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12:00 AM
Well, Tamsin and Mark are.... all over British series. Found "Black Books" yet?
 
not yet, worth watching?
test
 
12:14 AM
yes...
it's with dylan moran, tamsin greig and bill bailey
 
12:30 AM
I'll add it to the list
 
user11867329
1:28 AM
s-sendgrid?
 
4:17 AM
@Danack "Your subscribe request has been processed."
 
 
3 hours later…
7:00 AM
@Derick github.com/sebastianbergmann/xdebug-trace-util/blob/master/src/… works for me for filtering autoloader frames.
 
7:11 AM
@PeeHaa @Tiffany You've got to watch this one... warning... it is sad. =( youtube.com/watch?v=RWU9c7xioJw
 
8:03 AM
@Derick What option do I need to set to get return frames in the computer readable format? With xdebug.auto_trace=1 and xdebug.trace_format=1 I only get entry and exit frames.
 
Hi PHP developers... question for you...
Working on PHP extension code. There seems to be some inconsistency in which functions are used to report errors.
In some cases it's zend_argument_value_error(), but in other cases where something is wrong with an argument passed by a user, zend_value_error() is used.
In other cases, it's php_error_docref
In other cases, it's zend_throw_exception() or zend_throw_exception_ex()
Are there any "best practices" regarding which error reporting functions to prefer?
 
9:00 AM
It depends what is emitted
zend_argument_(value|type)_error takes as a first param the argument number of the function which causes the issue. Something which isn't always easy to have, moreover this one has been recently introduced
Similarly zend_value_error has also been introduced quite recently
php_error_docref is used when emitting warnings/notices (zend_error does the same but doesn't provide a link to the documentation if rendered in HTML mode)
 
OK
Why was zend_value_error introduced, instead of just using zend_throw_exception() or the like?
 
zend_throw_exceptions are to throw an Exception (compared to an Error) or special library exception (like Sodium)
 
Does it automatically throw a specific exception type?
 
Yes
Zend_value throw a ValueError (which is not an exception) zend_type_error is a TypeError
 
OK
Are there any recommendations on when to use errors and when to use exceptions?
 
9:05 AM
If it's a programming error -> Error, otherwise Exception
 
@Girgias OK...
So exception is for unforeseen external conditions, like a file not existing?
 
Well yes but we don't really do that with the fopen API as it returns false and that can't really be changed
But the XML extension are a good example for Exception, as if it's something not in control of the Dev (like file input/content of it) then it should throw a Warning/Exception more than an Error
 
Hmm
 
I mean worst case it'll just get flagged in code review during the PR
 
I think in some of the code I have already contributed, I used exceptions rather than errors for what are really programmer error...
Wonder if I should go back and change those
 
9:09 AM
For the most part just use zend_argument_value_error if you can I'd say
Meh it's fine I'd say, I still need to continue to do my warning -> Error promotion so
And I look at other exceptions normally too
 
OK
 
@SebastianBergmann xdebug.collect_return=1
 
 
2 hours later…
10:49 AM
@Girgias shouldn't the is_real() function be removed by now?
 
Was it deprecated?
I don't recall if it has been
 
well we forgot
 
yep, I was wondering if we forgot about it
but seems so :)
 
o/
happy friday folks
 
10:58 AM
happy Friday! And it's long weekend again for us :D ^^
 
ha nice! labor day, right?
just noticed it is already May :-)
 
@MátéKocsis I think there are also 2 LDAP functions we missed: heap.space/s?refs=ZEND_DEP_FE&project=php-src
 
Yep, labor day! :)
@Girgias Thanks! But I don't know anything about them :O When these were deprecated or if we can really get rid of them
but a PR for is_real() is on its way
 
Huh, I don't know if thez haven't just been deprecated is well... will need to git blame for that
 
go to haproxy docs site, to confirm some settings for a 'maintenance mode' page to deliver to visitors.
> GitHub Pages is temporarily down for maintenance.
ugliest maintenance mode page ever.
 
11:14 AM
Hello!
Chris is Risen!
From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Playlist .bio, a text-based list of items, with each item on a new line. Each item represents the full path to the file.

I would like to ask. It's the only specification - standard to know, as i would like to make a .bio parser
 
@ChrisP That line was added 11 years ago, with no source: en.wikipedia.org/w/…
it was then linked to a now-deleted page about a piece of software I've never heard of: en.wikipedia.org/w/…
I'm tempted to delete it from the page, unless you know that it's a real format?
I've edited it out of the Wikipedia page
if you do actually have some software that uses it, feel free to add it back in with appropriate references :)
 
Wes
\o
 
I want to make a full playlist parser.
I didn't heard about .bio playlist format in the past.
But it sounds to be like the .m3u format.

I don't have a program that uses bio playlist
 
11:30 AM
then I'd ignore it, and take it as a lesson not to rely on unsourced statements on Wikipedia
write parsers for formats you know are actually useful to people
 
cmb
@MátéKocsis these are deprecated as of PHP 7.4.0. If you're planning to remove them, it might be best to check with Côme and/or @heiglandreas.
 
also pretty hard to write a parser without some real samples
otherwise you're likely to make something that doesn't work in real life
 
11:52 AM
morns
 
12:12 PM
@Wes I'll get screenshots of mine for you. I have mine set to advanced and have some specific options set.
 
Wes
thanks
 
@IMSoP There comes a point where asking questions and then refusing the answer given, and instead insisting that an answer that fits the faulty assumptions they have made, becomes a form of "help vampiring" which is not allowed in this room.
When they've been doing that multiple times this week, and again when you saw, even though it's not intentionally bad, the effect is detrimental to other people and the bad behaviour deserves to be called out. The same as I call out people for being sexist or generally behaving like an arse. Seeing as the guy had made shitty jokes about covid-19, they aren't going to get a pass for borderline unacceptable behaviour.
 
Hiya. PHP doesn't load extensions when I make requests through Apache, but the extensions show up if I execute php.exe -m. Does anyone know why this might be the case?
 
12:56 PM
You were editing the wrong ini file or you didn't retart apache after changes or both
 
@Danack OK, I didn't know the rest of that context, so it seemed to escalate quickly. I'd maybe still argue "two wrongs don't make a right", though; being blunt and calling out behaviour is one thing; making personal insults is another.
 
@PeeHaa That's not it. phpinfo(); from the cli and in the browser both show the same .ini file loaded, and I've restarted Apache a few dozen times today and it's still not working :/
 
Are you running fpm?
 
@undo is apache maybe in NTS mode, and php on CLi in ZTS mode. an extension has to be not only for the same php version, but there are two other factors that have to match Debug Yes/No, ZTS or NTS
 
@beberlei I'm trying to enable curl which came with the php binaries to presumably it's the correct version?
Let me look up the NTS thingy
 
1:03 PM
check for NTS or ZTS in php.exe -v and the phpinfo output has it for Apache
 
ZTS in php.exe -v, Thread Safety enabled in phpinfo();
That matches up, right?
 
yes
on apache phpinfo() it shows the extension but what happens then when you use it?
 
@beberlei Doesn't show up as loaded in phpinfo(), extension_loaded("curl") is false, and curl isn't in get_loaded_extensions()
But if I execute php -m, this comes up:
C:\_DATA\execdir\software\PHP7>php -m
[PHP Modules]
bcmath
calendar
Core
ctype
curl
date
dom
filter
hash
iconv
If I disable it from php.ini, it stops showing in the cli (as it should)
But no matter what I do, I can't get it to work through Apache
 
What does your error log tell you?
 
Nothing!
 
1:09 PM
can you set display_startup_errors=on ? that is usually off
 
Apache error.log has no PHP errors, and PHP's error_log has nothing relevant either
 
I know if you don't set yoru extension dir manually on windows it can do fucky things, but that should blow up in your error log
 
@PeeHaa I've tried the full path for extension_dir in php.ini too, it didn't help
@beberlei gimme a sec
 
display_errors=on in addition and it should show if there are any
 
cmb
@undo I assume that dependencies of php_curl.dll are not in the PATH
 
1:11 PM
@beberlei None. Error log comes up empty.
 
cmb
the Win binary packages have dumpbin.exe; start that from a web script on php_curl.dll; will probably show missing deps
 
Iam willing to bet it's something simple and you are just doing something wrong with things we said above :)
Curl on windows generally just works ™
 
@cmb Apparently that requires me to install the full VS?
@PeeHaa Let me re-check
 
cmb
sorry, not dumbin.exe but deplister.exe
 
- ZTS/TS Match
- Same ini file
- Apache restarted
- no startup errors
php7ts.dll,OK
libcrypto-1_1-x64.dll,OK
libssl-1_1-x64.dll,OK
WLDAP32.dll,OK
Normaliz.dll,OK
libssh2.dll,OK
nghttp2.dll,OK
KERNEL32.dll,OK
WS2_32.dll,OK
VCRUNTIME140.dll,OK
api-ms-win-crt-stdio-l1-1-0.dll,NOTFOUND
api-ms-win-crt-string-l1-1-0.dll,NOTFOUND
api-ms-win-crt-heap-l1-1-0.dll,NOTFOUND
api-ms-win-crt-convert-l1-1-0.dll,NOTFOUND
api-ms-win-crt-filesystem-l1-1-0.dll,NOTFOUND
api-ms-win-crt-runtime-l1-1-0.dll,NOTFOUND
api-ms-win-crt-time-l1-1-0.dll,NOTFOUND
api-ms-win-crt-utility-l1-1-0.dll,NOTFOUND
@cmb so...
(I have VS redist 2015-19 installed)
 
cmb
1:25 PM
do you have the x64 redist? If so, try to repair the installation.
 
@cmb did a reinstall
those dlls are still not found
 
cmb
well, if the same DLLs are found by php.exe (check with deplister), than Apache appears to misconfigured
 
@cmb Not found
Does all this explain why curl is loaded when using cli but not while using Apache?
 
cmb
@undo well, then php.exe is highly unlikely to start
from where you ran php.exe, do a set PATH and compare that with the PATH reported in phpinfo() when run with Apache
 
@cmb I'm running php from the php directory
There's only one copy of php on this machine
 
1:48 PM
I've already tried a PHP reinstall. Let me try an Apache reinstall now
Didn't work :(
 
 
1 hour later…
3:01 PM
"
Lets introduce directive
declare(simple_classes=1);

This directive will switch interpreter mode, where class declared
properties and methods are accessible as regular variables and functions at
class code.
"
Yeah, that sounds like a great idea
 
But hey:

> This is my first try to input the proposal, please don't be strict )

We all had silly ideas like this at some point :)
 
You mean like introducing a new construct called "match"? ;-) (I am kidding)
 
@Derick haha 😅
 
What do you mean removing short tags is a silly idea looks around nervously
 
My first fun one was implementing subqueries for MySQL by parsing the SQL and expanding the results in C
 
3:05 PM
I'm not sure I understand everything of what you just said ... but that seems terrifying
 
Oh great, it had my address in that email too
 
We shall now raid the fore-mentioned address to discover part of Derick's past
 
I've no idea who lives there now
 
Well obviously it was nearly 20 years ago
 
@Derick Not gonna lie, that looks amazing 😂
 
3:31 PM
an amazingly bad idea
 
@Derick too late, got it running in production :P
 
One of my first RFCs was removing deathticks :P ... it went down in flames
 
3:49 PM
@MarkR Which doesn't seem completely unreasonable. At certain times I wish we were a little more "courageous".
 
The PHP project is, historically, resistant to change former bad decisions, and not very good at making long-term future ones.
It is getting better though
 
@Derick hah how nice! :)
my first one was this for domdocument (using a be nice phrase as well!!) that johannes kindly shut down by showing me that it already exists just has a stupid name :D externals.io/message/39445
ah johannes replied off list it seems :D
 
@MarkR I get it, backwards compatibility is important. But it can also hinder progress.
We need a good mix between the two.
 
ah no, externals.io is just incomplete: marc.info/?l=php-internals&m=121737308217992&w=2
 
Nikic managed to hammer through a metric ton of error promotion changes last year, which was a huge thing.
and we were what... 4 votes away from putting a massive nail in the undefined-is-null issue
 
3:56 PM
the RFC process does not lend itself well towards long term future decisions
 
I need to get back to working on my RFC
change ATTR_EMULATE_PREPARES in PDO MySQL driver to default false
always fun going back to code after taking a break for a few days, can't process anything for an hour until stuff starts to click
question: I've compiled PHP, I've changed the emulate_prepare flag to 0, compiled that and ran the test suite. Is my next step reading through the test results to find any broken tests? is there a more efficient way of doing it?
I haven't contacted anyone yet, I want to try to understand the problem as best as possible before I start emailing people questions
I guess I should figure out which tests are involved with PDO first...
 
@Tiffany you can run only the PDO tests, TESTS=ext/pdo_mysql/tests/*.phpt make test
 
Does voting karma ever expire? How many people actually have voting karma? How many of these people are still actively involved in PHP?

Not saying anything is wrong with the status quo, would just be interesting to know.
 
they probably all skip by default, you shold look into them, there are some environment variables to set that points to the test database you want it to use
@IluTov i loosly remember nikita looked at that last year and it was either 900 or 1500is +/-200 something people that can vote
 
cmb
@IluTov I think everybody listed on people.php.net has voting karma.
 
4:06 PM
@beberlei Holy crap, that number is a lot higher than I expected.
 
@IluTov in essence though, the RFC with the most votes ever was Scalar Type hints with optional strict mode, with 156
i think the system works fine though, a lot of people that stopped contributing also stopped voting. it happens automatically
 
@beberlei To think that vote could've been overruled many times over is still kind of crazy.
 
What amuses me is scalar type hints v5 would only just graze by nowadays with 66% requirement, yet the entire ecosystem has shifted to it.
 
@cmb If it's everybody on people.php.net then that's 1800 people.
The way I see it is I have a lot of potential bribes for the match expression :P
 
Trying to drag people in to vote pad is a surefire way of losing friends xD
 
4:15 PM
I doubt you'll get a response fast enough from some people to vote on something on a project they probably haven't looked into for over a decade
 
@beberlei is that phpdbg? (haven't dug very far yet)
 
Come on guys, I'm joking! (probably)
 
@Tiffany no
 
@IluTov I know :p
 
@MarkR it was 66% back then too
 
4:17 PM
@beberlei it was 66% + 1 for removal/changes but additions to the language were only 50% +1
(see FFI for example which passed with less then 2/3)
 
I thought that was the point of the abolish short margins ^
 
no, thats not right. the scalar types hint had "As this is a language change, this RFC requires a 2/3 majority to pass. "
the rule was changing the language is 2/3, adding APIs 50%+1
 
@beberlei Just looked up again I think I'm mixing this up with the types properties one which wouldn't have passed the 2/3 threshold
 
cmb
2/3 > 66% :)
 
Tis a funny ol world
 
cmb
4:21 PM
FFI voting predated abolish short margins
 
Yes, and the result prompted Joe to bring the short margin RFC to a vote
quite hastely IIRC
@cmb Sorry I don't know what numbers are any more I'm overwhelmed by greek letters
 
@Girgias Are you trying to calculate their national deficit or something? (Edit: This would have been more amusing if you had written greek numbers, which would make no sense because.... yeah)
 
@beberlei I like how you casually misspelled the name too: "method "DOMDocument::ouput" that does "
 
@MarkR if only :| I'm revising for my exams, and the amount of symbols/number ratio is well way too much in favour of symbols :')
 
FFI in core was a mistake
5
 
cmb
4:31 PM
@Derick I agree (now), but if not in core, it wouldn't be used/usable.
 
that's fine with me too
@cmb BTW< did you cherry pick that BC breaking change into 7.4.6? your email was vague
 
cmb
no, I didn't – IMHO 7.4.6 is your branch :)
 
-m 1 ?
@cmb doesn't apply
ah, conflict in NEWS
fixed, but please check it @cmb ?
 
lol, BORKED is a failed test value
 
cmb
@Derick hmm, with wiki.php.net/vcs/gitfaq#mandatory_git_settings that is not supposed to happen
 
4:37 PM
well, it's good that I did, otherwise it wouldn't have ended up in NEWS
I think my release branch thingy checkout hasn't done that change
 
making sure I understand this correctly - so the pdo_mysql tests are skipping, going by internals book (ctrl-f skipif), the extension has to be loaded in order for the test to run? (if I have it right, I'll start googling how to load extensions)
 
cmb
@Derick LGTM :)
 
... I figured it out, the command line output states the reason ...
 
cmb
yep :)
 
5:17 PM
so I configured my php compilation wrong, lol, this is quite a learning experience
 
6:07 PM
@Tiffany There is a part on that last stream that will make you cry... seriously.
RIP, Wedge.
 
IGP
6:49 PM
Hello.
 
7:00 PM
@StatikStasis I have it open in a tab 😛 I'll watch it a bit later, I wanna try to squeeze as much brain juice out as I can
 
Tasty tasty brain juice...
 
I'm imagining frying brain juice in a pan, which then leads to brain fry (fried?)
 
7:20 PM
Mm, put in some good neck muscle for the juice to tenderize, a little salt, some veggies...
 
om nom nom
 
@LeviMorrison Have you heard anything further from Sara?
 
Nope.
 
Hm. I'm tempted to at least start writing tests for partials, since I know I can do that part even if I am probably useless on the implementation...
 
 
2 hours later…
9:03 PM
@Girgias And in hindsight, it really shouldn't have passed
Great feature, but nobody ever looked at the details of the implementation
Now we're stuck with a huge amount of magic in there like prefer-ref parameters that magically take addresses of stuff, and methods that can be called statically and non-statically (something we've been trying to eradicate from the language for more than a decade)
 
Well we can always just kill it before 8?
 
Also seems to use bailout-based error handling, though seems to be somewhat better in practice than soap
 
Screw them :D
I mean it is experimental
 
9:34 PM
@NikiC I sort of think it was important to get it into core … but TBF, improving the impl can still be done… I think we only learnt it's flaws by using it … needs a second iteration of its API…
 
@bwoebi yeah, but I doubt anyone is actually going to do that
At least I don't want to deal with it myself (and have never used it myself either)
 
9:53 PM
any can help in php and mysql ?
I have two tables one membership and other one is users . i need to get value from membership page when user selects the membership example free then that anchor tag should send value to database with corresponding email registered in users table to store in membership table with email from users and data that user just clicked on membership page and then it continues to the page redirection.
 
@LeviMorrison you might stay the only one to -1 attributes, get to tell everyone I told you so on any fails and join the ranks of @Danack who has this trophy (shared with one other person) and gets to tell everyone I told you so on the JIT ;)
 
:)
Guess who that one other person is?
 
wat!
now i am scared :)
 
@rsethi OK, and what's your question?
if it's "write me some code that does all that", you're not going to get much sympathy
 
@NikiC 24 to 15. You are right; it shouldn't have passed.
As I've said for a long time; if you have at least 33% of the votes dissenting it shouldn't proceed...
 
10:09 PM
@NikiC That's the issue … also doubt it'll happen … nobodys time worth it :-/ Though I'm sure it would be quite a selling point of PHP if it had natively similar capabilities to python doing lowlevel syscalls for example via FFI with a very easy API.
 
10:34 PM
I just put 🙏in a comment. God help me.
 
@LeviMorrison sorry, but that preselected you for hell
 

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