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12:19 AM
@Derick in fairness, I do have a foam war hammer :D
 
12:57 AM
Whats for dinner.
 
 
1 hour later…
1:58 AM
@SalOrozco I had pie. It was yummy, but one of the more unhealthy options for dinner...
 
2:12 AM
I had a vegan take on an enchilada. Was good.
 
What kind of Pie.
Vegan enchilada interesting.
 
@SalOrozco single serving of cherry and apple...
They're these tiny pies at Walmart and I'm a sucker for them
@LeviMorrison I think I'm going to make more of an effort to shift my diet to vegetables. I'm not sure I'll be able to completely stop eating meat, but I can certainly eat less.
 
@Tiffany Do you cook much or mostly buy pre-packaged food? Asking because pre-packaged vegan meals are surprisingly not hard to find.
 
Prepackaged because I'm lazy, and cooking for one sucks
 
I love cooking, but I always eat too much. So for now I'm doing pre-packaged (and therefore portioned) vegan meals.
 
2:26 AM
Do you have any suggestions of brands? Like do you purchase store brand or something else?
 
I am trying out various delivery services (which are more expensive) because my local grocery store has a limited selection, though I buy some stuff there.
Healthy Choice's Mango Edamame is almost vegan (has a dash of honey) but I bet it's available nationwide.
Currently trying veestro.com's delivery.
 
3:09 AM
@LeviMorrison I need to avoid delivery services until I have a stable income (that is, a job), but I'll check for Healthy Choice next time I'm at the store. Thanks.
 
4:06 AM
I will look out for tinny cherry and apple pies next time I'm at Walmart.
I been cooking since I been working from home. It's fun trying/ learning new recipes. Don't like the prepping and cleaning up part. Also been eating way too much.
 
@LeviMorrison regarding the Stack Frame I was thinking of adding limit and offset to getTrace but now I think I can also add getFrame($index) would it be useful?
It'd get too much params if I add $options like debug_backtrace() have :/
 
4:27 AM
Assertion `p->refcount > 0' failed. ・ Scripting Engine problem ・ #79813
 
5:23 AM
Can't Compile PHP On Windows ・ *Compile Issues ・ #79814
Segfault in zend_string_release_ex ・ Scripting Engine problem ・ #79815
Assertion `0' failed. in _zend_is_inconsistent ・ Scripting Engine problem ・ #79816
Assertion `0' failed. in __zval_get_string_func ・ Scripting Engine problem ・ #79817
Segmentation fault in _build_trace_args ・ Scripting Engine problem ・ #79818
Segfault in zend_std_write_property ・ Scripting Engine problem ・ #79819
double-free causing heap corruption ・ Reproducible crash ・ #79820
Segfault in zend_get_properties_for ・ Scripting Engine problem ・ #79821
 
5:48 AM
Quite the fuzzing.
 
5:59 AM
Git mergin'.
 
Hello friends
I need job some one help me to find
 
7:04 AM
Is there a better way of saying to a usergroup "I don't like using zoom, and I'm not going to attend any more online meetups while you're still using it."
Given that private attempts to get them to use whereby have failed.
 
getting people to move platforms is always hard
 
The really annoying thing is I told them that using zoom was not going to be good enough before we had our first online meetup due to the rona. But yeah...now they've got it setup they don't want to change.
For the record, I had and still have strong feelings that the 'local user social' bit of a meetup needs to be split from the 'professional presentation' of a meetup: gist.github.com/Danack/ca96342c174a6ff232a3537263ba1ffe
 
7:21 AM
@DejanMarjanović so is Instana ;)
 
7:32 AM
zval_ptr_dtor(OBJ_PROP_NUM(frame_object, 3));
ZVAL_STR_COPY(OBJ_PROP_NUM(frame_object, 3), func->common.scope->name);
Do I need zval_ptr_dtor if the frame_object is newly created? I guess not.
These prop are declared with null values.
 
cmb
7:54 AM
@MarkR, ugh, there are issues with the GD resource to object migration: github.com/Jan-E/php7-ffmpeg/commit/…. It seems we need to export these functions.
 
@cmb gd structure should be okay to export, given how simple it is
@cmb Actually, it would be better to not export the structure and just add a function that returns the internal gd image pointer from the object. That's all that's needed, right?
 
Sorry got distracted trying to fix a windows service... turns out I'd kept putting reddit-server instead of redis-server, heh
Taking a read through the comments
 
cmb
8:10 AM
@NikiC yes, I think so.
 
@cmb I can see you're busy. Is there anyone else who can look at pecl account requests?
 
@Derick (or anyone) is there any particular benefit to specifying the Etc/UTC vs just plain UTC? Is there anything using timezones that doesn't accept the shorter version as a valid timezone name?
 
cmb
@Danack sorry, totally forgotten about that. Not quite sure what's exactly the problem; if it's not Windows related, Remi Collet might be the better contact. :)
@Stephen see the warnings at the top of php.net/manual/en/timezones.others.php
 
@NikiC Thanks for all the reviews, hopefully my next contributions will be less tiring for you ^^ I'll look at the last comments tonight and hopefully then it will be ready to be merged.
 
@cmb yeah I'd seen that - which would imply that Etc/UTC is not only longer, it's only supported for BC reasons.
 
8:19 AM
@cmb It's the pecl account request that presumably needs a yes/no button pressing somewhere. news-web.php.net/php.pecl.dev/16815 . Does Remi has the power to approve/deny those accounts?
 
cmb
@Danack the PECL account request has already been approved: pecl.php.net/user/sergeykleyman
 
ah cool. thanks. I couldn't see the normal approval email, and sergey had asked me to chase just before....
 
cmb
I don't know why these mails are no longer sent (or have they never been sent at all; PHP account request approvals/rejections do sent mail).
 
8:45 AM
@Stephen Don't use Etc/UTC, it's a BC only link → docs.php.net/manual/en/timezones.others.php
 
@Derick That's what I figured reading that page earlier, thanks for confirming specifically.
 
Okay, time to retag 7.4.8
 
cmb
\o/
 
@Derick for the ini issue?
 
yes
@NikiC turned out to be the same issue that I ran into the other week :-/
 
8:52 AM
how is it 2020, INI files have been around for what? 40-ish years.. but no one has created an "outtie" file format yet?
has the world no sense of humour?
 
there is no outialisation
 
@Derick thats just what they want you to think.
"they" just want to preserve the ini (innie) superiority over outties.
 
@Derick Is the reason why add, modify and sub aren't listed in the DateTimeInterface due to them being slightly different (i.e. one modifies the called object), even though they have the same signature?
@Stephen I think possibly, you might want to make it more obvious that you're talking about belly-buttons, because you're currently kind of living dangerously....
or naively.
 
@Danack ... was that really not obvious?
 
9:07 AM
@Stephen Some words become ruder over time. I think for a lot of people, the word might not be as obviously belly-button related as you might think.
 
@Danack ... perverts. lol
 
...
 
@Danack These methods aren't part of the interface
 
Yes. I was wondering why.
The context is I have some code that has a parameter that could be typed as DateTimeInterface, but I want to call add() on it. So it needs to be typed as DateTime|DateTimeImmutable.
 
surely calling add without knowing which would be dangerous
like not knowing if something has been passed to you by reference
 
cmb
9:19 AM
Why? According to the docs "Like DateTime::add() but works with DateTimeImmutable.", so there's no issue. :p
 
because it will change the caller's data
the safer approach would be to force it to an immutable with something like if ( ! $foo instanceOf DateTimeImmutable ) { $foo = DateTimeImmutable::createFromMutabale($foo); }
 
They aren't part of the interface, because add() on DateTime is not behaving like add() on DateTimeImmutable(). If you want to pick a specific behaviour, type on that (DateTime or DateTimeImmutable), and convert before you pass in with DateTimeImmutable::createFromMutable or DateTime::createFromImmutable
 
@Danack literally ran into this exact scenario today, with setTimezone.
 
@Danack DateTimeImmutable::createFromInterface($x)->add()
... in PHP 8 :P
 
    <UndefinedInterfaceMethod>
        <errorLevel type="suppress">
            <file name="lib/Params/ProcessRule/EarlierThanParam.php"/>
            <file name="lib/Params/ProcessRule/LaterThanParam.php"/>
        </errorLevel>
    </UndefinedInterfaceMethod>
Also works.....for some value of works.
 
9:29 AM
@NikiC I forgot we added that
it's not documented though
 
cmb
@Derick PHP manual is not supposed to document PHP 8.0 yet; could submit PRs to github.com/php/doc-en/…, though
Or is it about UPGRADING? Should be documented there.
 
Hello :) How to work with excess memory limit in production? Best for me is dump memory profile in case of OOM, but that means to enable php-memprof all time in production?
 
I thought UPGRADING only contained changes, not new things?
And I didn't add it... somebody else did, and they should write the docs ;-þ
 
@DmitryMiksIr I think it depends on what libraries you're using, and what could be causing the OOM. If you're using mysqli or pdo and it's that, you could just put some code in that warns when too many rows are being returned by a query....
@DmitryMiksIr also, something like tideways.com would probably be more appropriate for you than just memprof.
 
Just to log mysql responses is good idea, It can solve some but not all OOM.
We are using newrelic but look like its not enough....
 
cmb
9:44 AM
@Derick no, also new features and functions (there are separate sections for those); UPGRADING serves as guideline for the migration guide in the PHP manual. What's not in UPGRADING, is likely overlooked then.
 
fair enough
 
Hm... tideways looks different vs newrelic...
 
yeah, one's an external tool for monitoring, the others more for isolating and investigating errors.
 
hm... I hope I will not broke tideways with mine load...
 
10:08 AM
yo phomies
 
cmb
moin
 
A wild Joe appeared
 
o/
 
@NikiC in PhpToken creation you call zval_ptr_dtor before each ZVAL_STR_COPY what is it needed for?
I mean the places where string is populated into PhpToken property
 
10:15 AM
to destroy whatever was set as the previous property
it dtors what is currently in the property slot before copying the string to it ... it's true that it should be null, however since nothing enforces that it should be null, it might a good idea to dtor the slot before using it ...
 
@JoeWatkins context?
 
@NikiC in PhpToken creation you call zval_ptr_dtor before each ZVAL_STR_COPY what is it needed for?
I mean the places where string is populated into PhpToken property
 
@JoeWatkins In __construct? Because you can call __construct multiple times
 
ah that'll be it ...
@JoeWatkins In __construct? Because you can call __construct multiple times
 
@DmitryMiksIr tideways founder here :-) If you have questions. I can guarantee you are not breaking us with your load :D
 
10:28 AM
@beberlei awesome :) And anyways there is no reason to send all traffic for profiling... on node is enough....
 
@JoeWatkins @NikiC Thank you so much.
 
@DmitryMiksIr for memory profiling, the approach is to start collecting some data and see from the list of transactions/endpoints what their actual memory requirements are, then you can go deeper into those transactions and either already see from the timeline based traces what is responsible, or trigger the callgraph profiler to get memory consumption on a function level (support.tideways.com/category/84-generating-traces)
 
Would providing a WeakRef instead of object reference in Exception stack trace and in debug_backtrace() alternative at least partially solve bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=45351 ?
Then it would be consistent between StackFrame::getTrace() and Exception::getTrace() which for debug_backtrace() compatibility can be resolved on dimension read.
Well if first can change stack trace population in Exceptions.
 
@beberlei and what best way to profile daemons? For newrelic we are starting new transaction each loop (each bus message for example)
 
@IluTov github.com/php/php-src/pull/5825 Dmitry finished the jumptable patch
The magic I was missing is that dasm will compile lea r0, [>N] into a RIP-relative lea
 
10:39 AM
@DmitryMiksIr yes the same way, you need some manual instrumentation. see the generic docs on it here support.tideways.com/article/… and an example using laravel queues here: support.tideways.com/article/76-laravel
 
@brzuchal I just linked that bug as I thought it was related :)
 
@GabrielCaruso It's ok I got that. Just looking for a solution and a WeakRef is the only thing in my mind, correct me if I'm wrong
 
@beberlei Ok, thanks... what a delay between real event and interface shown? If out response time raised up - how fast we can see it?
 
@NikiC Awesome! Hopefully with that I can hack together the same for match :) Thanks to you and Dmitry!
 
@DmitryMiksIr ~60 seconds
 
10:47 AM
@beberlei ok, thanks. Will see how our sre and dev will love the tideways :)
 
Morning
 
Can I announce PHP 8.0.0alpha2 on my own Twitter, or should I use the @official_php account for it?

cc @Derick
 
11:05 AM
@cmb Any idea about the failing Windows ob test?
 
cmb
That fails as of github.com/php/php-src/commit/…. That refactoring looks good to me, but maybe there is an underlying JIT issue?
 
@GabrielCaruso I'll tweet from @official_php once all the three releases are done
 
@Derick Perfect, thanks!
 
we need to wait for 7.4.8 windows rebuilds at the moment
 
Yeap, I've seen the emails bouncing here and there
 
cmb
11:12 AM
may take ~1hr
 
@cmb huh, weird. not seeing any connection there
 
@cmb No rush, was more of a question not to spam Twitter :D
 
cmb
11:30 AM
@NikiC the test crashes only with JIT, and apparently only for release builds (backtrace). I guess there's some issue with inlined stack frames.
 
11:44 AM
Hey guys! I'm new to PHP and I was wondering if maybe you could give me some insights regarding the trouble about my code that I ran into earlier
any kind of help would be greatly appreciated!
 
cmb
 
@JoeWatkins twitter.com/krakjoe/status/1274521570426437633 can't can be won't or doesn't know how. Why is it wrong to teach someone how to use debugger regardless of the professional level? (or it's not wrong)
 
@cmb ijit
 
@DejanMarjanović I don't think he was saying that :-)
 
11:52 AM
> If you don't have your development environment setup to debug the collaborative environment, or the requisite knowledge to do so, knowing that this is a thing you might have to do, you would seem unprepared to do your job properly.
 
@cmb some men just want to watch the world burn
 
OK, I think I get it @JoeWatkins @Derick ... I don't know how to use debugger but I don't doubt it's the correct-er way than var_dump, so I would do my best to learn/set it up, in the end if everyone is using it in the team, who am I to argue.
It's funny in the comments, people asking question but nevertheless jumping to conclusions based on the assumption :D
 
PHP debugging = 70% fighting setup, 20% dealing with trying to debug processes which self destruct after 30 seconds, 10% actually debugging
 
Why is that tho? I don't think it's that painful, especially with IDE and "formulas" and whatnot.
10 years ago you could knock out one production machine from load balancer, FTP to it, and go crazy with var_dump :)))
 
I think I fucked up again and didn't prepare myself earlier with all the proposals :/ I always do that, sorry
 
12:02 PM
@MarkR Xdebug disables the time limit, so where is that 30 seconds coming from?
 
@Derick FPM idle timeout I think.
 
No, Xdebug disables the timeout on the PHP side
 
For the max_execution_time ?
maybe it's a windows / IIS thing where it kills off the entire process.
 
cmb
yep, IIS quits after 30 sec per default; should be able to change
 
12:21 PM
@beberlei Trying dynamic_tracepoints... And coredump on tideways_init_callgraph_profiler
 
12:56 PM
@DmitryMiksIr meh :-( are you able to access the stacktrace or segfault entry from syslog to support@tideways.com ?
 
Greetings and salutations!
 
@beberlei yep but tideways.so without debug symbols... is package with debug symbols available?
 
@DmitryMiksIr yes, i Can send you the link to a tarball, can you send me an email to support@tideways.com?
 
user986408
1:18 PM
what would be the most efficient way to extend a list/array with elements that not already exist and override those that already exist?
 
user986408
do i always have to loop trough my items to check?
 
@codepushr Use the elements as keys, not values
 
@beberlei ok, i did... if you need bt with debug symbols - send it to me
 
@DmitryMiksIr just send a tarball out to you
 
What's up with all the no votes on wiki.php.net/rfc/make_ctor_ret_void?
 
cmb
1:32 PM
@Derick, announcement commits done :)
 
OK
 
15 hours ago, by moliata
@IluTov I suppose this is his reasoning: https://news-web.php.net/php.internals/110655
no idea if everyone has the same reasoning
 
@bwoebi Code or it didn't happen
"Sometimes you have valid information to pass from the parent class" how do you ever get into that situation?
 
By not buying the lucky heather from the old lady.
 
@NikiC did a quick grep over my codes - no public code by me though. found a couple occurrences in testing code
 
1:43 PM
Opcache get_class_vars() - first run successful, subsequent runs wrong ・ opcache ・ #79822
 
and one instance of getting the ctor retval
@NikiC rarely. I'm not even suggesting you should do that often…
 
for me the qustion should be "allow to declare return types on constructor" without a presecription of what should or should not be done.
 
Just saying I've written code calling (non-parent) __construct explicitly and seen some
 
IMO use a reference
 
@beberlei that's fine for me.
 
1:47 PM
@bwoebi Calling it is okay ... giving it a return value is not
 
@NikiC Why?
At least the RFC does not provide any arguments in that direction apart from "we documented it as such"
If anything, the RFC is lacking substance in what would justify the change. If in doubt, one should fix docs, not code, unless there is a compelling reason to do so.
That compelling reason is completely lacking
 
@bwoebi It confuses people. It makes it look like you can actually control the return value of new
 
Is that a real issue or do you think it could confuse people?
I've never heard of anyone confused by that
 
I've never heard of anyone returning stuff from __construct() tho
 
@bwoebi I've seen a couple of questons on stack overflow
Mostly people inheriting existing code that returns from a ctor, and not knowing what that is supposed to do
With speculation along the lines of what you're saying, maybe a direct call uses it somewhere ... while the truth is most likely that it's just dead code (someone write return false instead of return)
I'm wondering if it would make sense to just drop namespace\x names completely in PHP 8
 
2:01 PM
@beberlei the key problem with your recommendation is that the internals were really divided on this issue
 
I've never seen namespace relative names in the wild apart from php-src unit tests
 
Some think constructors are supposed to be only void, some think it shouldnt have a return type at all, others think it should be able to have any kind of return type
 
Should I make that a secondary vote on wiki.php.net/rfc/namespaced_names_as_token maybe?
 
but tbh @NikiC it's a guaranteed way to force compilation of ucall instead of fcall_by_name, right?
 
@bwoebi people would use an fqn for that
 
2:03 PM
It is really hard to satisfy all of the internals since everyone has a different opinion on what constructors should allow or what not.
 
Welcome to PHP internals
 
@NikiC you can add it, I'll probably abstain as I'm quite unsure whether it's a good or bad idea - but it shouldn't be a secondary vote, rather a second primary vote
 
;) problem is, the crowd was 50/50 and thus I took the approach that I thought was the best. Obviously, that didn't satisfy all of the internals
 
We're allowed to use opinion to make voting choices? I thought we just had to go with whatever reddit wants.
 
Problem is, reddit is also 50/50. If you go onto the RFC's thread, you can see that top 2 replies are "yes please!" and "why? dont really care"
so ;)
 
2:06 PM
@salathe Obviously Reddit knows best, and we should praise our Reddit overlords :p
 
So you're saying that the voting aligns with the reddit will of the people. Shock, horror!
 
@moliata rule no 1, completly ignore reddit :D
 
That's what I tried to do :)
 
^that, if you listen to Reddit PHP should be {choose any other language in existence}
 
2:09 PM
@Danack the definition of what the reddit hivemind is, yea?
 
actually more the louder people rather than all of them.
 
the hivemind is usually defined by its loudest members, so yes
 
@DmitryMiksIr I believe i have the fix for the problem, a beta version is currently being built by the CI system
 
I mean, I was given a link for OCD treatment since my want for consistency is bad. Ah, the good ol' reddit
 
what's the reason people are against implicit void for ctors?
I don't think I'd ever want to typehint that but it makes sense to me to have them implicitly return void
 
2:12 PM
@beberlei I don't see why a constructor would be allowed to declare any type, while we've just voted for adding the possibility to declare only the correct type for other magic methods?
 
@Ekin It's okay that you don't want to, but others might. Again, a typehint is optional. As for the people voting no, some think that it should be allowed to return from a ctor since "there is valid information" that can be returned.
I don't really see that myself since a constructor shouldn't have side effects i. e. should do its only duty - initialize an object.
But I guess not everyone agrees with me \o/
 
@beberlei awesome, I can test as soon as you send it to me :)
 
I can't think of an example use case where I'd need a ctor to return something, never really had to do that
 
people doing too much in their constructor?
 
Isn't PDO connecting in construct?
 
2:24 PM
shhh
 
@bwoebi I found two usages of namespace\
In both cases it's used to make it clear that it's a symbol from the current namespace instead of a global function/constant. Dropping the namespace\ prefix would have the same behavior
 
What's your reason for wanting to disallow it?
 
re PDO, that's doing work in ctor but it doesn't return something, right? it either throws or gives you the object
 
@Derick Reducing complexity
Mainly in 3rd party tooling, which all has to handle this special-case, even though nobody uses it :)
Eh, I don't think I'm going to bother
 
2:28 PM
As I said, a constructor should have only one responsibility - initialize an object, it shouldn't have side effects such as returning a value.
 
@DmitryMiksIr email with link to debian package sent to you just now
 
@Tiffany If the point of the whole object is to manage a connection and nothing works without said connection, it is absolutely fine to initialize that connection in ctor
 
Good morning
 
@bwoebi the connection would_n't_ be returned in the constructor though, right?
 
2:34 PM
... not going to triple ping to fix it
 
@Tiffany exactly, it wouldn't be.
 
Next up we'll have destructors returning a value and will have

class X { public function __destruct(): string { return "world!"; }}
$x = new X();
echo "Hello " . unset($x);
 
Huh, I read: from a disturbing people... :P
@MarkR no one would've thought of that if unset would look like a statement without parentheses possibly
 
@brzuchal nice reference to your RFCs ;p
 
@brzuchal Well it's invalid syntax :P I was just trolling
 
2:47 PM
IMO statements looking like a functions are not helping with that.
 
@brzuchal I don't know, I like unset(), isset() and empty() being function-like looking. But that's rather a subjective opinion.
 
@MarkR ofc and I know that it is invalid the same hoes to halt compiler its also invalid syntax but looks the same cause it has name parentheses and you put an argument in it by default
 
new(Foo) :)
 
Pls don't make hints on lc which returns something like new
@moliata is set and empty are lc but they're expressions
 
@brzuchal actually, why have you voted no on the RFC? As far as I know, you haven't expressed any thoughts of yours.
 
2:50 PM
There is a difference between lc which by design return value or can be used in conjunction with or operator and with those which cannot and don't return anything
 
Well, include and require can return values, are you proposing those should have parentheses?
 
@moliata from when return statement returns something?
 
what return statement?
I'm talking about require and include lcs
 
Include family functions can be used with parentheses even now
 
but their precedence doesn't work the way you might
 
2:53 PM
Sorry my bad didn't read carefully
@moliata I share similar opinions and I think it can be handled with static analysis
 
It's not that include allows parentheses, it's that you can simply add parentheses to any PHP string or int
you can also do echo (((((("Hello World"))))));
and that would work just fine
 
It'd be a BC break if void forced cause all returns from ctor would cause an exception/error and call dtor immediately while currently have no effect but allow to create an object and operate on it.
 
@TheodoreBrown I've added some examples, do you think it needs more? wiki.php.net/rfc/saner-numeric-strings
 
While you can argue if that's feasible it won't change the fact that this is a BC break
 
That's something we have discussed on the internals mailing list. It would be good 5 years (PHP 9.0) until an error would be thrown since a deprecation warning is done in the first place.
 
2:57 PM
You consider 5yrs being enough? Take a look at WP
 
Also, only 95 packages out of 2k top Composer packages have a BC break which can be fixed by simply removing the return ...; statement entirely.
 
@brzuchal WP is WP
Don't let WP drag the rest of the eco-system
 
and WP doesn't even have a BC break for what this RFC is proposing
I only saw two WP plugins have return false; in ctors which can be removed entirely.
 
Also there are some bigger BC breaks in 8 than that tbh
 
I think forcing a void on ctor is useless that's all. It's all what can be handled on code style checks
 
3:00 PM
Well, I suppose the entire "Ensure correct magic methods signature" RFC is useless as well?
 
^
 
but you voted Yes on that RFC
so how could that be indeed?
I'm confused
 
They all allow return, while ctor will error and call dtor immediately. None of the magic methods have such side effects right?
 
<?php
declare(strict_types=1);

class Test {
public function __toString() {
return 1;
}
}

echo (string) new Test()
 
3:06 PM
the difference is that the call site of magic methods assumes a certain type from magic methods, where in the case of ctor it just doesn't care at all
 
(ignore the formatting, I'm not sure how formatting works here) but
this is throwing an error to me
even without the RFC being pulled in to the core yet
that the return type is not correct
 
yes, that was always the API of __toString, wheras the API of ctor was always to not care about the return value, so essentially you would have to say that ctors return value is mixed
 
@beberlei btw the void on ctors/dtors is in the Accepted RFC on your watcher
 
Well, then I suppose you could say that all of the other magic methods have a return value of mixed as well?
since their return value's type weren't enforced
aren't* enforced
 
@Girgias yeah, buggy software sometimes :D
 
3:10 PM
@beberlei All software is buggy
Just give it enough time :p
 
@Girgias i logged into my crazy admi nitnerface and opened it up again, everything right now :D
 
Nice :D
 
@Girgias Ahhh.. The feeling when you remember that airplanes run software
 
@pmmaga cough B737 Maxcough
 
yeah :|
 
cmb
3:15 PM
@moliata ctrl+k is your friend :)
 
:) thanks for a tip
 
am I safe to assume that php7.4-fpm.sock should "just work" with nginx and PHP?
 
Now going off topic a bit, prejudice against PHP is just insane. Had to present my extended essay to practice for IB, one of CS tutors tried to tell me how slow PHP is and
 
I'm not sure if I misconfigured something in my nginx.conf or if there's another issue
 
told me that just like everybody took a few days to switch their working places during COVID19,
people will also quickly switch from using PHP to something else in 5 years or less :/
 
3:20 PM
lul
PHP Slow
 
thus, analyzing Zend Engine is pointless
bruh, PHP is 3 times faster than python
 
PHP 5 was slow
PHP 7 is faster
 
PHP is faster than Pyton and Ruby and on par with JS in certain aspects
 
Like, okay I'm not a CS tutor but I am pretty god damn sure that no one is going to throw their PHP codebases and switch to something else in <5 years ://
 
PHP is faster than JS in raw engine execution. JS's advantage is async IO, which has its own host of problems.
 
3:22 PM
PHP could probably speed up more with wsgi approach. I had plan to implement an http sapi which runs PHP script and expect a closure in return at the end of script in return statement
 
@Crell it depends
 
@cmb should I XFAIL the test failing on Windows? or are you looking into it?
 
@Crell imo, a bigger advantage is a sane internal engine, which can be hosted at scale more easily...
Also, fewer segfaults...
 
cmb
@Girgias I'll have a look :)
 
:D
 
3:53 PM
@Danack Having started looking through the code in recent months I would question your definition of "sane internal engine."
 
@Crell I meant JS has that advantage.
 
Ah, ok.
Though that's going to vary with which JS engine you're using.
 
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