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00:00 - 23:0023:00 - 00:00

12:00 AM
I CAME HERE TO RIOT!
 
lol
 
/me runs defrags on SSDs
 
people miss understand us.
 
tell that to the families of the people who died as the battle of Understandus
 
@SalOrozco It's misses understand us
 
12:03 AM
are you sure
lol
I've always had people ask me why I was on the computer so much lol umm because I like it.
 
I thought we were throwing confusing sentences at each other?
 
lol
 
each other was having a confusing glance at throwing sentences
 
I'm not sure that doesn't make isn't want to break for chocolate?
 
@SalOrozco So does @DaveRandom's mom. I mean I can download her videos 24/7 so she must love computers a lot
 
12:05 AM
lol
momma jokes
 
there is one that was really good
 
my trousers are untennable.
 
it was an imgur post
 
I rate my own typing performance 14/10 @DaveRandom moms
 
that was clever pehha
 
12:05 AM
titled something like how big is Tamriel
 
lol
 
and like, it started by the map of one of the games
 
Dave is going to come back at you with his best shot.
 
then zoomed out to the containing plane
and again
 
@PeeHaa yeh but that's only like 0.6 on the Richter scale
 
12:07 AM
to then add a picture of your mom being even bigger than the biggest plane encompassing all of tamriel
man explaining memes is the worst thing
0/7
 
haha
waiting for PeeHaa's yo mama so fat jokes
lol
 
now I really wanna google what the impact of typing is on the richter scale but that would be giving in to my own insantiy
 
@PeeHaa mama so fat she FAT64
 
lol
 
@FélixGagnon-Grenier this is amazing
 
12:10 AM
right?
let's just hope the grown ups don't unstar / nuke that now
 
 
4 hours later…
4:28 AM
\o
 
5:06 AM
\o
 
5:20 AM
o/
 
5:51 AM
\o
 
6:47 AM
o/
I haven't slept for 27 hours, and i don't feel sleepy, something is wrong!
 
7:08 AM
opendir() warning wrong info when failed on Windows ZTS build ・ *Directory/Filesystem functions ・ #80960
 
7:49 AM
sleep is for the weak
@Sjon any chance of adding a branch (secretly) to 3v4l ? we're working on a thing, and collaboration would be useful
oh, and please :)
 
if you send me a clone-able git URI I'll look into it
do you want it invisible on the branches tab as well?
 
I have been thinking about a dedicated run-single-branch page but haven't done it yet
 
as invisible as possible is good for now
how often will it update ?
also, it may fault, I assume that won't be a problem, will it ?
 
probably daily, just like the master branch
 
7:55 AM
cool, that's great ...
 
@JoeWatkins no that's fine
 
excellent
thanks for taking the time :)
 
no worries!
I'll ping you once it's up
@JoeWatkins would you use it primarily to run that single branch, or do you want to compare it to output from other releases as well?
 
just to run that branch
 
8:28 AM
it is nice to hear that parials implementation is on the table :D
 
Very much so.
 
@JoeWatkins It should be available on the branches tab
 
8:44 AM
@Sjon thanks muchly
 
@JoeWatkins you're very welcome!
 
is this bugged, or am i doing something wrong?

<?php

function display(string $name, string $username, string $email): void
{
echo "$name: $username <$email>";
}

$b = display('Saif Eddin Gmati', ?, ?);
$c = $b('azjezz', ?);
$c('azjezz@protonmail.com');

?
 
9:14 AM
PCRE treats ellipsis character as a letter ・ PCRE related ・ #80961
 
@SaifEddinGmati fixed
krakjoe@Fiji:/opt/src/php-src$ sapi/cli/php partial.php
azjezz: Saif Eddin Gmati <azjezz@protonmail.com>
 
great!
but it should be the opposite? unless you switched the arguments?
 
9:32 AM
@kelunik @Trowski @PeeHaa So I've been doing some pretty deep integration testing with amp and I ran into some limitations with the current phpunit-util wrapper. Each test being its own loop is causing me problems because I need a database connection to persist across many tests. Right now a new connection gets created for each test and eventually I hit a point where my database just chokes on too many connections.
I started thinking about and decided to take a stab at a unit testing framework with first-class awareness of amphp. github.com/labrador-kennel/async-testing
I have a rough enough foundation in place that I'm thinking about what an async assertion api would look like. If y'all have any interest in this let me know!
 
 
1 hour later…
10:46 AM
@CharlesSprayberry Run tests one by one so you don't run out of connections ?
 
11:07 AM
@ln-s Fairly certain I'm already doing this. I think I'm still running into the underlying problem of each test running in its own loop, needing to establish and close a database connection. There's potentially 100+ tests operating in a very short time frame. I wouldn't expect many databases to deal with that well up to a point.
 
 
2 hours later…
12:58 PM
Does php.net/manual/en/splfileinfo.getextension.php Suffers from the same localization problems as pathinfo ?
 
@CraigFrancis it's awesome that you stepped up and offered to fund the thing you wanted done ... nobody does that, so kudos ...
 
@JoeWatkins Might get a donor, but I need to know if there's some karma points for it
 
@JoeWatkins really? I'd have thought that was the least anyone could do.
 
well .. the last person that offered to fund the development of something (by me), paid so little that I was actually offended, and it sort of destroyed my will to contribute ...
 
What's the going rate for an internals dev?
 
1:05 PM
I want to get to the point I can sponsor some of the projects I use a lot. OSS funding is important to me.
 
I must admit, I don't know what a reasonable budget would be, the last thing I want to do was offend... but likewise I think it's a bit rude to expect things for free.
 
@JoeWatkins What is a decent donation and what are the karma points obtained for it
 
@ln-s I had no idea there was "karma for cash" thing going on :-P
 
Most donors want rep
Yes, it's a whore show
 
I want the people who actually maintain all this stuff to make a comfortable living =\
 
1:08 PM
But hey
 
@MarkR there isn't really one, because nobody is hiring internals devs ... day rate consultation fees might be around $500 ...
 
ahh, ok, well I'd like some stone cold code... ideally of the working variety, but who knows.
 
for a c programmer ...
 
So 500 USD is a decent donation ?
I need numbers so I can maybe get a donation
 
there's not really a way to exchange karma for donations ...
 
1:10 PM
Ok then this should perhaps be a point of concern to get more donations
Like I said, donations are mostly about whoring out / attention seeking
 
I'll pay $501 for generics :-)
 
well you're not donating to the system that you want karma for ... there's no way to donate to php itself
 
seems fair
 
@MarkR A GoFundMe for PHP generics lol
 
Yeah
why not
 
1:11 PM
also, you can get karma very easily, do some work on docs and ask for it ...
 
I'd throw a couple of grand in if one existed
 
Yea I would actually throw some money at that tbh
 
But there's probably 2 people in the world capable of doing it, and both of them are already paid for dev on PHP
 
It's not about ME, I work for an institution and I could talk to the people who have the actual cash to get you a donation
but without karma points, it's hard
 
@MarkR Yea...
 
1:13 PM
I'm sure that any patreon, gofundme page would get money for PHP
how is that money split, well that's not my bussiness
 
Well that's the problem isn't it.
 
Yeah
 
at $500/day there's a lot of work that could be done, that's just beyond the reach of individual contributors (corporate not so much)
 
I think a few contributors are doing okay from sponsors/patreon, but mostly they are ignored like all the methods of donation/funding that existed before it, including putting a cheque in the post ...
 
Please let's not dwelve into politics because it will get to that direction sooner or later
lol
Perhaps donations should be per feature ?
so people who are working on that feature get paid ?
 
1:15 PM
Github sponsors is handy
 
I have no idea what that is but if anyone can put some money, sure
anything will do
 
yeah people say it's handy, and convenient, and better for business/tax reasons ...
and yet they don't click the button ...
 
I'd find it hard with a monthly donation, as it would have to come from my business account (which simply employs me), and I think it gets a bit weird with UK law and donations (I think you can only donate if your business is making a profit, like dividends, as donations are pre-tax, or something like that).
 
Would be much more tax efficient if it could be done with an invoice. That's why I can get away with an xdebug subscription, because I claim 40% off tax
and 300 vs 500 is a big difference
 
are electronic payment methods such as paypal regulated in your countries ?
Do they tax you for transfering money to a paypal account ?
 
1:23 PM
Not sure, I'm only really think about the money going into and out of the business bank account... as in, when doing the company accounts (how much was spent on what).
I don't think tax applies, as corporation tax is based on the profits of your company, and VAT is the payments made... but then again, with PayPal, I think you have personal payments (basically free), payments to companies (they take an amount and/or percentage), then currency conversion fees/rates.
 
Easily justified, someone got a 500 dollar raise!
then that someone donates through paypal or whatever
 
@JoeWatkins I pay $5 a month for Sebastian to do PhpUnit stuff -- I've used that at every job I've ever had.
 
PHPUnit is definitely one of the ones I'd sponsor if I could afford to do so
 
I believe in funding OSS, and this was my first step.
 
It isn't many projects I can say I've used for virtually every single one since I started TDD
I also discovered that I really enjoy writing tests :P
 
1:29 PM
Masochist >.>
 
I enjoy writing tests which reflect functionality
 
O rly. Github now allows 1 time sponsorships
 
If someone ever manages to set up a not-for-profit for php-src and other official PHP projects, I'm fairly certain Datadog would contribute to it financially.
 
now that is handy
@JoeWatkins you should maybe enable custom tiers
 
As of now, I am also sponsoring Joe at $5 a month. I realize that is basically nothing, but enjoy!
 
1:47 PM
@JoeWatkins Are you US based ?
 
2:14 PM
morns
@ln-s no
He is from UK originally, but is now in Spain, I think.
 
Morning, all.
 
Friday all
 
cmb
"Upon more research, I came to the conclusion that that whole [filter] extension is just rubbish." YMMD :)
 
2:45 PM
@StatikStasis I am not
 
thanks guys ...
@ln-s what @mega6382 said ...
 
@JoeWatkins You have anything like an iban bic thing
I have no idea about spain
 
I'm looking into whether it'd be feasible to introduce "classname" as a subtype of "string" in PHP (using that type would trigger a class_exists check similar to how the is_callable check is triggered by the callable type). The difficulty is introduced by PHP's internals — a lot of internal functions have IS_STRING checks, and if we wanted classname to be a true subtype we'd have to update a lot of IS_STRING checks
 
yeah
 
alright
Share it privately ?
 
2:50 PM
@ln-s I can yeah
 
How to convert BIGINT date time stored in SQLSRV to PHP DateTime ?
 
@JoeWatkins In Span from the UK... is this an appropriate time to ask how jealous you are of the UK doing something or other with sovereignty? :-)
 
When I try to use it as a timestamp it gives me 2118-02-06 ... the bigint is 4673551801
 
@CraigFrancis its not a good time to be an expat ... my banks were recently blocked, I had to choose between sending my kids to school (fuel) and feeding them
 
oh, sorry
 
2:53 PM
@JoeWatkins wtf. Because you were outside the UK?
 
any idea how that's going to be fixed?
 
@MatthewBrown An actual subtype would be a no-go for sure
 
@MarkR my spanish accounts
 
But I don't get why you'd want to have that as an actual zval type. Why is a check at the boundary not sufficient?
I.e. the same as callable, when you pass/return the class name
 
@NikiC oh you're right, there's no good reason
 
2:56 PM
@CraigFrancis I fixed it, but it was costly ... doing anything here is costly because you have to pay a lawyer type - gestor ... doing anything here usually requires the filling in of 120 forms and visiting several different branches of government, the rules are so complex, that's why gestor ...
 
@JoeWatkins glad that bit's fixed... so will you get the Spanish nationality thing, with a useful passport? rather one that's blue (black)?
 
oh not for like another 10 or 11 years from now ... but we're permanent residents, so don't have to return to the uk, and don't plan on it ...
 
good idea, I've go no idea what our electorate are hoping for... and you have much better weather.
 
I love it here, and I want my kids to be citizens of the world, not stuck on a tiny wet island ...
 
@JoeWatkins but, you know, flags, "sovrinty", trading nation, fish, something, something :-P
 
3:04 PM
have you run out of food yet ?
a french stick must be 50 bucks now at least, right ?
 
not seen anything yet... but I think the prices are going up.
 
yeah the grace period for taxes is over, everything is gonna go up by ~VAT if it comes from the eu ...
 
£40. But £30 of that is a mandatory corruption tax which goes towards paying for contracts to companies linked to political donations
 
@JoeWatkins waiting
 
and anyway, we've got out bean on toast :-)
 
3:06 PM
They still need to sort the VAT out, some retailers double-charging was just silly
 
@ln-s oh I don't know how you want me to communicate ?
 
eh uh private message in stack overflow ?
 
@MarkR no it's not silly, small business that underpay can't afford the fines if they get it wrong
their business goes bust in other words ...
 
@MarkR Yeah, it's been great fun, one of my clients did that, was asked to remove the VAT from EU orders in mid-Feb... cus, you know, we know what we voted for.
 
the fines get extremely large very quickly
@ln-s there aren't private messages on SO, only private chats (rooms) and they're all public
 
3:08 PM
ok
jp
f
stange
gmail
so no scrapping can be done
 
address ?
 
yes thats the mail address, you just put it all together
 
I don't understand the puzzle
 
and the spammers have you now :-)
 
Or, you know, you could have emailed one of Joe's publicly available email addresses.
 
3:14 PM
eh you are right
 
1 message moved to Trash can
It won't effect the amount of spam that will attract :D
 
Got it
Can someone delete the message were I typed my addresses, I can't delete it and I don't know why :D
(thanks)
 
cmb
@brzuchal I don't think there is a standard conversion; the column might store seconds from some point in time, but also some other value.
 
@ln-s we can't delete, we can only move like I did ...
 
Can only flag for moderator xD
wth
 
3:43 PM
Incident with Webhooks
Incident with Webhooks ・ Issues, PRs, Dashboard, Projects has Partial Outage
 
@ln-s fyi you can only delete your messages within the edit window (2 minutes), if you post something that you really would like expunged from the internet the mods can help you to do that
I believe that "flag for moderator" is the correct way to go about that
 
3:57 PM
@brzuchal although your format is different, the advice I just gave someone here probably applies: stackoverflow.com/a/67048626/157957
if all you know is that the column stores an integer, you're going to have to do some sleuthing to work out what that integer means
 
All issues have been resolved!
 
Thanks @cmb @IMSoP I'll try to compare some dates
Yes, I got only integer
 
4:37 PM
@JoeWatkins o/
Enjoy
 
@ln-s thanks, appreciated :)
 
@JoeWatkins Now about generics ...
xD
Nah I'm kidding
 
What's the procedure for PRs with a whole bunch of commits e.g. github.com/php/php-src/pull/6761? Should I squash them manually before merging to improve the history?
 
cmb
@MatthewBrown usually, commits should be squashed (unless each commit makes sense on its own, and there are no error corrections); this can be done by the "merger", though
 
(if you're not already aware of it, that is)
 
4:54 PM
need some kind of OR'ing AND'ing idea between objects inside of a collection of validators, I'm sure there's a pattern for that already and I wouldn't like to reinvent the wheel
 
@ln-s As in some things need validator::valid OR othervalidator::valid?
 
(true || false) && true
stuff like that, flexible
 
Those are validator results?
 
I've seen stuff like this in ORM like stuff
 
The booleans?
 
4:56 PM
the validator guys just have a validate method with void, they throw if they need to
 
ugh :)
 
there's another guy who holds them and does the try catching
 
What I am doing is having Or and And be validators themselves
Which hold validators and run the logic on them
 
was attempting something like this
class ValidatorConditions{
private const OPERATOR_AND='and';
private const OPERATOR_OR='or';
thern you would add ...
 
Make them classes themselves
 
4:57 PM
public function add(iterable $validators, string $operator=self::OPERATOR_AND){
OR and AND classes, I will think about it ... not sure how that would apply to my model
 
What is the difference between <simplesect role="changelog"> and <refsect1 role="changelog"> ?
 
spelling
do you have example links of where they have been used?
 
I suspect the functional difference is actually apparent in your links
refsect produces an anchor
that's a total guess without having actually looked tho
it makes sense tho ("ref"...)
in that case, I would expect that refsect is more restrictive than simplesect in terms of where in the document flow it is allowed to occur
I also note @Dharman that every instance of refsect changelog I can find is on a function doc page
 
cmb
^ that (refsect1 requires a refentry anchestor)
 
5:08 PM
Thanks, but it doesn't help much. I guess I could replace <simplesect role="changelog"> with <refsect1 role="changelog">
Ok, so if there is no refentry I can't add refsect1
 
cmb
If in doubt, try it out :) (./configure should catch that)
 
It's probably not worth it just for the anchor
 
@PeeHaa I get it now
so you And(validator one two three ) or or(Validator one two three)
how do you
(AND) OR (OR)
OR(AND collection OR collection) ?
hm
yeah that could be it
 
You nest them as the are validators themselves
 
Yes I was stating (values) or (values) so you do OR((and values) or (or values) )
 
5:23 PM
Let me show you what I do
 
Sounds good
 
new Any(
    new All(new Required(), new MinimumLength(12)),
    new MaximumLength(50),
)
Any is the OR and All is the AND
 
gotcha
 
They can be nested as many times as you want as they all are implementations of the same Validator interface
 
Yes so basically OR(ANDED values || MaximumLength)
 
5:24 PM
Yeah
 
I suppose you cut the execution when the anded values are true
 
Yeah
It's just a foreach which bails out basically
 
yeah you say at least one valid or something like that and then break
Hmmm ok I will try, thanks for your advice, it was really good
 
np
 
@JoeWatkins so you speak Spanish now ?
 
5:32 PM
he barely speaks english
 
lol
 
@DaveRandom :D
 
lol you guys reminded me of this gem
 
lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TpDf3me45g
You go to the gym?
Yeah
Have you ever done cocaine?
Yeah
 
 
4 hours later…
9:53 PM
Question. In what version did [$a, $b] = thing_that_returns_array(); get added?
 
@Crell 7.1
 
That long ago? Huh.
 
Zero type-safety tuples
 
woo!
 
10:06 PM
Who needs type-safety when I can just represent any data structure I want as a good ol' PHP array!
 
>.< legacy code
 
@Tiffany Evidently typing those is in discussion: wiki.php.net/rfc/typehint_array_desctructuring
 
:O
that would be nice
though, we don't use strict_types...yet...
 
Hrmm.... could that lead to having method return types like [int, string] or [int, array, string]?
 
It should be generic pattern matching, imo, not just array de-structuring.
@CharlesSprayberry Already exists in a few static analyzers, FYI.
(slightly different syntax though)
 
10:13 PM
SHAPES!
 
At this point I'd just be happy with typed arrays... I want to be able to say MyObject[] in method signatures and return types
 
HACKLANG HACKLANG HACKLANG SHAPES SHAPES SHAPES HACKLANG HACKLANG HACKLANG!!!!!
 
I know generics is a more comprehensive better solution but I just want something that'll cover the majority of my use cases for stuff like that
 
/me gets @Sara some nice hot tea to calm down.
 
PHP IS A BACKDOOR FOR THE GUBMINT! HACKLANG IS SKYNET!
 
10:17 PM
Man, my wife has started watching The Handmaid's Tale and holy shit that show is super messed up.
She had been watching some really cheesy, lovey-dovey shows and I asked her to put some grit into the next one. She put too much grit.
 
@CharlesSprayberry You should use a static analysis tool anyway, they are great.
 
@LeviMorrison Yea, I've been trying to work on integrating psalm into my projects I just haven't gotten around to it yet.
Last couple of projects I've been working on has been doing some code analysis with PHP-Parser and it has been a lot of fun.
 
I am working over Tukio with PHPInsights right now. It's... picky.
 
I remember my first attempt at static analysis... at my first job I discovered a session injection attack in the URL
 
Oops.
 
10:20 PM
I could just append whatever I wanted to the session with _SESSION[key]=val as a query parameter
I tracked it down to an inappropriate use of the extract method and I started writing a tool that would detect when you called extract in an unsafe manner
 
Is there a safe way to use extract?
 
Umm... not really
If you're really specific with how you use it yea it is possible but I wouldn't advise doing it after actually looking at how to use it
and untouched for years
I think one of the conclusions I made is that you should never ever be extracting superglobals and other things. And there are certain parameters you must pass to the 2nd(?) argument
After 8 plus years experience and a strong lean toward simplicity I would just say don't use extract if you can help it at all.
Even the one place I would have argued to use it back then, templating systems, I would probably advise not to do it that way anymore. Have some TemplateDataObject that holds the data you need that your template can access without the need for extract
 
@CharlesSprayberry I need a new show but I also need something light-hearted this time around.
 
@Tiffany The Muppets on Disney+. :-)
 
@Tiffany That's what I told my wife... she went from 7th Heaven to The Handmaid's Tale
 
10:27 PM
I tried watching Invincible and I want to like it, I want to watch it, but it's just too intense for me, presently
 
For an atheist who grew up in the bible belt it's been pretty stressful TV lol
 
I went to a Baptist church briefly in my teens. It led me to agnosticism.
 
Side note: I really wish tooling would agree on whether it's @inheritDoc, @inheritdoc, {@inheritdoc}, or whatever. Really now, just pick one.
 
@Crell I've been postponing my resubscription to Disney+. Though I think there's already at least one show I intend to binge on it. Or maybe that was HBO Max. I forget now.
Or allow all three?
 
10:48 PM
Aaaand here's a block of code that would be much nicer with a pattern matching match is expression. @IluTov had a chance to look into that further?
 
10:58 PM
class Nonsense {
    never $thing;
}
and of course, it doesn't raise an error ...
 
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