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12:04 AM
I don't understand the reason, but string constants won't work as string interpolation in that fashion: 3v4l.org/Oe2EK
also, what's the point of this?
# Regex
const REGEX_USERNAME = "/^[A-z0-9_]{" . self::MIN_USERNAME . "," . self::MAX_USERNAME .'}$/';
const REGEX_PASSWORD = "/^[A-z0-9_\\\*\-]{" . self::MIN_PASSWORD . "," . self::MAX_PASSWORD .'}$/';
if you're regex-validating a password... staaaahp
 
DGF
Wuuuut, I also tried concatenate and it didn't work, probably forgot something. Thanks!
Just testing out stuff to learn oop. Trying to do a form validator for login, register, etc..
 
trying to remember the best practices for password validation, but ultimately you'll be hashing the password, so any security measures done for password is CSRF and the like...
I think
either way, don't regex-validate a password because you severely limit what your users can use in their password, and it pisses people off (like me)
I have definitely turned away from registering for an account if the password verification was crappy
 
DGF
Still need to add the methods for that. But was first trying to figure it out how to print the cons...
True, I hate it when sites severely limit what I can use but... I need to limit somehow
Thanks for link, seems to have some good content
 
@DGF no, you don't
 
12:19 AM
@DGF Why do you need to limit it?
Beyond the stuff described in the article about length why do you need to limit anything else about the password?
 
DGF
So, can I let the user input anything?
 
that's the idea
you're using parameterized queries, that protects you from SQL injection (...for about 99% of cases, that is)
as long as you're not doing some kind of weird remote execution from passwords... in which case you have worst issues to resolve
 
If you're hashing the password properly what's the big deal with letting them input anything?
 
:P you beat me too it
password_hash()/password_verify() is all you need
https://paragonie.com/blog/2016/02/how-safely-store-password-in-2016#php-bcrypt
https://paragonie.com/blog/2017/12/2018-guide-building-secure-php-software#secure-php-passwords
 
If you prohibit characters in your users' passwords, then YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG.
7
Period. No buts. No what-ifs. No. You're doing it wrong.
 
DGF
12:28 AM
Hmm always thought you should limit some chars, will look into it. But if thats the case, wouldn't we be seeing more "weird" usernames (with random chars)?
 
You're intentionally weakening security for no benefit.
Didn't say usernames.
Said passwords.
Pro-tip: A username is not a password.
 
DGF
oh nvm, my mind went somewhere
 
also, what if your user is from a non-Latin alphabet country?
 
With usernames it's VERY reasonable to limit input.
But ^^ As Tiffany said, you should be careful with HOW MUCH you limit them.
Fortunately, unicode provides a concept of "character classes", so you can filter out things like punctuation and weird space characters without having to disallow all non english characters.
 
DGF
Yeah I see, if you use prepared stamentments + hashing I guess it would not be a problem
Thanks for the tip :P
 
12:31 AM
@DGF Unless you have null bytes in there :)
 
You need to normalize the string before hand for non ASCII chars, and I always found spaces to be a bit weird as a user, buuuut that's no concern for the system it's just another codepoint
 
Okay. Restricting passwords to not contain NUL is probably reasonable... probably
But only because I'm not sure I have faith in the bcrypt function we call
 
bcrypt cuts it
 
sigh
 
Sorry :)
 
12:34 AM
We should probably make password_hash() use the 'P' specifier then. ((Checks for null bytes and throws if they're found))
Or does argon behave?
 
Dunno tbh
 
Still, we can make the bcrypt algo throw on a null byte, that seems a very reasonable safety rail to apply
 
Never really understood why that was not a thing to begin with besides "it's all http strings somehow"
As in coming from forms
 
php_crypt() completely ignores the pass_len argument :facepalm:
I'mma RFC this. That's dumb.
 
Just stop looking at things for your own sake
 
12:39 AM
No, this makes me angry.
Okay. Looks like libargon2 is binary safe at least.
Though I should add some tests using fixed salts to make sure an appended null results in different data
 
@JoeWatkins @LeviMorrison https://wiki.php.net/rfc/partial_function_application - I think the RFC text is all ready to go, just pending a PR to link to. Please make sure I didn't misstate anything, or if there's anyone else we should include, etc.

Who wants to run the internals discussion? (I'm happy to do so, but since it's Levi's design and Joe did the actual work, I'm happy to let someone else take point.)
 
Ooooh PFA.... peers at RFC
@Crell In the first code example/comparison, you use a different variable name between them. Should probably make them match for clarity.
 
You mean $partial vs $partialFoo?
 
Yes.
 
I agree with the ? sigil but man I want T_BLING to be a thing
 
12:52 AM
Also there's no "foo" in that example.
 
Got it, will update. Thanks.
 
@Crell #2 You have an example calling log10($n, ?); But log10 doesn't take two args, it only ever takes one.
 
@CharlesSprayberry Honestly the name is the only argument in its favor. But it is a compelling argument.
@Sara Exactly.
(That part is from Levi originally.)
 
How is that "exactly" ?
You're saying an invalid function call is equivalent to a valid one?
Oh oh oh
You're saying it gets ignored the same as calling any function with too many args ignores extras.
 
Correct.
 
12:54 AM
Got it.
 
Which, in that case, gives you a closed function that takes no arguments but will evaluate its original function call when called.
Which... is kinda neat, when you think about it.
 
"places not filled are simply not included in what's sent to the underlying function" <--- I don't love that. You've defined a PFA that takes 3 args, you only give it 2, and that's... fine?
 
It's as fine as the original function. I believe it's just following what named functions do already. (Also a section from Levi originally. I'm just the copy editor. :-) )
 
Everything else I like, +1.
 
:toot:
 
1:20 AM
@CharlesSprayberry my only regret with not using @@ for attributes is we missed out on T_ATAT
 
@Sara It's kinda weird at first, but partial functions are about the bound parameters, not the unbound ones. We just some way to know "hey this is a partial application" instead of doing a full one. A single ? or ... (assuming that part was implemented) is all it takes.
Originally I thought there should be a parameter made for each ?. I forget what made me change my mind, but it was actually a discussion here on SO chat a long time ago.
But that's why I put ... in there. If you do foo(?) and the foo function takes multiple args, it's a bit confusing, so being able to write foo(...) is a bit more natural, but technically no different.
There's a bit of language pioneering here, because most languages only allow binding the left-most arguments with function.bind which isn't very general. Or they do automatic partials when you haven't passed enough args (like currying) but that won't work for PHP, and again is left-most parameter focused.
> Any function or method call in which one or more of the arguments is an argument placeholder instead results in a closure being returned which wraps the called function, fixing the given (non-placeholder) arguments.
So, again, as the RFC says, its really about the bound (or fixed) things, not the placeholders.
And again, as it says a bit later:
> The basic idea is to use a partial function call to stamp out a copy of the function, sans parameters where fixed arguments have already been given.
Looks like ... may have been removed at some point?
Ha, Paul removed it without ever telling me, even says this in the history log:
> Remove extraneous ... garbage
 
1:48 AM
Should you provide ...? So that $f = foo(123, ...?); can be called as $f(456, 789);
Or is that in there and I missed it?
I could see it being ambiguous with splatting an array passed in, so maybe not
 
@Sara Paul removed it about a year ago without me noticing, but yeah, I feel like foo(123, ...) is more intuitive about how it handles additional parameters than foo(123, ?) is.
But, ... would not be intuitive in cases like foo(..., 456). This is why I had both.
in_array(?, $haystack)(1) should behave like in_array(1, $haystack), and in_array(?, $haystack, true, $oops_too_many_args)(1) should behave like in_array(1, $haystack, true, $oops_too_many_args).
Maybe there should be a table of with a bunch of equivalent things? So the information is compressed?
@Crell I think it may be a good idea to have an examples section that shows a bunch of things that are equivalent. Maybe put it in a two-column table?
 
 
1 hour later…
3:30 AM
$directory = new RecursiveDirectoryIterator('.');
$files = iter\filter(fn ($file) => $file->getExtension() == $ext, new RecursiveIteratorIterator($directory));
$lines = iter\flatMap($yield_non_empty_lines, $files);
$line_count = iter\reduce(fn ($a, $b) => ++$a, $lines, 0);
versus
$directory = new RecursiveDirectoryIterator('.');
$line_count = new RecursiveIteratorIterator($directory)
  |> iter\filter(fn ($file) => $file->getExtension() == $ext, ?)
  |> iter\flatMap($yield_non_empty_lines, ?)
  |> iter\reduce(fn ($a, $b) => ++$a, ?, 0) // ignore $b; we are counting occurances
;
I like the latter better. I think it's because the piping operator matches the pipeline behavior that is present, so it's easier to infer certain things.
Also, I worked hard to have an example that wasn't an example for example's sake. It's still a bit too simple for a real lines-of-code calculator, but it's closer to the real world than most examples of filter/map/reduce are.
 
PipeOp is just fluent calling for non-objects.
If you like fluent interfaces, then you have no choice but to like the pipe operator
NO CHOICE
 
Also, just noticed there is iter\count(?) which would have been a better choice than iter\reduce(fn ($a, $b) => ++$a, ?, 0) (more understandable code, fewer function calls as well).
 
 
2 hours later…
5:10 AM
mornin
 
morning
 
5:26 AM
@Crell I just woke up ... when my brain isn't fuzzy, I'll read again ...
couple of changes I see need making but can't words properly yet
like Closure::fromCallable($partial) is redundant - it will return $partial because Partial instanceof Closure ...
> but then functions identically to any other ReflectionFunctionAbstract child (such as ReflectionFunction).
the abstract is rather reduced interface compared to ReflectionFunction, and we should point of the RF will throw an exception if you try to pass a Partial to it and advise you to use an RP
@Crell I won't be involved in the discussion, I'll speak through you if I need to say anything ...
 
 
2 hours later…
7:09 AM
> because Partial instanceof Closure

ugh, PHP needs #[Sealed(...)] attribute at this point to solve this inconsistency between builtin and userland, where builtin classes can extend final stuff, and userland classes can't.
 
builtins shouldn't extend final classes, it's not a "feature" ...
 
I'd rather have PHP class be sealed by default tho
 
@JoeWatkins pong
 
morning :)
I was just going to ask if it's possible to view the commit hash on the branches tab
also, if possible, can you trigger a build of the partials branch, I think it stopped updating because I was force pushing maybe?
(I'll stop that now, because the PR is open)
 
@JoeWatkins so how does Partial extend Closure? 3v4l.org/B8HJW
 
7:15 AM
all of this is prefixed with please and suffixed with many thank yous ...
 
morning. Currently I'm showing the date only because I'm (ab)using the existing 'released at' timestamp
 
@SaifEddinGmati it forces it, but it's not part of the API I'm saying, there is no way to extend a final class ...
@Sjon sorry if stupid, where's the date ?
 
@JoeWatkins It shouldn't but I'll have a look. It downloads a new archive every time
@JoeWatkins when you hover over the name of the branch
it's well hidden ;)
 
ah, that's something ... however, I may commit many many many times in one hour, a hash would be much more precise :)
but I don't really see anywhere to put it ... ui's are not my thing ...
 
mine neither as you can see ;)
 
7:19 AM
it could be in the hover box, probably not very nice for mobiles ... a short hash would do though ...
 
the first problem I have is not the UI but where to store the hash in the db
 
the how doesn't really matter, this is still inconsistent with userland, and you can't have a class that is an instance of Closure.

while Partial is:

```
$filter_nulls = array_filter(?, static fn(mixed $value): bool => $value !== null);

var_dump($filter_nulls instanceof Closure); //
```

with sealed classes, it would make total sense: https://gist.github.com/azjezz/db734fd148f84202d19de8479dea2710
 
@Sjon ah
I don't like the idea of moving part of the type system into attributes, I don't object to idea of sealing in itself ...
it's not that strange that internals can do stuff that userland can't ...
you're very used to classes only meant to be used by internals ... it's not so different
 
yea, but user land cannot have the same level of protection as internal.

e.g if i want to have an interface in my package that is only used by internal classes, nothing is stopping end user from using it, but php core can do so ( e.g: Throwable ).
 
maybe namespace class {}
 
7:31 AM
@JoeWatkins currently the partials branch is uploaded as a regular version - meaning it inhibits the normal features of a branch, for eaxmple all existing script on 3v4l (~4M) have already been tested using that branch
 
although I imagine that would be a headache ... we could have sealed class {} but new keyword and meaningless in root ns
 
internal class Foo {} is less cryptic, but this still doesn't specify who is allowed to extend it ( e.g i can create a file with the same namespace create the class there, alias it to whatever it want, and i get around this protection ), hence why sealed is better :)
 
regardless of the name, they could get around the protection by doing the same thing though, right ?
 
well yea, but if it's sealed as shown in the gist ( gist.github.com/azjezz/db734fd148f84202d19de8479dea2710 ), it's impossible to get around.
i.e we need a way for classes/interfaces/traits to specify who is allowed to extend/implement/use them
 
yeah I see the advantage of that ...
but type system in attributes ...
 
@PeeHaa In regards to "bcrypt cuts it" (NULL character), that's part of its design. I like @Sara idea of throwing if a NULL is found (protecting everyone), today you could use a SHA pre-hash (only for bcrypt), which also protects(ish) against the 72 character limit - paragonie.com/blog/2015/04/…
It can be useful to use normalizer_normalize($pass, Normalizer::FORM_KD) for UTF-8 encoding oddities. twitter.com/jpgoldberg/status/1024469798711975939
 
@JoeWatkins well, it's already happening :p wiki.php.net/rfc/internal_method_return_types
 
@Tiffany When you say parameterized queries protect about 99% of cases, that's something that @Crell mentioned on the weekend... which examples were you thinking of? things like table/field names?
 
@SaifEddinGmati Are you the improved version of Jeeves, and now votes are automatically posted here? :D
 
I see no patch
attributes are not really well suited to this kind of internal use, we don't want to have to inspect the attributes of every class ...
 
7:46 AM
@MateKocsis RFC bot on twitter is faster :p twitter.com/PHPRFCBot/status/1385136510802952192
 
Yeah, I suspected that you were notified by that one :)
 
final class A unseal (B, C) {

}
I dunno what word, but pretty sure it shouldn't be depending on attributes ...
 
or

```
sealed Exception, Error interface Throwable {

}
```

i don't think sealed classes should be final, final should mean *nothing can be a sub type of this*
 
I somehow comprehend that to mean the opposite of what we want it to mean
 
to me sealed Exception, Error interface Throwable {} reads "a sealed exception, and error interface named Throwable", which make sens.
 
7:56 AM
A miracle happened, we had an all-green build: dev.azure.com/phpazuredevops/PHP/_build/…
 
final class {} and sealed class {} mean exactly the same thing, while the latter may not be valid syntax, I'm not sure that matters, seal and final are the same
 
@JoeWatkins sealed class Foo {} shouldn't be allowed, there always should be a classname after sealed
 
@NikiC wow
@SaifEddinGmati yeah, not valid syntax ...
stream context tcp_nodelay server [ext/standard/tests/streams/stream_context_tcp_nodelay_server.phpt] ruined my last build on mac
class A for B, C {

}
maybe ...
class Throwable for Exception,Error {}
 
@JoeWatkins yep, that looks nice. or class A sealed for B, C {} if possible ( to make it more clear )
 
@NikiC Are you going to merge github.com/php/php-src/pull/6879?
 
8:09 AM
@cmb "static xdebug" — I don't know what that means?
 
@kelunik done
 
@NikiC Thanks! :-)
 
 
1 hour later…
9:24 AM
Doc incomplete - explode ・ Documentation problem ・ #80975
 
9:38 AM
eval() with error code causes php to crash instead of throwing an exception ・ *General Issues ・ #80976
 
9:50 AM
krakjoe@Fiji:/opt/src/php-src$ cat for.php
<?php
class A for B,C {

}

class D extends A {}
?>
krakjoe@Fiji:/opt/src/php-src$ sapi/cli/php for.php

Fatal error: Class D is not a friend of A in /opt/src/php-src/for.php on line 6
krakjoe@Fiji:/opt/src/php-src$ cat for.php
<?php
class A for B,C {

}

class C extends A {}
?>
krakjoe@Fiji:/opt/src/php-src$ sapi/cli/php for.php
krakjoe@Fiji:/opt/src/php-src$
@cmb the build on windows is broken on the partials pr, it doesn't like my headering ... can you have a look please?
 
@JoeWatkins WOW
 
@JoeWatkins Can I have declare(ignore_limitations_on_extend=true)?
like for my test files
 
mock class Foo extends SealedClass {}
 
@bwoebi no, but I can feel more uopz comin' ...
 
@CraigFrancis this is what I was thinking about stackoverflow.com/a/12202218/2524730
 
9:59 AM
@JoeWatkins yeah don't know… feels weird to do runtime patching for tests :-D (and needing an ext for that :x)
 
@bwoebi this actually shouldn't exist, for the same reason you can't extend final classes, sealed classes are similar to final, expect they are allowed to be extended by some classes they define.
 
I'll fancy it up a bit and do some tests and push a branch later today, or tomorrow, or something ...
 
@JoeWatkins is it possible to do "class Foo sealed for A, B {}" ? for feels a bit cryptic.
 
feel free to do an rfc ... I don't enjoy that bit ...
it's possible, but you'll be introducing a new keyword, and people will argue with you ...
they're gonna argue with you whatever ...
 
@SaifEddinGmati I always think that final (and sealed as well) should be more like a strong nudge "don't do this, unless you know what you do, but I (as a package author) may break your compatibility any time"
instead of "I prevent you from mocking my classes because I think that's a great idea" :-/
 
10:05 AM
hack has a special attribute for this called "__Mock" allowing you to extend final/sealed classes
 
I think it's great to be able to describe how a class is intended to be used (friend classes, final classes), but just like reflection exists, there should be built-in ways (with hurdles) to override this
 
cmb
@JoeWatkins I just pushed the fix for Windows.
 
thanks
 
10:32 AM
@JoeWatkins didn't expect you to implement it :D is there a branch so i can have a look at the code?
 
@JoeWatkins I OBJECT YOUR HONOR
It's fine to argue as long as it's healthy but 99% of the time it's not
:D
 
@SaifEddinGmati I'll push a patch and tests in the next day or two, I cant focus on it completely, trying to work too ... so it'll be another 8 hours or so before I can look some more ...
 
no problem! take your time.

If you need help writing tests, i can do that :D
 
I have some validators which can be negated, i.e: ! condition, public function isNegated ... ?
for some reason "negated" feels strange
Could someone suggest a better name
Bare in mind that I have Number comparison validators, so in that context "is NEGATIVE" would be oddly confusing
": to deny the existence or truth of"
dictionary definition
I suppose it's correct
Synonyms don't help either
Maybe deny ?
ఠ ͟ಠ
 
10:56 AM
@Tiffany Thanks... but that's not really a prepared statement (point 3, emulated). The SQL string should really be kept separate (is_literal), sent to the database first (for it to create the execution plan), then the user data sent second.
 
11:23 AM
@CraigFrancis note that ATTR_EMULATE_PREPARES is still enabled by default in PDO, in current version of PHP
for MySQL, that is
 
@Tiffany Good point, do you think that will ever change?
I would hope so, but assume it's a compatibility thing for now (or was).
 
I was working on a RFC this time last year to try and change the default, but began doubting my reasons for doing it and shelved it
well, it was a compatibility thing, prior to MySQL 8
MySQL 8, AFAIK, has full support for native prepared statements
I think it was improved in like 5.6, 5.7 maybe?
 
fair, but maybe time to re-visit soon? 5.7 is technically still maintained, but 5.6 and below isn't.
 
problem is garnering support for it
hah, it's almost one year ago, to the day, that I started working on it
 
On the basis that emulated prepared statements is a bit risky, I'd hope it could be done properly now.
 
11:29 AM
I discussed briefly with Johannes over email about it, he kinda convinced me that there's not much worth pursuing it... at least as part of 8.0
I'll see if I can find the previous discussions on the mailing list on it
 
thanks... I'm just checking version numbers, and ages
 
https://externals.io/message/60841
https://externals.io/message/88018
https://externals.io/message/110156
 
Going on the basis that MySQL 8.0 provides support for server-side prepared statements, and that's been available since 2018-04-19, and anyone upgrading PHP (lets say 8.1) will hopefully be updating MySQL as well?
Thanks, reading [...]
 
@CraigFrancis one of the things I found was that there wasn't much adoption for MySQL 8.0 yet, majority of people are still on 5.x
even my employer is still on like 5.7
I need to see if I can find my notes on the subject... I don't think I threw them away...
at least I hope I didn't throw them away
 
When PDO is connecting, does it get to find out the version number?
 
11:36 AM
also chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/52043168#52043168 is in regards to PHP 8.0, not MySQL 8.0
because I was planning to write an RFC for PHP 8.0
@CraigFrancis also chat.stackoverflow.com/… :P
I occasionally generated some discussion in here
 
Nice
btw, I've been using it with LIMIT, but I haven't checked compatibility.
 
@Tiffany Am I wrong in thinking that ATTR_EMULATE_PREPARES could be set based on server_version? as in, if it's good enough, you don't need to have the risky emulated mode?
 
11:52 AM
I don't think you're wrong, and you've kinda given me an idea on how it could proceed
 
one of the problems is it breaks a lot tests that would require fixing
like in the range of 20-30
currently trying to find any digitized notes I had on the subject... and started reordering one of my folders when I realized how much of a mess it is
 
who needs testing :-P
...yeah, ignore that
 
currently working with a code base that doesn't have much unit testing ;_;
 
bonus :-D
if there are no tests, it can't fail
(or that's what the little daemon tells me)
 
11:54 AM
no, even better, I write test cases for QA on how to test the thing :P usability testing
err, not usability
I forgot the word
manual? testing
 
like the walk though tests... ones for humans to follow?
yeah, that will do :-)
 
@CraigFrancis yup
it requires the developer to understand the change well enough to write a sufficient test case for someone else to follow, which, currently, is often not the case for me XD
but I am getting better at it
 
You're not alone there... but, if you're unsure about how good your tests are, you're probably doing better than the anyone who thinks they can write perfect tests.
 
if I'm doing better, it's only marginal
 
I'm sure you are.
W. B. Yeats: "The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity", which I see as reflecting confidence (those who are full of confidence are, erm, risky).
 
12:02 PM
lack of conviction does not inherently prove ability though
there's an indication, sure
but what about awareness of lack of conviction potentially means stronger ability... gets into cyclic reasoning
 
If you're not confident, you will check things, do tests, confirm things.
 
true
 
I best go find food; and I hope the prepared statements bit goes well (I'll be free later if you want someone to check it over, or help, as it's something I'd really like to see happen).
 
cmb
12:19 PM
@CraigFrancis one problem with this approach is that some servers are lying about their version, and the general confusion with MariaDB.
 
12:35 PM
@cmb is there anything PHP can do to protect against that though? is that our responsibility?
 
cmb
I'm afraid PHP can only apply some work arounds on a case by case basis. :(
 
is the user the one who would be changing it to where their server lies about the version its on?
only reasoning I can think as to why a user would want to force the server to lie is to take advantage of something that's dependent on version without actually upgrading... I tried doing this once with PHP 5.3 and TLS 1.1 and/or 1.2, but it didn't work
 
cmb
1:13 PM
@Tiffany nope; in this case that was a "fix" in MariaDB
 
@cmb Thanks for this... am I reading this correctly, it's pretending to be "5.5.5-" because of pluggable auth?
 
cmb
I think it was about replication, but yes, it's pretending to be 5.5.5-
 
that's quite a big jump... but does that apply when the PHP client connects (as in, does this only apply with replication between servers?).
and, please forgive my ignorance... when it comes to upgrading to proper prepared statements, the server is pretending to be older than it is, so would get the emulated version (not ideal), but it shouldn't happen the other way around (pretending to be older than it is).
*newer
 
cmb
The MariaDB server always reports the fake version; PHP currently counteracts by removing the leading 5.5.5- (although there was some debate about that). That doesn't change that the result of mysqli_get_server_version() (for instance) can be very misleading.
 
huh, I never knew about that, shown in mysqli_get_server_info() as well, I'm getting "5.5.5-10.5.9-MariaDB".
 
1:42 PM
@LeviMorrison If I can figure out how to make a two column table of code samples in docuwiki that doesn't suck balls, sure. :-)
 
And protocol version has been 10 since MySQL 3.21.0.
 
fromCallable() on partial may be an effective no-op, but if you're given a callable of unknown variant then using fromCallable() is the best way currently to normalize it so you can examine the parameters or return type consistently. (I have a few libraries that do that.) So that needs to work, even if it's sometimes technically unnecessary. (The same applies to doing fromCallable() on a Closure today.)

I'm not 100% sure I follow the rest there.
@FélixGagnon-Grenier Ha! Glad I could help. :-)
 
And I don't think we can use any of the Capability Flags.
 
1:57 PM
@Crell oh I see
I made some updates to the rfc, feel free to adjust to taste
 
"result in a call with arity." Isn't there a missing "equal" before "arity" there?
 
@Tiffany seems fair?
 
oh, definitely
just makes me think of what happened last month with git.php.net
 
Yep, can come from anywhere, and reputation of a person (account) is important.
 
and signed commits :P given that the nefarious commit to php-src was made by an impostor
 
/me being lazy ... did anyone find out where the commits came from?
nice
 
3:08 PM
@Crell yeah, missing equal
 
mb_ereg_search_pos is not multibyte-safe ・ Regexps related ・ #80977
 
@CraigFrancis Yes that's what I said (the first part)
Mofogogoring alls
 
3:24 PM
@PeeHaa Yep, sorry, replying far too early in the morning.
 
It's always far too early in the morning unless it's Friday afternoon :)
 
@PeeHaa Well it's morning somewhere in the world.
 
I just rolled out of bed. That counts as morning right? :P
 
It does to me
 
@PeeHaa \o/
 
3:32 PM
\o/
 
3:51 PM
@CraigFrancis It's always morning in America, even in the afternoon.
 
@Sara Is that mourning? it's what we do in the UK :-)
 
lol
 
sorry, I have no idea where most of you are, I think Joe said Spain (lucky), and Máté Hungary? ... but as programmers, who knows what time our heads are in.
 
I think majority of r11 is in UK/EU, handful of us are in the US
Then there are some who follow US hours (employer based in US)
We're a crazy bunch
 
So the party doesen't start as such, it's just constantly going?
 
4:05 PM
The phparty don't stop!
 
4:15 PM
Well that was a complete waste of time
 
@CraigFrancis Woah. You just made that WAY too real.
Yes, we are always mourning in America, sending "thoughts and prayers" which are totes effective.
 
Well, you did get that one guilty verdict the other day, so that's something :-(
 
It'll be overturned in appeal.
PoC don't get justice in America. Read the constitution. It's literally in there.
 
Don't say that... I need to have some hope.
 
"""Representatives and direct taxes shall be apportioned among the several states which may be included within this union, according to their respective numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole number of free persons, including those bound to service for a term of years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons."""
Article 1, Section 2. Codified racism. Couldn't even wait it out till section 3.
"all other persons" count as human now, but the indigenous peoples are still in a bizarre state of limbo where they maybe get representation, maybe.
Meanwhile my mother is sad that there's no a hangman's noose on her town flag anymore.
 
4:28 PM
@Sara sounds like something my dad would be sad about
 
huh, that's really odd... sorry, still trying to parse and understand what it means... so where "Indians not taxed", they are excluded, in a special case of their own?
 
@Sara I'm sorry to say, but avoiding family interactions during the pandemic has often been a blessing for reasons like this.
 
@Tiffany Some of my family members can have some similar-ish views, often little comments here and there, I think better than most, but I'm wondering how things can change... or should I ignore them.
 
@CraigFrancis The are basically kinda sovereign
 
@PeeHaa yeh, the UK tried selling that sovereign idea a few years ago, turns out it's not exactly what they wanted.
 
4:40 PM
If sovereignty means getting forced onto undesirable land and deprived of many benefits that non-native people enjoy.
 
@Trowski ^^ It's not enough that we killed 90%+ of their fore-bearers, we corral them into the shittiest parts of the desert states and call it sovereignty.
 
And Andrew Jackson is still on our 20 dollar bill -_-
Not sure if he's the worst offender, but Trail of Tears was horrible. Either way, he doesn't deserve to be on our currency.
 
@Sara People in my state have a skewed view of that, since gambling is illegal in MN, many of the reservations run casinos, so they are viewed as being wealthy (which, I suppose is then true for some, but I doubt the majority).
 
There's a Parks and Rec joke somewhere in there
 
Wamapoke?
 
4:53 PM
That's the tribe in Parks and Rec
 
I'm just starting to watch it, and some of the way they do the murals has been interesting (while I assume completely fictional, still horrifying, as it feels like it's kinda based on something).
 
5:14 PM
@JoeWatkins Updated.
 
Incident with API Requests ・ API Requests has Major Outage
 
5:34 PM
Incident with API Requests ・ API Requests has Partial Outage
 
Question. Would it be bad form to link to an episode of PHP Internals News on the list, in the thread for an RFC?
 
All issues have been resolved!
 
6:16 PM
I feel like "binary safe" should be hyphenated :X
"binary-safe" seems like the correct wording... I think...
 
@Crell I think Derick makes a transcript available, so maybe copy that, just incase someone is unable to listen to the audio, or if the content disappears in the future.
 
6:40 PM
@CraigFrancis Well, posting the whole transcript to the list seems excessive. :-)
The link to the episode would include a link to the transcript.
 
@Trowski It's no different from off reservation; the tiny sliver of the population holds nearly all the wealth. Or at least the 1 reservation I am familiar with is that way.
 
It's more that it's not usually done, so I don't know if it would be read as rude.
 
@LeviMorrison Exactly. The problem is that many people assume all the people who live in the reservation with the casino are wealthy, so they don't need assistance, etc.
 
I would hope they were more true to tribal roots and sharing with each other... but no, they don't have to do that, and in fact many of them don't want to be part of tribal culture and just want to be regular citizens.
Community living is the way to go, but sadly most of the intentional communities I've seen are full of weirdos, ha.
(but I have not seen many)
 
Just look at the PHP community
 
6:53 PM
I should hope we're full of weirdos.
Lord save me from neurotypicals.
 
7:18 PM
@Sara Well… it's weird to not be a bit weird
 
@IluTov I'm watching a presentation on 8.1 Enums at Midwest PHP. It's kinda surreal. :-)
 
@Crell Nice! Ironically I can't watch it because I'm not registered ^^
 
heh. Just ended anyway. Pretty good tour/intro.
 
7:33 PM
Hello guys
How does google search display information about the website like in the highlighted picture?
Which information it picks up from the HTML page or from the website?
 
What about the intellisense that comes up in the google search box when we enter something?
 
@ILoveStackoverflow That's nothing you can influence. Google will suggest based on various factors, on what people commonly search, on your own past searches, etc.
 
7:49 PM
ok. Thank you so much for helping me out. Really really appreciate it :)
 
8:46 PM
@Crell True, especially if it’s just to start the discussion, and the link goes to the transcript.
 
@mega6382 you still looking for a job?
 
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