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12:17 AM
... am I misunderstanding or is @DaveRandom quite specifically asking us to scam him?
 
thanks :-)
 
This has been a shitshow for ages. Companies that peer SMS connections really need to put a large amount of money in escrow, and then when they "accidentally" allow scammers to send scamming SMS, they forfeit that money.
As otherwise, some sales guy somewhere will allow a scammer to send a few hundred thousand scam SMS, so that he gets his commission.
 
see DMs
 
I made the mistake of working for a bulk sms provider once :-P I don't think I've seen nothing as shady as that
 
@Ekin I worked for a company that did both bulk and premium SMS....
@DaveRandom A not totally unrelated blog post: stephendiehl.com/blog/ransomware.html
 
1:25 AM
@Danack a not totally unrelated article zetter.substack.com/p/anatomy-of-one-of-the-first-darkside
 
why you no one-box?
s/industrial/industrial informational/
 
they did away with twatter oneboxes years ago
I was similarly distressed when I remembered this again myself the other day
tbf they were annoying
ditto wikipedia
it was literally like 4 years ago now or sth
 
well, good luck with your investigations....I'm going to stick with my own quixotic campaign:
 
@Danack yeah. I wonder. It's not like international banking system hasn't allowed the worse bandits of all times to steal entire populations over the last centuries.
 
yeh but as a person who undertands that threat you also have a moral responsibility to help everyone you know protect themselves against it. imho
(though not necessarily for free)
@FélixGagnon-Grenier i.e. please don't throw in the towel, statements such as this should be followed by "...but here is my plan" :-P
<3
 
1:43 AM
... but here is my plan, just hear me out: massively available locally hosted individual data sources many-to-manying communication directly through ipv6
monster bong rip
 
I'm more thinking just keeping shit up to date and helping educate people what scam text/email looks like while also dropping phat conez
 
that sounds good
 
(it's like I got this music in my mind sayin it's gonna be alright)
actually nn x
 
 
5 hours later…
6:31 AM
@Crell it's much prettier ... and I don't think there's anything left to complain about ... and all tests are passing (awaiting CI) ...
 
7:21 AM
crap uaf ...
 
7:42 AM
@CharlesSprayberry more like the opposite of prepare
 
uaf gone ... we look good ...
 
8:21 AM
ormings
 
8:40 AM
o/
 
8:57 AM
O/
 
I've got a full kubuntu setup running on my win10 wsl2 now... interesting times
 
9:15 AM
morns
 
9:37 AM
I actually crashed my computer
 
10:11 AM
@JoeWatkins o_O
 
10:34 AM
 
smoke and mirrors
 
They're still attempting to use Travis... travis-ci.org/github/ImageMagick/ImageMagick/builds
 
11:27 AM
@kelunik Ahh, I see. Yea, that makes sense to me.
 
11:43 AM
@CharlesSprayberry thinking more about it, the provider seems to be indeed the right place for types / autowiring information, it provides the value, so it's also the right one to decide how it should be available for autowiring
 
$x = @(5 / 0);
I used to use that in a test to make sure the error handler hasn't been broken. But that gives an exception on 8.1, and it appears that:
function manual_error() {
    trigger_error("Fake error", E_USER_ERROR);
}
isn't suppressed by the @. any ideas on a way to trigger a warning that is suppressed?
 
@kelunik Sounds logical to me
 
11:59 AM
@Danack $x = @file ('non_existent_file'); seems to do the needful.
 
12:10 PM
@JoeWatkins Yay. What was the net result on constructors? Someone on the list asked about that so I figure it's worth mentioning in the prose.
 
@Crell all supported, dtors behave normally
 
@JoeWatkins Yay!
 
I tried to rewrite the first bit (of rfc) to be more clear, I think we need to make a distinction between application and call site, and explain in clear words that the order of arguments is resolved as early as possible ... if you understand that, you don't expect this ability to reorder arguments in the way people seem to expect ...
feel free to revert it, it was just an attempt, I can't really think of the right words either ... words aren't my thing ...
 
I'll fiddle with it. There's one or two other things I want to fiddle with anyway.
 
oh and a ctor section, that needs some explaining ...
that last comment on internals about it, that's clearly wrong ... I think that's what people expect maybe ... so words all over that ...
 
12:26 PM
If I grok constructors correctly, $f = new Foo(?, ?, ?) ==> $f = fn($a, $b, $c) => new Foo($a, $b, $c); Viz, object is not actually built at all until all args are available, just like any other function. Da?
What is wrong about $objects = array_map(new ValueObject(?), $strings); ? It... seems like it would work, no?
 
Porquoi?
 
tld;dr/don't get it: count the number of "new" being executed ... $foo is a call to __construct, and it doesn't contain any "new" ... so there's only one object ...
 
Ahhh... so constructors do work, just with weirdness around $this that makes them unsuitable as a template. But that could still be done the old fashioned way with a short lambda.
 
or named ctor
 
12:37 PM
Gotcha.
 
it's weird in the same way as calling __construct directly on an object is ...
 
Side note: I'm reviewing rosettacode to see what other languages do for partials and... this implementation seems more robust than any other out there, period. :-)
 
cool
 
PDO discards error message text from prepared statement ・ PDO MySQL ・ #81037
 
> Partial function application is the process of fixing (or applying) only some of the arguments
I keep changing that bit, I think there's a few words you want to use consistently, and you might want to start with an explanation of what we're actually talking about ...
 
12:47 PM
Depends how formal we want to be in the RFC. They tend to be very inconsistent in that regard.
 
If you write fixing some of the arguments, someone on Reddit will ask if that means you're fixing the order of needle, haystack :P
also good morning all
 
For the layman, "it's an even-shorter-hand for a short lambda" is accurate enough and self-evident enough. But the language theorists would probably get cranky.
@MarkR Nah, named arguments already did that. :-)
For example, "and turns the call site into an application site." - 90% of the list has no idea what that means.
 
it should help people to understand that the process of performing a call (anywhere) is referred to as application - you apply parameters to the stack ... the process of partial application is therefore easy to understand as the application of less arguments than would be required for execution, and essentially delaying execution until further application occurs - either by partial or full application ...
I don't know what words you want to use to explain any of this, but that's what the words actually mean, and whatever words we use now/in docs, ought to be consistent with generally accepted terminology ...
 
So, you're firmly in the language theorist camp. :-) I don't think anyone has been confused about what we're doing until now.
 
"This fancy rock. Fancy rock fill in some parameters by itself so big brain ape only provide others"
 
12:52 PM
Ogg love fancy rock.
 
I'm conscious that we're introducing a new thing with words people haven't used before, and we're setting the standard for the use of those words, if we get hit by busses, whoever writes the docs would be using our words directly ...
 
@Crell possibly of use - raganwald.com/2013/01/05/… at least at explaining some words.
 
the variance and traits ・ Documentation problem ・ #81038
 
I don't know how to words for humans in general, my attempt to break it down into application and call site was an attempt to simplify it, that clearly doesn't work ... but there isn't really a distinction, they are all application sites ... that's what a call site is ... so I thought I'd give you the actual explanation of why this is even got the word "application" in it, which people understand to mean something totally different and nothing like "call" ...
do whatever is best ...
 
I am going to split it into a casual-friendly intro and then an academic description that uses the big words. That should handle both audiences.
 
12:59 PM
we don't necessarily need that long description, so long as the PHP friendly one wouldn't be confusing for someone reading it with an academic understanding of the words we're using ...
afk a while, school run
 
Morning
 
@Jeeves people sullying my variance example with traits, ewwww /s
 
so I figured I'd profile a migration that takes longer than is ideal, to see if I can find the slow spots and get it to run faster so there's less downtime for prod when it's deployed... so far the Xdebug profile output file is 40GB.
this isn't gonna be fun to open is it.
 
a db migration?
 
Presumably the migration is the same thing repeated a zillion times. For profiling, limit "zillion" to something like 4. :-)
 
1:09 PM
@Danack yes, but not just sql. for those we just actual sql and there's no php involved (im not a masochist).
@crell it's doing variations of similar things, about 1K times, yes.
actually take out the 'just' this isn't any sql in the sense of migrating by changing columns. it's reading/writing values
 
tbh, I'd be more tempted just to add some output saying "processing foo table, 400 / 5000" and maybe with some timestamps....that'd probably be a useful thing anyway, so that if there's ever a problem it can be debugged, and people running the migration can make sure it hasn't hung...
 
@cmb One of the Firebird tests needs to be skip under ASAN still
ext/pdo_firebird/tests/payload_test.phpt
 
cmb
@Girgias all wil need to be run without LSan; I'll merge github.com/php/php-src/pull/6966 later today
 
> pdo_firebird
wasn't that gotten rid of?
 
Nope
@cmb ACK
I thought you had already merged it that's why ^^'
 
cmb
1:20 PM
@Danack very unfortunately not
 
I've never heard of the "firebird database." New?
 
Anyone game to join me in the Javascript room?
 
@StatikStasis ooooooold
 
Was it not popular? Never heard of it... =/
 
@StatikStasis Firebase is the new one, Firebird is based on something from IBM IIRC
 
1:23 PM
ah ok
 
cmb
it has been called interbase
 
@StatikStasis asdadosidoaih LOLOLOLOLOL.
 
Would you like to play a game?
lol
Reference to one of my favorite movies
War Games
Its how I feel with a JS Issue
 
Cool story bro
 
Anyone near Gainesville Florida?
 
1:32 PM
@LeviMorrison @JoeWatkins https://wiki.php.net/rfc/partial_function_application

I updated the intro, and added 3 sections: Argument evaluation order, constructors, and comparison with other languages. Waiting on your green light to post to the list.
 
20 hours ago, by Danack
Also, although you obviously have passion for your project, you should probably think about hiring a designer, who understands how to make frontend stuff look good. Not saying that will actually make your product be sucessful, just saying that I think it probably won't succeed without that.
@Stuart and this still isn't a JS room.
 
Stung me again
 
It's not a competition
 
just for coming and trying to engage in meaningful intelligent discussion
I WILL Succeed Thank You very much
 
Then please, do it somewhere else
If you need immediate help, hire a consultant. We're not a 24/7 unpaid support.
 
1:36 PM
@Crell sprintf("%s: %s\n", $who, $msg); > printf
and ctors section is malformed
 
vigorously claps
 
Oops, you're right.
TIL: Docuwiki doesn't support inline code that begins with __.
 
> the most robust and powerful and robust partial application syntax
and also did we mention the robustness, it's very robust ...
perhaps the most robust
 
@Tiffany Ive offered compensation thank you very much
but have been politely asked to not
 
Morngindsss
 
1:42 PM
and have respectfully obliged
 
yohaaa
 
Almost friday! \o/
 
looks like your MO is to just start shit
Im outta here
 
\o/
 
@salathe \o
 
cmb
1:44 PM
@Crell try ''__foo''
 
All I was doing was trying to engage in polite, meaningful, intelligent discussion
 
You did not
 
@salathe \o/ He's still alive!
 
@JoeWatkins I should mention that it's robust.
 
@Crell Reading.
 
1:45 PM
@PeeHaa \o/
 
@Crell try and squeeze it in somewhere, although it may be too robust for squeezing ...
it reads okay to me, but levi is better at words ... go with what he says ...
 
> While constructors are supported in partial application, the behavior of $this is significant. Specifically, the Closure created by the partial application will already have a $this created, but the constructor has not yet been invoked. That means calling the same partially applied constructor multiple times will not create a new object each time but rerun the constructor on the same object multiple times.
This seems particularly undesirable.
 
I'mma just describing what Joe says happens. :-)
 
If I wanted to do that, then I would apply __construct.
 
that is what you are doing
new Thing(/* constructor arguments */)
 
1:53 PM
Indirectly, sure.
Hmm.
In userland, unless you resort to reflection you cannot create an object without invoking the constructor. It seems like we should include the new as part of what is bound. Has Nikita chimed in on this part yet?
Last I checked there were only noticed a tests that were too simple to differentiate between them.
 
you can't get the object until you call the constructor, but it is the constructor you're calling, not new ... that's expected ... because
new Thing(/* constructor arguments */)
 
@Danack it has output to show what it's 'currently' doing. I'm just trying to make it faster, because production will be down for the duration of the process.
the profile-enabled run finally finished (took 34mins vs the normal ~6mins without profiling) and produced a 53GB cache grind file. God damn.
 
@NikiC What do you think about the constructor behavior? Discussion starts here.
 
probably should check it was supported before saying it is in public ...
when I asked what the reason was to even support constructors, I got "because it's cool" ... this is how constructors work, multiple invocations don't result in new objects, and there doesn't seem to be a compelling reason that we should change that ...
 
If it results in dodgy behaviour just forbid it for the time being would be my recommendation
 
2:09 PM
it doesn't really, it results in the same behaviour you have today ... I'm not sure why it's useful still ... I'd be happier to remove support for constructors than invent magical constructors ...
 
@JoeWatkins It did support it, as far as I could tell.
__construct and new go together -- I don't think it's magical. Let's see what others like Nikita think.
 
I don't know why you'd think that invoking a constructor multiple times will create multiple objects ...
 
(new Thing)($foo, $bar) is different from new Thing($foo, $bar). We can't separate them, unless we use reflection.
I don't see why we'd rather forbid it that making it work along with new.
(Happy to hear technical reasons)
 
(new Thing)($foo, $bar)
describes any new, that is what happens, from left to right, in that order, and grouping ... new Thing is created first, and then constructor called with (foo, bar) ...
anyone familiar with reflection on constructors is not going to be surprised by this, it's totally expected ...
 
You just described 0.001% of people. Everyone else, not so much. Which is why it can be a surprise that __construct is callable at all
 
2:14 PM
they are the same 0.001% of people that are even going to use this on constructors ...
 
What happens now is completely logical if you know how the engine works, but admittedly unexpected if you're just used to writing code and moving on. That's the concern.
 
@JoeWatkins huh? Isn't that calling invoke?
 
(new Thing)->__construct($foo, $bar) whiuch itself isn't the full picture as construct doesn't return
 
Ah missed the ctor part of the messages :)
 
@PeeHaa I assumed that as well
 
2:17 PM
@LeviMorrison Yeah, I don't think that behavior makes sense
It would be better to drop support than have that behavior
I know why it would work that way on a technical level, but it doesn't really make sense semantically
 
I'd rather drop it than invent something that still no-one gave me a good reason for existence ... if we drop it and you find some usecase, it's not so hard to use other syntax to do the same thing, and we don't have to formally invent constructors that do magic things
 
If this is supported, it should work more like doing partial application on ReflectionClass::newInstance
@JoeWatkins The ML example was $objects = array_map(new ValueObject(?), $strings);
That wouldn't do anything useful if you just invoked a constructor on the same object multiple times
 
@LeviMorrison Technically incorrect, you can also use PDO :p
 
yeah, but from my perspective it's just a misunderstanding of how constructors work
 
@PeeHaa Yes, that would call the constructor without arguments and then call invoke.
 
2:22 PM
@NikiC if you were writing the thing, would it be supported ?
 
are there any sorts of changes (in the form of conditional feature flags in files, or on classes) that developers could add that would allow more optimal execution strategies to be taken in the engine?
 
2:40 PM
Please create tag for version 2.1.0 ・ xdiff ・ #81039
 
@JoeWatkins Special case a constructor and wrap it in another function that creates the object and invokes the constructor?
 
I see how to do it
krakjoe@Fiji:/opt/src/php-src$ cat test.php
<?php
class Foo {
    public function __construct() {

    }
}

$foo = new Foo(?);

var_dump($one = $foo());
var_dump($two = $foo());
?>
krakjoe@Fiji:/opt/src/php-src$ sapi/cli/php test.php
object(Foo)#3 (0) {
}
object(Foo)#4 (0) {
}
like that ...
 
You made constructors work?
 
@JoeWatkins @NikiC In zend_compile_new we would need to walk the ast a bit to see if it's a partial, and if it is then emit a different sequence of opcodes. I'm not sure exactly what that sequence would be; was trying to see opcodes on 3v4l but can't.
But presumably it would look something like:
 
@LeviMorrison I done it already ... but awaiting convincing arguments
 
2:47 PM
Oh, okay.
 
I'm happy to commit it, but I'd also be happy to remove support ...
 
All else equal, I'd rather constructors work with partials.
 
// Any reason you don't find this compelling?
$objects = array_map(new ValueObject(?), $strings);
 
As of PHP 5.6 with variadics, is there any reason to use ReflectionClass::newInstanceArgs over new $class(...$args)?
 
Not that I've run into.
 
2:50 PM
@LeviMorrison to exactly the same degree as the statement "because it's cool" ... but in my head I'm struggling to ignore that we're inventing new behaviour for constructors when called in a particular way
 
It's analogous to changing what we did to function calls, yes?
 
@JoeWatkins I'd view it as fn(...$args) => new ValueObject(...$args), not a partial of the constructor, even if it technically is.
 
Agreed, was typing this exact example.
 
Right. What is sensible and expected here is exactly the opposite if you approach it from an engine POV or a user POV.
 
3:08 PM
Does $partial = (new InvokableObject)(?) work?
 
@Trowski That should invoke the same object again and again, right?
 
@kelunik Right. More generally I should ask if (expression)(?) is supported, such as $callable(?).
 
3:25 PM
I presume that will evaluate expression, then assuming it's a callable, it will partially apply that. I know that $callable(?) already works.
 
@Trowski I'm not seeing a specific test for it, but 3v4l looks fine: 3v4l.org/IJCm1/rfc#rfc.partials
 
Neat. How quickly does 3v4l update after the branch is updated?
 
@JoeWatkins @LeviMorrison @NikiC So what are we doing here? Do we go with Joe's new-and-improved constructor support, caveat "it's a bit weird from the inside"? Or do we drop constructors entirely and let it be weird from the outside?

My vote is to include constructor support, as it's the expected behavior from user-space.
 
code
 
/me doesn't know what that means.
 
3:40 PM
Define "weird". Aren't all partials just syntactic sugar over closures? Why would wrapping a call to new Class(?) be so different?
 
If it makes sense from user-space, don't worry about any special casing on the "inside."
There's a lot of that.
 
okay done
 
@Sara Per Joe, *technically* it's a 2 step process: create object, call constructor. The naive implementation put the partial application between those two steps, so the object was created once, then potentially the constructor called multiple times. Joe was uncomfortable with that. The possible solutions are:

1) Special case constructors so they work "as you'd expect". (Creating the object also happens inside the partial.)
2) Special case constructors to not be partial-able to avoid confusion.
 
krakjoe@Fiji:/opt/src/php-src$ cat test.php
<?php
class ValueObject {
    public function __construct(private string $word) {}
}

var_dump(array_map(
    new ValueObject(?), ["Hello", "World"]));
?>
krakjoe@Fiji:/opt/src/php-src$ sapi/cli/php test.php
array(2) {
  [0]=>
  object(ValueObject)#1 (1) {
    ["word":"ValueObject":private]=>
    string(5) "Hello"
  }
  [1]=>
  object(ValueObject)#3 (1) {
    ["word":"ValueObject":private]=>
    string(5) "World"
  }
}
@Crell it's done already, do words for humans while I smoke a joint and rest, until you come up with some other magic thing we need ...
 
Oh. OK, well, that solves that then... Do we need new tests, too?
 
3:48 PM
I updated the test to assert that it works as we expect, but there' s no obvious ^^ that sort of case in there
 
Is that a yes or no for me writing more tests... :-)
 
well it depends how hard you look, at glance it's not covered, but it is covered ...
Rocking Foo::__construct [1, 2]
object(Foo)#%d (0) {
}
Rocking Foo::__construct [3, 4]
object(Foo)#%d (0) {
}
bool(true)
that (true)
 
Does anyone know if PHP closes stderr for some reason in its shutdown process? My writes to stderr start returning -1....
 
in extension code or userland ?
oh god, I can't read streams ... it's impossible to find out
I don't think that it does, on the basis of code I've written in the past which assumes it doesn't and works
(extension wise)
and I've no idea about userland, and I'll never know ...
 
@LeviMorrison Because it closes all resources, yes.
 
3:58 PM
oh I guess what might happen in an extension depends on if you have that stream open in userland too ... although I can't find that out either ...
 
@kelunik But stderr should live as long as the process -- I can't log errors in shutdown, I guess?
Why would it close it arbitrarily?
 
Oh blah. That latest pull doesn't compile for me. Do I need a full rebuild?
 
what's error ?
I mean, yes, do a clean build ... whenever you wonder if a clean build will help, it likely will ... just don't get stuck in a loop ...
 
@LeviMorrison I had github.com/amphp/log/issues/3 in mind, but that's probably caused by __destruct being invoked, not the stream closing, sorry.
 
@Crell "...so the object was created once..." WhhhaaaaA? No. Please not that. That's terrible. Why would you do that.
 
4:05 PM
@Sara It looks like we won't need to do that, crisis averted. :-)
 
Phew.
Good. 'cause I must be missing why that would ever be the approach to take.
 
I'll just dup stderr and use the dup.
 
Unrelated:
$a = foo(bar(), ?);
$a(1);
$a(2);
Is bar() invoked once, or twice here?
Or is this disallowed>?
((ftr; my expectation would be that bar() is invoked once))
 
@Sara Once.
 
Cool. Thanks.
 
4:10 PM
<?php
class Foo {
    public function __construct() {
        printf("%s\n", __METHOD__);
    }
}

$foo = new Foo();

$closure = Closure::fromCallable([$foo, "__construct"]);

var_dump(new ReflectionFunction($closure));  # This looks same as B

var_dump($closure(), # But the behaviour is not
         $closure());

$partial = new Foo(?);

var_dump(new ReflectionFunction($partial)); # B

var_dump($partial(), # This is surprising in my view
         $partial());
?>
you don't get to invent magic and there be no consequences, this is really really strange, and eventually someone will notice and say "why didn't you omit support for construct"
the initial support was consistent with how the engine works today, I don't like magic so didn't take it further, and nobody provided a good reason to do so ... the only reason we have now seems to be "yeah but it's cool" ...
 
@Sara There's a section in the RFC now explaining that, and how it compares to arrow functions. Your expectation is correct.
@JoeWatkins "So that you can create an arbitrary object within an array_map() operation or similar" seems a slightly more compelling argument than "but it's cool."
 
to me it looks like an example of the kind of cool already mentioned ... no more compelling a reason to change how something works than "it would be cool" ...
 
If people are really desperate to use it for new, they'll use a short closure and be explicit about it
 
we're very specifically not creating something here, creating something can be justified by coolness ... changing something needs more justification than it being cool
am I making sense ?
 
What's the difference between PHP's pass-by-reference and userland & sign?
 
4:19 PM
Something being confusing and obscure is usually a pretty good reason IMO.
 
FWIW; We can exclude new Foo(?) for now and think more about it later. Nothing stops us from adding support at a later date, but we can get face-fucked by doing it wrong then having to live with it.
 
@MarkR the conversation is probably misleading ... it looks like we're discussing if we're going to do a thing, but I already done it ... I'm trying to explain why I didn't do it by default ...
 
I just updated the RFC to say Joe did it.
 
@JoeWatkins Any change of a different name through reflection there?
 
chance?
 
4:24 PM
Yes, chance
 
not really, that's the functions name ...
 
I am looking for the difference in this script 3v4l.org/T3M2Z
Why does it work differently?
 
Could you fake the name to be "new Foo" or other instead?
 
on the flip side nobody is writing code like that and expecting to do anything useful ... there's a proper ctor api for reflection ...
 
True, no one is making a closure from __construct.
 
4:26 PM
yeah, nevertheless it looks odd to me ...
we can add some reflection to tell them apart later ...
 
It does…
Perhaps {closure} for the name would be fine for now?
Eh, that probably messes up backtraces.
It would have to be specifically handled in reflection, not changed in the frame.
 
I hesitate to change names, especially to meaningless ones, reflection is less useful if you start changing names of stuff ...
 
Right, (new Foo) would be more meaningful, but weird.
 
Native pass-by-ref in mysqli_stmt::bind_param leaks reference ・ Unknown/Other Function ・ #81040
 
@Trowski getName is no longer a valid class name on a ReflectionClass is odd ...
 
4:32 PM
@JoeWatkins Where does ReflectionClass come in?
 
ah actually it maybe won't easily because getClosureScopeClass shouldn't allow it too ... still there would exist a class entry with a non-valid name ...
oh anyway, we can't change it's name, maybe immutable
we can have ReflectionFunction::isPartial ... that seems quite reasonable ...
but I would say the reflection api should be hashed out by the people who are going to use it, probably after ... that it works with reflection seems enough to move forward ...
 
Can I post the updated RFC to the list yet? :-)
 
4:47 PM
@Derick has something changed about xdebug remote triggering profiler (since I last asked you about it, which was related to v3 changes)?
Regular step debugging triggers fine, both cli and web. Profiling via export XDEBUG_PROFILE='true' in cli works fine, but no combination of config/request parameters seem to trigger profiling for web requests
this is on v3.0.3
 
@Crell sure
 
Jul 3 '19 at 18:31, by Danack
Sep 13 '17 at 9:56, by Danack
@Wes Or just remove constructors.........
can we deprecate them yet?
 
cmb
@Stephen are you hitting bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=81013?
 
@cmb I dont think so, I'm not relying on a shell environment var for the fpm instance
 
@JoeWatkins That does seem quite reasonable.
Then you can differentiate between the two if needed (it won't be).
 
4:55 PM
@JoeWatkins They aren't exactly equivalent -- new Foo(...) is not the same as Foo::__construct, which cannot be called statically like that.
This is my point: we can't generally separate creating the object from initializing it (in userland).
Arguably Foo::__construct(...) should have worked like new Foo(...).
 
Not sure I agree. One could argue calling construct like that should be an error outside of parent::__construct.
 
Right -- and this calling of parent constructor is the only legitimate reason for separating initialization from creating of the object based on the rest of PHP's semantics.
You can still partial __construct if you want that semantic, but I don't think it's what people want when they write new Obj(?).
 
Obviously not. I imagine $partial = Foo::__construct(?) will "work," but in the same way that Closure::fromCallable(['Foo', '__construct']) behaves.
I'm fine with that. It's consistently useless :)
That probably complicates reflection. Perhaps a method on ReflectionFunction such as createsObject(): bool?
Naming is probably bad…
 
5:13 PM
@Trowski Why does this complicate reflection?
 
@LeviMorrison I was expecting this to work: 3v4l.org/PFffp/rfc#output
Because it doesn't work, ReflectionFunction::isPartial() is probably enough. However, that example should error in some way.
/cc @JoeWatkins ^
 
Why doesn't it work?
 
yeah I think we'll make magic compile error, there's no good reason for it to work ...
@LeviMorrison I broke it making the magic constructor support
 
@JoeWatkins Yeah, forbidding that is fine and makes reflection easy.
 
I'm not sure it's fine. I need to understand why first.
 
5:21 PM
@JoeWatkins Any magic method would be a compile time error?
 
can anyone think of a reason we should allow any magic methods "__serialize" and so on ? at least __construct and __destruct should be disallowed, but what about others ?
 
Not off hand.
 
@Trowski I think so, we avoid a bunch of strangeness before it gets out into the wild that way
reduces available edges for strangeness ...
 
I can't think of any valid reason to allow it. Avoid the potential weirdness.
 
ftr I still thing the ctor thing is a ridiculous thing to do
 
5:26 PM
@LeviMorrison $partial = $foo->__construct(?) is returning a zval that is IS_UNDEF. I was expecting the equivalent of Closure::fromCallable([$foo, '__construct']).
 
I can imagine partial application of __set() being desired by someone at some point but also it would still be silly
 
Just forbid it to start. If there's a sane reason and way to support it later it can be added.
 
yeah I'll have a think about how to do that, brain hurts so I'm out for today, lata all
 
@DaveRandom You no like $partial = new Foo(?);?
 
no.
sorry, I just don't, use a proxy :-P
 
5:29 PM
@LeviMorrison doesn't work because we change location of return value based on ZEND_ACC_CTOR, which is set for __construct and __cosntruct via new, we handle the latter now ...
I really am out, lata
 
o/
@DaveRandom That's fine. Maybe the RFC could have a secondary vote on if this should be allowed? @Crell
I don't view support for that as a requirement at all.
 
yeh I'm struggling to explain why I don't like it tho so I'm now wondering if I am wrong
 
Do we have a printf format specifier for zend_ulong?
Ignore me... it is ZEND_ULONG_FMT
 
@LeviMorrison question regarding covariance/contravariance rules, is it ever intended for traits to be used within a class where contravariance is used? (Context: bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=81038, wondering if/how I should revise docs)
I haven't spent time to wrap my head around how it works, trying to keep a migraine from returning
 
I think it might be an implementation bug -- I am not sure. I would need to check with Nikita.
The bug, if there is one, is that verification of the variance should happen after all of those consecutive declarations.
cc @NikiC
Somehow adding a trait breaks it. Meaning if you take out the trait bits it works.
 
cmb
5:40 PM
isn't this just an order-of-declaration-matters issue : 3v4l.org/RsDcu
 
Not exactly. By keeping the same order but without traits it works.
 
@Trowski I think I maybe conflated it with a convo about ctors in interfaces the other day, and actually I now rescind that objection :-P
 
@Trowski Wait, if what's allowed? What are we still talking about?
 
@Crell partial application of constructors
which I objected to (but have since changed my mind)
 
5:59 PM
I thought we already concluded and implemented yes, we'll do it, kthxbye?
 
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