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00:00 - 21:0021:00 - 00:00

12:23 AM
@Tiffany This is fun!
 
 
1 hour later…
1:36 AM
@StatikStasis it is :D especially with multiple people you know.
Would be nice to have a full game with r11
 
 
2 hours later…
3:25 AM
Yeah- I streamed it for almost 2.5 hours... time flew by.
 
3:43 AM
@StatikStasis You streamed you playing among us?
 
3:54 AM
Has anyone used FISH shell? It seems like it might be better than zsh
 
 
1 hour later…
5:16 AM
Hi All,
Any Expert who can answer this codeigniter related question
https://forum.codeigniter.com/thread-77633.html
 
 
1 hour later…
6:40 AM
The failure to make the distinction between LTS releases providing security fixes, and backports, is a dangerous one ... these people aren't involved in the security mailing list, nor bug tracker conversations ... if a sec bug is fixed in a currently supported version of PHP, they backport it, that is not the same as providing security fixes, there can very easily be dangerous security issues in an unsupported release that do not effect any supported release so there is nothing to backport ...
the people doing the backporting aren't internals devs, not involved in the conversation, and aren't actually qualified to claim they provide security support beyond what the project provide ...
and the people making the decisions for wordpress are really annoying, one year they're pushing for 7 support and the next supporting stupid versions ...
 
 
2 hours later…
Wes
8:18 AM
le morning
 
9:05 AM
morns
 
Wes
what do you do when repositories disappear lol. why the heck would you delete a repository of open source code, especially if you put it on packagist.....
it's no biggie tho, just a slight annoyance, it was a small function i'll just rewrite myself
 
@Wes relevant xkcd: xkcd.com/2347
 
Wes
precisely
i love they specified "in nebraska" lol
 
9:26 AM
ye, sounds weirdly specific
 
 
2 hours later…
11:08 AM
Morning
 
11:25 AM
@StatikStasis \o/ we had a lot of fun last night, maybe we could plan a room11 run for a weekend :)
 
@Ekin That would be awesome!
 
\o/
 
@Ekin I'll have to add a delay to the stream so that @PeeHaa doesn't cheat and call an Emergency Meeting and kick me off the ship. XD
 
:D
 
Statik is sus
 
11:30 AM
Lol
Need to get @DaveRandom to play
 
I need to get a 2nd headphone with mic so we can play together with PeeHaa saner
 
Would be nice if we can fill an entire server
 
Yes
 
I had to kill my sound last night so he doesn't hear me killing people :P
 
That's boring :(
 
11:32 AM
Here was my second time being the impostor. I was able to kill everyone! youtube.com/watch?v=Cyld_naP4Wo&t=113m45s
 
it was still a lotta fun tbh, especially because he's right in front of me :D
 
Wes
i watched an among us video recently but had no idea what was going on
 
@StatikStasis such a short kill timer, I think @Ekin had it set to like 30 seconds
 
Wes
@Ekin he still could hear you evil laughing after the fact tho?
:D
 
@StatikStasis I think you could've killed one of them when it was just three of you and win, regardless if the other person saw
I dunno though
 
11:41 AM
@Ekin lol, that is hilarious.
@Ekin What would he say when you killed him?
@Tiffany Oh I didn't know that! Would be good to know.
 
@StatikStasis all sorts of words :P he did say I knew it many times too :D
 
@cmb as you've been doing a couple of things on ODBC, do you know how to support PDO's quoting feature with it? Cause it's currently being bogus: github.com/php/php-src/pull/6212/commits/…
 
If I were sitting with the person I probably would not be able to stop laughing.
 
@Wes I think I'm going to become a poker face master the more we play this :P
 
Wes
11:44 AM
:D
 
my very first game, I was the impostor, and @Ekin was my first kill
...I think she was my first kill
 
yeah indeed :D
 
Wes
just got myself a copy tho
 
Not sure if it is interesting for people in this room but I have asked a Meta question meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/401568/… If anyone wants to add anything please feel free to do so.
 
@Wes \o/
 
11:54 AM
@Wes awesome
 
\o/ yay
 
Can we pass query in a tag???
<a>
 
Wes
Wesabi was not the impostor. RIP
it's hard to understand
need to memorize the room names
 
@RifkyNiyas what do you mean?
 
@Tiffany Sorry man! I am getting this wrong!!!!!!!!! Here is what! I have a page on which all the products are displayed through a query. On the click of a the product card, I need to go to the product page where the specific information of the clicked product are displayed
Should we have queries or what?
 
Wes
12:13 PM
so the impostor has to pretend they are doing tasks, while they actually do evil?
 
Impostor syndrome (also known as impostor phenomenon, impostorism, fraud syndrome or the impostor experience) is a psychological pattern in which an individual doubts their accomplishments or talents and has a persistent internalized fear of being exposed as a "fraud".
 
@Wes yes
@RifkyNiyas different thing. He's talking about the game Among Us
 
@Tiffany What game?
Any fixes for me?
 
@Wes though, I tried pretending I was doing a task and was caught immediately because I guess only so many people can do a task.
 
Wes
@Tiffany as a crew, does it even matter if you complete the tasks?
 
12:17 PM
@Wes yes, you can win that way
 
cmb
@Girgias E_NEED_MORE_CONTEXT. The link is stale. :)
 
@RifkyNiyas are you trying to build an e-commerce product? Is there any reason you're trying to roll your own instead of using something already made? Note that learning how to do something is a valid reason, but if you have a paying client, you're probably better off using something already made.
 
@cmb Right... I forced push... Anyway ODBC's PDO driver set's a handler for a quoter (PDO:quote()) but is not implemented so it always fails and then returns false but with a wrong error message. Just hit this while working on the PDO unconditional error PR: (and new commit link github.com/php/php-src/pull/6212/commits/…)
 
@Tiffany How can I get something thats previously made?
 
cmb
Ah, thanks! Off the top of my head, I wouldn't know how to implement that. Interestingly, the manual states: "Not all PDO drivers implement this method (notably PDO_ODBC)." ;)
 
12:25 PM
Right, just wanted to check, what's whack is if you don't support it no handler should be registered so PDO know the driver doesn't support it... but ODBC did register one anyway...
 
Wes
what does it mean when there's an emergency meeting @Tiffany
 
@Tiffany Everyone has to do each of the tasks. I wonder if it was because you were standing at something you thought might be task but it wasn't one that round...?
@Wes Everyone has a limit of two emergency meetings. You can call one to discuss if you think someone is the impostor.
 
@RifkyNiyas google for one? woocommerce is pretty common, I guess magento is too, but those are wordpress products
 
@Wes Also whether you are dead or alive, you still continue to complete tasks.
 
cmb
@Girgias "TODO: figure it out" might have been wishful thinking, and later forgotten :)
 
12:33 PM
Everyone must complete their tasks in order to win.
Or identify the impostor and throw them off the ship
 
easier to complete tasks when you're dead :P
you can walk through walls
 
yeah lol
 
I didn't realize everyone had to complete tasks in the game when I was dead and I ended up following the killer around. Someone finally said "Complete your quests dead people."
 
@Girgias how long has that been there?
 
12:35 PM
Who the build expert here?
@Tiffany I'd say foreever
@NikiC Apparently you set a Todo to yourself for PHP 7.4 in zend_register_class_alias_ex() github.com/php/php-src/blame/master/Zend/zend_API.c#L2780
 
@Da
@Danack are you around ?
 
Wes
12:51 PM
is it a good idea to tell i am new to the game @Tiffany given that the impostor can blame me, probs
is it possible that the same task is assigned to multiple people?
 
no and yes
 
Wes
1:06 PM
it's a neat little game
probably takes a lot of time to master
i don't even know how to pretend i am the impostor :( got spotted right away
 
1:17 PM
Git mergin'.
 
@Girgias Yeah ... if only I knew how that TODO was supposed to be resolved :D
 
@NikiC Well that's another issue then :D
 
@Ekin @PeeHaa @Wes @Tiffany youtube.com/watch?v=GDjD9ooKTOA
We need to get on Discord like this when we do play.
Hilarious one to watch.
 
Wes
i just was in a stream with that dude @StatikStasis
everybody was yo big fan
that or i didn't understand :B
 
2:00 PM
symfony.com/blog/new-in-symfony-5-2-php-8-attributes saw that on the reddits, best outcome.
 
Aye
So let's change the syntax again and break tools? :P
 
Hey @PeeHaa @Tiffany you guys got a discord channel?
Or any of the Among us folks
 
@Wes With what dude?
 
Wes
typical gamer channel was mentioned, i don't remember the name
 
He's probably my favorite streamer to watch... but I doubt he knows me. lol
 
2:17 PM
Also, when do you guys play and where do you share the room code? The last game was fun. :P
 
Wes
@PeeHaa is there a list of all tasks that reveal you are legit?
tasks with animation that is
 
Some tasks indeed show up right away if you would finish them legit
Other task (e.g. diverting power) are multi step
 
Do ping me when you're playing :D
 
2:35 PM
Sure thing
I think we are at 7 total r11 players right now \o/
 
Wes
@PeeHaa is there a list somewhere?
 
Of all the tasks per map?
Besides some gaming wiki not sure
 
What games do you guys play
 
Wes
2:52 PM
among us
 
3:10 PM
What were the PHP 8 performance optimizations apart from JIT?
 
OpCache now handles return types, and it seems autoloading is faster with the removal of __autoload()
 
+ $this can't be unset from closures which as far as I remember also came with a nice perf improvement
 
@PeeHaa We've got to get on Discord, TeamSpeak, or something else.
Seems to add so much to it.
@PeeHaa Man, I can't wait to play this with everyone!
 
:D
 
Thank you guys for the gift! <3 @PeeHaa @Ekin
 
3:19 PM
This page claims that there is a significant improvement phoronix.com/…
 
That benchmark is bullshit
@StatikStasis <3
 
@StatikStasis <3 :)
@StatikStasis all the same :D
 
Yeah, I'd figure. I wonder if I will see any difference in real life application
 
@PeeHaa @Ekin That stream I linked above, they play with the setting where it is not revealed whether someone was or was not the impostor until after one side has won. It seems to add a lot of suspense and chaos to the game. We should try that option.
 
@StatikStasis Is there a way to voice chat in the game that allows only people alive to talk? Like in the stream?
 
3:23 PM
That's why we need some out of band solution
@StatikStasis Sounds good
 
I'm waiting for the Kinsta benchmarks for PHP 8.0
Cause they do some nice testing
@MateKocsis @NikiC just realized that pgsql used E_NOTICE for some TypeErrors indication which we haven't done yet...
 
3:41 PM
Well that was frustrating. Been trying to sent a JSON POST request with CURL. If I used CURLOPT_POST it ignored my header. If I used CURLOPT_CUSTOMREQUEST with a value of POST, it didn't work. But if you just use CURLOPT_POSTFIELDS without either it works
 
Wait wat
 
@Machavity As a field or as the main body?
 
Who gave you a shiny blue color @Machavity?
 
@PeeHaa Catija
 
How much rep did that cost?
 
3:44 PM
 
Well happy broom birthday!
 
@MarkR I just pass json_encode results straight there. I thought for sure you had to declare it was a POST directly tho
It's the body btw
 
Are these fixes changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/main/p/php7.0/… backported by Ubuntu from newer PHP versions or are they maintaining a separate fork of PHP?
 
@Dharman Probably backported. 16.04 is a LTS release and it hits EOL next year. RedHat does the same thing
The general idea behind LTS is to backport all security fixes so previous versions still work as long as the LTS version is supported. Thus you have less compatibility issues (in theory)
 
4:01 PM
@2dsharp You basically talk during team meetings, turn off during play, once you're dead you no longer unmute until game is over.
You can watch that stream above I linked of Typical Gamer playing to see how they operate.
 
@StatikStasis Gotcha, do we have a channel for voice chat then? If not, then I think we should. :D
 
@StatikStasis Ohh I will have to watch next time
 
@2dsharp There is a Room 11 discord channel that someone created, maybe Teresko or Fabien? It has a gaming channel so we could use that.
 
Can you put me in the channel?
 
4:36 PM
@NikiC github.com/php/php-src/pull/6220 - Anything else needed here or is PDO ready to go as well?
 
@Crell I've got my rather large PR about making some error condtions in PDO unconditionally throw errors
So you might need to adapt test when that lands (just waiting for Appveyor to clear)
 
... sigh
 
Wes
4:58 PM
i almost managed to win as impostor @PeeHaa just had to rush in the end as they were finishing tasks :D
 
Does anyone know why in news-web.php.net it shows RSS links for some groups but not others?
The ones without RSS links seem to still work for RSS
I'm wondering if there's a reason behind that
 
@Wes where do you keep the code? Discord?
 
Wes
the code of what?
 
Among us room code
Or is there a friends system?
 
Wes
right now i am only playing in public lobbies
just trying get a grasp on the game
it's pretty clever
 
5:03 PM
Ahh, and when you do play private games, where do you share the code?
@Wes Yep, I've been practicing too :D
 
Wes
no idea where, probably here?
 
Ahh I thought r11 had a discord or something
 
@2dsharp R11 is constantly in discord. Easy mistake to make.
5
 
@Machavity Can I join the channel? :D
 
You're already in it. Just say "strict type hints" to get started :P
 
5:09 PM
@Machavity AHH right XD
 
Wes
@Machavity UNICODE STRINGS
 
mysqli! ducks
 
Wes
unicode strings is the best way to start a flame on the mailing list i reckon
 
@2dsharp I think you can just join. One second. Let me see
 
5:26 PM
hey
So I have a POST request that is sending to just one url (SharePoint List) currently from an HTML form, that way I can repopulate my datatable the easiest way possible. I have 8 different subsites that the DataTable is pulling information from.

When I fill out the form there are 8 program choices to choose from corresponding with what SharePoint list the item belongs too. How can I wrap my AJAX in an IF/ELSE statement to send it to the correct list?
 
Wes
5:40 PM
how traumatic it would be if i get a cherry mx blue keyboard after i used reds for several years?
 
Are the blue the noisy ones? Or are those the Red? (Or is that brown?)
I'm too confused by the naming scheme
 
Wes
i am not completely happy with how sensitive red is, sometimes i activate keys unintentionally
blue is the clicky one
red is no click, very silent, very little resistance
i don't think blue are particularly noisy
red make no noise but if you smash on keys like most do, they are all noisy :P
i am more worried about being too heavy under the fingers, than noise
 
@Girgias Please keep me posted on whether I need to reroll PDO.
 
@Crell Probably in 30min? The fastest of the Appveyor CI jobs finished
 
k
 
Wes
5:47 PM
i have one that has brown switches under the big keys like spacebar but membrane under regular keys. and i can't tell the difference with red ones
they are basically identical
 
@Crell just merged :)
 
Need AJAX help
 
This is PHP room
Not a JS room
 
Wes
6:02 PM
what's a JS
 
6:17 PM
A "Just Saying" room
A "Jessica Simpson" room
 
Jury Sampling. Necessary for Internals, or something
 
6:34 PM
Yep, merge conflicts. sigh
 
Wes
6:47 PM
@PeeHaa @Ekin @Tiffany @StatikStasis GAME IS ADDICTIVE AND FUN :D
 
Wes
i just won as impostor. was epic lol
 
yeah it is
2.5 hrs went by fast for me yesterday
@Wes NICE!
 
I've been playing for 6 hours now, I lost track of time.
 
Wes
i still need to figure out what's the animations that reveal the legit crew members
so far i only know the trash one
 
6:49 PM
@Wes what animations?
 
Wes
there's something you pull to eject the trash out of the ship
 
ahh right
 
I have to learn a lot about the game I was not doing well
 
Wes
if you see the animation of that it means the crew member is not the impostor
 
Someone just killed me while completing a task :(
 
Wes
6:50 PM
as the impostor cannot fake the animation
 
I'm gunnu watch a youtube video
 
@Wes I didn't notice anything like that yet. I'll keep my eye out.
 
Wes
i found this youtube.com/watch?v=Sdaoa8BAmV0 all tasks, visible or not
 
Are we going to have a little R11 match today?
 
7:05 PM
My Dad appears to have set himself an alarm to remind him to turn the alarm off
 
PHP wizards, question please... does anyone know if there is a quick way to download the source for all extensions in PECL?
 
all? extensions?
 
(Want to do some greppings and see if work I am doing on php-src is likely to break any of them)
* grepping
 
Surely you do not care about all of them :)
 
If there is even one which is likely to break, it's better to know about it than not
 
7:13 PM
There is crap on there that is not working by default
 
Looking at the web site, there are only 402
If there was 10,000, I might limit myself to only look at 1000-2000
 
There is crap that has not been updated in 10 years
 
@DaveRandom that is the funniest thing I have seen all day
 
You cannot check whether you will break something as stuff is broken as is :)
 
@AlexD If you find a way, please do share :)
 
7:15 PM
:D
 
I'd be interested in that as well
 
OK
 
Are there no download stats?
 
Wes
@2dsharp i'm down
 
Target the actual maintained and used ones?
 
7:15 PM
@PeeHaa That would actually be more work
 
@Wes Quit metagaming! =P
 
If there was a quick way to get the lot, ripgrep could probably go through all of it in minutes
 
iirc pecl used to be under a single svn tree, does the old svn mirror still exist?
 
But you get a lot of false positives
 
Then when there are hits, start checking to see which of those are working/maintained
 
7:17 PM
Do you guys know the ballpark of pecl exts actually working cc @NikiC?
I assume at least half are not
 
hmm... is it bad practice to allow a function to create a variable name for an array?
 
Then store that variable name in a variable?
 
This error message is not very clear: "Deprecated: Required parameter $type follows optional parameter $only"
All messages should says what to do, not what is
i.e. Deprecated: Required parameter $type should occur before optional parameter $only
 
@Dharman That would be actively incorrect
The action to take is to remove the default value, not move the parameter
@PeeHaa No idea
 
7:33 PM
"Deprecated: Parameter $only should not be optional if followed by required parameter $type"
 
@PeeHaa No idea, but 'pecl list-all' shows 146 extensions
 
@Wes Let's wait for everyone? Maybe an hour or so?
 
Scripting pecl CLI tool to download all of them
 
Wes
@PeeHaa and @Ekin should organize
 
@Alesana Got an answer- it's stinky. =)
Won't be able to join tonight. cries I will not be home until very late.
 
7:42 PM
@StatikStasis Heh I just wonder what the point would be, just to do $$arrayName instead of $array :p
 
I might join in a bit
Almost about to call it a day here
 
\o/
 
> A few years down the road, DI containers may have broad support for annotating parameters for injection.
May I never see a codebase that does this or any docblock based injection. Amen.
 
Already upgraded mine to do it :-)
 
@LeviMorrison Isn't this how Java does it?
 
7:52 PM
@2dsharp Yes, and I'm avidly against that approach. It's why I voted against attributes in the first round. Can't remember if I voted no this time around, but perhaps?
 
@Dharman yeah, something along those lines would work
 
Ah, yes, I voted "no" this time as well. The lone "no" vote.
 
@NikiC in regards to PGSQL tests, should I make them all in one test or each individual case separately?
 
@LeviMorrison Could you tell me why you think it's not the right way to inject dependencies?
 
I mean... have you used it?
 
7:55 PM
I have multiple file abstraction connections, my main one gets injected via StorageAdapterInterface but others had to be passed through some getter. When 8.0 hits I will just tag the constructor arg with which one I want.
 
@LeviMorrison Yea, all injections in Java use the @Inject annotation. Field injections are generally discouraged, but it's how the java community does it with ctors.
 
You didn't hate it?
 
Well, it felt weird at the beginning, but again most Java DI frameworks like Guice and Spring made things really easy. Didn't develop any strong opinions.
 
I doubt I could convince you otherwise then :)
 
@Girgias I've been adding them to existing tests where convenient, like github.com/php/php-src/commit/…
We also don't need coverage for everything, just a couple representative tests. Like for one function that does the "invalid oid" thing
 
7:58 PM
@LeviMorrison I am interested to know your thoughts, I may be missing something.
 
@NikiC Right okay, can leave coverage for everything for other people during Hacktober or so, I think there are 2 or 3 representaive cases that I hope to get done this evening. :)
 
@Girgias And pgsql tests are really awesome. Like there's tests that just call a bunch of functions, without ever looking at the output
 
great
 
So ... we at least know the code isn't crashing :)
Which is the most important thing, to be fair ^^
 
I mean I think the moment RC hits, I'm gonna write an RFC so that we can please get rid of this stupid double overloaded PGSQL functionss where you don't need to pass the link
 
8:04 PM
@Girgias Yes, so much yes
 
Why isn't there a filter for trim() yet?
 
@Girgias OK, latest push seems to be working. It passed Travis and Azure, just waiting on Appveyor.
 
8:34 PM
What are your guys opinion on a composer package that has composer packages inside of it. Like this pastebin.com/raw/MWYtNMw6
I want to say there's never a reason to do that but I might be missing something
 
@Crell Aye :D I did push some other PDO changes but shouldn't affect tests :)
 
They're not individual repos included in any composer.json or anything they're just... there
 
:stare:
@Alesana I'm pretty sure in PHP/Composer that is Doing It Wrong(tm). Go and Rust's package managers allow you to do that, but it's not how Composer works.
 
@Crell I promise
 
I don't know what to tell my manager telling me to do that
I uhh
Have no idea what to do here
It would at least make a little bit of sense if the sub-packages didn't depend on things that are in the main package directory?
 
8:40 PM
@Alesana it is fine as long as the subpackages do not require different versions of any dependency
but uh… if you go that route … maybe write a short script to merge the composer definitions into a single one?
 
@bwoebi So it is not fine :P
 
you got it
 
:D
 
Hehe
I guess Magento does it
 
@Girgias +1! Do you want to add it to the list of the PHP 8.1 deprecations or do separately?
 
8:45 PM
But I think in this instance there's not even anything additional in these package.json files
The package.json files are supposed to just be there to define that it's a separate module
 
@MateKocsis I don't know if it isn't a bit too large for it to get bundled with that
 
"Magento does it" is generally a good indication that it's not fine.
4
 
That's what I was thinking too :p
I heard Magento 2 is a lot better but I haven't used either
 
@MateKocsis what is the canonical order for types again?
I need to add resource for PGSQL
 
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