbid any magic in that case, although we could it, might seem arbitrary ... so I leave it for now ...
@Trowski you intuitively think you re-declared the function, you didn't ... your intuition just seems wrong to me ...
 
@JoeWatkins I know I didn't, but you can see where people would expect that behavior, right?
 
no, you're expecting the benefit of named parameters at a call site where you are not using named parameters ...
 
Could you error if someone attempts to re-declare it?
@JoeWatkins This to me is just weird: 3v4l.org/p7cfS/rfc#output
 
but you wrote the code wrong, again, you're expecting benefits of named parameter where you are not using them
 
So I'm holding it wrong?
If I did something wrong, I'd really like an error message.
That's really my main point. I have no problem with the current behavior, but tell me when I'm doing it wrong.
 
12:39 AM
how are we supposed to know if you understand named parameters or not internally ?
 
This is a new use for named parameters.
Now you're using them at a non-call site.
 
but why you should expect different behaviour is what I don't understand ... named parameters are applied in the same way everywhere, but can only be applied as named parameters if you actually are using named parameters ...
not using them, and saying "this doesn't work like named parameters" is bizarre ...
 
I think you're missing my main point. I understand that not using them at the call site is wrong. My point is that $partial = foo(baz: 'baz', bar: ?); should error.
 
Because foo(baz: 'baz', ?) does error, and that's effectively what you're declaring.
 
12:47 AM
you can't use positional arguments after named arguments
 
Sure, but foo(baz: 'baz', bar: ?) is actually equivalent to foo(?, baz: 'baz')
That's weird.
 
@Trowski It seems like you haven't internalized this yet:
All these `$partial`s are the same, and here I do
not mean equivalent but literally the same:

    function f($x, $y) {}
    $partial = f(?);
    $partial = f(?, ?);
    $partial = f(?, ?, ?);
    $partial = f(?, ?, ?, ?);
    $partial = f(?, ?, ?, ?, ?);
 
Yes, I understand that.
 
I don't think you do.
 
I think neither of you is understanding the other, but it's fun to watch.
 
12:50 AM
But f(named1: 'value', named2: ?) being equivalent to f(?, named1: 'value') seems weird.
 
If you expect (foo: ?) to be any different from (?), then you haven't internalized it.
 
You're missing my point again.
I understand that's the case, but can you not see why someone may expect otherwise?
 
So, I did expect (foo:?) to be different from (?), and if we're going to ignore argument naming then it should be an error, not a silent erasure
 
Thank you!
 
@Trowski Yes, understand why they may think that, but only if they don't understand what ? means.
That's why I think you haven't got it yet.
? does not create a single arg in the resulting closure signature.
Partials are about the concrete things bound, not the holes.
 
12:53 AM
One can understand why the behavior is unexpected while still thinking the behavior is wrong.
 
Joe has tried to explain this to you as well ^_^
 
And I don't mean the binding semantics as wrong, I mean the failure to treat using it that way as an error.
 
@Sara This is the point I'm trying to make
 
And I still don't think @LeviMorrison understands that foo(bar: ?) is an error yet.
 
All I ask is using a named param with ? to be an error.
 
12:55 AM
He's too focused on the idea that wanting that is wrong.
 
@Sara You also still don't understand it ^_^
 
Exactly, you don't udnerstand it.
But that's okay, I forgive you.
 
I'm not trying to be arrogant here -- I genuinely still think you haven't grasped that it's about the concrete things, not the holes. (bar: ?) is a hole -- it doesn't have any affect at all except that it marks the thing as a partial call instead of regular.
 
Point to a statement I made which is incorrect?
 
The named argument there attempts to attach a name to the hole. But that doesn't work, so it should be an error.
 
12:58 AM
Meaningless things are not necessarily errors.
 
@LeviMorrison And that statement is what you're not grasping.
Because it's not meaningless, it's MISLEADING.
It has meaning and that meaning is wrong.
Allowing something THAT misleading to simply be, and exist in its wrongness is a bad idea.
 
Should I forbid (arg_that_doesnt_exist: ?) as well?
 
Honestly? Yeah.
But that's irrelevant here.
 
Then why not f(?, ?) when f only takes a single argument?
 
$partial = foo(something: ?); implies to the caller something which is manifestly untrue.
 
1:01 AM
@Sara How so? It binds no arguments, and creates a closure for the remainder (which is all of them).
 
BECAUSE IT BINDS NO ARGUMENTS
It says "Hi, I'm named arg syntax for binding to argments" and they whispers to the audience, "BUT I WON'T BECAUSE I'M A NAUGHTY BOY!"
 
But... ? never binds any arguments.
 
Jesus Levi, you're not this thick.
 
It's literally a hole....
@Sara Thanks.
 
I'm going to screencap this conversation and share it with Reddit when they ask why this syntax doesn't do what it looks like it should.
 
1:03 AM
@LeviMorrison That's debatable too. I know the implementation wouldn't change, but perhaps it should be an error to have superfluous placeholders.
 
Why it doesn't even raise a warning saying "This is meaningless syntax"
 
To be honest... all these complains would be legitimate if ? did create a 1:1 translation to an argument in the resulting closure. At one point I did design the RFC that way, and ... translated to the rest of them.
 
Because this is PHP, where the language isn't designed.
 
@LeviMorrison Explicitness might be nice. Use ... for variadic partials, like foo(?, 'defined', ...);
 
But... that's now how it's designed. That's not what ? means (right now).
 
1:05 AM
Dude, it doesn't matter what the implementation details are.
It matters what the behavior is.
 
@Sara Yes, I'm talking about the behavior in the RFC. In the past, ? translated 1:1 to a position as an arg, so f(?) and f(?, ?) were different.
 
I mean, you do understand that there are going to be users of this feature that didn't take part in the design of it, right?
 
@Sara Yes, but I can't help it if they don't understand a feature.
 
And you understand that these users also know named arguments exist?
 
I mean, to a degree it's my fault, I suppose.
 
1:06 AM
And that maybe they might try to combine them?
Which is why I can't understand why you think that ignoring that case is better than erroring.
This is something we can trivially detect and provide feedback for.
 
How strongly do you feel about this? Because if you think that should be an error, then I think the current design is wrong -- it's not just that it's missing an error in this case.
 
And you're like, "Fuck the bastards for not reading the C code."
I do think the current behavior is wrong, but again, and you keep missing this point, THAT'S NOT RELEVANT HERE.
 
pretty strongly, she called you stupid ...
 
Did I? I recall saying he's not this thick.
 
I'm leaning toward ? being one-to-one with arguments, if that wouldn't be difficult to change @JoeWatkins.
 
1:09 AM
I don't think he's stupid.
 
we heard what you said
 
It's okay, Joe, I took no offense.
She didn't mean any.
 
I do, wtf
 
I do think he's refusing to argue in good faith, but that's naught to do with intelligence.
 
If you think (bar: ?) should be an error in the current RFC, then I think we've got the fundamental basis of the RFC wrong, and it should be changed.
We shouldn't just slap an error on there.
 
1:10 AM
The two aren't mutually exclusive though.
The approach /can/ be fine, blindly accepting invalid syntax would 100% be a mistake.
 
Named parameters came after the bulk of the design work for this RFC -- they did not exist when it was designed.
 
And we're back to non-sequiters.
The fact that they came along in parallel doesn't change the fact that they exist.
 
@Sara I think the disagreement is on "invalid" vs "meaningless" vs "misleading".
@Sara I just meant to say that maybe it does need redesigned.
 
(name: ?) is all three of those things
I don't disagree about it needing redesign.
It's just an orthogonal issue.
I'm sitting here saying, "A is wrong", and you're replying with "B needs to be redesigned".
Fine, redesign B. It doesn't change A being wrong.
 
Ignore what's written in the RFC to the best of your ability. Based on whatever intuition you have, what should happen here:
function f($a, $b) {/*...*/}
f(?)(1, 2); // what happens?
 
1:17 AM
Some will answer an error, not enough params.
Which I think is a problem.
 
What about case B:
 
Or even too many params.
Depending on how you're visualizing partials.
 
function B() {/*...*/}
B(?); // what happens?
 
That's a case where the current behavior is nice.
Otherwise I'm not sure how you'd have a nice syntax for making a callable from B.
 
@Trowski You'd need something like B(...) or B(...?).
 
1:19 AM
IMO that's the case where ...? would have been slightly more descriptive
 
Yeah, ...? seems nice.
 
Not gonna answer a meaningless question that's entirely off topic.
 
o.O?
 
@Trowski I mean, I'd probably use the syntax: 'B'
Or in a pinch: Closure::fromCallable('B')
 
Sure. In the back of my mind I was hoping to someday deprecate string and array callables.
 
1:23 AM
((hence the "in a pinch" part. :D ))
 
So I was hoping for a general purpose syntax for "give me a callable from B"
 
IMO we'll remove them but fromCallable will still accept arrays / strings
 
Closure::fromFunctionName(string), Closure::fromMethod(string|object, string)
But that's like PHP 10 timeframe, not really worth discussing now other than I'd like partials to be able to declare parameter-less callables.
 
Eh... I'd put deprecating string/array callables on the 8.x table.
I think the ecosystem is probably more ready for that than we think it is.
Especially if Closure::fromCallable() continues functioning and/or we add more specific factories
 
True, they are way more nimble than before.
Closure::fromCallable could stay as-is for legacy, sure.
With partials there wouldn't be much reason for it anymore.
 
1:27 AM
IMO it will be used when doing configs for containers etc
 
I'd argue that overloading PFA into being able to invoke arg-less function callables is an abuse, but wutevs on that tbqh.
 
@MarkR Explain how vs. using a partial.
 
@Crell I don't think we'll be ready for a vote next week.
 
@Trowski If you have say a large list of routes in an array, you don't want to instantiate a partial for every single one every time, instead you'd keep them in an array or whatever and then call fromCallable on the one you wanted.
 
FTR; So long as the design allows meaningless syntax to do the opposite of expectations, my vote will be -1. And it kills me to vote against this.
 
1:29 AM
@Sara Probably, but I've always hated referring to a method using an array. That at least feels better.
 
I must have missed part of the convo, which is the meaningless syntax?
 
@Trowski I don't enjoy array or string calling, but ya do what ya gotta do
 
@MarkR Partial vs. string or array… meh.
 
@MarkR (bar: ?) not being an error.
 
function realFunc($a = 1, $b = 2) {
  echo "a = $a | b = $b\n";
}
$partial = realFunc(b: ?);
$partial(5); // Outputs "a=5 | b=2"
^^ That not being an error, specifically
 
1:31 AM
@MarkR But if we retain fromCallable (or add other methods) you could still do that.
 
@Trowski Sure, but we don't need 'callable' to actually be a thing in the engine for that to work.
 
Yep, agreed.
 
@Sara Hmm. Wasn't it supposed to pass unknown named params in the variadic array? I protested that, but I didn't think it was changed.
Ah, wait, it does.
 
But evidently named variadics don't unpack? Awwwwkwaaaaard
Well, fortunately they never did unpack ( 3v4l.org/830DS ), but that also feels suspect...
Thank God I write C++ all day. I'd go mental having to deal with such a slapdash language.
 
@Sara You missed some quotes :)
 
1:43 AM
@Sara I think they do: 3v4l.org/S9cCf. Look at the backtrace in the error.
 
@Trowski Heh, good call, I didn't even look at the error. : 3v4l.org/tTGVc
@LeviMorrison Hrmm, indeed.
Okay, and var_dump() ignoring named args... makes sense.
Don't love the specific error message, but... okay
If var_dump() were userspace, we'd get a message about an unknown arg name. Instead, we get "not enough positional args" (essentially)
'cause yay! consistency! looks around awkwardly
Here's my final argument that using named args with partial holes should be an error: Because then we can NEVER support PFA and named args being used together.
Doing so would potentially change how a positional arg gets applied, which would be a BC break.
 
All Z_PARAM_VARIADIC need to be replaced with Z_PARAM_VARIADIC_WITH_NAMED I guess.
 
I wonder if var_dump(foo: "bar"); should output something like foo: string(3) "bar" or if that's causing too much trouble.
 
Does 8 change how zval memory management works? (Compared to 7)
 
Probably fine, since it wasn't supported before.
 
1:48 AM
(random question that came up at work that I didn't know the answer to)
 
@Trowski In some subtle ways, but not in any way you're likely to notice. Why?
Erm, that was supposed to be a reply to tiffany
@Tiffany 5->7 was a radical change to the variable memory model. 7->8 just shifted a couple flag meanings in mostly internal-only contexts
 
At least one or two extensions that would have to be rewritten or rid of
Ah, that explains our lead's response
 
Extensions from 7 -> 8 should mostly require little change, though of course that depends on what the extension does.
A simple layer to a C API should require little to no changes.
 
Thanks
 
There are some nice macros that were added in 8 for zval copy/return/etc.
 
2:05 AM
https://chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/11?m=52136331#52136331
^^ Comedic gold
 
Hi guys, not exactly related to PHP here, but has anyone dealt with generate google calendar links ? I have some odd question: why is the hour 8 am represented as 13 ? Look at the bottom text example here: w3.org/TR/NOTE-datetime
 
Congratulations, you've discovered timezones.
$5 says you live on the US east coast, amirite?
 
I remember protesting that unknown names made it into the variadic pack, but I didn't remember that unknown named parameters without a variadic was a fatal error: 3v4l.org/Ui7k5. That's actually progressive! Figured legacy variadics would have prevented it...
 
Wait, no. DST. US/Central then
@LeviMorrison I mean, named args are new, so it's not like there's any BC to break.
 
@Sara Oh haha I see. Interesting. And actually, I am current in the west coast usa in california, but i see the example time is based in eastern time.
 
2:18 AM
Ah, missed that it was an example. :p
 
@Arrow -0500 = UTC-5
 
But yes, US/Eastern is UTC-0500. As in 5 hours behind UTC. 8 + 5 == 13
 
@Tiffany @Sara Got it, thank you !!!
 
Bloody Brits scowls
dodges tomatoes thrown by the Brits when they wake up
 
Eh... Gotta have a meridian somewhere.
On balance, the spot actually makes a decent amount of sense, placing the antemeridian in the bering straits
 
2:22 AM
also, we invented everything, including americans, so we should have it ...
 
Well, roughly anyway
1/32nd of me harumphs at that (America being a European invention)
COLONIZER!
 
Snrk
 
/me checks 23&me ("mostly british") DAMN MY GENES!
 
@JoeWatkins ah yes, Britain's best invention. =D
 
I still haven't tried that... but pretty sure I'm the same
 
2:25 AM
My family records point more to Sweeden, so I'm going on the theory that I'm a LITERAL VIKING
Or Asgardian. I actually resemble Thor's body shape.... in End-Game.
Well... technically there's a Goebbels in the family records as well, but we try not to focus on every little branch of the tree... >,<
 
Colbert asked Hugh Laurie "do you know what England's greatest gift to the world is?", Hugh said nothing, Colbert says "America". Before that Hugh said "Jazz is America's greatest gift to the world".
 
I'll have to try it when I know what my budget will be in a month.
 
Honestly, 23&me didn't tell me anything I didn't already know
 
@Sara I grew up being told that Lincoln was a 16th cousin or something (bloody phone)
 
That's kinda cool.
Best I can lay claim to is Gene Roddenberry being a 2nd cousin.
 
2:30 AM
I'm kinda curious about my medical history, given that my mom had Von Hippel-Lindau disease, it's autosomal dominant, but I don't have it... I'm curious what I do have
 
Genes are funny things
 
Aye
I have lymphedema and osteoarthritis in my right leg and hip (respectively). I'm 34. I'm too young for the osteoarthritis. Lymphedema I've had since I was 13-14ish.
 
Was having a random conversation with the wife about the probability of siblings being identical twins (as in having the same chromosomes -- ignoring small mutations), despite being born from separate gametes.
Decided that 2^46 was a sufficiently big number to make it.... improbable at best.
 
😆
Oh and I guess I have cataracts. I got lucky without getting Von Hippel-Lindau, but it's like my genes said "yeah, but that ain't much..." granted, I am very glad I don't have VHL. Shit's horrible.
Osteoarthritis is slightly better.
Either way, this bloodline ends with me.
 
2:57 AM
@Sara LOL =D
Still Thor, so who cares.
 
3:17 AM
Related, if you've been watching "Mythic Quest"... The lady who plays Poppy also played Sif in the play-in-a-play at the start of Thor: Ragnarok. Her only line is "Somebody! Help!" but I reckon that's a cool actor credit anyway.
 
3:32 AM
@Sara I've read that show is good in a few places, but the first couple episodes seemed pretty meh. Can I assume it gets better?
 
 
2 hours later…
6:00 AM
@Trowski If you're a wow player, it's pretty funny. That said, they definitely took a few stumbles story-wise. Threads that got spun up in one episode and never touched again. Yeah... they're working on finding their feet.
Kinda diggin' Bratak as a slightly pervy sci-fi author has-been though.
 
@Levi @Crell whatever the solution to this named parameter thing is, it should not include changing the order of arguments ... so bare that in mind while deciding ...
 
6:42 AM
ie. it's not practical to think about changing the application site into a declaration site ... at the application site the function being called may not be known, all we can do is generate code complicit with calling convention and valid for a function with a compatible prototype ... even when the function is known, we cannot reasonably change the epilogue of the function, the arguments must come in the order they are prototyped ...
and I still don't think you should expect the benefits of named parameters where you are not using them, this whole "this thing that uses positional arguments doesn't behave like you are using named parameters" makes no sense at all ...
<?php
function realFunc($a = 1, $b = 2) {
  echo "a = $a | b = $b\n";
}
$partial = realFunc(b: ?);
$partial(5); // Outputs "a=5 | b=2"
this behaves strangely, because the code is wrong
<?php
function realFunc($a = 1, $b = 2) {
  echo "a = $a | b = $b\n";
}
$partial = realFunc(b: ?);
$partial(b: 5); // Outputs "a = 1 | b = 5"
is the correct code ...
 
7:11 AM
I get that some people may think it should error, but don't see how we're practically meant to tell what your intentions are, given the very real restrictions we're working under ... trying to reason about the intention of code that is incorrect doesn't seem like a good use of time, that time would probably be better spent documenting how things actually work ...
 
@JoeWatkins maybe 5 should be passed as b? so arguments that have placeholders take priority when not using named arguments, then the rest. makes more sense, but not sure 🤷‍♂️
 
they're both valid calls, even if one looks strange, there's no way to tell which one you meant to make ... the one that looks strange is simply wrong ...
it's wrong, given knowledge of the intention that you wanted it to be b:5, but we can't determine either way what your intention is, and they're both valid calls ...
 
you are right
well, that best way to prevent these mistakes would be to forbid partial functions with named arguments, but that can be done in userland using a static analyzer, since there might be a valid use case for them.
 
that would reduce the value of the feature imo ... and imo it can be solved with good documentation ...
 
7:28 AM
hence why i said it could be done in userland, you shouldn't bother with it :)
 
8:09 AM
omg we have a fully green build
 
wow
@NikiC 4 1/2 hours is about normal, the slowdown was temporary ?
 
@JoeWatkins yeah
It was slow for about 24h and then recovered
 
maybe lots of people ditched travis that day ...
 
8:47 AM
@NikiC how do we look at the build on cirrus ?
 
@JoeWatkins Click the link in the build status?
 
ah I see it now
 
"Failed in 00:11" yay
 
yeah, pretty good first attempt ... there'll be another 40 of those at least ...
are you at all familiar with this one ?
 
Now we'll be using azure, appveyor, travis and cirrus. We're still missing github actions to complete the set :P
@JoeWatkins nope
 
8:53 AM
me neither
 
Morning
 
9:18 AM
@NikiC is there some known thing that would cause macos to fault where nothing else seems too (in CI), that you know of ?
moin @Tiffany
I mean I don't see it, but maybe something particular about the build, I tried every combination of compiler, sanitizer and valgrind and can't reproduce the fault here ...
 
@JoeWatkins macos uses clang. try disabling gcc globals regs maybe?
 
Waking up without a migraine is like waking up a whole new person. I can read code without my head pounding.
@JoeWatkins should the docs explain the intention of partials? Like it's there something I can read that explains to me why the first one is strange so that I could explain it in the docs? (I dunno if that makes sense, I probably need caffeine)
(I'm using "I" but I should probably use the royal "we" since I dunno if it'll be me documenting it, but my life will soon get back in order and I'm hoping to come back to docs within this month)
 
9:35 AM
you can only consider it strange if you know that the intention was something other than what was written, and the thing you intended to write has correct syntax ... the point is we can only assume that you intended to execute the code you wrote, and the first one looks like an intentional call that doesn't use named parameters, and the second one looks like an intentional call that uses named parameters, both are valid calls and there doesn't seem to be anything we can do to resolve that
other than document it
 
So the first one won't error, but within the docs it can be said "this one will behave strangely, use at your own peril"
 
9:50 AM
it's not really that we need to document, because it's only strange depending on your knowledge of it's intention, it's specifically the interactions with named parameters and positional arguments that need to be documented
 
Gotcha
 
hey
how can I describe polimorfizm in a few words?
 
Seems like something easy to google
 
yeah, but there is a looooottt of info about it
 
What are you having difficulty understanding?
 
10:00 AM
I can't explain to myself what it is in a theory. Is it an ability to use methods of the class which extends another class or what?
 
Do you have time to watch YouTube videos? There are a couple that explain it far better than I can. And are more interesting to watch.
 
Ok:( sorry for interrupting
 
my one sentence attempt: "polymorphism is the ability for different but related objects to have different but related behaviour"
3
 
@entithat no, it's not that. I'm just not very good at explaining it accurately, and I know of two youtube videos that may help you
 
can you share them pls?
 
10:03 AM
@JoeWatkins did globals regs help?
 
yeah, that done it, good call
 
@entithat google code tech talk about polymorphism let me find the second one because I forgot it was taken down for an unknown reason
 
it's not entirely irrelevant to understand what "polymorphism" means in plain English, as well; Wiktionary offers "The ability to assume different forms or shapes."
 
but that deffinition is not related to a programming
 
10:07 AM
thanks a lot
 
@entithat have you heard the concept "prefer composition over inheritance"?
 
hm, probably no
 
The difficulty with polymorphism is it gets misused as code reuse through a child class extending off a parent class, when there are usually better options. But it's challenging to figure out what those better options are while inexperienced
If I can suggest, Head First Design Patterns may also help you.
 
yeah, we should probably teach polymorphism via pure interfaces first, and treat inheriting behaviour as the extra case on top
 
Composition over inheritance (or composite reuse principle) in object-oriented programming (OOP) is the principle that classes should achieve polymorphic behavior and code reuse by their composition (by containing instances of other classes that implement the desired functionality) rather than inheritance from a base or parent class. This is an often-stated principle of OOP, such as in the influential book Design Patterns (1994). == Basics == An implementation of composition over inheritance typically begins with the creation of various interfaces representing the behaviors that the system must...
 
10:11 AM
the important aspect of polymorphism is not the parent-child relationships but the "sibling" relationships
 
hm ok, I need to read that book, but I have an interview in a few hours xD
can I say I'm using polimorphism in such piece of code? pastebin.com/B0u5TTUJ
(java as an example)
 
@entithat That may have been a little poorly planned :P
 
you can start by spelling it correctly
 
yeah, sorry polimorphism
 
but yes, that's the idea: an Employee and a Client are the "different but related objects", and the two definitions of "foo" are the "different but related behaviour"
 
10:15 AM
the problem is that all examples in google is related to real-world examples. And that why I cant understand how can I apply this knowlenges to my applications
@IMSoP good :)
 
Sometimes it's better to think of a class as a collection of behaviors rather than a physical object to represent
But it varies on use case.
 
like that guy on the second vid says
 
simplified real-world example: you need to process a payment, so you have a "PaymentHandler" interface with a function "pay"; you then have two implementations of that interface, one for Paypal and one for ApplePay; both have their own implementation of "pay"; the calling code just calls "pay" on an object and it "polymorphically" calls the appropriate implementation
 
@Tiffany worth watching youtu.be/knNaUSLhx-U
 
@Gordon I thought this was Rebecca at first...
 
10:20 AM
@IMSoP Got it. Thanks
 
@Tiffany nah, Rebecca is kfVsfOSbJY0
 
@Gordon you've memorized it?
 
is that also your admin password?
 
xd
 
I leave that up to you imagination ;)
 
 
1 hour later…
11:30 AM
@cmb Maybe... 👍
 
12:17 PM
@NikiC Let me add GitLab to the mix :p might actually be faster then Appveyor for Windows build, but I never really tried
 
Hi @Gordon, long time now see.
I hope you are doing well
 
@Girgias Why is there not One CI Provider To Rule Them All
 
@NikiC Because Windows is a bitch?
 
PHP 9: deprecate Windows support
 
o/
 
12:36 PM
@NikiC you around ?
 
cmb
@Girgias I don't think Appveyor is slow (modulo queuing); actual build takes < 10min, and that builds almost everything; tests take > 20min, and they could be way faster, if not all exts would be loaded all the time.
 
@JoeWatkins yeah
 
@cmb Ah yes, I always seem to forget this >_>
 
why would EX(opline) have a different address when global regs are disabled ?
 
@cmb The queuing is really the problem there
 
12:37 PM
(and so does opline when USE_OPLINE)
 
@JoeWatkins different from what?
 
enabled/disabled global regs seems to effect where EX(opline) is in the handler, same for opline when using USE_OPLINE
I think I see my mistake
sorry, I guess needed to "say it out loud" ...
 
okay ^^
 
cmb
@NikiC I think Appveyor runs up to 2 jobs in parallel; if jobs would take less time, less queuing would happen.
 
12:53 PM
🦆
 
1:16 PM
@NikiC how on earth do I define a literal size_t for github.com/php/php-src/pull/6981 ? I'm probably missing something
 
@Girgias (size_t)
 
Well yeah but it doesn't build
I mean it does locally but not on CI
Which confuses me
 
LOLOL! This is about 3 months old but hilarious. Texas lawyer had a cat filter on during a Zoom call and did not know how to turn it off. He claims a child had turned it on. youtube.com/watch?v=j3M_Ki5U3TE
 
@Girgias Maybe it's used if #if?
 
Ahhh yeah indeed Opcache
 
1:20 PM
@Girgias Maybe you just want to add a u?
 
Okay that explains it
 
if you just want to fix signedness warnings
For which compiler do those appear?
 
Well it still needs to do a conversion afterwards, I'll look into the opache #if usage, and if I don't know how to fix that or it is ugly I'll just use u suffix
I enabled -Wsign-conversion with the CFLAGS on GCC just to see, and the main culprit is that one
Which generates around 100 000 lines of compiler logs
Not sure it is super worth to try to fix all of them, but I'm back in the mood for compiler warnings for some reason lol
 
1:37 PM
@StatikStasis you're only now just seeing this? :P it's pretty much a meme now
 
@cmb @NikiC does php have any speical plan with appveyor? they can theoretically add more parallel jobs for money. its sometihng Tideways could sponsor to some degree if that'd help
 
cmb
@beberlei thanks for the offer! I'm not sure if that would be reasonable for now. GH actions might be the better alternative in the long run, and we really should improve test execution speed. I have that on my TODO list.
 
@IMSoP touche :)
 
@JoeWatkins As it seems to be persistent problem in the partials patch, php-src aims at 100 columns, while you seem to be aiming at ... 30?
 
1:56 PM
~80, but I hear you, I'll fix it
 
2:28 PM
@Tiffany I know I've been behind on my video watching. Overloaded at work for a few months now. =/
 
2:52 PM
@cmb let me know if I can be of any help on that :-)
 
cmb
@FlávioHeleno are you used to building PHP on Windows?
wow, GH actions has PHP 8.0.6 ;)
 
@cmb not really, I do build it on macOS and Linux though (if it helps)
 
cmb
well, that's quite different :)
 
indeed, but I'm offering myself to help either way :)
 
Incident with GitHub Actions
 
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