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00:09
CURLOPT_PRIVATE does not accept array ・ *Network Functions ・ #80159
00:36
All issues have been resolved!
Wes
Wes
01:27
what happened to paul/pcrov ?
@DaveRandom Hey, you are the one who piddles around with gd, right?
Do you have a sense for which functions tend to be the most expensive? I mean, I can just tinker with my tracer to find out, but this actually isn't for work, lol.
I installed Bolt CMS and it's super slow. I'm sure I've screwed something up in docker configuration, I think. But also the images take forever to load, and it's definitely using GD.
02:04
@LeviMorrison it shouldn't be any......unless they are hitting a network connection, I can't think of any image processing that should be that slow inside a docker box. Maybe if there's an option for it, tell BoltCMS to use a tmp directory that isn't mounted from the outside?
It could be something like 'checking to see if any cached versions of the image already exist', and having to check many different directories.
I was using a volume, which was obviously slow. However, since not using a volume I can't seem to get it to work at all; keeps trying to use a SQLite connection instead of MySQL.
 
4 hours later…
05:50
@PeeHaa Sorry, I was too tired and fell asleep. :(
06:03
Move frmo php 8 to other versions ・ Documentation problem ・ #80160
06:49
@MateKocsis my problem is with ReflectionClass::newInstance(mixed ...$args); this is not portable to PHP 7
Wes
Wes
07:39
@StatikStasis you didn't miss much
just tiffany snapping my neck 8 times
07:56
@beberlei See UPRADING
There are some explicit instructions on how to write those methods to be comparible with both PHP 7 and PHP 8
And also, for the love of god, do not extend reflection classes
... or any other internal classes :)
08:43
Morning
@Wes lol
moin
@Girgias @MateKocsis Wanna drop your opinion about externals.io/message/111940 in the thread? :)
 
1 hour later…
10:10
I feel like I have a which came first, the chicken or the egg problem.
Does an admin have permission to change a permission because they have the permission enabled to change it, or because they have a specific role?
I know first permissions are assigned to roles, and then roles to users. But when I am trying to figure out whether I should have a permission
for "can_edit_superadmin_role" or whether I should just check if the user has the superadmin role and can edit certain permissions for a regular admin.
10:24
@StatikStasis I would say the role admin has permission to change roles, and thus you should check for the permission, not the role. We do something similar and it works well.
Our terminology is a little different, we have groups which have roles and we only ever check for roles. Never encountered any issues with it.
10:39
@IluTov Thanks, man!
cmb
cmb
@NikiC, any thoughts on github.com/php/php-src/pull/6055? IMO WONTFIX.
Wes
Wes
11:00
looking for a way to differentiate in text "value" as any instance of any data type, and "value" as in the semantics of an object
"value objects".... "hold on, isn't all values values? why are value objects more valued than the other values?"
gotta say naming is hard but some stuff are like they put zero effort
11:31
@Wes Why just not "objects" and "values"?
Wes
Wes
@IluTov because the object type hint doesn't include primitives
@Wes I'm confused. Are you looking for a word that describes everything? Then value is fine.
Wes
Wes
11:50
value as in zvals and value as in the value of value object
"value object" in php would sound like "value value"
@Wes I don't follow. Can you provide some context, like a sentence of what you're writing?
@Sara Giving the replies on internals@, I'm up to sacrifice RC 4 in favour of another beta, giving everyone some more weeks to finish their force task of renaming stuff (github.com/php/php-tasks/issues/23). Let me know what you think :)
cmb
cmb
12:06
hmm, only 3 RCs instead of 6?
@cmb Yeap, we are already down to 4. I don't have any idea how to get PHP 7.4's metrics of how many downloads we had during the RCs
Otherwise, we could use it to make the call
user14287969
12:33
Hey.

I have this code:

echo "<li><a onclick='getdata($result['data'])'>Reviews</a></li>";
It gives an red line on this code. $result['data'] This is the part where it gives an error or red line. Since if I write some string instead such as getdata('testing'); It works. How do I write it properly in php?
user14287969
@GabrielCaruso Could you please help?
@Sky Don't ping random people...
user14287969
Sorry.
user14287969
Can you help me?
@Sky You'd have to check what $result['data'] actually contains. Can you try var_dumping it?
A debugger could help too.
user14287969
12:37
Yes, it does contains stuff. It gives red line on that echo because when you write a variable (so html in php) there is a different way of writing it.
user14287969
I just don't recall
Wes
Wes
@IluTov you know what "value objects" are? doesn't it sound redundant? that's because value is used in place of object
user14287969
Like using '' and .
@Sky Have you tried this?
user14287969
Yes
Wes
Wes
12:39
"what's the value of the value?" you would never write this, right? we'd say "what's the value of the object?"
 echo "<li><a onclick='getdata(" . json_encode($result['data']) . ")'>Reviews</a></li>";
@Sky Sorry, I meant the code I just posted.
Wes
Wes
but object is not an actual synonym of value
@Wes Hm, depends on the sentence and focus, I guess. Value object when you're differentiating between "normal objects" and objects that specifically just carry data seems fine.
user14287969
@IluTov Yes, that works. I guess I was missing '' or ""
user14287969
Thankss
Wes
Wes
12:43
how would you explain the meaning of "value objects" to someone?
@Sky What most likely were missing is that $result['data'] is a string and would result in getdata(foobar) which would look for a variable that doesn't exist. json_encode will add the missing quotes.
Wes
Wes
it's an extremely hard task, because value has multiple meanings
that's just what i am saying
@Wes Objects whose only purpose is to carry data.
Whose? Can you say that for things?
Wes
Wes
yes whose can be used for things afaik
i don't think that's the definition tho
i mean, roughly, but more specifically i was asking how you'd explain the name
what does value mean in value objects? :P
it's a bit messed up
i don't want you to actually explain, just pointing out it's messy :D
@Wes I guess value objects and dtos have slightly different semantics but PHP doesn't really have value objects. E.g. comparison for all objects is handled the same. Sorry if I'm completely missing your point.
Wes
Wes
12:51
@IluTov do you agree that exist other things that are not "value objects"?
@Wes Of course :)
Wes
Wes
why do we call them values, too?
it's like "value objects" are a subset of "values"
@Wes Because it is stored in memory :P I see what you mean.
Wes
Wes
yeah :P literally just that
user14287969
My code does works but when I try to switch the tabs, it does not switch it. My code: paste.org/110558
user14287969
12:53
Could you please have a look? It is printing the data (both of them) Just not switching the tabs
@Sky Are you using bootstrap? Read the documentation. getbootstrap.com/docs/4.5/components/navs/#javascript-behavior
user14287969
Yes, I am using bootstrap
Wes
Wes
so basically my problem is that every time i write "value" i have to specify what i actually mean
13:10
@NikiC Is there a convention for naming parameters which supports both a string path to a file but also a stream at the same time? Obviously refering to exif here as the $filename seems odd when you can still pass a stream
@Kalle Don't think we have a convention for this yet
Maybe $file? ^^
Works for me! I wanted to take a look before GA and I remember this discrepency that I myself introduced xD
Do we have a stream type?
Wes
Wes
$pathOrStream
i don't care if it doesn't roll off the tongue, i can understand it right away :P
i just found out madara quit SO, and apparently a lot of other moderators did
I think $file is the better option, because the stream itself is ambiguous as with all resource types but the named parameter does make it unambiguous, sort of
13:26
@Wes Why tho?
@Wes Was the entire mod massacre happening when you were AWOL?
Wes
Wes
yes, probably
what happened?
Let me find a meta post from around the start
2378
Q: Firing mods and forced relicensing: is Stack Exchange still interested in cooperating with the community?

amon The last weeks and days have seen some erratic behaviour by Stack Exchange Inc., such as likely illegal changes to the content license and the firing of an upstanding community moderator with no explanation except copy-pasted responses, leaving many to believe it was for no good reason. It would...

It started with a mod being let go
user14287969
I tried this : https://www.paste.org/110559
After reading the documentation you reckon me. It does shows the result when I click on each tabs, but instead of showing the actual function information, it just prints the "functionname(the value I am passing here)" but does not actually call the function, so does not prints the actual function data. Could you please have a look at my code? @IluToied
And it cascaded from that with all kinds of the usual mismanagement from SO
13:31
@Sky Try to break it down. Copy the code from bootstrap, see what works, try to integrate your parts.
And shog was also fired in the process
It's hard to debug someone elses code remotely, most likely nobody is ready to invest that time for you.
user14287969
What do you mean by "try to break it down"?
user14287969
I guess I am again doing the same mistake what I did earlier, so it is treating it as a string rather actual function
@Sky "Go from there", pretty much. Copy the whole code snippet from the bootstrap documentation, try to change it and test it every step of the way so you can identify mistakes quickly.
13:33
@PeeHaa I knew about that situation, but I did not know Madara quit because of it too.
@GabrielCaruso Right, I'll do that just had no electricity until now due to British Gas shenanigans
user14287969
The code is fine. The only error is in this line: "<div class='tab-pane fade show active' id='highlights' role='tabpanel' aria-labelledby='home-tab'>
getRestaurantHighlights(" . $result['res_id'] . ");

</div>";
@StatikStasis Not just that. Basically everything that was/is wrong with SO and how the handle everything
user14287969
It's treating it as a string rather function or else the function colour changes to yellow when it's not treating it as a string so this one: getRestaurantHighlights(" . $result['res_id'] . ");
user14287969
I try adding "" and .. like before but not doing it right maybe..
13:36
*AFAIK
@Wes the difference is the value is the identity for value objects. Any new value is a new object. which is different for other things which can change values/properties without fundamentally becoming a new object.
@GabrielCaruso Around what time do you plan to tag the release?
@Wes I was looking for this one too in reference to the debacle. meta.stackexchange.com/questions/336177/…
morns
Wes
Wes
holy shizzle
13:46
I want to wait for Sara, if that's not a problem. So far, my idea is what you suggested: Don't cut the branch yet & Release RC1

You said about bumping the ABI numbers, do we need it after https://github.com/php/php-src/pull/5931?
@GabrielCaruso Oh, I forgot that already happened
@GabrielCaruso If you can both just wait for github.com/php/php-src/pull/6226 to get merged than that would be all the Notice/Warning promotions done
@GabrielCaruso I'm not sure if they need to be bumped again for ABI freeze, probably Sara or @cmb will know
Let's wait for Sara than. I have meetings until 9 pm CEST today, my plan is to do whatever we decide around that time
13:51
@StatikStasis STAHP! don't go down that rabbit hole, I too have wasted many hours reading through those and nothing good came of it :p
@NikiC @GabrielCaruso we usually set final API number for RC1
@mega6382 I remember. That was around the time you asked about it. Where do you think I got all of the links from? =P
And I'm pretty sure there is some between beta3 and beta4 which breaks the ABI , as I have extension built against beta3 broken with beta4 (some undefined symbol
@StatikStasis lol
cmb
cmb
yes, I think an API bump is in order for RC1
13:55
have a bump imply a mass rebuild of all extension, which seems to worth it
Ok, I'll add that to my TODO list of today, thanks for confirming!
but this also means commit after the bump should be reviewed carefully to ensure no more ABI changes happen
@RemiCollet BTW I checked that CSV does build with PHP 8.0 (would need to check again with RC1 but I don't expect it to fail) sure I do a patch release for it on PECL or no release is fine?
Let's just wait for the mother of the dragons to see what she thinks about branching it or not
@gi
@Girgias indeed v0.3.1 build and test suite passes with beta4, so probably no need to a new release
13:58
Okay cool :)
I plan to rebuild all extensions after RC1, and will update blog.remirepo.net/post/2020/09/21/…
@GabrielCaruso Sara is mother of dragons now? I didn't realize she'd been promoted.
Good to know for the rebuild, I really need to get back working on it sometime soon
Does that mean Z is Viserys?
@Girgias Heh, you indented the wrong block ^^
I meant the part where the contents of the if are not indented, not the outer switch
14:04
@NikiC Bloody hell, me trying to go to fast and not reading properly...
@Girgias @MateKocsis @NikiC congrats, amazing work
@beberlei I shall now take a "vacation" and get back to stuff which people have been nudging me for weeks (i.e. University committee stuff) :D
@Crell What was her last title? Hahahha
Queen of the North, I believe...
@NikiC Huzzah!
14:46
@Girgias I'm going to send an email this week to the docs mailing list asking Andreas and everyone else the status of that migration. Dragonis and his project on reddit will be my excuse to push it once again. I ping you if we need some help with code or anything
15:22
!!reminder
Jeeves dead? @PeeHaa
!!wotd
yep!
fixit.mp4
!!imdb f1
Could not find the movie or series
15:27
I think Ekin wanted to build reminder
But priorities
Oh! I thought it still existed. Oh well.
15:41
@GabrielCaruso I mean sure ping me don't know how helpful I'll be :D
Iterating on key/value with reference (&) has unexpected side effect ・ Arrays related ・ #80161
So are we going to end up with another 2 weeks for param renaming one way or another at this point, or no?
15:57
once RC1 hits that should surely be over?
The thread on the list seems to imply perhaps not.
16:14
I didn't realize that Nikita was sponsored by JetBrains to work on PHP. That's actually really cool
Yep. They're really putting their money where their mouth is.
You can see that in PHP 7.4 and 8.0 becoming increasingly more instrumentation and static analysis friendly. ;-)
Considering how they've created their own programming language that makes it a little bit more surprising
Yeah definitely
I think PHP's relaxed constraints helped me get into programming a little bit easier as someone who didn't know anything but slowly as I learn more I realize the important of strict types and typing everything, while simultaneously PHP allows more typing. It works out pretty well
PHP's "opt in" to most strictness, combined with a culture of opting in as much as possible, is one of its greatest strengths as a language for exactly that reason.
Interesting, I always thought it was a side effect of earlier versions but I never looked at it as an intentional strength
I don't think it's intentional. But it worked out nicely that way.
16:28
Correct me if I'm wrong, but PHP is the only language which has "true" gradual typing right?
(i.e. verified at runtime)
I avoid getting into debates about true-ness where possible. -)
What do you mean 'foo' == 0 is very truthful :P
PHP = Gradual Type Truthiness
16:44
@LeviMorrison I believe you are thinking of @Danack, I have done a couple of bits and pieces with gd but I wouldn't claim to know more about it than the manual
i haven't actually really touched GD....I have enough image problems already.
cmb
cmb
@LeviMorrison one reason for GD being slow might be not having sufficient memory causing swapping (note that external libgd doesn't heed memory_limit)
@cmb isn't there still the issue that the internal and external libgd are competely out of sync?
@NikiC Does this look like a good solution to the edge cases caused by ext/soap fatal error juggling? github.com/php/php-src/pull/6114#issuecomment-699146091
cmb
cmb
@Girgias yes, partially out of sync at least :(
16:57
@cmb That's still as annoying as ever :(
cmb
cmb
even slightly more so, since MSFT won't support PHP 8, so someone would have to build external libgd on Win in their free time, but the build is broken for a while now
@SammyK that doesn't really make sense to me
Rather than handling the bailout, can't you pop remaining frames on shutdown or something?
@NikiC Doesn't a zend_bailout just free the memory (including the whole VM stack in one go) at the end of the request? Or is there something like ZEND_HANDLE_EXCEPTION that we could run for every frame during shutdown?
@NikiC I have an issue where the closure created here sometimes results in Assertion failed: (((execute_data)->func)->op_array.fn_flags & ((1 << 7)|(1 << 10))), function ZEND_BIND_STATIC_SPEC_CV_UNUSED_HANDLER, file Zend/zend_vm_execute.h, line 48112. It appears to happen when it is GC'd, particularly if the function threw an exception when it was executed. Any idea why?
17:28
The flags correspond to ZEND_ACC_IMMUTABLE and ZEND_ACC_PRELOADED. Seems as though it assumes it should be a built-in method? If I'm understanding that correctly?
The closure is being bound to an anonymous class.
Though making it a concrete class doesn't seem to matter…
@Danack you need to say it in berlin accet "ick hab genug image in mein leben" then you have the full pun on imagick in there
 
2 hours later…
Wes
Wes
that's sus
@wes vented. He's the impostor. Vote him out @PeeHaa @Ekin @Tiffany
Wes
Wes
someone farted so i opened a vent to let some fresh air in
Wes
Wes
19:23
by the way, i've never used a vent
can i stay hidden in the vent for how long?
As long as you want.
Only as the impostor can you use a vent. You can move to another vent close by after you have vented.
If you see someone in chat say "Purp vented" or "Green vented" they are saying that that color player jumped in a vent, which means vote them off if you believe them.
@Ekin @PeeHaa @twodee @Tiffany @Wes @Alesana For when we play... discord.gg/8Dbmv4
Link expires in a day I think... maybe 4.
19:43
And anyone else who plans to play Among Us with us sometime this week. =D
19:55
Will you still be on in a bit @StatikStasis?
@PeeHaa Driving home in about 2 minutes and will be sometime after I get home.
Click click click
Cool :D
 
1 hour later…
21:05
@StatikStasis Sounds good :D
With composer (pre v1.10) is there any way to see if a PHP script is being ran from a composer script?
@cmb Hm, looks like there's still a test failure on C:\projects\php-src\ext\odbc\tests\bug80152.phpt
In v1.10 I can just do @putenv APP_ENV=composer and check for that
But our infrastructure is managed by someone else and I'm convinced they use an earlier version
cmb
cmb
@NikiC yeah, already noticed, but I can't reproduce locally. Might be JIT related. /S
@cmb Maybe open a PR that reverts github.com/php/php-src/commit/… and see whether that fixes it?
Unclear whether this was failing from the start on master or after that change
21:56
Btw, I'm gonna release RC1 today, without cutting the branch. Gonna reply that on internals@ and start the process :)
@cmb I might need some help in some areas with the migration guide just because I haven't contributed to the documentation in the past. I'll start by looking at previous migration docs and copying each section. I'll run through all the RFC's for PHP 8 and make sure each one is outlined in the appropriate section(s)
I have all the documentation set up locally though
cmb
cmb
Better look at github.com/php/php-src/blob/master/UPGRADING (all relevant RFCs should be mentioned there).
If you have questions, just ask. Or maybe provide a draft PR where individual issues could be resolved. :)
I still need to do a draft PR for removing the migration guides...
22:33
@cmb Probably a good idea to do a draft PR. I was looking at wiki.php.net/rfc but I didn't realize PHP 8 had the upgrade notes. That's half the work done for me already :p
cmb
cmb
"Any parameters in parameter_array which start and end with single quotes will be taken as the name of a file to read and send to the database server as the data for the appropriate placeholder." sigh
22:59
@cmb ODBC?
Also I discovered a minor bug in Zlib by enabling a Compiler warning again :)
cmb
cmb
@Girgias odbc_execute()
@cmb Seems like you are having fun going through that extension, is MS paying you to do this specifically?
cmb
cmb
yeah, big fun ;) and nope, not being told to look at this, but since ODBC is a MS spec, and these exts need some care, that seems appropriate :)
That's true, a lot of extensions do need some love
array_key_exists() should support ArrayAccess ・ Unknown/Other Function ・ #80162
23:19
@Jeeves Hello again.
At least it's a feature request this time around
23:49
Does anyone know of any good resources to study math? I'm thinking about trying to get into some university for CS but I would need to do good on an SAT or something because I only have a GED

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