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12:01 AM
@DGF cool :-) try to understand it before you use it in real world code, but glad it helped, and if you have any specific questions about it I'd be happy to try and explain
the main thing that I think people forget is: SQL deal with tables, 2D structure with a fixed number of columns and rows. If you want to aggregate data you have to make sure you are explicitly describing the dimensions of a table, if you are working with something which doesn't;t have the same number of columns for each row then you have got something wrong
I would also recommend enabling every "strict mode" setting available - especially in MySQL, always use ANSI quotes and disable the stupid aggregation magic bey default
SELECT foo, AVG(bar) FROM baz is never ever, ever correct - it doesn't specify how the value of foo should be computed
 
12:27 AM
0
Q: Is there a canonical list of standard verbs to use for method names?

DanackI was trying to explain something to a junior programmer the other day, and as part of it I had to explain that: a method with 'find' as the verb in it, will either find an item and return it, or return null. a method with 'get' as the verb in it, will either return an item, or throw an exceptio...

Been bugging me for days...
 
I dislike the mindset of the question
 
There was one.....that I read about 9 years ago. And was probably hosted on a Java related website, so is likely deadish.
 
describe what you are doing, there are inherently no rules for that beyond the English language
imho
admittedly englush is a terrible language for technical naming, maybe we should re-standardise the internet in german
brexit and all that
 
@DaveRandom meh. "acquire and release" would be standard for .....acquiring a lock on a resource and then releasing it. But a junior might use 'get' and 'free', which would cause confusion.
 
alloc and free
acquire and release
get and set
I concede there should be standard antonyms
 
12:31 AM
probably just 'nyms'.
 
again, I disagree with the generalisation (sorry) :-P
antonyms specifically should be complementary
 
find vs get as in the linked question, aren't opposites...but not using the standard behaviours would be surprising.
 
and there are definitely other vague rules
but I don't like the idea of not being allowed to use a specific noun or verb
 
you're free to call them all John, but a big ol' list seems a useful thing to point junior developers to, rather than them going off to pick a word at random.
 
to pick a random example out of the air, "run" and "execute" (or exec) are synonymous and equally valid
it seems wrong to prevent use of one or the other
and to take it further "compute" is sometimes equally valid
this is a matter of teaching people to express themselves correctly, not limiting how they do it
imho
ymmv, etc etc :-P
I would love to discuss this more but I really need to sleep
 
12:36 AM
good plan.
 
genuinely interested in continuing though because so far I have argued my point and you haven't really responded, so ping me tomorrow if you can be bothered :-P
*I haven't given you an opportunity to respond
@Danack ahhh wait sorry I think I see what you are after, more like a collins pocket gem than all 94 volumes of the oxford english
I bet the Java world is full of shit like that but I wouldn't wish that on anyone
9 mins ago, by DaveRandom
this is a matter of teaching people to express themselves correctly, not limiting how they do it
tbh I largely stand by this, but I guess it would be useful to have maybe 5 or 6 broad categories to try to tech people to put things under
 
I'm not saying limit it. I'm saying give a list of suggestions to people who don't have much programming experience, so they can consider using any of them, if they wish.
If someone hasn't seen 'execute' used in a programming context before, they wouldn't know it could be used.
 
yeh I think I see what you are after now, like when I offer my son a choice of a few things for dinner instead of asking him what he wants, because he will say chips and ice cream or some shit
to put my classic spin on it, treating people like the idiots they are
I guess that "get/set", "create/delete" and "start/stop" covers pretty much everything
CRUD + doing things
"begin/end" for declarative things
this thing is more a list of antonym pairs for me, tbh
 
it's not about sensible verbs, it's about making sure the complements are obvious
maybe that's just a function of me
16 mins ago, by DaveRandom
I would love to discuss this more but I really need to sleep
lol fuck you, me
I opened another beer btw
:-P
"make" is the wrong verb for a start
"send" possibly, perhaps "execute"
but also "curl" is a) redundant and b) coupling your code by name to curl, instead a generic HTTP client
(sorry, I am the right level of pissed to be coherent with zero fucks given)
if anyone wants a brutally honest nitpicky word-by-word code review I am game.
@Danack actually yes you are right, "make" is not allowed, "create/destroy" are what you do to things
"make" is commonly misused and ambiguous
(sorry @Tiffany :-P)
 
1:08 AM
> 'Now I am become Programmer, the destroyer of resources'
 
no that's user
programmer make beautiful thing, user smash
I have gone from disliking your question to liking your project @Danack :-P I suggest github pages.
 
Or....
> One of the problems with the PHP manual site is that it is a monolithic repo, which results in all curation decisions needing to go through a single nexus.

Instead of having all content under a single repo, OpenDocs is an experiment in delegating responsibility for each section of a website to separate organisations.
 
recommended words and discouraged words, with descriptions of what they mean and reasons (not/)to use them
well whatever platform
 
And then transfer that particular repo to Ocramius...
 
but something simple
@Danack naturally
register the domain with his personal email etc
maybe just mail him some envelopes of nondescript white powder for the hell of it
 
1:32 AM
Evening, lads.
@PeeHaa Need new game to stream...
 
if I did a twitch stream of just me playing old lucasarts point and click adventures do you think people would watch?
 
Somebody would
 
well now I am obviously imagine people jacking off to me playing sam and max hit the road
 
Somebody would
I'm looking through Steam to find something before I start up a Days Gone stream
 
is that what you kids are calling it these days
 
1:43 AM
The Forest isn't new, but I know @PeeHaa has mentioned it before.
 
you know as an outsider this really does read like covert drugs talk
 
Path of Exile, only one week into new league
 
Thinking about Dyson Sphere Program
 
> function foo(?array $bar ??= []) {
 
1:58 AM
Dyson Sphere Program it is.
 
2:12 AM
@Danack but why
 
probably not just to annoy me, but hard to say otherwise: news-web.php.net/php.internals/112954
 
 
2 hours later…
 
1 hour later…
5:13 AM
morns
 
 
3 hours later…
8:29 AM
@DaveRandom I would
@DaveRandom I would
:D
 
 
1 hour later…
9:31 AM
child X exited on signal 11 (SIGSEGV - core dumped) ・ Reproducible crash ・ #80662
 
 
3 hours later…
12:32 PM
@DaveRandom Which Linux distro are you using now?
@mega6382 o/
 
1:27 PM
ZEND_MN(ReflectionClassConstant___construct)(INTERNAL_FUNCTION_PARAM_PASSTHRU);
Is there a better way to do this?
 
@IluTov @implementation-alias in stubs?
 
@NikiC I wanna extend it, so basically call parent::__construct();
 
1:57 PM
@samayo \o
 
2:15 PM
that moment when you can't work out why a constant is int(12) not int(1000000)... and then realise you wrote 10 ^ 6 not 10 ** 6 :(
damn you bit shifting hippies.
 
@DaveRandom order66.run just doesn't seem as good as order66.exe
 
They are both worse than order66.program though
@samayo undecided tbh, since centos is effectively dead
 
https://derickrethans.nl/talks/phparch-php-variables-article.pdf
good article! this it's still valid as a mechanism?
very very interesting...
 
order66.php - The secret wordpress backdoor that roots the machine and installs PHP 8 instead
 
2:41 PM
also this
https://web.archive.org/web/20060715074356/http://www.zend.com/zend/art/ref-count.php
 
@DaveRandom if you plan on going for ubuntu, then try neon
 
I am thinking it will be something debianish
Not got any further than that though
 
2:57 PM
There are some other people here who are looking for new linux distro fro the same reason(I believe they followed your recommendation the first time), so please share on which you decide.
 
 
1 hour later…
3:58 PM
@scorgn stackoverflow.com/questions/184618/… /cc @mega6382 all q/a
 
DGF
4:23 PM
@DaveRandom I understood that p is == table products but I didn't understood where you said that pr is == to table ratings? And other small things that I need to look up...
Never heard of "strict mode"
 
@DGF <?php declare(strict_types=1); at the top of your PHP file
 
@Tpojka lol, hits too close to home :(
 
See php.net/manual/en/language.types.declarations.php the strict typing section which I can't easily link to from mobile :|
 
DGF
4:40 PM
@Tiffany hmm thanks. If a given value is not what is expected PHP doesn't "adapt" and returns an error. It's something that someone should always use, strict mode?
 
4:55 PM
@DGF if at all possible, yes.
 
 
2 hours later…
7:01 PM
@DGF sorry I'm quite busy this weekend, remind me on monday
 
@DaveRandom I'll do it if he forgets.
 
gee, thanks :-P
 
:D
I thought there couldn't be worse than Sharknado. But check this lads and gents:
> Volcanic eruptions in Los Angeles unleash a swarm of gigantic, [lava-breathing tarantulas](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4060576/).
 
7:18 PM
@Tpojka And don't forget to check out the sequel imdb.com/title/tt4932244
 
7:31 PM
Wow. :D
 
DGF
7:45 PM
@DaveRandom Sure, no problem. @Tpojka lmaoo
 
@Tpojka Yeah… never seen any of those terrible movies. I've never understood "so terrible it's good."
I am sad to see Steve Guttenburg is in them… I enjoyed him in the 80's. Oh well…
 
@Trowski I only learned to appreciate them when I watched them with a group of people who enjoyed them
@Danack wait, who suggested this?
 
@Trowski Allegedly The Disaster Artist (2017) is ok. :)
 
8:06 PM
@Tpojka Well its a movie about a terrible movie, so its different.
 
-(-x) :D
 
Thanks for the long comment, because that explains everything :P
 
What's that second word/acronym?
 
Organization?
 
No, I meant in the screenshot
Ohh wait, I am dumb
 
:P
 
9:06 PM
good lord
> Local Self-Government Bodies of the Department of the Ministry
department of redudancy
 
department of everything and nothing at the same time
 
in the tomsk region though
 
Yeah. they definitely wanted to make that clear
 
10:09 PM
A wild @Fabor appears! :P
 
lies.
 
Truths
 
IT'S ALIVE!!!! MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA
 
Hey Chris. How goes it?
 
\o/ it's Fabsome
 
10:13 PM
not bad, though I am unimpressed at your lack of response to my gtalk
glares in antisocial
 
:3. Google Talk
Hey Ekin
/me checks gmail
2 new messages :X. Whoops. It's so small and in the corner. How am I supposed to notice this heh
 
...by having an android phone and getting push notifications? :-P
 
I got too many hot singles in my area ones so I turned notifications off :P
You can always reach me through Ekin or Pieter too these days heh
Preferably Ekin for obvious reasons
 
how do you find hot singles in your area then??
 
Very Japanese
 
10:19 PM
@Fabor :D
 
10:32 PM
yo @Fabor long time no see :D
 
Hey @mega6382 How you been?
 
great, wby?
 
"wby" looks so why like "why" :-P
also... clearly wbu
 
Not bad. Living in Tokyo now. Have been for the last year.
 
lol, yeah wbu is better, far better.
 
10:37 PM
hbu is the normal I think but the best is uwu
 
Too many sensible answers in that game. Didn't encourage outside the box thinking :P
 
@Fabor oh that's really cool, I would like to visit Japan someday soon.
 
@mega6382 Soon may be a little tough.
 
:D like throwing your mate into a giant hole, right
 
10:40 PM
Yeah, very very tough indeed.
 
Could be a pile of gold in the hole.
 
you say that because you're the only other survivor other than @PeeHaa :-P
 
The others were just not worthy
 
@Ekin nepotism
 
detected, indeedy
 
10:58 PM
@Fabor :O
 
Hey @Tiffany how are you? :)
 
so I bought a physical copy of Patrick's book, Fabor's quote is on the back
and Sean's
 
I'm famous. :P
 
@Fabor doing better lately :) new job
kind of funny, it says "-Fabien Oram, Senior Developer (UK)"
 
Yeah been a while since I wrote that :P
 
11:04 PM
@Tiffany Wasn't he in Vietnam(i think) then though?
 
Things changed a lot over 4 years I guess heh
 
wasn't the book released in like 2018 or late 2017?
 
does it matter? :P
also, that's kind of what's funny
 
Hello
 
11:21 PM
Larry King died :(
 

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