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12:22 AM
@SammyK Ohh, that's not bad at all.
And that little outro is SO getting included.
omg, pmsl over here right now
Official public version of the video is up: youtu.be/lun5yichGmc
3
 
12:55 AM
And CC'd
btw, I did speed up your music by 6% just to give it a little more punch
 
 
3 hours later…
3:49 AM
LOL
 
 
4 hours later…
7:27 AM
Might be a stupid question but anyone knows why we use smart branches? Do they actually improve performance or is it just a mere micro optimization?
 
7:56 AM
When you're writing a scripting engine, aren't they the same thing?
 
8:07 AM
Not really. For example, VM handlers specialization cannot be considered a micro optimization since it actually improves performance by a huge factor.
 
 
2 hours later…
10:10 AM
@moliata stackoverflow.com/a/1851905/1320374 Not sure if they improve performance. Probably not.
We'd have to measure though to be sure. Luckily we use a macro so that should be rather simple.
 
@IluTov in our case it's not just a branch prediction, but actually skipping the jmpz opcode
and the EXPECTED() in this particular case should be resolved at compilation time given the specializations
 
@Derick Huh, thanks, I'll have a look at that
@bwoebi Ok, but I think @moliata was just referring to branch prediction.
Given the recommendation to remove it it would be interesting to see if there's any difference at all. Probably negligible.
@Derick There's a test for both of those, works locally. Not sure why that crashes on 3v4l.org.
 
@IluTov you know what the single individual hotspot in the VM is, right?
 
@bwoebi Nope
 
@IluTov the indirect jump in zend_execute, i.e. calling the opcode handler function
it's missing about every single branch prediction
and the pipeline stalls there while it's resolving the opcode / loading the instrs from L2/L3 cache
(if it would guess that branch correctly, it could just jump to the prefeched instrs)
 
10:50 AM
@IluTov That's why I CC-ed @Sjon ;-)
 
@bwoebi Well, you clearly know more about this topic so I just trust your judgement on this one :)
 
@Derick thanks - I'll look into it
 
@Derick @Sjon Nevermind, there's an issue, I'll look into it.
 
@IluTov why are people in that thread reporting they are unable to reproduce it, is that an problem with the binary on 3v4l?
 
@Sjon No clue. The first example is definitely broken.
 
11:04 AM
gdb shows __strlen_avx2. If you want my help let me know - I can reproduce the segfault on another machine as well
 
@Sjon It's ok, I can reproduce it. It's related to delayed emission of some opcodes (like dim in this example).
 
okay. I got triggered by people reporting to be unable to reproduce on reddit suggesting the3v4l build was to blame :)
 
12:02 PM
@bwoebi Can you tell me how I can trigger nested delayed opline stacks?
(in the compiler)
It's annoying, an opcode must delayed, but only sometimes. And then I need to access that opline to modify an operand, but at that point I don't know how much of the delayed opline stack has been moved.
 
@IluTov @bwoebi I was referring to smart branches in a sense that we perform jump operations from within comparison opcodes if the next opcode is a JMPZ
I don't know whether doing a respective jump operation from within a comparison opcode really makes anything much faster
 
12:30 PM
@IluTov simple nested array access should be sufficient
(i.e. $a[1][2][3])
@moliata the simplest case to measure speedup is something like for ($i = 0; $i < 100000; ++$i);
 
@bwoebi Oh sorry, that works, probably because the nullsafe op only jumps to after the last dim when all the delayed ops have been moved.
 
@moliata As in, loop conditions are something which are executed really often… and then you do definitely notice the smart branch speedup
 
Wes
12:50 PM
android successor is going to be called fuchsia.....
or with ck, most likely
 
1:23 PM
@bwoebi Apparently only this causes nested delayed oplines: $foo[$bar['baz']]
 
2:07 PM
@Sjon Some memory corruption things don't always make things crash, but just produce wrong results :-)
 
2:25 PM
Good morning.
 
 
1 hour later…
3:37 PM
/Users/Bob/php-src-X/ext/uv/php_uv.c:1131:14: warning: suggest braces around initialization of subobject [-Wmissing-braces]
        zval tmp = {0};
                    ^
                    {}
/Users/Bob/php-src-X/ext/uv/php_uv.c:1171:17: warning: missing field 'u1' initializer [-Wmissing-field-initializers]
        zval tmp = {{0}};
                       ^
sigh, what's the right way, I don't want to write {{0},{0},{0}} ???
./ext/pdo/pdo_stmt.c:	zval grp_val, *pgrp, retval, old_ctor_args = {{0}, {0}, {0}};
but apparently that's what needs to be done
how stupid
zval params[4] = {{{0}, {0}, {0}}, {{0}, {0}, {0}}, {{0}, {0}, {0}}, {{0}, {0}, {0}}};
that's peak ugliness
I guess I'll just use -Wno-missing-braces for ext/uv
 
3:59 PM
@Derick @Sjon github.com/php/php-src/pull/5994 I'll have to wait for Nikita to verify the patch. Thanks for the heads up.
 
Is this the yacc implementation PHP uses? gnu.org/software/bison/manual
 
@Crell yes
 
Cool. Let's see if I can wrap my head around it then.
 
4:17 PM
@IluTov Ugh, going to have so much "fun" on making VLD work again this time.
I get so many funny emails since I started doing the podcast.
Hi Derick,
My name is Lisa I just came across your article and I really enjoyed it. It was very well written and I think you are exactly the type of person we want to work with.
I am reaching out because I own a few online casino brands and work with few online gaming platforms and I think this would be great for your website audience. Are you open to
potentially publishing our gambling related articles? This is written by us. This would involve us providing you with some gambling specific content that would contain one link
Another one that's going to get the "Fuck off" response.
 
Don't reply to spam :P also morning all
 
4:51 PM
yes, that's my "fuck off" response - no reply.
Morning?! On what ffing planet do you live?
 
5:04 PM
was up working until 8am again trying to get ffmpeg to align thumbnails to the correct timestamps, didnt wake up until gone 4
 
@MarkR Lol, I thought my sleep schedule was bad ^^
 
weekedays i have to be up for a daily meeting at 1:30pm then i usually work through until 5 or 6am, maybe get a couple of hours nap during the day if I can
 
@MarkR Wait how many hours a day are you working? :O
 
usually somewhere between 10 to 15, bit less on weekends or when there's housework to be done
my plan to take things a bit easier after the latest version launched.... went out the window as soon as the pandemic hit.
 
5:24 PM
@MarkR Dude, how do you even 🤯
 
No life, few friends, an insane amount of responsibility on my shoulders, and a healthy dose of crippling imposter syndrome and probably a splattering of mild autism for good measure \o/
I mean I'm probably going to be dead by 40 but that's not going to be my problem
 
are you at least being paid enough for that? if not, why?
 
5:40 PM
(British people don't like talking about salaries, I've found out)
 
No amount of money is worth those kind of hours. And no company deserves that kind of loyalty (bar your own company and even that is debatable). Your should look around the market. The "no life" bit may be something of a chicken and the egg situation.
 
I'm paid fairly well, although yeah like Derick said, and this is a open chat log with my name attached
 
@MarkR Well, I guess the question is do you enjoy it? that will ultimately determine whether it is worth it or not. It doesn't sound enjoyable to me.
 
@MarkR I find this reluctance to talk about salary odd. In Norway it's even published publicly :D (Which goes a bit too far IMO). In the Netherlands people have no problem discussing it.
And neither do I, so if you want to ask, ask :-)
 
i do work too much, but at least its my own company and i am making at the high end that you could potentially get as a salaried engineer in Germany.
 
5:44 PM
What's high end salaried engineer in DEUTSCHLAND?
 
100k €
 
(sorry, that's a word I have to shout ;-) )
I was at £99k at Mongo. Last year: £30k, because my boss is cheap :-)
 
@Derick may I ask why? I feel like there's a joke somewhere
 
I'd eventually like to break the 100k barrier.
 
Seems like I'm the only person who works as little as possible (on my day job at least) :P Money is not that important to me, I'd rather spend my time on other things I enjoy.
 
5:48 PM
@MarkR You can break the 100k barrier without working yourself to death. Please, no working yourself to death. If your company can't figure out how to get its job done without over-working its employees, it doesn't deserve to be a company.
I've never had a job that regularly required more than 40 hours a week, and I'm over 100k USD now.
 
Salaries in the UK are different than salaries in the US, I've learned
 
@Derick The right word is Teutonien
 
Also true.
 
much different
 
Yeah salaries in the UK are a lot lower than the US
 
5:49 PM
@Crell How old are you if I might ask?
 
@Crell That feels like C-level in the UK/Europe
 
How old would you guess? ;-)
 
@Girgias not quite
C level in europe is still a couple times more
 
EU/UK has worker protections by law that the US doesn't have :P
 
@Crell No clue, I would've said somewhere in your late 20ies :) But your salary tells me I'm off :P
 
5:50 PM
Here in the UK an experienced PHP programmer might earn £40k a year
 
Aw, thank you. :-) I turn 40 this fall.
 
@Crell what the actual fuck xD
 
It's up to the employer to give incentive working here
 
lol.
 
Yeah please take it as a compliment ^^
 
5:51 PM
@bwoebi Tbh I wouldn't know much, but 100k feels like a lot, the only thing I know is that 100k in Silicone valley is not "that much" due to living costs
 
@IluTov honestly… age and salary are not necessarily related
 
To be fair, my gravatar picture in here is a decade out of date.
 
@Tiffany I'm my own boss. I'm not travelling and don't need more. By leaving it in my company, I pay less tax.
 
At least you've got something with your face :')
 
@Crell I saw you in a recent stream, didn't notice a big difference ^^
 
5:52 PM
I have the benefit that I have almost complete autonomy within the company I work for. Which is why I've resisted expanding with a team. But it's a double edged sword as its all on my shoulders
 
100k in SV gets you half a studio apartment you share with 3 other people. In civilized parts of the country it's very good money.
:kiss:
 
@Crell 47.
 
@Derick I mean shouting Deutschland :P
 
@MarkR Although as a contractor in London, you can do £500/600 a day
 
@MarkR reasons why I ended up not doing PHP dev…
 
5:54 PM
@Tiffany Oh LOlL. You can only speak German by shouting. It's a shouty language.
 
@Derick just quite some Germans have that weird accent…
 
Ja ja apfelstrudel.
 
@Derick Is that long term salaried or just contract to contract?
 
@Derick that sounds yummy
 
@Derick May I get one now?
 
5:55 PM
@MarkR What is? The £30k? No, that's with DR Ltd pays me in dividends on top of the minimal PAYE salary.
I tried making apfelstrudel before, it was not a success. I'm much better at pancakes and curries :-)
 
I thought they killed off the lower dividends benefits? Or was that just the IR35
 
A little, but there is still a free allowance.
I am not getting hit by IR35...
 
@MarkR i dont understand uk salarys, you seem to all get collective underpaid. 42-45k€ is year 1 bachelor salary in germany
 
@beberlei The big problem in the UK is that house price inflation is absolutely crazy. I live in Yorkshire which is considered a relatively poor northern area, my house worth around £230k here would be half a million in the south.
 
I interviewed at a couple of UK companies earlier this year, I realized that what I wanted in salary (since they didn't offer health insurance) was vastly lower than what I could find here...
 
5:58 PM
@MarkR My flat is worth £650k :-/
@Tiffany You don't need health insurance in the UK
it's free
 
I mean, what I'm asking for in salary is pretty low compared to most places, but it's in the higher end in UK
@Derick no shit :P
 
A 4 bedroomed detatched in my area is in the 2 to 3 hundred thousand range.
 
@MarkR About what my deposit was.
 
but in the US, employers are expected to provide health insurance
 
On a 75m² flat.
(We didn't need that much, but we had saved/inheritance)
 
6:00 PM
A fair chunk more if you get closer to the city, but nowhere near south prices and lightyears away from London prices
 
better to pay it up front and end up paying less to the bank in interest.
 
75 m^2 for 700k € is normal here
 
Where do you love?
 
I was looking at emigrating to the UK earlier this year, pre-pandemic, it's almost impossible for me to get a work visa at my skill level, but if I found a US remote job that didn't care which country I lived in, I could move somewhere that health insurance isn't necessary
 
live*
I don't want to know your love life
 
6:02 PM
@Derick Luxembourg at the edge of the city
haha
 
One thing that I did get out of Mongo was shares.
 
It's a bit cheaper if you build the whole appartment house yourself… but the individual appartments will definitely clock in at 700k for 75 m^2
 
I pay 375 USD a month for apartment rent
 
When you're giving the square meters is that the base-size of the building or all the floors combined?
 
but I'm not sure the exact size
 
6:04 PM
All combined in my case.
 
And renting here is about ~1400 €, without additional fees included (75 m^2)
 
good lord
 
Mortgage is £1930/month here :-)
 
if I bought a house, supposedly my mortgage would be lower than I pay in rent, but I don't want to own a house
 
We could afford it, so we only have (had) a 21yr one, instead of the usual 30yr.
higher price, but a lot less overall interest.
 
6:07 PM
Damn, my mortage is £650
 
paid off sooner too
 
we've 15yr left, unless we over pay. And I might just do that due to MDB stock, and/or the bank becoming annoying if we need to re-sign up to a new fixed term (because I'm now self employed).
 
If you buy a house / appartment here, you can pay off the mortgage with your rent at the start (and later, obviously, thanks to inflation, you get a small return on top)
… but you need to have enough money to get a mortgage at all first :-D
 
Anyway, the lady of the house has informed me that she's hungry, and is demanding dinner. Time to make ourselves some curry. Photos on Twitter soon :-) ttyl folks!
 
enjoy
 
6:10 PM
@Derick I'm self employed and they threw offers at me after I gave them the required 3 years of tax returns, so you shouldn't have an issue id think
 
That's good to hear.
I've nearly 10 years of company accounts too.
 
Aye I hear that. No-one wants to get caught off-guard with a HMRC anal probe.
UK HMRC = US IRS
 
6:30 PM
What MVC really is?
MVC has always become a buzz around the developer's community. It has been differentiated in so many categories. Someone may call it a design pattern OR a framework OR three-tier architectural pattern. Never really understand in which category it becomes and why need to use it? Is there any better alternative?
 
MVC works in applications, takle a look at en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action%E2%80%93domain%E2%80%93responder
 
what I understood is
MVC isn’t a framework but a framework can be MVC
 
@Exception That's right. MVC just means "Don't mix your business logic, view logic and data" but not much more than that.
 
I was always under the impression that the issue with MVC was you were mixing up your view and business logic
 
So basically Model is more fatter than other 2..
 
6:41 PM
@MarkR Yeah, MVC doesn't really have the concept of services (I think) so often you'd end up with bloated controllers and duplicated code.
@Exception Well, IMO the whole MVC part should be rather simple, most of your actual business logic should live in reusable, decoupled, testable services.
 
I'm a fan of big chonky models, although it does mean almost all my data is bound to a ORM-like DB object
/me looks behind me in case Ocramius is coming at me with a knife
 
how can I turn a warning off in an extension? :x
compiler warning, if I do CFLAGS="$CFLAGS -Wno-blabla", then the Zend CFLAGS are applied too late
 
A semicolon before the extension= should do the trick
 
giving me something like "-Wno-blabla -Wall -Wextra"
which is the wrong order :-(
 
I was working on something last night, but it led me to a question - is it possible to test curl functions using fakes? e.g. I have an object with a few getter methods that return http_response_code and returns 200, 404, 403, or whichever, based on the method I call.... I'm not sure if I'm approaching the problem in the right way either, the problem I'm trying to solve is testing what HTTP code curl receives, and trying to avoid arbitrary URLs ... if this is too rambly I'll try to add clarity
 
6:56 PM
Don't use CURL directly
 
but I wanna :P
at least for this
 
You should wrap it in your own request class and then use an interface for making the requests.
 
ah
 
That way when you're in production you can use the concrete class that makes the actual request, and in test you can use a concrete class which returns error codes
Dependency mocking :-)
 
this wouldn't be something that'd go into production, I'd use a library better suited to it, but this was more of an exercise to see how to do it
 
7:02 PM
gist.github.com/marandall/95d2abcb3bd6051f5d888e674d0f5072 probably wrong, I typed it straight into gist
 
those names, lol
but better than foo/bar/baz
so if I wanted to test that something would blow up, I would force the error?
 
Yes, you would perform your tests on a "new GoBoomRequesty", in production you would use a "new LegitRequesty" - and all your type hints etc would be against RequestyInterface
 
alright, thanks
 
Do you've decoupled your error handling logic from your error-causing logic, make sense?
 
yes
 
7:39 PM
serialize() on an object returning a string that can't be unserialized() ・ SPL related ・ #79978
 
8:04 PM
@Tiffany Anonymous classes that simulate the behavior you want are an excellent way of handling that.
So you don't even need to define a formal GoBoomRequesty if all you want is a method that throws an exception no matter what you do.
 
@Crell Yes, but then you don't get to call it GoBoomRequesty, and that's just boring.
 
$boom_boom = new class implements Request {
  public function send() {
    throw new BoomException();
  }
}
$c = new ClassUnderTest($boom_boom);
 
8:32 PM
lol
 
class Honest\ThisWontGoBoom\IPromise { ... }
 
8:49 PM
No $boom_boom is reserved for new BasilBrush()
 
@Sara pinging you on behalf of derick sent you an email. he has rookie problems getting his phone to log into R11, :-p
also realizing we two owe you and gabriel a fair amount of drinks for disturbing the otherwise quiet job of being an RM ^^
 
9:05 PM
Whenever you get back from your vacation @StatikStasis @Ekin and I produced a thing again soundcloud.com/user-892484758-236707652/3-wip/s-StPtIew7mpV :)
 
9:25 PM
@Sara // PSYCH
 
 
1 hour later…
10:49 PM
@Sara Haha! I love it! :D
 

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