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00:33
@cmb Uh, I looked at php-src earlier today and I thought it still did the weird param parsing.
Maybe I looked at a stale version.
01:14
I get the reasoning behind but, but I suspect that removing PECL from default 8.0 is going to cause a fair few adoption issues especially for the likes of docker.
01:25
(well, exclusively for docker really, as it's pre-built)
 
1 hour later…
02:46
An hour later of debugging... seems like adding git to the dockerfile and pulling directly from the latest repo is more reliable, at least for redis there was a conflict with the APIs when using the latest tars from pecl.
 
4 hours later…
07:12
@Derick The code I added to check that internal function parameter names are not repeated probably doesn't handle variadics correctly (because they aren't treated as real params internally)
07:57
@NikiC OK. But shouldn't 7.4 not really do the same thing as 8?
 
2 hours later…
10:07
No error notification or throw when returning iterator from iterator method ・ *Compile Issues ・ #80010
anyone experienced the error 413 Request Entity Too Large with Symfony 5 and nignx-proxy
10:52
@KerrialBeckettNewham According to a quick Google search, you need to increase the client_max_body_size in your nginx conf cyberciti.biz/faq/… Symfony doesn't seem to throw any 413 errors.
Also make sure upload_max_filesize and post_max_size are configured appropriately in your php.ini.
@IluTov yes, I found the same thing, but I'm using a docker image ngnix-proxy and nginx-proxy-letsencrypt, i'm not sure where to alter the configuration to increase the client_max_body_size
@KerrialBeckettNewham This one? hub.docker.com/r/jwilder/nginx-proxy Check under "Replacing default proxy settings"
11:15
@Ocramius Heard from Twitter it's your birthday, congrats! :)
Happy birthday ol bean :-)
Wes
Wes
\o
ayup Wes
@IluTov thanks, the countdown continues :P
@IluTov Legend! Thanks
11:27
@Ocramius better to think of it as a high score.
Wes
Wes
12:01
happy birthday @Ocramius \o/
I'm writing an RFC to deprecate the syntax "${var}" but not "${expr}" (difference is explained here: externals.io/message/111519#111519). Now that I'm writing it down, I'm unsure if we shouldn't just deprecate both to avoid confusion. I can't think of any valid use cases for variable variables in strings. But I already know there's gonna be a public outcry in the ML.
12:30
Morning
@IluTov There's almost no legit use for variable-variables in general outside super super niche cases =\ yet another bit of bad PHP design that's still cursing us decades on... i'd vote for deprecating
Personally I think the only thing that should survive should be {$foo} and add chaining e.g. {$foo|escape}
@MarkR I think deprecating "$foo" is impossible. It's just used too much. ${var} luckily is pretty rare.
Aye I think you're right, I just think it's extremely annoying that you're right.
"$foo" is honestly ok, mostly. At least as long as you're not fetching properties.
Or accessing offsets.
12:46
Maybe when editions come along we can nuke 2 or 3 of them... and as much as i'd like a pipeing operator, using | would remove the ability to use abitrary expressions I'd think (yay bitwise operators)
@MarkR Yeah I mentioned that to Rowan, I think more fitting would be the pipe op RFC but the syntax differs. The function would have to be wrapped in quotes.
$"#{$foo|>'escape'}" doesn't look super elegant.
"Hello {$name|>escape(?)}" using partials
@MarkR That would work too.
The question is again, do we wanna extend {$var}, because it will never be able to accept arbitrary expressions. It could technically accept anything that starts with a $.
Or, we make {} accept arbitrary expressions for $"" strings, that would work too.
I'm generally of the opinion that language features should be either as simple / clean as possible, or as flexible as possible. The worst of all design comes from half-arsing it
Downside is then you need to escape all literal braces.
@MarkR Exactly why I'm in favor of string interpolation that allows arbitrary expressions. But because you should embed huge expressions but because it avoids surprises.
 
1 hour later…
Wes
Wes
13:56
any chance to see the pipe operator implemented in future?
At least a couple of people have experimented with |>
But right now it's back-burnered because it's only really useful once we have either partials or unified function symbol tables
14:15
@Wes Yes, @Crell wants to propose it for 8.1 but is waiting for me to help with the partial application implementation.
 
1 hour later…
15:28
@IluTov "str$(1 + 2)"maybe?
At least I'd wager the pattern $( to be not that common, except maybe when writing bash directly :-D
@bwoebi That's jQuery syntax unfortunately.
I honestly think it's better to do some BC break … as long as it is possible to write the code in a backwards-compatible way
e.g. \$ in a string currently results in $, and would in future as well
and you can then automatically just patch existing code with a script
But we shouldn't compromise too much for the sake of BC otherwise we'll end up with a shitty syntax
@Wes wiki.php.net/rfc/pipe-operator-v2 - as @IluTov said, on hold pending partial application, since the general pushback was "we like it, but only if we get partial application first".
Random question: have you guys had recruiters contact you on weekends? Trying to figure out if I have a particularly aggressive recruiter who doesn't understand the meaning of weekends calling me or if it's another scam call...
@bwoebi I generally agree, but I think that would be a pretty big BC break.
Although it is weird that $ sometimes has special meaning and sometimes it doesn't.
15:38
@Tiffany A recruiter who doesn't understand weekends is a scam call, by definition.
@Crell I set a profile as public on Dice... I'm not sure if it'll result in a job, but I do get a lot of recruiters contacting me almost every day...
@cmb How is dba_*() lower hanging fruit than array_*()? People actually use the latter... :-)
But yeah, if it is a recruiter contacting me on a weekend, they're getting an earful
@Tiffany That sounds about right. Recruiters are mostly vultures.
cmb
cmb
@Crell that was irony; of course, dba_* functions are rarely used (if ever), but that particular dba_fetch() can't have any reasonable parameter names (because it's API is just borked). What I want to say: don't spend too much effort on parameter naming; there is no single best way to name them, and for some APIs there's not even a somewhat meaningful way. I just hope that people won't overdo using named parameters.
15:44
They called twice, I happened to be away from my phone both times so I missed the calls and I'm not calling it back... and google returns nothing useful on the number. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ guess I'll have to wait and see if they call back a third time
Sure, but at the same time, $array1/$array2 is just horrible. :)
@IluTov I'd be fine with $[1 + 2] as well, I can't imagine existing usages of that (well, there are, but no common ones I believe)
cmb
cmb
well, but will anybody use named parameters with array_diff()?
but I think, if we want to avoid special $"" strings or such, we pretty much have to chose some syntax starting with $ to avoid unpredictable BC breaking and allow code running on previous as well as newer versions
@bwoebi Looks a bit funky but could be a good trade off. Adding a prefix would add three more flavors of strings ($"", $<<<FOO...FOO, $``). I think it's better to avoid that if we can.
15:58
Possibly not. But I went for array_diff because explaining it in the doc with input/exclude is way more self-documenting than array1/array2. And then array_intersect is input/include, and all is self-evident.
But as noted, we can't update the docs now without updating the stubs, too.
Incidentally, any further thoughts on the doc PRs I have open? One looks done, the others I either need some direction on or I'm not sure what they're waiting for.
IMO the biggest problem with "" and interpolation is most of the time all I want is a tab or newline
@bwoebi Although the BC break for #{} is probably similarly small.
@MarkR You can newline with ' though. Then why use "?
Except that:
php > echo "\#{1}";
\#{1}
currently, and in future it would be a bare #{1}
@bwoebi Depends, we can also make \ only escape when # is followed by {
see my edit :-)
16:01
@IluTov I must have missed something then, because echo 'hello\nworld'; does not include a line break
@MarkR ah sorry, I thought you meant adding a literal newline.
@IluTov but that's at the end maximally ugly and special cased … I'd avoid that
And it just minimizes impact, but there's then a clear discrepancy
@bwoebi Yes that is true.
 
2 hours later…
user1804599
17:45
PHP is amazing.
user1804599
Only four hours in and I can already run integration tests with PHP-FPM and Nginx under Hivemind.
user1804599
But this is only the beginning. I will now experience the unbelievable joy of setting up and tearing down PostgreSQL clusters for the tests too.
22:30
am I doing this incorrectly? 3v4l.org/A1UIm trying to see how null coalesce assignment operator works
nevermind, I see what I did wrong... I gave it an empty assignment which counts for isset
however 3v4l reports the = as a syntax error, when it isn't...
@Tiffany looking at the wrong version maybe?
@bwoebi in the left of the editor, it has a red square X
@Tiffany ah, the editor…
@Sjon i.sstatic.net/sagsL.png 3v4l.org/itH5D editor doesn't like null coalesce assignment operator and reports a syntax error
23:00
PHPStorm already included v8 into language level list. Nice.

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