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12:46 AM
@Girgias it would be quite nice to find some usecase for the JIT that isn't a mandelbrot renderer.
 
Well I have one, but like said I'm using it for my Math research project
Which is just loads of computations
 
or to put it another way, it would be good to show that it increases the speed of any useful code that isn't designed to be a trivial showcase.
 
1:01 AM
Yeah, it would be nice to have an actual PHP app run faster, but those are usually IO bounded
 
 
3 hours later…
Wes
4:18 AM
mornings
> For example, let's compare the two options in the scenario...
any suggestions on how to avoid "let's" here? doesn't sound formal enough
also i don't like using any "you", e.g.
"For example, (you) consider the scenario"
"For example, (you) imagine the scenario"
 
 
2 hours later…
6:00 AM
@Girgias haha 😃 not this time. We'll be travelling the first time this year 😊
Also, my guess is that composer and static analysis tools could profit from JIT. These use-cases are not io-bound, right?
 
6:29 AM
(by composer, I mean when update is run, version constraints have to be calculated. If the dependency graph is big enough, then this use-case could be cpu bound (?). Although I don't really know how many API requests are involved...)
 
@Wes i like the consider option
 
7:22 AM
good morning everyone, sorry to bother you guys but i have been stuck trying to achieve this for a while now can any one help me. stackoverflow.com/questions/62112346/…
 
 
3 hours later…
10:31 AM
@Wes just don't include the let's, "For example, compare the two options in the scenario." Imperative ftw.
or maybe "consider the two options"
@Sayra "This is what i have so far" - that is not a question. You should break your problem down into individual steps (as far as you can) and than ask questions about specific steps. Or possibly in this case find an example/tutorial to follow.
 
Wes
@Danack is consider in this case short for "you consider"?
 
Danack's "Consider" is imperative "You consider" is presumption or proposition.
 
@Wes yes and no
It's more of a statement
@Wes it doesn't speak to the reader directly
 
@MátéKocsis yeah but you don't usually have the JIT enabled in a dev environment tho?
 
I would have to look up the differences between imperative and proposition :S
@Wes reading consider as the introduction to an example makes me think of a math proof, and if formality is your goal, then do that :P
 
10:46 AM
@Wes Look!
(and I need to start using 'behold' more frequently in conversations....)
 
Wes
imperative doesn't sound like that in italian :D but we have something like a third person singular that is not quite that, we call it "impersonal" which is literally just third person singular verbs, but we omit explicit pronouns
i think in english would sound like "For example, they should consider the scenario in which..."
where "they" is the reader
except we don't use the actual pronoun
 
Imperative is ordering. Sit and take test(, please). <- imperative
You sit and take test. <- informative sentence with non-intrusive condition.
 
@Wes You've have the person doing the action encoded as part of the verb?
 
Wes
11:05 AM
not really, we actually change the phrase in a way that we don't have to write personal pronouns
"si comparino le due opzioni" is short for "si comparino (da lei) le due opzioni" or
"si comparino (da loro) le due opzioni"

which translates to
"the two options should be compared in the following scenario"
which is short to
"the two options should be compared (by you, by the readers, etc, it's implicit) in the following scenario"
which is nothing special i believe, it's just a way to write the phrase that does not involve using an explicit pronoun
 
Hey, PHP got typed properties in 7.4 but are they only for scalars? Can I use my own complex types there?
 
Wes
imperative instead in italian sounds like you are giving an order, so it's pretty rough
any type @Jimbo
 
yeah, just "compare the two options for the following scenario"....is perfectly fine and not rough at all. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, one of the best things about English is that it is really hard to be accidentally offensive in it.
 
Wes
cool, great :D
 
@Jimbo it works for class types
@Jimbo basically only ... official ... type it doesn't work for is callable
Or whatever resource qualifies as -_-
 
11:17 AM
> official
> "type"
 
Problem? :D
 
It's more what you'd call 'guidelines' than an actual type...
 
@Jimbo whenever my PR finishes review and is accepted, a table will be added to the properties page that lists all applicable types
 
Nice, thanks!
 
11:51 AM
In case anyone's been using Symfony and wants to place controllers in other dirs like me, I have a question:
0
Q: How can I automatically register 'controllers as services' in other directories in Symfony 5

JimboBackground I want to use functional cohesion to organise my controllers. This means that I will not have a Controllers/ directory, which makes it easy for the framework, but I will organise my code by use-case. An arbitrary example: src/FetchLatestNews/Controller.php src/FetchLatestNews/News...

 
12:21 PM
First draft of the nullsafe operator RFC: https://github.com/iluuu1994/nullsafe-operator-rfc/blob/v1/rfc.md
Is the description of short circuiting understandable?
 
@IluTov I'd recommend building the examples up from a simpler start. So don't include the short circuiting on the left hand side for the first example. can do a PR if that's not clear.
s/There are no backward incompatible changes in this RFC./There are no known backward incompatible changes in this RFC.
 
@Danack That makes sense, I'll try to provide more but simpler examples instead ordered by increasing complexity.
 
12:54 PM
If you can find a long example from another language that has 'real' fields, including one of those would be good also.
 
1:14 PM
@Danack What do you mean by "real fields"?
 
not metasyntatic ones. so like $user->billingDetails->address->country
but maybe a good one.
 
@Danack ah ok :)
 
@IluTov I don't have strong opinion but ->? would be more appropriate in my head following considering other absent items function foo(?Bar $baz){} <- q-mark prefixes subject.
 
the way Ilutov has it is in the correct place for where the shortcircuit occurs.
 
@Tpojka Yeah what Dan said. The short circuiting happens before the function call / property fetch. It's also how other languages usually do it (?.)
 
1:35 PM
Just saying that in my head this

$foo->?bar()

reveals more quicker thinking about possible absence of bar() than

$foo?->bar()

because I already know what is behind abstraction behind $foo->bar()

$foo?->bar()

requires more time to conclude wether '?' belongs™ to $foo or bar()
Brain already knows -> and ->? is upgrade to that.

But I am pretty much adaptive to new things. :)
 
What do you guys use to host a tiny tiny PHP app?
 
Docker-compose
also, I should probably restart docker-compose to make my site to be up again...
 
Yeah but I need a server, which I currently don't have lol
 
digital ocean is good. vultr is okay.
 
I don't even have dependencies and it's kinda sphagetti code
 
1:42 PM
@Girgias Our company? Self hosted, Windows Server, IIS, Sql Server 😂 Please don't copy us 🤪
 
I just need something to host a Discrete 2D quadratic map calculator lol
It's basically one file where I mix PHP and HTML
 
Wes
2:03 PM
does "infer" work in both directions? "infer to" and "infer from"?
 
2:26 PM
@Wes I'd probably say "inferred as"
oh, I think that's not what you mean. English is not my primary language 🤷‍♂️
 
@Girgias +1 Digital Ocean. 5 USD/month for a simple droplet. Set up a debian or ubuntu box, install php from apt, install/setup nginx, ta da
 
A friend send me a link with a 20$ credit for Linode so trying that one up
Just watching the SpaceX dragon docking
 
Why was the str_starts_with and str_ends_with RFC voted heavily against? They want us to write Go style code nightmares just to check for suffixes in userland?
 
@bwoebi Thanks I was looking at another one
 
2:34 PM
one of the only RFCs I've voted on...
 
PHP 8 though yawn
 
find a userland library :P
 
@Girgias i am with digitalocean for small studf
@Girgias 100 usd credit if you use my referral link :P m.do.co/c/e57bdcb34853
 
@beberlei I've already got an account set up on Linode, but saving that link for next time :p
 
posted on May 31, 2020 by James Mallison

Automatically register controllers as services in Symfony 5 with CompilerPass for functional cohesion.

 
3:05 PM
@Girgias Save this one too m.do.co/c/43ba736ebd18 You're alredy $200 good. :D
 
Thanks :')
 
Wes
3:30 PM
how do i express a 1:1 relationship in plain english without using the singular? ie "cars are associated to license plates", i want to avoid writing "every car is associated to a license plate"... for reasons
would "cars are paired to license plates" work?
 
Cars have licenseplates
Why avoid the singular anyway?
 
Wes
for other stuff i have to write, singular doesn't really work
 
link to the text?
hard to say without context
 
Wes
i wish there was a text. it's just a bunch of delirious random sentences right now :(
 
in that case.....I'd suggest using the singular, but be more explicit/consistent. "each car is associated to a license plate"
as that just refers to the singular, rather than the group.
 
 
1 hour later…
5:10 PM
"yield from" hangs when invalid value encountered ・ *General Issues ・ #79657
 
5:20 PM
@NikiC will like that one. ^
 
 
1 hour later…
Wes
6:29 PM
so anonymous exposed the queen for killing the princess diana
trump and naomi campbell exposed for child trafficking
2020, what a year
 
7:00 PM
Wait, what?
 
Wes
it's all over the place rn, check any social @Crell
 
I haven't finished catching up with twitter last night.
 
though I'm trying to find the bits about Trump and Naomi...
though all I'm finding are pixelated screenshots...
 
Wes
7:18 PM
twitter is deleting them, they appear under #anonymous though
 
jesus fucking christ if this is all true..
of all the days... it would be my mom's birthday... she would've been 60
 
 
1 hour later…
8:24 PM
@Wes princess Diana died because her driver was an alcoholic who had been drinking on the day he crashed the car. And she wasn't wearing a seatbelt.
 
@Tiffany Sorry to hear that :( It would've been my dads 59th just a few days ago. Cherish your parents kids.
 
@IluTov keep a video recording or vocal recording of them...
all I have are pictures :/
 
9:15 PM
@Tiffany you doing anything to mark the date? I guess with the whole corona and everything else going on, might be more difficult than otherwise.
 
I haven't, no. My sister and I occasionally celebrate it, we kinda did that on Friday.
 

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