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00:00 - 18:0018:00 - 00:00

00:00
> As has been discussed on #46149, there doesn't appear to be a need to sacrifice support for PHP8 even if we can't upgrade the minimum.
well that just incentives making BC breaks.
00:55
> Do I understand you correctly in that you are basically prioritizing supporting PHP 5.6 - which is outdated and has no security support anymore - over supporting PHP 8.0, which is due to come out just before WP 5.6 ?
The answer "yes". Shame.
At least a few people in there are at least using a data driven mindset for it.
> Within the last year:
PHP 5.6 has reduced from 28.59% to 14.97%.
PHP 7.0 has reduced from 15.79% to 10.37%.
 
1 hour later…
02:21
@DaveRandom the Q episodes are excellent though. Just finished Deja Q.
 
1 hour later…
03:37
does anyone happen to know how much overhead there is in unpacking + packing arguments i.e. unpacking an iterable as args to a function that accepts them via a single splat'd arg, vs just passing the iterable?
ok, as logic would suggest, passing the iterable is quicker, but also as logic would suggest, the time taken to just pass the arguments around seems pretty insignificant compared to what is actually gonna be done with them
03:55
I was thinking about implementing an expected<T, ErrorType> sort of thing in PHP core and was doing some research in Rust, Swift, and C++. I'm convinced it's not worthwhile in PHP, even if we ignore the performance parts (we're not getting any sort of speedup by using this). No, it's because there are better options.
For instance, there is a try operator in Swift (and a try! macro in Rust) that basically says "if there is an error, propagate it upwards, otherwise proceed with the value."
We don't need a specific type to represent this; we can just use union types. If the value actually returned is an exception, then we throw it. Otherwise we just use the value we have.
In this way we can have error handling mechanisms in interfaces, which we don't have today outside of docblocks.
interface I {
  function m($a): I | Throwable;
}
Then callers can choose to handle it verbosely or concisely:
// verbosely
$result = $i->m($a);
if ($result instanceof Throwable) {
    throw $result;
}

// or concisely:
$result = try $i->m($a);
What are your $0.02, room11?
and if it's not handled by either, then what, it just ends up throwing a typeerror when it hits the next function?
04:29
@LeviMorrison does this imply that the class implementing I would have an m method that returns a Throwable, rather than throwing it?
05:23
@LeviMorrison so this would ship with a keyword try that throws the throwable?
try $i->m();
mobile R11... habent seen you posted that :)
@LeviMorrison you could also have a list like keyword that turns the union into a go like multi return: try ($result, $error) = $i->m();
05:48
Child classes not exist if defined before parent class ・ Class/Object related ・ #80000
06:02
SSL connection error is not reported via mysqli::$connect_error ・ MySQLi related ・ #80001
Good morning. \o
06:56
@LeviMorrison thought about it a little more, like the pragmatic approach about it very much
specifically, it could allow to reuse the existing functions fopen etc by making try some sort of "mode" that functions can pick up and it turns a notice/warning into a returned exception.
$fh = try fopen("file.txt", "r"); <- throws exception instead of emitting warning
morns
07:25
0
Q: Display Custom Attributes as Product Tabs doesn't render properly

EarleeI followed a tutorial to display custom attributes on a product page tabs, but it doesn't render properly. See screenshot below, the first tab is okay, the second tab doesn't display properly. I also tried removing one tab at a time, display it one at a time and it works properly. But adding both...

morning
I wanted to share some small achievement, I've implemented string_format('Today is {temp}C and is {cond}.', temp: 32, cond: 'sunny') similar to simplified string.format from Python which finds and replaces values searching for argument names available from 8.0 in brackets which handles replacement in ~0.020ms while str_replace substitution does that in ~0.010ms it is not bad right?
@brzuchal cool
@beberlei nice to hear, my current implementation handles positional arguments and named arguments so far without additional formatting just to string casting but was focusing on that to be as much performat as possible
user11702787
07:42
ust for understanding when I deploy a app to a cloud service are the enviroment variables also stored on that server ?
Usually they only exist for the lifetime of the process
But yes
07:57
Was there an RFC for changed behavior of min()/max() functions? 3v4l.org/pig4r It throws an exception & no longer return false.
@OndřejMirtes Not particularly, but lots of these programming error mistakes have been upgraded from warning to exception
@OndřejMirtes follows from this RFC: wiki.php.net/rfc/consistent_type_errors
hmm, I don't think I spoke with @NikiC about that for the podcast
08:22
@cmb The PR has been ready for a few days but I'm waiting for Nikita to verify. github.com/php/php-src/pull/5994
cmb
cmb
08:48
@IluTov ah, thanks! I've linked the PR to the bug report.
@cmb Thanks :)
09:00
@Derick Thank you, will look into it.
cmb
cmb
@OndřejMirtes basically, whenever a function warned about a wrong parameter type, this is elevated to a TypeError in PHP 8.
calc free space for new interned string is wrong ・ opcache ・ #80002
09:36
@MateKocsis isnt something like this more a runtimeexception? github.com/php/php-src/pull/6022/files
@cmb Yeah but empty array is still an array so it's confusing to me.
@OndřejMirtes What logical answer can you give to: what is the lowest number in an empty array?
@OndřejMirtes That's why it's a ValueError and not a TypeError :)
I'm just trying to figure out how to collect this information and what to write into my PHPStan todolist :)
When there's no comprehensive list of changes in an RFC or even an upgrading guide, it's hard...
I think PHP throwing errors instead of returning false is a good direction. Most people (me included) fail to remember checking for false all the time. PHPStan helps with that ^^ But most people don't use static analysis.
Exactly - for PHPStan to help with this it needs to know what changed and how :)
@beberlei In similar cases, we always used the Error type, ignoring SPL exceptions
@MateKocsis ah ok its an Error not a TypeError
Btw @MateKocsis thanks for powering through the warning promotion currently, cause my bandwith with them is rather limited at this time
@OndřejMirtes You can have a look at the PRs labeled "Warning promotion": github.com/php/php-src/… There's quite a few already closed, but many will be finished in the next 1 month :)
@Girgias No problem :) I chose the extensions with the smallest number of warnings :D So that the list in github.com/php/php-tasks/issues/18 looks better :D It's insane how many extensions are still not handled, even though all the prior work.
But there's no chance that I'll touch OCI8, pgsql, or iconv :D
09:47
@MateKocsis Cool, are you also updating the internal stubs? That's probably the place PHPStan will use for PHP 8.
@OndřejMirtes Yes, I'm. Unfortunately, warning promotions usually doesn't allow us to remove return types, but there were a few nice examples in ext/gmp and ext/gettext where we were able to eliminate most of the false return types.
@MateKocsis Yeah... I mean if we go through the most common ones that's already "good enough", not like we will ever get PHP warning free lol
@OndřejMirtes And just a heads up that stubs now provide type info for all parameters and return types :) (at least in PHPDoc)
@MateKocsis brrr, I feel you, DBA is kinda the one which I don't want to touch
@Girgias Yes, the same for me, too :D And I agree, if we merge all the outstanding PRs we currently have + review ext6standard, we'll be quite ok for PHP 8.0 :)
10:04
@IluTov When I used Go for a short while, I really hated its error handling mechanism. So I also think it's the right direction :)
@MateKocsis Right, I think the only other "important" ones to look at are PDO and its drivers
@Girgias and probably ext/session. As far as I saw, ext/opcache and Zend are mostly ok, the warnings there are mostly "false positives" as far as warning promotion is concerned :D
@MateKocsis Right, I think the only thing which raisde an eyebrow in Zend/ were the division by 0
Yes, I remember! I also didn't understand why it hadn't been changed to an exception yet when I saw it.
10:21
moin
When do you put your name in front of package namespace name when writing OSS library? I ckeched few packages listed on Packagist written by Benjamin, Marco, Sebastian and Jordi - some of them have their name as part of namespace name (especially Sebastians which put his name in his all libraries namespaces before library name) some not and namespace prefix PSR-4 compliant is only library/package name.
How do you decide about it?
\o
I didn't used to, I now do
package name is often not globally unique
vendor\package is much more likely to avoid conflicts
agree, but if it get more popular and contributed by many other contributors as well?
depends what the packge is called I suppose, if it's FooBar821632Gsiosnj you're probably good without the vendor name
@brzuchal it's vendor name, not necessarily person name
and you can always have a class_alias()-based transition
@DaveRandom so if I tend to write multiple general purpose libraries then creating a vendor name first and GH org solves all the issues?
10:25
afaik libeay is still part of openssl, for example
it's just a label, all that really matters is that it's unique
@DaveRandom why we don't provide function_alias equivalent?
any guess?
@brzuchal I would say "why are you worrying about branding for some theoretical open source lib that doesn't exist yet?" :-P
@brzuchal no, I have wondered that myself
@DaveRandom just curious
cmb
cmb
@DaveRandom as of OpenSSL that self-explaining name has been changed to the incomprehensible name libcrypto ;)
^ OpenSSL 1.1
ah good
although I don't mind little artefacts like that, a bit like PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAAYIM or however tf you spell it
it's a nice little nod to the original creators of something that has grown outside its original scope
almost like a little commemorative plaque
10:31
@IluTov As long as there are ways to achieve it without having to catch anything (i.e. validating the inputs beforehand), exceptions are fine … if there aren't, I want at least one soft non-exceptional way to handle it
cmb
cmb
I think this is the current rule of thumb.
Basically yeah ^
@LeviMorrison the reason why something like this works so well is that you are encouraged or required to write the type on the calling side, e.g. $result:MyType = $i->m($a); would fail, because the compiler sees that we forgot to handle some type of the union
but we don't have such variable typing in PHP, thus might not really be viable here
 
2 hours later…
12:15
3 hours ago, by Jeeves
calc free space for new interned string is wrong ・ opcache ・ #80002
That seems like a bad bug. Is there any way for that to have been automatically detected, and so for similar bugs to be detected?
I do wonder if the guy may have been confused by the struct hack in zend_string
maybe not though, haven't actually looked
but 32x sounds like an awful lot for no-one to have noticed
12:40
Morrrings
@cmb hi! have you tried to do a configure --enable-snapshot-build lately? I was getting a error + warning around the time when ext/zlib was processed, something that "directory has sub directories" or similar (thankfully the JScript errors are localized)
cmb
cmb
@Kalle yep, doing these almost all the time. :) You may need to update the dependencies (phpsdk_deps -c).
Ah! I did not do that for a while!
@cmb I noticed two other things I wanted to run by you too, I was fooling around with running the test suite and I noticed two things which seemed odd
cmb
cmb
@DaveRandom there is pointer subtraction on pointers to structs, and that looks indeed wrong
@Kalle tell :)
@cmb There is something that forces the codepage to change in the output (or at least I assume so), so the font looked really awful, like an old MSDOS prompt, I did not see where it happened but I would assume it could be one of the unicode filenames perhaps, given we print it to STDOUT
cmb
cmb
12:48
Ah, yes, that happens to me sometimes; I think it's actually related to the CP change, and probably the default font can't show all characters, so the console switches to another font. That shouldn't happen when you pass -j2(or higher) to the test runner; in that case new empty consoles show up (not super nice, but still better than the old behavior).
Hmm that is odd, because I did nmake test TESTS=-j4
It was just really hard to read anything on the console after that because it was much smaller than my usual one. I'm on a 2160p resolution so things are small enough already :p
@cmb The other thing was that sometime during nmake test, there was a php interactive shell that opened and closed instantly, I assume it was maybe some of the readline stuff or similar, at least thats the only thing I could think of that would prompt such
cmb
cmb
13:05
@Kalle I have Consolas 16pt as default font; when the switch happens, it switches to classic "raster font" 8x12 which is way smaller. I can reproduce when running ext\standard\tests\windows_mb_path\. However, that same font change happens occassionally when just opening a new console – might be a general Windows bug.
@Kalle was it really an interactive PHP shell, or just a new console window?
@cmb Yeah it was a PHP interactive shell, the shell had the PHP ico and the title said so, hence how I know it was php -a
@cmb Hmm that makes sense if it was windows_mb_path, I assume it is one of the later directories to be executed, will need to look a bit deeper into it sometime
Does anyone know a malformed string to break preg_* functions, more specific, the preg_replace?
13:20
how hard does it need to break?
adding u and passing invalid UTF-8?
@Sjon A simple preg_replace('/^auth0\|/', '', $value), where the $value is the string that I need. I'm trying to write a test to catch the failing scenario :)
@DaveRandom I've tried a couple but without success. Have a specific one in mind?
can't you just pass an invalid regex?
like mismatched parens or whatever
cmb
cmb
@GabrielCaruso I don't think that'll ever fail, since it accepts an unanchored empty string
@DaveRandom That's the path that I'm going to, make the regex an argument, and break it
@cmb Hmm, good to know, thanks :D
13:24
if you want PCRE to bork during execution (rather than pre-validation), probably just do something which overflows the recursion limit is easy and reliable
Let's see if random_bytes shines here
introducing randomness when you want consistent behaviour doesn't sound like a recipe for success :-P
@DaveRandom :p
@DaveRandom I won't disagree with your opinion on John DeLancie and his portrayal of Q, but I'm curious what you just watched.
13:51
The Type Operators page is not correct for the instanceof operator in 7.3+ ・ Documentation problem ・ #80003
 
1 hour later…
15:04
Is there a reason why we don't use MSFT's Azure Pipelines to test... on Windows with PHP? :-)
We don't already?
cmb
cmb
Because we're already testing other systems there.
MSFT has own pipelines to test a nightly snapshot, and for the releases.
15:27
also for php 8?
I like to get rid of appveyor because it's sooooo slooooow
and I don't really need 5 CI tools
Well, when you run on donated stuff you take what you can get, I suppose?
Even their premium plan at $99/month only does 2 concurrent jobs
Each run is ok, about 5 minutes, but I currently run 12 (or 16, I forgot).
I can vote for only 4 options, right? As long as I don't choose anything more than once?
Is the attribute syntax vote open again?
no, you can vote for all 6 @LeviMorrison
@Crell Yes
15:36
I mean, I am permitted to vote for just 4, not all 6, right?
No, all 6
6 options, 6 choices
Err, I can choose to vote for just 4.
just don't make a duplicate one
oh, yes, of course, you can pick fewer
but... why would you?
@LeviMorrison Correct.
@Derick Because it's too much work to vote for things I don't care about when there are bloody 6 of them...
15:38
fair enough
@@ vs @:, don't care, if STV gets that far I'll be unhappy no matter what.
@Crell I just emailed everybody that voted in the first vote to remind them it's open again
I didn't vote first time around, but good to know. :-)
/me needs to reread the rewritten RFC.
/me finds more ways to put "re" in that sentence.
@Derick thanks for the email. One question: the RFC now states: "There are multiple reasons why we believe the previous vote should be revisited" and lists options with closing delimiters but the new @{} syntax (which is noted to not have a BC break) is absent from that list. Was that just an oversight?
likely. It was a very late addition.
I'll check, thanks.
15:43
My previous votes expressed a preference for closing delimiters and not BC break (even though <<>> was pretty ugly), so I just want to be sure before I re-vote. If so, @{} looks like an even better alternative for me.
Ah, the proposal table was updated with all six (and reports their BC status) -- so probably just the bullet in the first section was missed.
Which list do you mean, it's right in the 2 item:
third*:
> We argue why we should strongly favor a syntax with closing delimiter to keep consistency with other parts of the language and propose to use #[], @[], or the original << … >> instead.
The #[] syntax provides the benefit of forward compatibility, but this also introduces some potential problems for PHP 7 code. An alternative syntax @[] was suggested to alleviate these problems which was not previously voted on. Another new syntax proposal is @{} which has the benefit of not causing a BC break.
ok
I would have expected @{} there.
Added. Also fixed favor to favour ;-)
15:51
@Derick slightly depressingly, I have come to accept that American English is the lingua franca of the internet, to the extent that it's the way I write now and my en-gb spell checker doesn't like me any more
cmb
cmb
@Derick in theory (but unused in practise). But if it's for xdebug, you can get a free account.
I already have Azure Pipelines running to test OSX
Why does Appveyor not cancel the previous build from a PR u.u
Okay it does, unless it has already started
you can just cancel them by hand
Was talking about php-src
15:56
yes, me too
How? I'm not part of the PHP organization
I would have expected only members of it can cancel builds
if it's a PR the author can as well I think
not the PR author sadly
The ones I'm currently throwing at PHP-src don't even compile currently on Win, do they die rather fast
> PHP-src
<face twitches>
pHP-sRc
pls don't ban me
16:02
s/PHP Community/userland
fite me
@Girgias ᴾₕᵖ—ₛᴿᶜ
that was so worth the time it took
@DaveRandom Let's make this our new logo
/me rolls eyes. How insecure must you be to post this: github.com/xdebug/xdebug/commit/…
The correct response is "Shut up, virtue signalling is always worth my time!"
Ignore the incels
16:10
Nah, the correct response is "block user"
^^^ 100% this
incel is just short for "I'm such a prick no woman wants to hang out with me", right?
Correct
"The can't get laid brigade", if you prefer.
@Derick put him on a … blacklist? :-D
4
Incel started as a word for women who were not conventionally attractive and so couldn't get dates, and then got usurped by the "I'm such a prick no woman wants to hang out with me" crowd, AIUI.
16:13
underrated comment @bwoebi :-)
(Because usurping terms is on-brand.)
@Crell interesting
@Crell That is actually correct. Unfortunately the original term has lost all meaning.
I don't recall exactly where I read it, so I cannot offer a citation at the moment.
the wookiepedia article is baffling...
But it does mention an Alana as coining the term
16:17
guys any idea how can I get a project to do it as freelance ?
It's really rather scary and depressing how words can have alternative completely-unrelated meaning shoved upon them then have a certain section of society demand their removal from the common lexicon.
Also: Crypto
Blacklist....?
To use a perhaps cliché phrase - 1984 was not meant to be an instruction manual.
cmb
cmb
@Girgias I'm not sure if anybody is allowed to cancel them. At least I'm not. Maybe Anatol is.
16:20
@cmb Huh, interesting
@Danack I think the "Community vote on RFCs" thread that's currently going on comes down to ML being an inadequate tool for discussions/feedback. Have you made any progress thinking about / evaluating alternatives lately?
@cmb I can though
Feel free to ping me if you want one cancelled
cmb
cmb
@Derick but why?
I mean the smart idea would have been to set-up Appveyor for my fork before me pushing out a PR
I'm a project owner, I think.
Somebody needs to tell Michael to not push after every commit
cmb
cmb
16:23
@Derick ah, indeed. That explains it. :)
16:58
Does anyone have any opinion on different mac computers? My old job gave me a $3000 mac computer but I just turned it in and now I have to buy a new one for my new job. I'm wondering if it's worth spending extra money to get the better models or if I should just stick with the $999 Macbook Air
Linux.
</troll>
I don't know how powerful I'll need it to be able to run everything I need for development
lol I use to use linux but I think I'll stick with mac now
cmb
cmb
Windows </troller>
I used to only use Windows before my job but they made me use a mac and now I don't wanna develop with windows anymore
In seriousness, you want lots of RAM, a good keyboard, and a monitor big enough for what you're doing. Which may be external if that's your preference. (It's what I do.)
Beyond that, it doesn't matter that much for web dev, frankly.
17:01
If your new job is paying for the machine, that make sure you have >=16GB of ram, and an SSD, at least.
They're not paying for it
I guess because I'm a W-2 contractor?
The downside of contracting.
And employed by a staffing firm not the actual company
Yeah, if I were 1099 I could write it off on my taxes but I think I'd still end up paying more taxes so I stuck with W-2
I don't want to get a $999 macbook air and then realize it's not near as usable as what I was developing with before, but I also don't want to get a $3000 macbook pro when I wouldn't notice much of a difference anyways
I have two large monitors so that helps. I guess the $999 has 16gb ram so it will probably suffice
Get something better, IMO.
Even if it comes out of your own pocket.
I wish there could be php-cli option like -r but that I wouldn't need to add "var_dump( )" around expression all the time
17:07
@LeviMorrison What do you suggest the minimum specs should be?
I really don't know much about hardware
For instance, watching Nikita do run-tests.php in parallel on a lot of cores (16? 32?) convinced me that the next machine I buy is going to have at least 8 cores and plenty of RAM to go with it, even if I pay for it.
Fair point; are you writing PHP or writing php-src?
Both, plus php extensions.
I mean @Alesana.
@LeviMorrison was it you that wanted to inline some macros in php-src?
17:09
@Girgias Explain a bit more?
I'm just trying to recall who said that, because I started doing a couple on a branch
By inlining the macros you mean getting rid of them and writing their body directly?
@LeviMorrison Maybe easier to show than to describe what I'm doing: github.com/php/php-src/compare/…
Personally I work from 2,5yr on mb pro2 with 8 core and 16gb ram and ssd which I got from my eployee and I find it working much worse than my personal thinkpad with the same amount of resources. I'm used to have at least 2 chrome windows with so many tabs that I cannot see the difference cause the icons are already hidden and I know I could minimize them but I won't cause I like them, I love to colelct tabs I'm used to open almost everything in new tab and it's really hard to change behaviours.
@Girgias Ah, I see. That's not quite what I was doing but yes I support it. I hate macros.
Plus you can't use macros from a debugger!
17:14
@LeviMorrison Oh, so what were you doing?
(If all instantiations actually get inlined then you can't use an inline function from the debugger either)
(unless you make a symbol somewhere explicitly)
@LeviMorrison Right but from my understanding no compiler will inline functions in debug mode
"debug" mode?
I anything besides -O0, compilers can inline
Right... for me debug mode is --enable-debug with is -O0
@Crell PHP
17:18
OK, then you don't need a beastly CPU the way Levi does.
I would like to write php-src but I don't feel like I'm experienced enough yet
(If you're doing C code, Levi's right that you'll want a much beefier CPU.)
Ah ok
I got a huge pay raise with this job so I probably should buy a pretty nice computer
@Alesana The best way to get experience is to or to write an extension, or attempt something with it, cause that's what I did :| (or enabling compiler warnings, you learn some interesting stuff about C that way :') )
@Girgias I think GCC will still inline the always inline ones.
17:20
I'll have to start trying to write some simple stuff when I have some free time
IMO a laptop should last 5ish years, and a desktop 10ish years. Buy for specs accordingly!
@LeviMorrison Huh, might be true but I'm not very knowledgable on any compiler's behaviour
What I was doing is taking static inline functions and making them inline + extern inline.
static inline is a C89-ism that has actually changed since then.
@LeviMorrison Okay, I can do that, you just need to put the extern inline in the correspong .c file with the same name as the .h (if possible)
17:26
13" is not a big screen though, but you said you had two already anyway?
@LeviMorrison Some things changed in GCC 10 though. I had to fix a few things.
I think that was with extern though..
Anything that is marked static zend_always_inline will end up with a larger binary if you do extern inline too because the symbol didn't exist before and now it does.
Yeah I have two 25 inch monitors
I have a Windows tower I used them with for the job I had before my last one
@Derick Missing extern on variables, maybe? gcc.gnu.org/gcc-10/porting_to.html
I didn't really dive into it much
But when I travel (which hopefully will be often) I'll have to develop with just the laptop. My last job I had a 13 inch and I still managed to get stuff done without monitors
17:30
@Alesana Personally I doubt it. Mac is charging a premium on hardware, but a 4 core machine @ 2GHz seems much too weak to last you 5 years.
I'd still consider at least a 14/15" if you'll be using it regularly.
It looks like the 16" has a 2.3GHz 8-Core Processor, it's almost the same GHz but more cores
I don't really know the difference
That one is their most expensive laptop I think
But then it says Turbo Boost up to 4.8GHz
These days, more cores is usually more valuable than more hertz, at least if the hertz are in the same neighborhood.
Turbo will only happen if you have enough power available and thermal budget (you need cooling, basically)
I don't think you can do much customization to the macbooks right?
17:35
Nope.
Do you guys use mac?
Isn't Apple moving to their own silicone too?
@Girgias Yeah I read about that
I've been 100% Linux at home for about 16 years.
@Alesana Yes. It's alright; would prefer Linux.
17:36
I don't know if it'd be worth it to wait for it
My previous job used a Mac laptop they provided. I never liked it.
All my personal machines are Windows/Linux dual-boots. Family needs Windows for various things.
But for work I use Mac.
Ah yeah. I would be scared with just linux that I wouldn't be able to run some things that I need
Either now or in the future
Those are few and far between these days, frankly. Especially for developers.
Mostly in the high-end graphics realm.
Can you still dual boot mac with Linux?
17:38
I presume so, but I have no idea how well it works these days.
That should be sufficient in that case
Making sure you get a model that plays nice will take a little research first. I have no knowledge there.
Good call
Well you guys may have convinced me to get the most expensive macbook option lol
/me pings Apple for his commission.
Bear in mind, odds are you won't be traveling a ton for the foreseeable future due to the world ending, so portability matters a bit less than it would normally.
I got an X1 Carbon because I spent so much time on planes between conferences, but that's likely not a big factor for the next year or two.
Hopefully this doesn't last more than another year
17:42
The US is right fucked for at least another year minimum.
:(
I'm wondering if I can go to one country and quarantine for a couple weeks then from there be able to travel to other countries that I would want to
I have a remote job now so really I'd like to move to a cheaper country
I dunno there.
I suspect we're all just kinda screwed.
You might be right
I frequently don't like being right.
I had tickets to see my family in Argentina in December but that got cancelled. I hope I can go see them within the next couple years :/
I didn't have high expectations for the people of this country so I wasn't expecting anything grand, but I am still just taken back by how horrible we've dealt with it
I've lost a lot of respect for friends that don't wear masks
17:49
I am on record publicly saying "anyone who still supports Trump and the GOP after this debacle is a bad person and I want nothing to do with you."
A lot of people I know throw gatherings every weekend.
These people are why we can't have nice things.
I've physically seen my parents once since this all started. I usually had dinner with them weekly.
:/ yeah it's very frustrating
I'm quarantine with my parents
So I have not interacted with many people for that reason. That I don't want to get them sick.
But my younger family all they do is party lol
We botched the lockdown initially. Not tight enough, didn't last long enough.
Not enough support so that people could actually follow it.
17:56
You guys think it will last another year?
Do you guys think there would be a big difference between 512GB SSD, 2.6GHz 6-Core Intel Core i7 vs 1TB SSD, 2.3GHz 8-Core Intel Core i9 Processor
@SalOrozco yes
Until there is a vaccine
Assuming it's a long-lasting and affordable vaccine.
17:56
And I don't mean a fake-Russian vaccine
There's only a $300 difference between the two but I would like to keep the price closer to $2k
@Crell Healthcare is free here ;-)
If not, wealthy people will get a monthly booster and the poor will keep dying. It's the American way.

It also depends on if we get competent leadership in Washington.
Every drug costs £9.40 (or so)
17:57
In a decade or so I may move to another country. One with a better climate. Seems like nearly everywhere is really not taking major issues seriously, like this pandemic, climate change, etc. So I may as well move somewhere that suits my hobbies, like growing food.
So all that talk about being close to a vaccine is false?
You live in a relatively civilized country.
Historically I was worried about safety and such, but the US continues to degrade there so...
There are two candidates currently in a phase 3 trial.
Which is great, but they take 6-9 months, and it might show it isn't effective
17:58
Vaccine timing is still all guesswork at this point.
phase 2 showed that it created anti bodies, but in order to know whether it has long lasting effects, you... need to wait that long
They are all at accelerated paces, so we won't know as many effects or their long lasting bits as well as normal vaccines.
What if you already had the virus.
I think I had it when it started.
I think they believe you can catch it twice
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