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12:20 AM
@Girgias what exactly are you aiming to achieve?
 
@Girgias you need to check the silencing live range in the ZEND_HANDLE_EXCEPTION, and compare it against the location of the opline_before_exception
but that's only half the story
the main issue is that opcodes may do some cleanup of variables subsequent opcodes do rely on, if an exception was thrown
 
@hakre No, it's an issue with the pecl installer - nothing I can do about it (and there is an issue somewhere already)
 
@Girgias so you're going to need to compare at these cleanup-locations (guarded by if (EG(exception)) or a branch containing HANDLE_EXCEPTION()) whether cleanup shall be done (so that it can continue at opcode+1) afterwards
 
@makadev One of the reasons I do company support via invoice....
 
12:33 AM
@Girgias for live_ranges, a simple iteration should do the trick (live_range[i].var & ZEND_LIVE_MASK) == ZEND_LIVE_SILENCE and compare the start/end.
the live_ranges for silence are really just "from opcode X to opcode Y the silence operator is active" (this is currently needed for proper cleanup in exceptions: heap.space/xref/php-src/Zend/zend_execute.c?r=841b00f6#3908)
 
 
2 hours later…
2:12 AM
@MarkR There can be multiple schedulers within an application. A long running, entirely async app would probably be best kept to a single scheduler though. However, the scheduler approach makes it easier to libraries to integrate async into code designed for FPM apps.
 
Wes
2:34 AM
HELL YEAH
managed to find a solution to something
is there some fancy way to "yield new Ctor()" ?
will probably wrap it in a function or something
or maybe yield Ctor::new()
 
3:21 AM
Error when make ・ Compile Failure ・ #80474
 
3:33 AM
Soo.. updated PHPStorm and my php-7.4 dev container (XDebug 3), now debugging doesn't work anymore with Xdebug: [Step Debug] Could not connect to debugging client., anyone have a hint on what that might be?
 
Wes
4:15 AM
I HAZ AMPHP
 
5:04 AM
JIT - "Undefined variable" errors ・ Unknown/Other Function ・ #80475
 
Wes
how do i fix this?
 
5:23 AM
@Wes Looks like a bug to me? Have you looked at bug reports for this area?
 
Hello, I am working on share YT video and Image ONLY from post content: stackoverflow.com/questions/65096273/…
 
Wes
5:46 AM
i'm not sure, there's a bunch open though
 
 
1 hour later…
6:57 AM
hi Team,
can anyone suggest this ticket,
 
Asking for new feature : SplFileInfo->getMIMEType() ・ Filesystem function related ・ #80476
 
Hi Team,
Can anyone please suggest this ticket:
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/64021936/how-to-handle-error-checking-in-phpexcel-code
This is urgent , can anyone please suggest
 
7:26 AM
hi brothers,
Need a quick suggestions from u guys
 
morns
 
7:43 AM
@Muthusamy please STOP this flood
 
Wes
7:58 AM
why do you think the fourth time you posted it will be more visible of the first one? you are literally the only one posting here right now
 
8:33 AM
2nd argument should be count not num ・ Unknown/Other Function ・ #80477
 
user14596741
8:57 AM
Hi guys anybody here?
 
Maybe ^^
 
user14596741
@IluTov where can i find github official Identicon algorithm?
Although found alot of algorithm for Identicon, I need github official one?
Anybody knows?
 
@edward I didn't even know what that was. I'd have to Google and but that's not more than you could do ^^
 
user14596741
I didnt found official one, but some people told they forked it from official , but i didnt found original
 
9:12 AM
@edward Maybe there just is no official implementation in PHP
 
user14596741
no I want in any langauge implemenation, just wanted to see official implementation
 
user14596741
I've found some people talking that it is not made public
 
@edward As mentioned, I have no clue, sorry.
 
user14596741
ok thank you. I should ask question :)
 
user14596741
bye
 
9:23 AM
@Crell Any specific reasons why we want to disallow static methods on enums (not enum cases)?
 
@Crell I also think ReflectionEnum and ReflectionEnumCase should be subclasses of ReflectionClass (since they are just classes). Also, ReflectionEnumCase instead of ReflectionEnumObject :)
 
10:02 AM
doc.php.net/tutorial is this link dead?
also, mornings
 
Mornings
 
@Crell I'm also not sure we need some of the reflection methods. getCase/getCases will return exactly the same as getConstant/getConstants. getEnum() will return the same as getParentClass().
 
10:47 AM
@Muthusamy please don't spam asking for help.
5 messages moved to Trash can
 
cmb
11:07 AM
@Ekin hmm, http:// works; not sure if the site support https at all :/
 
oh wow it sure does, I thought I did try that as well
 
@Ekin you probably did, it was down before
 
ah cool, at least I know I'm not crazy :-)
 
^^
 
Apache wasn't running. I started the service again, so doc(s).php.net should be fine now. Also, https was never set up.
 
11:17 AM
I see, thank you!
 
@NikiC I went ahead and opened a pr on web-gcov in case everything else turns out to suck too much.
 
@user3942918 uh, how did you determine that's the problem?
I thought 7.4 upwards don't even build on gcov anymore
Unfortunately there don't even seem to be build logs
 
as far as I could tell they built but the lack of coverage data (due to no tests being run) confused the site
i could be completely wrong about that, but my change is needed to run tests either way if the build is busted and gets fixed
 
@user3942918 Well, I guess we could give it a try and see. We should keep support for old PHP versions though, it's really the only reason why that server is still running currently
 
11:32 AM
tbh I don't see how useful coverage data is for anything but master.. only reason I left 7.4 and 8.0 in was because they can ride free with no extra work
 
@user3942918 coverage data in general is pretty useless... The main useful part of gcov was running tests under valgrind. Though to be fair I haven't looked at those results for old branches in ... years?
 
the big thing I'd eventually like to play with having that box do is provide "covered-by" info to run targeted tests for quick feedback on PRs etc.
 
11:51 AM
@user3942918 Pretty sure the build fails on ./config.nice > /dev/null
Errors during the configure stage are not included in the build log
And PHP 7.4 is not going to configure on centos 5 without some major effort, because of insufficient pkg-config support
And just piping that into php_build.log won't help as the results of the log are parsed...
so yeah, pretty sure that changing the coverage generation will not help there
 
that's a shame
 
Would need to update the OS to make this feasible, and the prospect of that is why we gave up on that server in the first place
 
what's the problem with updating the os?
 
Someone has to do it :D
 
how awful
 
12:15 PM
'Day.
\o
 
12:26 PM
@NikiC wiki.php.net/systems/nex2 claims it's centos 6
 
12:38 PM
@NikiC ~12 months ago I was looking at some of the configure stuff, and you mentioned about minimum base being an old ubuntu. is there any absolute "we support X, Y, Z distros, older than that and you're SOL"?
 
12:55 PM
@NikiC ah thank you, that piece is new i suppose
 
exif_read_data(php80D2.tmp): Process tag(xE6FA=UndefinedTag): Illegal format ・ EXIF related ・ #80478
 
1:10 PM
Morning, room!
 
sup
 
1:27 PM
Exception code is defaulted (apparently) to integer zero, but not documented ・ Documentation problem ・ #80479
 
1:39 PM
@Crell I've created a new milestone on GtiHub for the enum RFC so we can track the issues somewhere.
 
@NikiC Oh FFS, I'll try to work on that ASAP
@bwoebi @bwoebi right, I didn't know if I could use the live ranges, that's why I was trying to mimic a "try/catch" block semantics, from my understanding the return value is not cleaned up by the OPCode anymore since PHP 7.1, which is what I would need I imagine
But I'll have a look at that
 
2:26 PM
Morning @Stephen & @DaveRandom
 
Good Afternoon Room :)
 
Segmentation fault with opcache enabled ・ opcache ・ #80480
 
@Stephen Are you wondering about changing something for 8.1 or something?
 
2:41 PM
I am worrying about if database normalization is always the best thing to do.. can you give me an advice?

Suppose I have a table like this that stores "comments": `comment(id, text, reply_id)`, splitting it into two tables `comment(id, text)` `replies(id, reply_id)` would make the database more neat, but what about when coming to the code?
Because I don't think it's really 'good' running 30+ queries on each page
 
@yessure What about replies to replies?
 
recursion!
 
Why not split those out?
 
comment should think of parent_(comment)_id
 
There's rarely any reason to execute 30+ queries in a single web request. You probably are doing something wrong in your PHP code if you have to call the database so many times
 
2:45 PM
@Dharman I am not doing it, but if I had to follow someone's suggestion.. this would be the result
so.. there are some things that shouldn't be split?
 
@yessure couple of things - i) you should probably buy this book: amazon.co.uk/SQL-Antipatterns-Programming-Pragmatic-Programmers/… ...let me find a link to a particular bit of it.
2
 
I don't think this is a question about your schema. It's rather a question of how you execute SQL to get these results
 
here are slide version of that book: slideshare.net/billkarwin/sql-antipatterns-strike-back
 
@Danack I'll take a read, thank you!
 
You should read slides 48-77 - it covers storing comments and replies, and there is a particular technique for doing so, that makes storing them be performant.
in particular, being able to query by comment, and grabbing all replies to that comment in a single query, and inserts are also cheap.
@Dharman you've never used a CMS..... drupal can easily have a few hundred queries per page request, and that's just the nature of some content driven sites.
 
2:56 PM
@Girgias the retval isn't… but other intermediary info may (most is handled by live range though)
 
@bwoebi Right, I'll see if I need to handle that
 
@LeviMorrison the configure could be improved for a number of libs I believe, if a newer “base” was agreed upon
 
currently trying to figure out if yes or no I need a COVID-19 test to go back to France
 
@Stephen I imagine the oldest OS is CentOS 7.
 
Essentially libs that have better pkg-config support in more recent releases of $distro
 
I did
But I'm very confused
The thing is, I'm not a French national, but my mum (German national) lives in France and I'm currently in the UK
So pretty complicated situation and I'm getting conflicting infos
 
he indeed
@Girgias there is a contact phone number at end of that document, might be better if you mom calls if you are not fluent in french
but might be better to get concrete information
 
My mum is fluent it's just it's my job to figure stuff out lol
Huh I tried calling that but it errored before let me try again
Ah yes my phone is shutting invalid number
 
3:16 PM
hmm, provider not allowing international calls?
 
it's a french sim card
 
@Girgias is it hard to get a test in UK right now? the rules are changing so often, maybe its just better to have one anyways
 
3:35 PM
@beberlei My university does provide some, but from my udnerstanding I don't need one but better to double check, also to know what other paperwork I need to have on me
 
4:24 PM
Today feels like it should be Friday
 
If only
I want payday so I can go piano shopping
 
@MarkR real piano or electronic?
 
@Danack Electric
I'm still only a novice, but my 10+ year old argos Yamaha E304 is terribad, so I'm thinking of investing in something nice, like a P515 or a Clavinova 745
If you have recommendations I'm all ears
 
Nah - was going to say, if it's a real piano you want, then they are very cheap from house clearances.
 
I'd eventually love a proper acoustic, but trying to move it through the house into my office would probably destroy it =\
By the way, did you happen to feel the explosion in bristol earlier?
 
4:39 PM
@Danack I have seen a handful of videos on the nullsafe operator and not one of them describes short circuiting accurately. Now I wonder if short circuiting is actually the least surprising result.
 
4:51 PM
@IluTov I do think it we should have called it 'null short circuit', rather than null-safe. But are these also the users who think that union types are a bad idea?
 
@Danack I don't know. I just think it's funny everybody hypes the feature not really knowing how it works.
 
.....so exactly the same as Jit then.
 
badum tish
Related: Thanks to Fibres, JIT may soon lose its crown as the most voted for RFC that almost no-one who reads it fully understands.
 
@IluTov I've said it before, but I'll say it again. One of the biggest problems that PHP has is that the vast majority of people who use it, are kind of bad programmers.
 
Pathetically incomplete documentation about huge bc-breaking change ・ Documentation problem ・ #80481
 
5:03 PM
@Jeeves 🙄
"PRs welcome"
 
5:19 PM
"Dear entitled asshole, …"
 
just seems like a troll to me
 
@mega6382 An arsehole. Small difference from trolling. also, spanish: twitter.com/php4fan/status/1247293470043226118
Alternative email address for same person: bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=76674
 
They're just frustrated because they can't use php 4
 
5:35 PM
@Jeeves -> Spam
 
lol
 
apparently from madrid - www sexomercadomadrid com/php4fan-teo-u42603.html nsfw link .
 
Hmm, not suspicious domain name at all
 
@MarkR Any questions I can answer? I'm doing my best to make it understandable, lol
 
Undocumented behavior of array_walk with objects ・ Documentation problem ・ #80482
 
5:46 PM
It's so complicated, many developers I speak to don't really understand generators, so I'm not holding out a lot of hope for fibers. On the plus side, my objective is to hide fibers from your average PHP developer.
 
@Trowski obviously free world and everything, but can we have that call tomorrow around this time, before sending it to the list? aka, I don't think it's in a state that people will understand...or at least I don't, and I can only extrapolate from myself...
 
@Danack That would work. I'd love suggestions on making it more clear. At this point I'm not sure what I could do other than drop the whole FiberScheduler thing, but that exists for interop and avoiding boilerplate in every project that uses fibers.
 
@Trowski It's a lot to take in... at 31 pages, literally a lot.
 
I have a mysql php project on a local host and I want to give my customer it on his local machine but I am afraid from redistributing my project how to preventing my project from copying?
 
@MarkR 31 pages? How are you obtaining that number?
 
5:50 PM
@Trowski I pasted it into Google docs, MS word only has it at 24 pages
 
@MarkR Ok, makes sense. Probably 2/3 of that is code examples, so… :)
 
True, although I suspect the code samples are the only way most of us mortals will be able to begin to understand it :P
 
Good point. Is the first example now simple enough to understand the basic concept of suspending and resuming?
 
6:03 PM
@Trowski How would multiple schedulers interact? I'm assuming that a scheduler that knows how to handle waiting on stream IO would be different to one that say, waits for a file to exist by checking in a loop?
 
@MarkR Using multiple schedules results in the currently running scheduler blocking any other scheduler from running until it has resumed a fiber that returns to on of the prior schedulers. In a FPM, that's probably fine as I'm envisioning only a small amount of concurrency where the other scheduler probably has finished it's tasks anyway.
A purely async app would probably want to avoid using multiple schedulers. This is true now, as I can't switch between using Amp and Guzzle for HTTP requests without Guzzle blocking Amp's loop.
 
So I could, for example, execute several SQL queries at once, but if I wanted to execute an SQL query + a HTTP request it would be sequential ?
 
@MarkR If you used libraries that used a different schedulers, yes. If you were to use Amp for both the SQL query and HTTP request, then they would be concurrent.
Perhaps there would eventually be a PSR for a scheduler API.
 
God I hope not
 
Hehe, yeah, PSRs have their own issues.
What I'm hoping is that Amp essentially becomes a defacto standard. We have libs for essentially everything you need to write an async app.
 
6:16 PM
It's probably a missunderstanding on my side, but any particular reason the Scheduler has to be use'd into the callback scope rather than being passed as an arg?
 
@JukEboX yo
 
@DaveRandom yo.
@DaveRandom down to help me hit my head against this wall some more?
 
sure :-P I only just got in from driving around all day tho so maybe in like an hour?
need to eat/shower etc
 
@MarkR It could be passed as a second argument, yes. Though the callback doesn't always use the scheduler directly.
Wouldn't hurt to pass it as an argument I guess.
 
@DaveRandom yeah no problem. I am here another 5 hours
 
6:21 PM
@JukEboX kk I'll ping you in here in a bit
 
Cool no problme
 
@MarkR Short closures make this somewhat unnecessary though. Obviously the code has the scheduler available when calling Fiber::suspend().
 
@MarkR I was going to say something to that.....@trowski I think having an alternative 'easier to understand' api, as well as the one that you want would make it easier for people to vote yes.
 
Agreed. I also think it's much more likely to pass if you dump the entire future scope into the current scope
 
surely that would be a job for userland? :-/
maybe a userland wrapper lib could be presented along side it?
 
6:28 PM
@MarkR You mean the suspend keyword?
 
@DaveRandom that's the bit no-one will understand.
s/one of/
 
why not? it should be presented as a black box, at least in terms of the API
 
aka presenting it as it will be used for Amphp is complicated.
 
@Danack That's… not really possible.
 
@Danack yeh but this theoretical "easier to understand API" surely would not require amp?
 
6:31 PM
@DaveRandom my brain has checked out for the next few hours..... but even the simple examples are not trivial to understand in github.com/trowski/fiber-rfc/blob/master/rfc.md
 
yeh, it's not a trivial feature :-P
 
This isn't a trivial feature.
 
Something else that comes to mind is, so far as I can see, the loss of type information when using Fiber::suspend(), how would you forsee expressing the return type of it?
 
@MarkR It's mixed. Think of it like yield.
 
@DaveRandom I promise @Trowski did not tell me to say this :-P
 
6:35 PM
Or maybe I did, and he just doesn't know it.
 
I mean I suppose you indirectly did, by building a non-trivial feature and then explaining it to me :-P
btw @Danack the original "bristol job" from like 6mths ago or whatever... just got word today they want me to do 12 more buildings in Liverpool before the end of Jan... I think I am going to end up visiting every building in Liverpool before I'm done
 
For the stream example, I'm struggling to see where the extra deferCallbacks get populated from, specifically why $timeout won't always be 0 because all the deferCallbacks got unset immediately before select() was called.
 
@MarkR A defer callback might add another defer callback.
Remember that foreach copies the array before iteration.
I could make that explicit, it would probably be easier to understand.
 
6:58 PM
I would say it's would be good to make everything that relies on copy semantics explicit there, especially some code around select() calls can be very not obvious
 
@DaveRandom Agreed. Pushed an update just now.
 
not looking at anything specific atm btw
 
7:10 PM
@Trowski Would you be willing to add something more akin to a trace to it? Rather than just the "waiting for data, writing, received... " etc instead print every section of code that is being called and the order?
 
@MarkR I was considering representing that graphically. Wonder if I could pass 50 pages :-P
 
@Danack that water treatment plant that exploded is about 100m from where I was working the other week :-S
 
@Trowski Can pass 150 for all I care so long as I know what I'm voting for when I click the button :P
 
...and therein lies the problem of this RFC, it takes quite a lot of lived experience to actually understand async stuff and especially primitives like this, I don't know that many people will actually understand what they are voting for :-/
many people outside #11 regulars, anyway
 
@DaveRandom I tried to tell people here the same and got shot down
:)
 
7:20 PM
@DaveRandom I've wondered if instead I should go for the Ruby-style API and drop FiberScheduler, but that API is strictly worse in actual usage.
Really it's only advantage is that it's easier to understand.
 
ftr I am not saying that is a problem with the RFC or the feature, nor do I think it's a solvable problem
 
@DaveRandom All the same
 
@DaveRandom Graphically showing the code path for the first few examples might help.
 
@Trowski can you write a userland wrapper to expose that API?
 
Beyond anything trivial the code path becomes hopelessly complex.
 
7:21 PM
53 mins ago, by DaveRandom
maybe a userland wrapper lib could be presented along side it?
that's what I meant by that ^^
if it's possible to do
the core API obviously should be the "best available" but if a userland lib could be used to illustrate the feature better, I don't see why that is wrong
 
@DaveRandom Yes, but if you thought the first couple examples where hard to understand.
 
yeh but the whole point is that the lib is a black box
 
"Here's a complex API, and then a huge library to make it simple!"
Yeah… no.
 
no, no. We need to dig up!
 
Yeh I know but also isn't that exactly what all most libraries are?
:-P
ffs I have had "call me maybe" stuck in my head for like 3 days
 
7:25 PM
In essence. I'm already doing this by saying here's a complex core API that you won't actually use because you'll actually use something wrapping it (probably Amp).
 
listening to it does not help
 
@DaveRandom my family used to live quite near Avonmouth....we used to joke about waiting for it to go up one day.
 
the pics I have seen look pretty insane, pressure vessel that size don't rupture without major over-pressure
 
@DaveRandom this might make it better, or might make it worse: youtube.com/watch?v=5Lm1FL7gWl4
 
neiked/sexual works for a while, but only in that it temporarily replaces it
idk what deal is with all the girl pop
 
7:27 PM
@DaveRandom waste water treatment. I'm guessing build up of methane or other explodable gases. One witness claims they heard a 'whoosh' in the seconds before the explosion.
 
youtube.com/watch?v=Fegs-XVKgnM Quite a fan of that version
 
@Trowski I wish I had something to bring to this table :-/ I don't like pointing out problems without also suggesting solutions
I just don't have anything though
@MarkR yeh that is good
 
I guess my biggest argument against a simpler API is that mere mortal developers still won't use it, a library is still going to have to wrap it to do anything useful, but now with a bunch of boilerplate.
 
the other earworm I have had lately is open.spotify.com/track/… - I'd not heard it for like 15 years then it was on the radio a couple weeks ago, and now has a play count of 28 on my spotify :-P
@Trowski I 100% buy that argument as well, ftr
 
@DaveRandom I should bold that in the RFC I think.
 
7:31 PM
yeh maybe
@Danack can't find any actual concrete info yet (unsurprisingly)
there will be CCTV footage though probably
 
Or at least state it more plainly like that. I think I dance around that point.
 
@DaveRandom something that actually may be a palette cleanser - youtube.com/watch?v=0rpdTY85LP0
 
I just watched CCTV of the satellite collapse, crazy stuff - youtube.com/watch?v=wlVFHxqzUdc
 
@Danack tune
@MarkR I always wondered how that thing stayed up tbh
 
@MarkR Whoa, I hadn't seen that had collapsed. Wonder what triggered it.
 
7:35 PM
a real shame, but also I think the arecibo installation had lived it's life at this point, stuff like the vla has obsoleted static installations like that
a world heritage site in the making though :-/
 
Yeah… true. So it's just the end of Goldeneye, but IRL.
 
@Trowski I don't know, but the way those pillars were secured with no lateral braces... it's amazing it stayed up that long
I fell down a massive wiki hole on arecibo a few years ago
insane piece of engineering though
building a parabolic dish into a hillside
 
@Trowski lack of funds for maintenance, and a hurricane that damaged it. Got to be pretty embarrassing for the government of that country to be shown to be so incompetent.
 
also can no long re-enact the end of goldeneye :-/
oh @Trowski already said that :-P
 
@Danack That country :-P Quite honestly, lack of maintenance on an observatory is somewhat far down the list.
 
7:39 PM
^
I live about 10 miles from Jodrell Bank, have been there many times, and that thing would collapse in a week if people stopped maintaining it
it's insanely fragile, the steel structure has well over a foot over movement in it just from changing the azimuth of the dish
and I have taken a bunch of LSD and danced naked under it :-P
(many years ago)
 
I see that a couple other supports had broke and they decommissioned the observatory and planned to demolish it anyway.
So it's not like some guy was listening for aliens while eating a burrito and had a hell of a surprise.
 
yeh it was out of service, but it would have been nice not to smash up the parabola at least :-P
@Trowski until a couple of years ago, there was a guy stationed at arecibo whose entire job, 100% of it, was to measure the distance to the moon with millimeter accuracy
like all day every day, searching for any slight deviation from relativistic gravitation
(the guy still has his job he just does it somewhere else, afaik :-P)
 
@DaveRandom When your entire job sounds like it could be replaced by 20 lines of code.
 
yeh he also does like a bunch of analysis and talks to people about it, presumably he's basically just a dev :-P
it was one specific guy though, I saw an interview with him from about 2015
will try and find it but no idea where I saw it
 
@DaveRandom saw that once from train! Epic.
 
7:46 PM
I'm sure there's a lot more to it. On the surface it sounds like his biggest job is making sure no one finds out that he wrote a program 20 years ago and now spends all day on reddit.
naic.edu/ao/job-openings They may want to update their job openings. I'm guessing that "Telescope Maintenance Supervisor" is no longer available.
 
@Trowski that opening must be new: they just fired the last guy
 
I probably shouldn't make fun. It is genuinely sad.
 
Yeah :(
 
@AndrasDeak it's really impressive to stand underneath, not least because it occasionally just randomly makes a really loud bang/creak while the structure settles
 
Or they're also hiring for a job openings updater and have no other way to tell you
 
7:51 PM
@DaveRandom Only saw it from afar :( I was staring out the train's window when I noticed it. When I got home I stalked my train trip on google maps and found it.
I didn't know what it was
 
@AndrasDeak it's weird, considering how big it is you can't see it from far away in most directions, the land where it sits is very flat so just one tree or a tiny little bump of a hill will obsure it
it's been a bit of a pita for me lately actually, I have a customer quite near it and there's a 5 mile exclusion zone for microwave sources around it, which has meant they've had to fork out £20K for underground ducting between buildings when I have line of sight
 
One accidental tear in the EM shielding... and science suddenly discovers aliens are broadcasting rebecca black across the entire cosmos
 
I'd buy that
 
8:42 PM
user image
3
 
@Tpojka I don't know why I like this so much because it makes no sense, but I related to this so much
 
rare sighting of a SFW oglaf strip
 
@DaveRandom \o
 
@MarkR there was a physical anomaly that ended up being caused by an old microwave that people didn't bother to stop before retrieving their lunches
 
I remember reading about it
 
8:52 PM
I think it might have also been radio astronomy, not sure
 
9:04 PM
@MarkR here it is with 20 more pixels by the way youtube.com/watch?v=ssHkMWcGat4
 
damn, multi angle
turned just in time
 
@Tpojka Source?
 
@LeviMorrison otherwise very very nsfw comic: oglaf.com/caw
 
Oh, thanks for the warning.
 
@LeviMorrison Laugh topic on some domestic forums.
@AndrasDeak Thanks.
 
9:23 PM
hello
 
Wes
i.stack.imgur.com/EktEB.png i hate client side stuff
 
10:03 PM
huhu
 
@Girgias @cmb github.com/php/doc-en/pull/267 - Moar update PRs for the list.
 
@Crell I'm indecisive, I think we should allow all magic methods (unless there are technical issues) or none. Any reason we disallow constructors (with no params) or deconstructors but allow serialize/unserialize?
I feel like the distinction is slightly arbitrary atm.
 
Mostly because I could think of ways that some could cause problems, but couldn't think of ways that others could cause problems.
Serialization seems like it's an important question, so better to not cut it off. I didn't think about it beyond that, really.
 
> __construct(), __destruct(), __call(), __callStatic(), __get(), __set(), __isset(), __unset(), __sleep(), __wakeup(), __serialize(), __unserialize(), __toString(), __invoke(), __set_state(), __clone() and __debugInfo()
Pretty much all of those make me a feel of "oh you should rather not" ^^
 
10:19 PM
I need some suggestion I trying to fix a bug,
I picked this
https://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=74371&edit=3

and now I debugging to understand where is the problem... I think that the problem it's with the case '>' because the in_q variable has the value of the first position of the quote (") and when it meets this ">" skip with a "break" so no pushes the character to the output buffer
but I did not understand this "if"

https://github.com/php/php-src/blob/php-7.0.0/ext/standard/string.c#L4708
that it's repeated more times
 
@IluTov What's scary about __call, __[un]serialize, __invoke?
 
@BruceStackOverFlow You're braver than I am for sure ^^ Unfortunately, fixing such old methods results in a BC break of applications that rely on broken behavior.
@Crell What's the point of serialize/unserialize when you can't actually store any state on the object? __call and __invoke are fine.
 
@IluTov Valid point. But what happens if you do serialize([Suit::Hearts, Suit::Diamonds]) ?
 
@IluTov So tell me that I'm wasting my time?
 
10:23 PM
@Crell a:2:{i:0;O:12:"Suit::Hearts":0:{}i:1;O:14:"Suit::Diamonds":0:{}} Serialization works by default
 
I give up or I choices another bug?
For security, I filter the bug list with a status flag
Verified....
 
@BruceStackOverFlow fyi there seems to be a PR for that issue: github.com/php/php-src/pull/3570
 
@BruceStackOverFlow Well, I would think there would be some controversy. But then again we changed the broken string to number comparison in 8.0 almost unanimously. So maybe not.
 
So I thought that was In my knowledge
@NikiC uh yes
I wrong because I use an internal PHP site so for the next time I start from the Github issues
 
@IluTov Oh, well, that's nice of it. So then I guess it's just call and invoke that make sense to keep? With the possibility of adding others in the future if it makes sense once we get to ADTs.
 
10:32 PM
btw the code it's very difficult to read (not for the c or the macro but the structure)
 
I'm undecided about __toString I guess. I go back and forth.
 
Ok thanks, guys :-)
 
@Crell That would make sense. Almost all other methods are about state which we don't have.
 
I also have __get listed right now; I don't know if that makes sense or not.
Like, that's state, but not. :-) It could easily be used for virtual properties about an enum, much like methods. But I don't know if that's asking for trouble and we should say "just make a damned method like a normal person."
 
@Crell I think your suggestion (disallow everything except what makes sense) is reasonable. We can always allow it later. And we'll see if there's backlash for disallowing it.
 
10:35 PM
__get() does not have inherent state
 
@DaveRandom Neither does __set, __unset, __isset but that's what they are meant for / strongly associated with.
 
I search bug for PHP 8 :-)
I wish to support the PHP community and return back to develop for the hobby in c
 
@BruceStackOverFlow And we very much appreciate it! It's just a big and complex system so it's not always obvious what the low-hanging fruit is.
 
@BruceStackOverFlow That's great :) Thank you! It can be hard at first, don't hesitate to ask questions here.
 
Well :-)
 
10:42 PM
@NikiC Are you looking into this? bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=80374 If not I am going to request more information. I can't reproduce it
 
@IluTov "inherent:
They are accessors, they don't have state, they facilitate access to it
s/don't/shouldn't/
 
@DaveRandom Sure, you could at least say the same about isset. But since enums don't have additional state there's nothing to facilitate access to.
 
Hmm
 
It would effectively be an alternate way to do methods that return static values.
 
Unsure about that argument, brb thinking time :-P
Hmmm
 
10:46 PM
enum Suit {
  case Hearts {
    public function __get($param) {
        return match($param) {
            'color' => 'Red',
        };
    }
  }
}
Which would allow you to do Suit::Hearts->color instead of Suit::Hearts->color().
Also, hey, look, another place where match() is a nice fit. :-)
 
I guess the only real question in that case it whether it performs the same.
 
The last time I ran benchmarks, __get() was slower than a method call but not by a lot, IIRC. But that was in the PHP 5 days so who knows what it is now.
 
Historically fcall has been meaningfully more expensive than ht lookup
 
I should really redo those microbenches...
Yes, but __get is a function call. Or, was.
 
I am too tired to have valid opinions, ask me again tomorrow :-P
 
10:54 PM
@IluTov Updated the RFC to only allow __get, __call, and __invoke for now.
 
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