« first day (3858 days earlier)      last day (1076 days later) » 
00:00 - 22:0022:00 - 00:00

10:00 PM
If we ever introduce a string object, as a few have suggested, would it make sense to make that UTF-8 from the get-go?
 
@cmb "I can explain it to you, I can't understand it for you"
i.e. I see where you are coming from but some things are just complicated and cannot be simplified
 
cmb
this is why I love and hate it at the same time :)
 
ditto :-P
 
The uasort / uksort function does not work correctly ・ *General Issues ・ #81024
 
^ without reading, I bet it does
 
10:12 PM
php 8.0.5 ・ Built-in web server ・ #81025
 
cmb
@DaveRandom yep; OP compares $a > $b
 
I lost interest before I could find the error :-P
 
cmb
@Jeeves sigh, BOM
 
the other one ^^ I'm unsure about the validity of, I have corrected the title but not sure whether it's reasonable to expect serialized data to survive text-based transmission
the format is very specifically text-based so it doesn't seem completely unreasonable to expect that to work, though also UTF8-with-BOM in general is a stupid thing to even exist, let alone write out by default
 
cmb
I think that is about a PHP file with BOM. aka bommer
 
10:26 PM
OK, bommer.
 
tbf it seems like a common and specific enough edge case that it might make sense to handle it
I find it very annoying that editors exist that do this by default though, it literally serves no useful purpose
esp since the input to said editor did not have a BOM
it's not like that sequence of bytes will ever appear at the start of a file under any other sane circumstances though
 
cmb
I don't dare to disagree with Harald, though. ;)
 
cmb
If RH says it's not a bug, we surely have to agree. ;)
 
I mean he's not wrong in any way but also it comes up over and over and it would be a pretty trivial fix, feels like the person-hours win would be pretty quick :-P
also, as a side note, I realise I do not have a gender-neutral term for "man-hours", open to suggestions
person-hours sounds wanky, sorry
 
10:33 PM
Well if you multiply a man-hour by 6 to account for outfit choice, you get a woman-hour.
 
that is both excellent and entirely unacceptable :-P
 
But probably job-hours or work-hours
 
a bit soviet
 
cmb
Users stumbling over BOM might be very educational, though. Could be a nice hint about Unicode etc.
 
@cmb k fine, then we should emit a warning pointing them in the right direction
 
10:36 PM
 
"it doesn't work" isn't really a fair error message if the objective is education :-P
 
cmb
@DaveRandom even a notice could break a lot of code, but I'm not against it
 
@MarkR yeh but that feels as wanky as "wait-person" instead of waiter or waitress
like I'm all for gender neutrality but sometimes "man" really is just a thing that has morphed into meaning "person", there aren't many but "man hours" is (imho) one of them
sue me.
 
@DaveRandom Well as the whole thing is based on the principle that people are too dense to understand context and that man-hour includes women too :P
Give it time, someone probably will try to sue you for it. It's a crazy world.
 
@MarkR sure but also I do see how as e.g. a young trans person who is still figuring life out might feel alienated by it, that's my actual concern
idgaf how people judge what I say other than the ppl affected by it
so weirdly it turns out I only use the abbreviation "ppl" when I am talking about people I give a crap about, it would seem from a cursory glance at recent whatsapp exchanges.... idk whether that is a useful observation but it's interesting
 
10:44 PM
I just find it a very sad and depressing state of affairs society is turning to a place where there's no room for nuance or context. It's scary how close it gets to newspeak.
Although admittedly that's more aimed at things like the tech fascination with whitelist than pronouns
 
so earlier today I finally watched the last ep of Can't Get You Out Of My Head (latest Adam Curtis doc, currently on BBC iPlayer) and I'm currently of the opinion that it is in the best interests of humanity to destroy the internet
not for the first time after watching a film he made
 
I get that feeling a lot... like after spending 10 minutes on twitter
 
I can understand some of the pushback on "man" as generic, but at the same time, s/man/person/ leads to a pretty lame language structure.
 
> Can't Get You Out Of My Head (latest Adam Curtis doc, currently on BBC iPlayer)
everyone should watch this immediately btw
 
@MarkR Oh don't get me started on the absurd language policing. Or how much my last company spent having to make it possible to rename the master branch...
 
10:47 PM
that would require signing in to iplayer, i avoid that on principle :P
 
but also know that after the despondency comes a will to build it better :-P
@MarkR a stupid principle, if I may say
if costs you no anonymity, you can use any email address you want, its security theatre
 
Exactly, yet they make you do it anyway for the purposes of tracking what you watch etc. Having already paid a hundred+ quid for the privilege under threat of prosecution
 
and the BBC create excellent content which they provide behind a reasonably well built system, which legally requires you to sign in to it for age and location licensing reasons but you could use a thro-away email if you want
@MarkR "they" don't, the UK govt do, mostly to make you tick a box that says you are of age, mostly because of facebook
every UK-based content provider is complying with the same law
 
When was that introduced? Because it was available without it for years
 
the demonisation of the BBC is fucking insane, like Jordan Petersen insane
BBC news is a joke, but that is a very separate thing from the BBC as an institution
it is being torn apart and everyone will miss it when it is gone
 
10:51 PM
BBC news is about the only thing I use from them in the past 10 or so years
 
(I feel strongly about this :-P)
 
@MarkR I think it is easy being the majority demographic in tech to say that these kind of things are no big deal. I prefer to take these kind of opportunities to critically analyze the use of the term. What does it mean to "white" something? Isn't it more semantic, and more meaningful, to name something like this "allow-list", "include-list", "permit-list" or some other thing that is actually descriptive of what the list is for?
 
@CharlesSprayberry Assuming you chose to ignore the literal dictionary definition of the original term - dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/whitelist
A whitelist / blacklist is a term used for 400+ years and has to my knowledge never been associated with race... until the invention of Twitter
 
There's a lot of words that were used 400~ years ago that we don't use today.
The whole idea of a language is that it adjusts and changes over time to match the societies that use it.
I shouldn't need to look up an old english etymology dictionary to understand why they named it "black" when other, more meaningful, modern terms exist.
I'm not trying to suggest this is a racial thing
 
And yet some words are not allowed to evolve. It's the hypocrisy that gets me.
 
10:58 PM
it seems reasonable to me that when you are talking about boolean logic, you should avoid the most inflammatory possible terminology
 
@CharlesSprayberry If someone sees the word "blacklist" and thinks "That's obviously referring to the inherent badness of a particular race" then those people need to seriously reconsider their thought processes.
 
"Guy" used to be a man's name. Then it became an insult. Then it evolved into a generic informal term for male.
 
Humans are meant to be smart... surely it is not beyond the wit of man to appreciate that language is used in context, and often times with subtly
 
I'm not trying to get into a debate about race :P More, why is "blacklist" more semantically meaningful than "block-list", "deny-list", "exclude-list", "ban-list", etc? I don't believe that it is. The fact that there's some potential benefit with inclusiveness is a side effect.
 
And now it may or may not have evolved into a generic informal term for a person, depending on what social circle and part of the country you are from. I know more women that use "guys" to refer to a group of women than I do women who object to it.
 
11:04 PM
You just gave 4 examples all of which most people would collate under the general heading of "blacklist" :p
 
I definitely use the term "guys" to mean "people" but someone posted on twitter the other day about how men are fine that until you talk about "the guy they are dating" which is totally valid
actually I think it was "dude" but I see them as synonyms
the problem needs a new word but getting the world to agree on that lol
@CharlesSprayberry deny/allow I am saying, mostly because apache
 
Identity politics being what it is, it is unlikely that any one word will ever suffice anymore. The tendency if anything seems to be to divide into smaller groups, each demanding individual attribution.
 
@DaveRandom That's probably what I would go with as well.
 
I'd be OK with yes/no tho
yeslist and nolist is ridiculous though :-P
 
Should have a yeetlist for users who get yeeted into the void
 
11:10 PM
yeetlist/keeplist
 
Another word that just sorta popped into existence that I object to. (Now get off my lawn!)
 
... Would you like to yeet them off your lawn?
 
@Crell I felt incredibly old as I typed that. Like the steve buscemi skateboard meme guy
@DaveRandom Really rolls off the tongue
 
You all should join us for Among Us
 
/me is not Among You.
 
11:16 PM
@Crell youtube.com/watch?v=EpYHp-W51H4 so for some reason you brought to mind this, from like about 2.55 there's a bit where it's basically "angry neighbour gets caught up in the funk", like if there were ever people on your lawn I feel like you would go make friends with them and end up inviting them in :-P <3
 
Thanks, but I've never played and don't feel like starting. :-) I never cared for Werewolf type games anyway.
 
Booooooo
 
Besides, I have stuff I need to do tonight.
 
Should try it sometime
 
signing off chat because it is game over, either I leave now or post like 50 youtube links, peace oot youtube.com/watch?v=IxEIQQkhyeI
 
cmb
11:39 PM
@Danack, re libjpeg(-turbo) you may want to read sourceforge.net/p/libjpeg-turbo/mailman/message/30359559. I'm not sure whether I should post that link on the ML. Or even github.com/winlibs/libjpeg/blob/master/README#L303.
 
00:00 - 22:0022:00 - 00:00

« first day (3858 days earlier)      last day (1076 days later) »