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2:05 AM
Incident with API Requests
Incident with API Requests ・ API Requests has Partial Outage
 
My websocket showing webscoket opening timeout handshake error. How could i fix it?
 
 
1 hour later…
3:28 AM
> IJG asserts what is: that each man, woman, and child has unalienable value
and rights granted and deposited in them by the Creator and not any one of
the people is subordinate to any artificial principality, corporate fiction
or the special interest of another without their appropriate knowing,
willing and intentional consent made by contract or accommodation agreement.
IJG expresses that which already was.
The people have already determined and demanded that public administration
entities, national governments, and their supporting judicial systems must
Although I hope that the "how can open source maintainers earn enough to not regret working on open source" problem will be resolved one day, it's almost certain that the amount of inter-project shit-talking will increase.
 
 
1 hour later…
4:46 AM
o/
 
5:02 AM
\o
 
5:34 AM
All issues have been resolved!
 
 
2 hours later…
7:19 AM
Hey, sorry for just dropping in to ask a question but I'm unsure why this code isn't working
//$_GET['page'] = this-book-page
$source = $_GET['page'];
preg_match('/before-(.*?)-after/', $source, $match);
echo $match[1];
 
7:37 AM
on downside of github for php-src issues is that this will also include a large number of help and support questions that are not bugs and will still require attention. a bug tracker hidden away in the internet guards against this kind of spam
 
^If someone wants to move my last comment to trash that's fine with me. I figured it out, it was an oversight on my part. Sorry.
 
Counter-argument: It'll be much easier for volunteers to help answer those questions (and contribute to issue tracking in general). Also, a template or sticky can be used to help herd those types of issues to more appropriate resources.
(Related: The lack of a login account option for non-php.net users on the existing tracker is a pain and IMO probably deters volunteers from contributing more)
 
7:58 AM
volunteers can't and shouldn't be allowed to close the issues
 
it seems an issue template is a must
that's a problem, and I don't know that issue templates or stickies or anything other than time will solve it ...
but I'm pretty sure time will solve it ... I've got nothing to base it on, but it seems likely we will get that sort of issue being opened at first, but as time goes on and people learn, the problem ought to disappear ...
it's not like we never get bug reports being opened because someone misunderstood something, it's not much different to NAB today ... and if there were more NAB reports after a year or whatever, I'd be surprised
 
8:21 AM
@NikiC the assumption that you can enter that function in any state is the actual problem imo, even if you squish those tables into one, you still should not perform lookups while the executor is not active
 
@JoeWatkins Generally speaking, sure, but in this case, I don't see why it should not be possible
Effectively, this is saying that internal classes cannot make use of class variance
 
I see delays happening
 
@JoeWatkins They should result in a fatal error lateron, no?
 
do I miss something ? I've never looked close at variance stuff, don't have much of a clue
none raised by current tests, should I test something in particular in zend_test ?
 
@JoeWatkins You'll want to test something like gist.github.com/nikic/ec2a14becd58ac769330533e766dfe73
Ugh our compiler_globals/executor_globals initialization is such a mess
 
8:36 AM
agree, and I ended up in phpdbg when I tried to do it the simple way btw ... not a place you want to end up ...
that's also a mess
 
It seems like NTS and ZTS initialization paths are pretty much completely disjoint :/
 
right ?
wait ...
something rather strange happened, looking ...
 
8:59 AM
oh it's zend_test magic
it's fine
@NikiC added a (sensible, not that crap I wrote a minute ago) test for that, it appears to be fine ...
 
@JoeWatkins How can that test work if the method doesn't return a string?
 
zend_test magic is doing bad stuff
we end up here
static ZEND_FUNCTION(zend_test_func)
{
	RETVAL_STR_COPY(EX(func)->common.function_name);

	/* Cleanup trampoline */
	ZEND_ASSERT(EX(func)->common.fn_flags & ZEND_ACC_CALL_VIA_TRAMPOLINE);
	zend_string_release(EX(func)->common.function_name);
	zend_free_trampoline(EX(func));
	EX(func) = NULL;
}
I guess I should fix it so it makes sense, but that's expected (because of get_method), right ?
 
@JoeWatkins uff I think you'll want to restrict that get_method handler to a specific method, just like get_static_method. This is super confusing
 
agree, I didn't think for long enough, sorry ... I thought there might be some reason it worked that way and didn't question it ...
 
@JoeWatkins Okay, I see why it "works": Internal classes registration calls zend_do_inheritance_ex directly, so we never try to handle delayed variance obligations
So I think you need to throw a fatal error directly when lookup_class is called with register_unresolved and !EG(active)
Otherwise you just end up with unverified inheritance
 
9:16 AM
okay, got an idea for a test for that ?
 
@JoeWatkins Anything with two unrelated class return types. Would be annoying to test though, as it would cause a startup error, so you'd have to put it behind an ini setting
 
you don't really want me to add an ini setting, you're really telling me to omit the test, aren't you ?
 
@JoeWatkins yes :D
You can do manual testing by temporarily changing the stub to something wrong and making sure you see an error
 
that raises an error trying to register Exception ... so ... not that ...
guess we need to handle obligations somewhere ...
I don't see where we are adding the obligation, just the delayed load ?
/me awaits input
 
9:43 AM
@JoeWatkins Don't think we really can. Or if we can it's not worthwhile
@JoeWatkins It will be added based on the UNRESOLVED inheritance result
So, just to be clear on what I expect to happen:
1. If we have unresolved classes, we should simply error. Unresolved classes generally need autoloading, and that just doesn't make sense during early startup
2. During startup, we can either say that all classes are unresolved (what you did), effectively not supporting non-trivial variance for internal classes. Or we can add a basic lookup from CG(class_table), to make cases like the one you added in zend_test work. In that case only cases where the involved classes are declared after the current one are not supported.
 
gotcha, better now ?
loaded, registered, or declared ? or a better words maybe ?
 
@JoeWatkins yeah, this looks reasonable to me
@JoeWatkins registered would make sense in this context
 
k, I'll cleanup, thanks for help
 
10:07 AM
we're getting rather a lot of pushback on bugsnet ...
<rant>
it should be against the law to volunteer the time of other people ... you can't say "can't we just do this really easy test" ... you can say "I've done this test and here are the results", but don't predicate approval on the expenditure of someone else's time ...
you also shouldn't be allowed to suggest that we use X, unless you are personally going to pay for it and maintain it
</rant>
 
10:34 AM
hahaha
 
10:44 AM
He scuba dives, so maybe he found 6 .... deep in the mariana trench
who knows
What's up people
 
I'm probably going in the wrong direction... but if a framework was to provide a value-object, holding some HTML or SQL that it created/trusted, and only the framework was allowed to construct that object, would this be an acceptable check:

public function __construct($trusted_value) {
if (!str_starts_with(debug_backtrace(DEBUG_BACKTRACE_IGNORE_ARGS, 1)[0]['file'], FRAMEWORK_ROOT)) {
}
// ...
}
 
Sounds like stuff that should be checked in {main} rather that in a class @CraigFrancis
 
main?
 
PHP 6 {main} you know
in an alternate reality
I kid, index.php
your bootstrap file
 
ahh, yeah
 
10:46 AM
Also random constants inside classes are not a good idea, pass the value
 
how so?
 
Think of classes as accessories which can be used anywhere, but using said constants you are hard couppling the class
 
the constant is just to represent the root path of the framework... the projects using the framework would be outside of that path
 
pass the value
A great practice is to create composer packages and see them interact with each other
 
pass in the path to the framwork?
 
10:48 AM
Yes or if you know that this is going to be on a certain location you could make use of DIR
``` __DIR ```
damn
 
np, I got it
 
.....Ok this crap won't let me type double lower dashes xD
 
I'm just not sure how that would work
 
For my stuff I always think in separate libraries
It has worked great so far because someone can just reuse one piece of my code, and not the whole thing
and it has also led me to greater separation of concerns
stuff I couldn't see when I had everything in one place
 
Ok, so lets say your library creates a nice API that returns a value-object (something that can be sent back to you, and you can still trust)... how do you stop the un-washed masses also creating that value-object?
 
10:52 AM
Depends on what the masses send as input, an API in the most typical scenario would return JSON or XML or <insert format>
I would also think that my api has an authentication mechanism, which is not required, it's a plugin that I can inject into it
 
maybe your library is an SQL query builder, and you want to return the SQL in a value-object, so they can pass it back to you again later?
 
Ah so you are going the graphql kind of way
?
 
or it could be a HTML snippet, or something else... it's trying to make the value-object that only your library can create.
I'm not too familiar with graphql, but I think so.
 
Well that comes with great responsability on input filtering, personally I would use json schemas + an intermediate class which maps said schema to a valid query for the SQL case
I'm trying to think what you are trying to avoid here, if you explain more maybe I could give more input :D
But usually on an API level, each user has a unique token assigned to her/him
 
I'm more thinking about a general solution for now... but in one case I have a basic HTML templating system (it just handles small snippets of HTML, and allows user-values to be added to it), it needs to return the HTML but be marked in such a way to say "this can be trusted, I have put it in this immutable value-object, that only I can create"... then other parts of the system knows it can be trusted.
 
10:58 AM
So, security token
the response should include it
Similar to a CSRF token
 
Erm, I'm not thinking about a HTTP API, but simply the API that's provided by an PHP object, framework, library, etc.
 
Same case, sign it with something that you know it's trusted
the transport / context doesn't matter, it's the pattern to implement "to trust something"
Use a strong hashing mechanism and check for the hash
Perhaps you could use the object hash ?
 
well, the object is only taking in a small string, so that could be hashed quite easily, but the library would then need to store and manage the secret, and make sure the programmer using that library doesn't mis-use it... which seems a little complicated
 
I think the approach itself or what you are trying to do is complex, so things will be complex, only natural
 
Well, that's why I wondered if I could use debug_backtrace() just to see who has called the objects __construct() method.
 
11:04 AM
@CraigFrancis you can't really currently. You'd need something like classes private to a package, which I have some horribly scribbled words about: github.com/Danack/Packidge/blob/master/…
 
I'm not telling you not to do it, just to be clear
 
@Danack thanks, just reading
 
I could see some kind of collection of objects, an object manager, perhaps some kind of container
 
But even then, I'm not sure if it's actually a technical problem for you to solve, or if it's actually the problem of the people who use your library.
 
@ln-s yep, I'm partially just thinking out loud (not trying to avoid proper work, honest).
 
11:05 AM
Depends on how much friendliness he wants to add
The friendlier the better in my opinion
Many will disagree and that's fine
 
e.g. similar to the restricted api mentioned in Christope Kern's talk - where use of HtmlString::createFromRaw() needs to have a signoff from a senior person in the project.
 
@CraigFrancis Im all for brain storming
 
I'm going on the basis that the programmers using the library just want things to work, so they could use something they probably shouldn't just to get things working.
 
not sure if you saw, but I updated esprintf (which renaming) to use separate types: github.com/Danack/esprintf/blob/separate_types/example.php so they can be passed around safely.
 
@CraigFrancis I just see some kind of object supervisor in which I can fetch instances from it, similar to a dependency injection container
For what you have told so far
a repository like pattern if you will in which you can observe changes if that is what you want
 
11:09 AM
Apr 28 at 20:22, by Danack
@ln-s to be fair, OO is shit.
Or just use a function.
 
Dude at this point it feels offensive really
let me be with OO
 
@Danack With your package suggestion; the idea of a private class in a package would be useful in this case... and at least confirms my suspicions that at least it can't be done easily today.
@Danack The esprintf() update looks interesting, and I think the types are kinda where I'm going with my procrastination this morning.
 
@CraigFrancis btw......don't look at the url_escape type...... after moving to the separate types, I went to actually read what the underlying laminas escaper is doing and it's pretty insane.
 
@ln-s Not sure yet... so you think the library could keep a central repository of all the value-objects it knows it has created correctly... might be complicated to go that route, as that could be a big list... that's not to say that using debug_backtrace(), while simple, won't have a bit of a performance impact.
 
aka the most confusing way possible of handling URLs.
 
11:16 AM
@RemiCollet arghhhh
can you force push 7.2.0 back a commit, I messed up and merged into it
 
@CraigFrancis Could take ideas from ORNO DIC, or the Symfony DIC, not saying you should use them if you don't want to, but the general idea out of them
What you are trying to do, sounds like a container which has some observer logic into it, watches if the object is valid / was created and is safe
 
ah I fixed it, panic over ... sorry, old pr ...
 
@Danack Erm, yeah, that's complicated... I gave up with that, and have a URL object that takes in a literal for the path (or full hostname), and an optional array for the query string, something like... $mine = new url('/path/to/file/', ['id' => $id])
 
Hi Joe o/
 
@ln-s Cool, thanks, I'll go have a look.
 
11:23 AM
@ln-s to be fair, I try to be fairly consistent on my views in particular:
Mar 27 '20 at 13:52, by Danack
I have a strong suspicion that the things most people say are good about OO are wrong, and that IDE autocomplete is the main benefit...
 
Your opinions are absolutely fine, but let's suppose you like to eat broccoli, and each time you mention you are eating broccoli I jump in and say "Broccoli is shit"
It's just not nice, hope you can understand
 
@AllenJB have you actually seen that happen on any project like PHP? In particular where there internal details of it are beyond the grasp of most end-users. My experience is that it doesn't happen, and is one of the things that has left me dissapointed with Imagick. More users have used the ability to comment to insult other users than have helped each other.
 
You might be right, I like some bits, but sometimes OO can be used to over-complicate things... and I worry that there are some programmers out there who like that, as it makes them think they are being clever.
 
I will agree to that
As I also have been on those trenches with people exactly like the people you describe @CraigFrancis
If you don't follow the KIS principle any approach will fall
But I will also say it's a matter of design, not of the technology applied
 
All I know is that all approaches I take are wrong in one way or another.
 
11:28 AM
That's why I told you to separate into libraries :) tackle the problem in small bits
 
I don't think having the bug tracker be hard to find is the big difference.....the difference is that bugs.php.net _feels_ like it belongs to the PHP project, and so people show a little bit of deference in their behaviour.
Github makes people feel at home, so they comment freely without thinking that maybe they should behave as if they are a guest.
 
Yeah, I've got some pretty old code bases that work pretty well, and I'm not sure it will justify the time to re-write everything into many different libraries :-)
 
@CraigFrancis all code is wrong....but some is useful.
 
@Danack Yep, and that's all I can hope for... back in ~1 hour.
 
11:46 AM
\ornming
 
heya Ekin
 
Good yawnings everyone o/
 
12:14 PM
😴
 
@Danack at which layer do you currently handle things like "user must be authenticated"?
 
12:25 PM
@Ekin o/
 
ohai kelunik :)
 
\o
@NikiC I've seen (I think) 3 patches that are something to do with 3472, none of them look good to actually use imo ... I don't really understand what is the difference between the ci environment and a normal mac, but do remember we had to avoid linking to system libs in our own mac build ...we didn't modify ac
 
@kelunik Middleware mostly. But then I also get fancy sometimes and have a type that checks whether the person accessing a resource should have access to that resource. (e.g. when accessing a users data, whether they are that user, or an admin) and making the layer that accesses the resource be dependent on that type.
@kelunik I offer no opinion on whether to share stuff by default.....it's probably not the right thing to do.....but will work for the majority of people, and saves quite a bit of time....
@kelunik and yes, for some stuff, I just clone the injector and add specific stuff that shoudn't be shared with the rest of the program.
 
12:49 PM
@JoeWatkins I think the problem is that if some extension adds the system include path, then that can interfere with other exts, because now suddenly it's no longer the last fallback, but somewhere in the middle of the include order. So if a library exists both in system path and homebrew, the system one may be picked
But as I said in the comment, I think this needs a case-by-case fix, and the current implementation is really more of a hack
And these PRs extend that hack for macos, which makes it more obvious what a hack it is because the macos paths aren't something nice like /usr
 
before I ask on list - any strong objections to turning on issues for php/web-bugs?
 
1:32 PM
Morning
 
@IMSoP I can't be arsed to link this on the list for reasons, but to follow-up on one point: the github access controls are terrible, and something like this is what would be needed.....but there is zero chance of Microsoft implementing that, as they want github to be the platform, rather than a tool that can be swapped out.
 
1:44 PM
@Danack Do you configure that separately for each route or rather like a global middleware?
@Danack With the current new design there's no default, but it has the cost of having to register every class to be created in the injector. I'm not sure how much of a problem that really is. If you're working with interfaces, you have to register every class anyway.
If something depends on \stdClass, I'd rather get an error if I haven't configured anything than an empty new \stdClass I think.
 
@kelunik global middleware. But different one for admin section, and one for user section.
 
@kelunik I agree. I also would prefer the low-level API not provide a default and require you to explicitly state whether the thing is shared or not. A higher-level wrapper can provide something friendlier if you don't want to be explicit.
 
@kelunik yeah.....I've been tending to make constructors private/protected to avoid accidental construction and also a stupid hack that at least gives a nice error message:
 
I currently also require a definition for something you pass to the equivalent of Injector::make, but that's something I should change IMO.
 
function forbidden(\Auryn\Injector $injector): void
{
    $injector->make("Please don't use this object directly; create a more specific type to use.");
}
 
1:51 PM
@Danack That's good to hear. I was a bit worried when I noticed I broke that basically by accident while reworking the tests.
 
@NikiC Do you think there would be any tangible benefit to using a portion of the mmap memory for the VM stack instead of a separate emalloc chunk in fibers?
 
@kelunik For my use cases and my desire to be explicit about stuff I'm ok with this. I would imagine other use cases that would be difficult.
 
@Trowski Don't think so
 
@Danack If they build a system like Jira, it'll be fun to configure. But seriously, most open source projects don't have the resources to manage that external auth system.
 
@Trowski I think I have the fibers now working with xdebug correctly, but I'm seeing an odd single-step sequence that I'm still investigating.
 
2:04 PM
WeakReference will cause memory leaks ・ Unknown/Other Function ・ #81027
 
@Jeeves again?
 
@Derick Oh man that's super exciting. Getting better debug information from async calls is something I'm really stoked about in 8.1
 
@kelunik possibly true, but I am getting really irritated by users, for various reasons, and I think that people's behaviour is going to get worse over the next few years, not better. There's just so many people who have never maintained a library, or even fixed a bug in a library they use, and just want want want.
@Danack or maybe not the same report...
 
@Derick Sounds awesome! Unfortunately we can't have "stop all fibers" / "stop single fiber" without a built-in scheduler.
 
3 years to write a test ...
years
 
> We’ll see how things look by the time of the LLVM 11 release.
@NikiC Time for a follow-up blog post?
 
@NikiC What about the size of the initial VM stack. Currently 16k is allocated. Too big or about right?
 
cmb
@JoeWatkins I guess Jakub would be happy about more people helping with FPM.
:)
 
well ... it's such a pile of crap that nobody feels confident merging anything non-trivial ...
 
@Derick Weird sequencing when switching in and out of a fiber or?
 
cmb
2:22 PM
@JoeWatkins fortunately, it is the least important SAPI, isn't it ;)
 
"I'm just working on other things" works for a month, or two, or even 6, maybe a year ... but three years feels totally unreasonable ...
 
cmb
I think he's not sponsored for working on php-src, but is also the maintainer of openssl and json.
 
@Danack yeah, my impression is that's the main reason a lot of projects have bots hanging out in their issue trackers, just to respond to comments like "add label blah", "assign to blah", even "edit title", without having to give "owner" permissions to the world and its dog
 
okay, if you haven't got time that's totally cool, but don't pretend you will have at some point for 36 whole months, at some point it becomes cruel to whoever opened the pr, if it's not going to be merged for whatever reason, then say so ... and anything that hasn't been merged in three years, whether it needs a month of work or five minutes, is not going to be merged ...
I also asked at two years for some input ...
 
@Trowski When switching back into a suspended one, I think
 
2:49 PM
@Derick Have anything I can try?
 
There is a branch at github.com/derickr/xdebug/tree/php81-fiber — if you single step through that -002 example you showed the other day, you'll see it jump to above the suspend, when it resumes.
 
Am I the only one who's getting Session test artifacts?
I imagine there must be a missing clean section somewhere
 
@Derick I’m running a couple minutes behind, but I’ll be there in a bit. Not long.
 
OK
 
@Girgias What's the reason for favoring the old zend_parse_parameters over fast ZPP? Maybe I shouldn't have changed the other usage then either.
 
3:03 PM
@Trowski Generated code size, fast ZPP basically copies all of the handling into the function to inline it which the compiler can optimize but at cost of the resulting binary. If my recollection is correct
 
@Girgias That sounds correct looking at the macros.
So for non-critical functions then zend_parse_parameters makes more sense. I might switch the other one back then.
 
So it makes sense to use for "hot functions" and/or union types (because traditional ZPP doesn't have support for it because it would be a massive mess), but yeah usually non critical functions should use the function variant, except if Dmitry finds that function is somehow a hot functions in Symfony/WP
 
Well, register_tick_function I think is about as polar opposite to a hot function as you can get.
 
Indeed :D
Also I wonder, is the encoding declare actually that useful or?
 
My initial impression was fast ZPP should be used everywhere but changing things was a lot of work so that's why a lot of zend_parse_parameters remained, but I didn't consider binary size.
 
3:09 PM
@Trowski Fast ZPP is a nicer API, so I think it gets used a lot of the time anyway.
 
@StatikStasis it's been weekend again \o/ :) soundcloud.com/user-892484758-236707652/whatever-comes-58/…
 
@LeviMorrison There's a lot of that too, yes.
@Girgias I forgot that even existed :P Let's just remove all declares in PHP 9.
 
@Trowski you need to initialize the arg_num and zval* with traditional ZPP (well that's what I needed to do for the shutdown one as I was getting weird test failures under ASAN)
@Trowski You're in luck :p I've got a big meta document about unifying our typing modes :p
Anyway off to do some tutoring will be back
 
@Girgias What? I even ran the tests through asan?!
 
Well maybe it was just a shutdown specific thing then, dunno
 
3:23 PM
I'll double check.
Thanks
@Girgias I think unifying them for 9 would make sense. The community has obviously decided strict_types is the way.
 
3:38 PM
Anyone looking for a great company moving from Laravel to multi-cloud SOA in the US, lmk. Platform Science is hiring. :)
 
3:50 PM
@ramsey Grr - i do even have an account, but I just didn't login :-D
 
@Derick No worries. :-D
 
@Derick have you mentioned how to transfer the file (333 MiB)?
 
not by email :-)
Link to google drive perhaps?
 
@Trowski Given how large the allocated C stack is, I don't think it particularly matters ^^
Though the real answer is: no idea...
 
@ramsey @PatrickAllaert Do you want links to linkedin/twitter/github/blogs? Email me the links :-)
downloading the files now
 
4:01 PM
@NikiC Mostly wondering about the semantics of frequently allocating and freeing 16K from ZendMM, if that's a performance issue or not.
 
@Trowski Did you have a look at my branch?
 
@Trowski benchmark it :P
@Derick lol
 
lolwat?
 
Didn't know you owned a ranch ;)
 
I don't, I mistyped!
@NikiC Care to have a chat about your next RFC on the podcast btw? Recording next Monday?
 
4:05 PM
@Derick ok
 
@NikiC Ok :) ZendMM retains chunks of memory for reuse, correct? So there would be no reason for me to write my own code to reuse VM stacks between fibers?
@Derick Not yet, will soon.
 
@Trowski correct
 
@NikiC what time?
 
I now wish the C stack size wasn't configurable, as it really complicates any potential reuse of stacks between fibers. 2M results in a stack depth of 1830 in a script that recursively calls array_map.
 
4:25 PM
@Derick I too see it jumping above the call to Fiber::suspend(). Perhaps because the Fiber::suspend() call hasn't returned yet in the fiber, you need to increment the opline past that call when resuming a fiber?
 
I don't ever increment anything. Xdebug only sees what the EXT_STMT opcode has, so perhaps fibers don't generate the right line numbers in opcodes yet?
I haven't updated vld to check for this yet :-)
 
@Derick I guess? Fiber::suspend() is just a method call, not an opcode.
My assumption is the line number generation would be the same as any other method call.
 
yeah, the line numbers look fine
oh, it jumps into the closure defined in the loop->read() - perhaps this is OK?
 
Oh! Yes, that's exactly what should happen. That would have been more obvious if that wasn't a short closure.
Seems to work perfectly then.
 
excellent :-)
Now I need to write a test. (And remove my debug info). I'd love for you to try it on a complex app with many fibres too.
@NikiC 10am BST/11am CEST on Monday then?
 
4:39 PM
@Derick Yes, I'll try it right now on the fiber-based version of Amp.
I'm pleasantly surprised how little code was required to support fibers.
 
fewer lines than the hack swoole made
 
Xdebug and Fibers are cuddling nicely now?
 
yes, mostly. Some little kinks to work out
(like debugging information)
 
Normally the cuddling comes after the kinks, but...
 
4:44 PM
@NikiC Were you going to bring this one to a vote? wiki.php.net/rfc/new_in_initializers
 
5:03 PM
qq: I once built php-src, and at the end I had a nice PHP CLI executable. I thought it was in sapi/cli.
 
that sounds right
 
Building it again, now I don't see my PHP CLI. Do I need to include a build option, or am I just not looking in the right spot?
 
@BenMorss The executable should be under sapi/cli/php.
 
Sadly that does not exist here.

It did create a file called `php.1` ...
er, <code>php.1</code>
curses
anyway, php.1
 
@BenMorss What build configure options did you pass? ./buildconf && ./configure --enable-debug && make -j16 does it for me.
 
5:08 PM
I ended up doing something similar...

./configure --enable-debug --enable-gd --without-iconv --disable-opcache-jit
 
@BenMorss And make succeeds?
 
@BenMorss if you go multiline, SO chat won't use markdown. The message has to stay single-line. The one exception is using "Fixed Font" which should precede each line with four spaces, and preformat your message (sorry for double ping)
 
it did. This was last week, though, so I'll try it again...
thanks, Tiffany! Trying that now
hooray
oo, preformatting
 
strikethrough is ---
 
@BenMorss Might also wanna do a make distclean and then try from the top.
 
5:13 PM
That's a good idea, yeah. I'll commit my changes, return to master and try it again
 
@Derick Everything seems to work as expected with some convoluted Amp code that switches between 3 different fibers while unpacking arguments from a generator running within one of those fibers. Also worked well in the fiber-based amphp/http-server.
 
And it shows the {fiber:FFFFFF} as the bottom of the stack too?
 
thanks, everyone - it's all there now. I guess the build didn't complete last time around!
 
@Tiffany You missed some quality AmongUs last night.
Paul was on full tilt by the end.
 
@BenMorss Cool. If you change anything in the source files all you need to do usually (except when editing header files or adding new files) is re-running make.
 
5:24 PM
I'm only sad because I can't get interactive mode to work
(although I am quite excited that it built)
if I do a php-cli -a
I get a segfault
Otherwise it works great though!
 
@PeeHaa \o/
@PeeHaa Nice image of the first blackhole ever "photographed."
 
:P
 
That... housebeat....
@PeeHaa thwomp thwomp thwomp thwomp thwomp thwomp
 
@Trowski TBF I think the solution is to make coercive typing mode less bonkers, instead of enfocing strict_types which only affect a teeney tiny bit within PHPs type juggling
 
@Derick Yes. What do the varying background colors of the stack calls mean in PhpStorm? Some are brown, others don't have any background.
 
5:30 PM
We've been watching too many hardstyle festivals on the youtupe lately :D
 
lol =P
 
@Girgias Yeah, we've been slowly moving toward that. I think if that were done for PHP 9, we could then remove the two typing modes.
 
@PeeHaa Nice arrangement so far. I love the melodic interludes you're adding to these. I still want to hear you go into a breakbeat following those.
 
I think that would require eliminating any automatic string -> number conversion.
 
@Trowski Yeah got a bit of a roadmap of things which probably needs/should be done: github.com/Girgias/unify-typing-modes-rfc
Eh I don't think string to number conversions need to go per se
It just need to be extremely sane numeric string semantics
 
5:33 PM
@StatikStasis Will try for the next track
 
Basically anything that doesn't match [1-9][0-9]*|0
Well, floats too I suppose.
But yes, if it exists, it has to be very narrow.
 
I'm all for making things default better, but the benefit of strict types is you find out in a hurry where you've got a potential error, rather than because of the exact content of the data.
 
Again static analysis
 
@Sara I should've stayed on discord. After the first round, I knew I wasn't going to be able to be convincing as an impostor or crew member. I had trouble concentrating on stuff.
Having trouble concentrating on stuff today, even :/
 
Tbf I think numeric strings are actually sane now, and that the current semantics are fine, sure there is the weird '0e1' problem with exponential notation but that's covered by not accepting floats which will be fixed in PHP 9 too (reminds me I need to finish that PR)
 
5:39 PM
Until PHP provides in-built static analysis at compile time, it will always be a minor element of PHP development
 
@StatikStasis is a breakbeat like this aloud youtu.be/kI0oyQCyOAY?t=179? :P
he actually has a better one 1 sec
 
What, if you want that strictness you'll go and add it, I'm not sure why on earth it needs to be bundled with PHP
Because frankly I still think strict_type although convenient, provides a false sense of security because you one thinks it covers a bunch of things when it doesn't
 
nvm cannot find it :P a.k.a. too much effort :P
 
I think most people will stick with strict types. Better to have type juggling errors hit as soon as possible rather than in response to specific values, rather than types.
What is missing... is more descriptive ways of doing explicit casts.
 
5:57 PM
recently i came across swoole and reactphp. i am a node.js developer but for one of our projects we were thinking of using wordpress and hired a PHP developer. now we want to do async stuff and so reactphp seems to be like a great choice that would give same experience as node.js but in php and the developer won't have to
learn node.js. however i have noticed there are not many questions that get asked on SO related to swoole or reactphp. what should i make of that? are these fringe technologies?
 
@morpheus Swoole is heavily used in China. It's extremely powerful but the documentation in English can be lacking in some places.
 
i noticed that. we are thinking of using reactphp because of that.
 
React is popular, also add Amphp to your list
 
only need 1 :)
 
How well any such tools would interact with wordpress and it's global state spam... is anyone's guess.
 
6:00 PM
we won't be using wordpress. that was meant to give background.
 
Incident with GitHub Pages
 
I suppose it depends on what you plan to do that's async.
also Amphp supports ReactPHP amphp.org/react-adapter
 
@PeeHaa That's actually a hiphop beat because of the bpm
@PeeHaa One type of breakbeat (Florida Breakbeat to be specific) youtube.com/watch?v=bK1WD5OvKhs&t=55s
@PeeHaa Nu Skool Breakbeat: youtube.com/watch?v=pBmQPU1yzGY
Alright... enough pings =P
 
I have some dnb stuff I have been working on offnon
 
I love DnB. DnB is basically a hiphop beat that runs at twice the beats per minute
As far as the beat itself... not necessarily the makeup of the track
@PeeHaa You can hear Pendulum on this popular song go from a hiphop beat to DnB youtube.com/watch?v=G4kChxa55Mk
 
6:19 PM
You got it wrong. It's all Amen ;-)
 
@PeeHaa That's a good breakbeat too =)
 
isn't that the most sampled thing in existence of things?
 
I'm not sure.
I just read the description. I had always heard that DnB came out of someone running a record on 45bpm that was intended to run on 33bpm.
 
It's funny though that such a short sample become several genres
 
That is crazy but I can definitely hear it and understand that it could happen.
That's right it goes HipHop speed up beat Breaks... speed up beat Drum and Bass
 
6:34 PM
@morpheus The lead of Amp is also in this channel and no doubt has opinions. :-) Expect the two to move closer together in 8.1 with the introduction of Fibers.
 
6:55 PM
All issues have been resolved!
 
02:00 - 19:0019:00 - 00:00

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