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12:00 AM
@Crell E_TOO_MANY_WORDS
 
12:10 AM
"Adding the fibers to PHP core would allow the engine to finish executing fiber schedulers after registered shutdown functions are invoked." - Explain why this is a good thing, because I'm used to shutdown functions being only marginally functional to begin with.
@Trowski If you ever get there, I'd suggest not using async/await keywords for fibers. It would be too confusing for people who expect them to behave like JS.
 
@Crell I've got to think about that more too. I'm honestly not sure it matters enough to be in the RFC.
@Crell No, that would be reserved for when there was a promise-like object and event loop in core.
 
Rich black, in printing, is an ink mixture of solid black over one or more of the other CMYK colors, resulting in a darker tone than black ink alone generates in a printing process. A typical rich black mixture might be 100% black, 50% of each of the other three inks. Other percentages are used to achieve specific results, for example 100% black with 70% cyan (C), 35% magenta (M), and 40% yellow (Y) is used to achieve "cool" black. "Warm Black" is 35%C, 60%M, 60%Y, and 100%K. The colored ink under the black ink makes a "richer" result; the additional inks absorb more light, resulting in a closer...
TIL. also, I dislike CMYK and color profiles.
 
@Crell I was thinking of adding a suspend keyword to future scope
@Danack Interesting. I have noticed in the past my printer lays down some CMY in black areas. Now I know why.
 
@Trowski Oh that syntax confuses the crap out of me.
 
@Danack I too hate CMYK. I've found the paper makes more difference than anything, and have never had much luck using a color profile out of the box. I usually have to do a few tests prints to find a result I'm happy with – sometimes tweaking the photo just for printing.
 
12:22 AM
@Trowski In the examples, is Loop special, or is that the demo scheduler instance? That's not at all clear.
 
@Crell Nothing thrilled me. I was hoping to avoid declaring a closure just to run it instantly though. suspend as $fiber { … } to $scheduler; :-P Not sure if that's even possible.
 
You also introduce a delay() function in the examples. That comes out of nowhere and just serves to confuse me more.
 
Since the feature is not really targeted at end users, burning a keyword for something buried in library code seems unnecessary.
@Crell Oh yes, I don't introduce it until the next example in the context of Amp. I meant to replace delay in the second example with that of the first.
@Crell Loop is the demo scheduler instance. I'll have to make that more clear by calling it out by name.
 
I would implore you to plan ahead to when the API is used by more than just you 3 async nerds. Assume that it will eventually be something common people use, and design the API accordingly.
 
@Crell The API was chosen to allow interoperability between libraries declaring different FiberSchedulers. If we used a Ruby-like API, then library-specific boilerplate would be required and a fiber could never use code from a library expecting different boilerplate.
 
12:30 AM
All these static calls on Loop/FiberScheduler make me sad. Why are some things static and some methods? It's not at all clear to me.
Examples that leverage function in Amp that are not defined in the RFC are not helpful. All these await() functions are just hiding all kinds of code that I want to see, because that's what I'm reviewing and voting on.
 
@Crell Can you point me to what you mean? There should be no static calls on Loop.
@Crell So links to definitions, or actually embed the code in the RFC?
Some are simple, though some then require more context, like what is a Promise in Amp?
 
Loop::repeat and Loop::unreference
Reached the end.
 
@Crell Oh, that's Amp's API. Perhaps it would be best to omit that from the RFC example, but leave it in the code example for people to run.
 
General comments: So... here's the problem that I see. There's two different APIs in here, mushed into one both in the implementation and in the RFC. One is the core Fiber <-> user-space FiberScheduler API. The other is the core Fiber <-> PHP developer writing something async-y API.
I cannot tell where one ends and other begins, in part because the examples are full of hand-waving about how some user-space library may choose to write an API on top of this but doesn't say how. The "how" is what I want to know, and that's simply not here.
The best I can guess is that I, as a mere common developer, need to pick a scheduler implementation and then call Fiber::suspend($callable, $instanceOfScheduler);

But I don't grok exactly what happens when I do, in part because that API is, I'm sorry, terrible. :(
 
@Crell What would make that clearer? More code examples of how Amp does it? The loop implementation in the ext-fiber tests is linked.
@Crell Open to suggestions here…
 
12:39 AM
You need to lead with examples. Like, "here's what you, mere user space developer, get out of this."
 
IMHO it takes a special kind of person to be able to understand fibers
Which is not a bad thing perse
 
@Crell More examples that you found meaningless?
 
No, new examples that are more meaningful. :-) An RFC is as much a sales pitch as a description.
*IF* I'm following correctly, then my inclination would be:

$value = $fiberScheduler->waitFor($callable);
And then $callable has to be something that doesn't block, but has async-y IO calls or whatever.
Like, assume for a moment that there exists an asyncSqlQuery() function. What do I do with that, using just the Fiber and FiberScheduler classes? That's what I still don't grok.
And that needs to be presented up-front at the top so that I have a context for what comes next. And what comes next needs to differentiate between the FiberScheduler-author API and the everyone-else API.
Or possibly $value = $schedu;er->waitFor(Fiber::create($callable)), though that seems unnecessary at that point.
 
@Crell If there's an asyncSqlQuery() function, you, as a user, just use it.
You don't need to touch Fiber and FiberScheduler.
 
OK, so how would I write asyncSqlQuery then? Since presumably there's no mysqli_query() call hiding inside it, since that's blocking.
 
12:44 AM
@PeeHaa Right… this is so hard to convey to people that aren't familiar with how async code works.
@Crell amphp/mysql is my short answer :-)
I can't put that in an RFC… it's too complex.
 
I'm still stuck on "if I'm not on the Amp or React core team, does this mean anything to me at all?" Because if not, then it's all just gibberish that doesn't help my day to day ability to write code.
 
@Trowski Yeah. And IMO it is fine
 
@Crell Here's a self-contained example using curl: github.com/amphp/ext-fiber/blob/master/examples/005-curl.php
@PeeHaa Unless they're voting no on your fiber RFC. :-P
 
You cannot make people understand a specific RFC without them going through the process of trying to understand how it works
@Trowski That's the case with several RFCs (for better or worse)
You cannot change that
 
I think @Crell is trying to understand that, and I want to figure out how to help him with that because I think a lot of people will have similar questions.
 
12:48 AM
I still think this:
Nov 18 at 16:27, by Danack
"do something one would consider useful." - I don't think that's the goal.....which I think should be to show how Fibers operate so people can understand them separate to other libraries.
 
@Crell It will help if you can use async code in normal PHP.
 
you're making a demo of how it would work for a real application. But the first example needs to be 'how does it work at all'.
 
/me is the ignorant guinea pig.
 
and also the api needs to support noddy examples, even if that bit won't be used for many actual applications.
@Crell I neither understand fibres, or the colour black apparently. The days going well.
 
I can understand the logic for making the scheduler pluggable. That part is acceptably convincing, I think.
At least until we get ev in core or similar.
 
12:51 AM
@Danack Is the first example a noddy-enough example?
@Crell Exactly. I'm glad I convinced you of that, because in my mind that's the biggest hurdle.
 
But if we assume a magical $demoScheduler variable... I still don't know what's happening after that other than "Amp has example code in it."
 
@Trowski No. The whole loop class is just too complex. I can see it's doing stuff that would be needed in a real application, but it just doesn't fit in my head.
 
(The argument for it could probably stand to be bolstered somewhat, but we can deal with that wordsmithing later.)
Like... if I call $foo = someAsyncSqlQuery()... is my code blocking at that point? I don't actually know right now. :-)
 
@Danack Ok, maybe if I made a really simple scheduler that just used stream select on a socket, including it right in the demo?
 
That would be very helpful.
 
12:55 AM
@Trowski Sounds like a good idea, I still might not get it. If you can, put everything in a single file as that makes it easier to read (I think), even though again people wouldn't do that in practice.
 
@Crell No, it would not be blocking.
You could have multiple fibers running someAsyncSqlQuery() simultaneously.
 
Then I have to be aware that there's async stuff happening in there, but somehow I don't have a promise to deal with.
Right, but I need to care for my function?
 
@Danack Sure, I think I could get that down to a couple dozen lines.
 
Unrelated naming question. So Imagick has a couple of constants. They are all of the pattern of TYPE_SUBTYPE e.g. Imagick::FILTER_LANCZOS. For a parameter namer for these, use filterType (or actually filter_type), would probably be a reasonable choice, right?
 
Here's an exercise I'd encourage you to try:

I have a list of URLs. I want to ping them all and see what their return code is. I want to do that in parallel/async/concurrently.

Write the *entire* implementation of that in a single file. Everything needed above what core would provide. Let's see what that looks like. And then we can refine that. Some parts will probably be ugly, but we can use that as a driver to show what should be baked in further, what should be explicitly kicked to userland, and what parts of the API are still no good.
 
12:57 AM
@Crell Yes, there's async in the background, but no promise. If you are running that in main, it will act sync. If you launch multiple fibers (which some API would disguise to you like threads), it would be async.
@Crell The curl example I linked you before does nearly exactly that.
I was thinking of dropping that in the RFC, though it is roughly 200 lines long.
 
yes yes.
Though the Promise class in there is confusing, because "isn't the whole point of fibers to not need promises?"
 
@Danack Just a few constants I see… Yes, I think filter_type seems a good choice.
 
ta. I still think this also:
Nov 18 at 16:42, by Danack
@Trowski what about doing something like, inside the docker container setup a couple of processing that create some unix sockets, and write some spoofed data to them every second. And then an example using sockets and stream_select would be relatively simple....presumably?
 
@Crell The async-y stuff under the hood usually uses promises, but doesn't expose them as part of the API.
 
So "Fibers are a translation layer to hide promises?" Or "Promises are one way one could implement a fiber scheduler, but there's 30 others?"
 
1:00 AM
@Danack I wrote that example, sort of, but still using that Loop implementation in ext-fiber. github.com/amphp/ext-fiber/blob/master/examples/004-sockets.php
I could make a very simple FiberScheduler that does just that, rather than the other capabilities.
@Crell Promises are mostly just a convenient way to schedule fiber resumes more than anything else. Promises are most definitely not needed. I eliminated them from some of the very basic ops in the fiber-compatible Amp libs.
 
I think this is inevitably going to involve the core API getting more functionality, and I'm OK with that. As long as it results in a more user-friendly API.
Great, so show an example that doesn't use them. Maybe just a while(true) loop over stream select. KISS.
 
@Crell Yep, sounds good.
 
Like, the end goal you seem to imply we can get to is this:

$codes = array_map('get_response_code', $list_of_urls);

Which I so so want. But I don't yet see how to get there from the RFC without going through "mumble mumble 5000 lines of Amp".
(Where that all happens concurrently rather than synchronously.)
 
@Crell But why should you care what Amp does, just know that this RFC can get you that array_map.
I guess at least a vague understanding of what Amp is doing is helpful, which I think that stream_select example would provide.
 
1) Because I would like to be able to do it without going through "which library do I pick that has more lines than I can possibly read"
2) Because for simple cases I'd like to be able to do it without an external library at all, eventually. And that means designing an API now that will still make sense and be usable in 4 years when there's a posix-thread fiber scheduler implementation baked into core alongside a non-blocking version of file_get_contents().
I'm thinking long term to where whatever is designed is used by more people than just the 3 leads of Amp, Guzzle, and React.
 
1:07 AM
@Crell 1) Because you always read an entire library's code before using it?
 
Also 3) If I ever decide to write my own FiberScheduler implementation for whatever reason, I want to know how to use the core API to do so sanely.
 
"fuzz_quantum_range_scaled_by_square_root_of_three" - now that's a parameter name.
 
@Trowski No, but for simple tasks I'd prefer to not need to pull in a large library. :-)
 
@Crell Sure, same here. This absolutely does not qualify.
 
If I'm writing get_response_code() to use there, right now I don't understand how I would write it.
 
1:11 AM
@Crell If there's a fiber scheduler implementation baked into core, you'll probably never have to touch Fiber::suspend again.
 
I have to go soon. I think we're circling on the key point, though.

1) The two sides of the API are very comingled, but not called out as such.
2) Very basic but complete examples are needed to make it clear what you would do with the extension, and when.
@Trowski Well that confuses me even more then. :-)
 
@Crell Without teaching you how event loops and async code really works under the hood, that's not something I can write in the RFC.
@Crell The async version of file_get_contents() would use it under the hood.
Just as our example of asyncSqlQuery() used Fiber::suspend under the hood. The end user doesn't use the Fiber API.
 
@Trowski So I'd use that as though it were sync. If under the hood there's only a single call, then it wouldn't actually be any different than today because there's just the one extra fiber waiting on IO. Right?
 
@Crell Yes, I agree, both of those points need to be improved and I believe I have direction for both.
 
How would I do something like, say, parallel generation of Drupal blocks? (Which each do non-trivial code plus non-trivial SQL queries and disk IO.)
 
1:16 AM
@Crell Yes, you'd use it as though it were sync. The only difference is from today is to benefit you'd need to have multiple fibers executing concurrently. The library providing the FiberScheduler will provide an API to do that easily.
 
@Trowski OK, that's part of the disconnect I think. My initial response is "wait, why wouldn't FiberScheduler provide that?"
 
@Crell You would need to do each generation in a separate fiber.
@Crell It does, but the API is up to the user code.
The RFC isn't dictating that.
 
@Trowski That's what I figured. So how would I kick off that fan-out?
You don't need to answer here; I have to go in a moment. But that's the kind of use case that I'd want to see addressed.
 
@Crell Well, I'll answer it here and you can review it when you have time. Thanks for the feedback!
 
Side note: I hope I'm not coming off too critical. I really do like the promise of fibers (no pun intended), and I am glad you're putting so much work into it. I just have a hard time wrapping my head around it, which means so will most people. And I want to make sure the API is something that, in a few years, can be used by we proletariat, not just by 3 library authors.
 
1:21 AM
@Crell Thanks, I really do appreciate your time here because I agree that I need to at least get the average RFC-voter to understand it well enough to see the potential. The API is geared so anyone willing to write a FiberScheduler could benefit. That scheduler could be added to core, and async-enabled functions added without the end user even having to deal with the Fiber API.
@Crell This example uses the functions async to create a new fiber and delay to async-sleep in that fiber for the given number of milliseconds.
The example doesn't use the Fiber API at all, which generally would be how I'd recommend library authors use fibers.
 
Though I still don't quite get how that looks to the end user when that happens. Like, if I never think about my IO functions being async, then my code blocks on the first time I call something that's going to wait on IO anyway. So somewhere would still need to have an equivalent of calling a go routine.
 
@Crell Yes. Think of it like running multiple threads and joining later, except not actual threads, but fibers.
Threading adds way more OS overhead and memory synchronization issues.
These are probably good statements to add to the RFC.
The example has 5000 ms of fiber sleeping going on, but the script will only take 2000 ms to execute because that's the longest sleep.
So now pretend instead of sleeping, the fibers were doing Drupally things.
 
Which is how I get to something like:

$scheduler->waitFor($callable);

foreach ($blocks as $b => $blockdef) {
$built[$b] = $scheduler->dontWatFor($blockdef->build());
}

Or whatever such nonsense. That's probably wrong but you get the idea.
And I gotta go pick up the gf from the operating table now. :-) Night folks.
 
@Crell That looks like an API where you're getting placeholders (promises) rather than actual results.
 
Could be. I have a hard time envisioning what the alternative is. That's probably part of my problem.
 
1:28 AM
@Crell Night, thanks again! Hope everything went well for your gf.
 
All I know from are promises and go routines, which both look kinda like that.
 
@Danack "Let's replace everything with just Javascript, because I'm a 22 year old genius who has just graduated from a JS bootcamp."
@Trowski Seems to have, but she's quite groggy. :-)
 
1:44 AM
@Danack lol
 
I just released PHP 7.4.14
Fuck this new fangled PHP 8 crap ;-)
 
sounds like legacy to me
 
YOUR MOM IS LEGACY
 
well maybe she is!
 
well, it's what she said last night ;-)
 
1:46 AM
...dad? :')
 
:D
 
37 mins ago, by Danack
"fuzz_quantum_range_scaled_by_square_root_of_three" - now that's a parameter name.
 
I'm just kidding. I've no idea who your mom is. She's probably lovely.
 
@Derick obviously ;)
 
1:48 AM
@Danack Does it do quantum computing?
 
hopefully not. quantum range is the mapping of 0 -> 255 to 0-> 2**16 if ImageMagick has been compiled with 16bit processing.
or maybe 0->1 ....
 
peculiar name
 
oh it's even better, it's actually fuzz_quantum_range_scaled_by_one_over_square_root_of_three
 
As long as it's not camelcase I'm happy
 
I like camels
 
1:56 AM
@AndrasDeak perhaps I should add a 'choose the case' sponsorship level....
 
Splat operator could support associative arrays ・ Scripting Engine problem ・ #80421
 
@Jeeves wat?
 
The ticket makes sense though
 
@Danack make it a bid and watch the cash flow in
 
@Derick the example doesn't....does it? I could imagine $a = [ ...['a' => 1, 'b' => 2], ...['c'=>3] ]; possibly be of use......but still why wouldn't you unwrap them yourself?
@AndrasDeak actually, it turns out that billion dollar companies find it easier and cheaper just to put emotional pressure onto people rather than pay to support open source.
 
2:03 AM
@Danack boo!
 
2:18 AM
@Derick how many drinks have you had? :P
Xdebug 3 celebration party
@Danack in response to your tweet, I've heard it said by a few people in the past: "fuck you, pay me"
Doesn't get any simpler than that
 
2:34 AM
yes. tbh, annoyed with myself for not setting up github sponsors earlier, and also apparently if you move a project to an organisation, it means that any sponsorship aimed at the organisation needs to have a Ltd company setup, which means getting registered with the tax man....
and due to brexit, any company that is making payments to a UK company, where the UK company is not VAT registered, the company making payment would have to register with the UK tax authorities, even if they had very little to do with the UK.
aka no-ones going to do that.
 
That blows :/
 
ZEND_VERSION="4.0.0" ZEND_ENGINE_3 still defined.
Aaaaaaawaarrrrrrrd.....
Also, @GabrielCaruso just pushed a fix to sgolemon/php-release you should pick up before doing 8.0.1RC1
 
Wes
3:20 AM
holy shit 4 am
i thought it was 1 am tops
 
probably time for bed....
 
Wes
i was writing a whole bunch of classes and i don't even know if i need them
lost sense of time
 
3:37 AM
@Wes maybe go over the code when you're awake and alert
 
Wes
when i am awake and alert i am paranoid and get nothing done
when i am drunk and tired i am king programmer
 
o_O
I guess whatever works for you
 
Wes
:B
being in the same timezone as amp people would be useful tho :B
i am finding myself writing weird code
 
3:53 AM
🦃
 
Wes
4:20 AM
is that a chicken
are you saying i am a chicken
ah no that's a turkey day turkey
 
 
1 hour later…
5:44 AM
Good morning and happy PHP 8 day !
7
 
6:16 AM
Good morning.
 
6:39 AM
🙀\
 
7:22 AM
o/
 
7:42 AM
morning
 
 
1 hour later…
8:45 AM
@Sara didn't we leave that intentionally in to avoid breaking exts because internals didn't change too much?
 
9:02 AM
@bwoebi zend_engine is still version 3. nothing much has changed from my PoV
 
9:45 AM
@beberlei zend engine is 4.0.0 in PHP 8, but perhaps should be 3.5.0 (and thus resolve the ZEND_ENGINE_3 macro discussion) ;)
 
oh.. PHP 8 release today?
 
Hello Everyone,

Is anyone around ?
I m in need of urgent help
 
urgent help is available for paying customers
5
 
@ChiragDaxini Have you read our chat guidelines? ^^ Don'ts, number 3.
Just ask the question, if anybody knows the answer they will likely answer. If they don't, you're out of luck.
 
10:01 AM
hi @IluTov,
Sorry about that
Here is my question
I am calling one API in my WordPress site and inside the response of that I'm getting an URL of the image, I want to download that image using some algorithm which i am not aware. So can anyone of you help me with this ?
I have used file_get_contents() and file_put_contents() and it's creting the image file but of 0 byte
Any help on this really appereciated. TIA
 
@ChiragDaxini stackoverflow.com/a/3938551/1320374 This should work fine. I'm assuming if you open the link manually in a browser the image is displayed fine?
 
@IluTov, I tried this way but it's not working as expected and yes opening the image manually in browser is displaying fine
Basically, I'm using FileMaker API and insider the response of the call I'm getting one the Image url whcih i'm trying to download
but it's not working
:(
 
Use something stronger than file_get_contents, guzzle for example, so you can inspect what you get back
 
@MarkR, Thanks for the revert, but can you please explain more abou this way ?
 
Yes, if something isn't working your primary objective should always be to get an error message of some kind.
 
10:15 AM
I'm not getting any error, That image file is getting generated successfully but with 0 byte size
that might be because of the security wrapper to that iamge url
 
@ChiragDaxini Yes. What Mark is suggesting is using Guzzle so that you do get a proper error message. stackoverflow.com/a/57606637/1320374
 
I also communicated with the support system but they said that imageURL will be valid for only once and after that, toke associateted with that is going to expired
 
morns
 
11:11 AM
php_opcache.dll crashes when using Apache 2.4 with JIT ・ Apache2 related ・ #80422
 
11:51 AM
@ChiragDaxini btw, when you say "revert" you actually mean "reply" or "response"
Revert just sounds silly in that context :)
 
@Dharman Done
 
23
A: UNION query with codeigniter's active record pattern

Somnath MulukBy doing union using last_query(), it may hamper performance of application. Because for single union it would require to execute 3 queries. i.e for "n" union "n+1" queries. It won't much affect for 1-2 query union. But it will give problem if union of many queries or tables having large data. ...

I am using this answer but I am gettting error when i search number having \ character
Union subqueries in codeigniter active record
Can anyone please help me how to fix this\
 
@Shahid you possibly need to escape that slash - stackoverflow.com/questions/881194/…
 
12:15 PM
Regarding Access modifier ・ *General Issues ・ #80423
 
@Jeeves // this is a variable
 
12:41 PM
@bwoebi Yeah, that was probably the reason. I think we even had that discussion some months ago.
 
@Danack Thanks
 
12:53 PM
    // private property name
    private $name;
great comment 10/10
 
@DaveRandom Would out again? xD
 
not at all, I would be a complete gentleman
 
Happy PHP 8 Release day :D
 
1:08 PM
@Sara Do you have an ETA for PHP 8? In the next 30 mins, or after that?
 
1:25 PM
I have the commit for web-php ready. I was thinking of doing it right now.
But if something breaks, I'll be fixing it during my talk.
 
OK, then I can do the tweet before I go out walking.
 
@Sara But then your base64 is a lie :P
 
Otherwise it'll have to wait 15km.
 
So I'll probably wait till my talk is done and do it during the panel as I suggested to Niki I was going to do. :)
Go take your walk
 
panel talk?
 
1:26 PM
The tweet won't be needed for two hours, honestly.
 
I am not that fast
 
Also, the tweet can take awhile
We went through most of 2020 without anyone on the twitter account at all.
 
's true, but I've been doing it since I could
 
Not faulting you, peaches.
 
did you just call him a mammoth girl?
 
1:28 PM
lol
 
I called him peaches.
 
that's a mammoth girl
 
Anyway, everyone happy with php.net/releases/8.0 ?
I have no idea wtf a mammoth girl is.
 
It's form the film Ice Age
 
1:30 PM
Some millennial disney crap?
 
they are actually quite good
 
MILLENNIALS!!!!!
GET OFF MY LAWN!!!!!!
 
Im not an ffing millenial
I've no instagram account
 
Zoomer?
 
I did try signing up for an Instagram account but I got instantly banned by some algorithm.
 
1:38 PM
Listening to Stefan's talk (in German), and I swear I just heard "Foo Fighter" just now.
@Derick hahahaha... oh... facebook.... you dumpster fire....
 
@Sara There are some minor nits but that's a pretty cool page :o
 
cmb
PRs still welcome :)
 
Now's the time for minor nits (which you can hopefully translate to multiple languages)
 
@cmb Which repo?
 
1:42 PM
@Sara I can probably do French/German
 
We don't have a French translation at all yet. That'd probably be the most welcome.
 
finger cracks
 
Also btw, the ChangLog has been up since Tuesday (since nothing links to it yet) php.net/ChangeLog-8.php if anyone has any notes on it.
 
@Sara Changelog is pretty uninteresting for .0 releases
Most important changes are not in it
 
mcrypt-1.0.3/mcrypt.c Missing ; on codes ・ PECL ・ #80424
 
cmb
1:56 PM
@Jeeves it's alive!
 
oops
looks like that is hosted on git.php.net but people have been pushing to github...
 
2:15 PM
@Sara Zoomer is the new boomer?
 
MessageFormatAdapter::getArgTypeList redefined ・ Compile Failure ・ #80425
 
@Dharman Any ideas on bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=65929? I'm using this code: gist.github.com/nikic/2d93c399d25921bd21c6e7920c4976de Am I just doing it wrong?
Stored procedures are such an arcane thing
@Jeeves huh wat
That's some fishy code
 
@Sara Look great! Question: I'm assuming the function JIT includes the compilation time. Is the performance any better on subsequent executions?
 
2:42 PM
@cmb how do you say extension in German?
 
cmb
"Extension" (can also be "Erweiterung"), but I think the manual uses mostly the former
 
Cheers
 
How long does it usually take for new PHP versions to be available in the most popular package managers?
 
@IluTov for RPM, usually 0 ;)
(I mean RPM already there when new version is announced)
 
Ondřej Surý usually has deb.sury.org updated ~reasonably soon.
but I mean, define "most popular". do you mean distribution repos? third party trusted repos? some-guy-on-the-internet repos?
 
2:54 PM
Cool :)
 
@SebastianBergmann zoomer = Gen Z
 
I wish we set aside all these generation labels and acknowledged that all people are terrible
especially millennials
 
@Stephen I talking official/distribution repos.
 
@IluTov Probably years
 
@cmb do you have access to web-php?
 
3:01 PM
I'd imagine only a rolling release distro is likely to have it packaged before 2021
 
Cause I don't and can't merge the English nits :(
 
@IluTov Certain ditros don't upgrade at all
 
cmb
@Girgias yes; I'll merge in a few hours, if nobody beats me to it
 
Okay :)
 
Let's see. Debian stable's python3 is 3.7.3, originally released March 25. Considering that a major version bump prooobably needs more fiddling with, it will probably take a while
(but in contrast my debian testing has 3.8.6 which was released sept 24)
 
3:06 PM
Aaaaaand, it's official!
14
 
\o/
 
🎉🎉🎉
 
good job, PHeoPle
but really, it's pretty cool to see you all put this all together :)
 
\o/
 
cmb
3:24 PM
@AndrasDeak there likely is a PPA, where you can get latest versions soon after release.
 
yup
But IluTov's question sounded more like the typical use case. Like people with ubuntu. That used to be infamously slow to update packages. Not sure how it is these days
 
cmb
LTS is likely very slow; CentOS may be worse
 
\o/ whoop whoop
 
@cmb
 
cmb
3:39 PM
hi :)
 
@cmb RHEL / CentOS have new version usually less than 1 year after release (ex, RHEL-8 already have PHP 7.2, 7.3 and 7.4)
not soo slow ;)
 
cmb
Oh, nice! But still you need to upgrade, even though the old RHEL/CentOS version is still supported.
 
/me offers virtual beers to@Sara and all contributors
cmb it was also true for RHEL / CentOS 7 (with 5.4, 5.6, 7.0, 7.1, 7.2 and 7.3)
ok, nowwadays, 7 is mostly in maintaince mode, with 7.3 and nothing more, but 8 will probably have 8.0 quite soon
 
3:56 PM
@cmb @AndrasDeak since 5.6 (I think?) Debian's 'official' packages have been multi-version installable i.e. while each official branch only include a single major.minor version of php, the packaging supports installing multiple side by side. deb.sury.org is IMO the go-to solution if you're on a Debian based distro - Ondřej is on the Debian php team, and it's the official Debian package process, they're just built and released more quickly, and made available side-by-side.
 
I have a bad habit of laying smack down on WordPress. I really should be kinder.
 
@Sara you misspelt harsher.
 
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