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12:00 AM
@Girgias If the argument is to keep the hebrew, then it makes as much sense as to also add an alias of T_MARLOQIUSAQ_IMAATTUUT (Greenlandic), given Rasmus is originally from Greenland
 
@Danack so short tags? /s
 
Seems unlikely there wouldn't be a riot either way come voting period. You'll probably be forced to go loud and hammer the drum to push it through.
 
@Kalle I mean from what I remember reading of some of the previous discussion is that you only need to look it up once hence it's not really an issue. Not that I really agree with it but
 
But on a serious note, I do think the hebrew has a nice historic value to PHP, however we also have to be real and consider that the error messages is meant to help our users understand what went wrong, not to make them google it once more to find a stackoverflow post that has been asked a million times
@Girgias Sure, but I also think thats a very weak argument for keeping nonsense like that
 
12:03 AM
Oh for sure, I just need to think about how to phrase it that it acknowledges the history while still making the compelling argument to make this change
 
Anything that you remember simply because it is so utterly absurd is a symptom, not a cure.
 
I think the compelling argument really is we should strive for clarity, we have all spend years on trying to clean up the language from the 5.3 days until now and we are still far from being on top
 
@Girgias I'd suggest focusing on people still coming to PHP, rather than people who are used to it.
 
Good point
 
Or as Levi has put it before - is PHP in its end-game? If so, then it shouldn't be cleaned up, whereas if it's still a living language, then cleaning up might be worth it.
 
12:08 AM
Thats a nice way to put it @Danack @LeviMorrison
 
........I have no idea if "it's" should have an apostrophe there...
 
(the apostrophes are correct)
 
taking notes on a pieces of paper of all the great points
 
"its end-game".....that doesn't count as possessive?
 
Hello, somebody knowledgeable of Doctrine ORM willing to help? stackoverflow.com/questions/60841202/…
 
12:15 AM
I doubt PHP is going to reach its end game for another 15 to 20 years. Perhaps more if language editions can get pushed through
 
@PatrickKusebauch you might have more luck asking during the Europe day. But also, you should probably allow people time to answer the question on the site before promoting it elsewhere.
 
 
5 hours later…
5:19 AM
I haven't read internals daily for a couple of weeks ... why does this mike guy make so much noise, I just saw a two thousand word essay ...
@Derick I think your "read the rules" was probably aimed at this ... just say directly to him that he needs to reduce noise, nobody has time to read the content he's creating
it reads like rambling ...
 
We all have the same feelings here
 
@Danack "its" is possessive, "it's" is "it is"
 
@MarkR whenever anyone says "end game", I hear my preteen son ... who really likes to just use the words "end game", because they make things sound "epic" ....
brushing teeth is the end game of bath time, and desert the end game of dinner time ... seriously, all the time, everything has an end game in his world ... and it's epic ...
 
5:34 AM
Avengers: Endgame would/will be the endgame of movies for him I'm assuming.
 
that's what started it ... I don't even think he's watched the movie all the way through
 
Never reached the end of Endgame. This could go on forever lol..
 
5:51 AM
Opcache chokes and uses 100% CPU on specific script ・ opcache ・ #79412
 
 
3 hours later…
9:17 AM
@JoeWatkins I did both.
@Girgias Don't go there, it's not worth your time.
 
@Derick writing RFCs in general, or that specific one? :-P
Also, good moaning roomies
 
That specific one
 
I know, was just being cheeky
 
@JoeWatkins Everyone wants to be Tony stark
 
10:11 AM
@NikiC I've noticed approval of PhpToken object-oriented API. Thank you! By the way, could you please move this getAll() method into another class to provide cleaner API, say Php\Parser::tokenize()?
In my vision PhpToken should behave like value object, thus doesn't contain any logic methods.
And there can be some parser class, providing ability to parse, lex, etc given source code. This can be extended later with AST API as well...
What is your vision about that?
I can imagine Parser::tokenize(string $source): PhpToken[], Parser::parse(string $source): PhpNode and Parser::compile(PhpNode $node) methods as an extension. Even replace existing eval with Parser::evaluate(string $code, string $sourceName = null)
 
Quick question @NikiC as I've just read the internals mails; why do parameter names need to be subject to LSP? Can't we just allow parent and child name interchangeably? (chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/48935795#48935795)
or are concrete disadvantages with this?
 
@bwoebi Seems very magic
And pretty confusing
Not to mention what happens when there are clashes
 
@NikiC if it clashes the engine will complain
 
10:26 AM
I think it would make more sense to just keep the LSP violation to a notice
 
hm. fair.
 
Most people would probably want the parameters names to stay the same (and not staying the same would likely be a bug, because a rename was not propagated). I think it's more useful to tell about them (in a not very aggressive way)
 
Signature correction: Parser::tokenize(string $source, [string $tokenClassName]): PhpToken[] to cover ability to extend default token class.
@NikiC are there any chances to adjust API? ) Please-please ))
At least, to rename getAll() method...
 
@lisachenko If someone wants to expose AST in PHP 8, we can consider this interface. I don't want to add a new class for frivolous reasons.
 
Ok, and probably just to rename this method?
tokenize or lex could better describe logic of this method
I can try to bring wiki.php.net/rfc/parser-extension-api alive. Probably with implementation as well...
 
10:42 AM
@lisachenko Renaming the method is fine by me. Can you suggest a name on the mailing list? If people agree we can use it.
 
@NikiC Ok, sure
 
I was wanting to change mine to debug_get_type ever since I passed it, to create an expectation of debug_xxx but figured it was beyond that point now
 
@MarkR I think a mail to internals is fine for input as well, I agree with the sentiment of debug_*() functions doing this kind of stuff
 
eh
Unless there's evidence that we're going to get more debug_* functions, I prefer get_debug_type()...
"debug" is already not quite the right term in the right place, it's not exactly a debugging feature...
 
Should I validate if a username/email is actually a valid username/email string before looking up its existence in db in a login scenario?
or should I just directly look it up in the db as is supplied by the user?
 
11:00 AM
just look it up, providing you don't introduce SQL or NoSQL injections :-)
 
Right, thanks. Just a non-empty assertion should do in my case.
 
@Girgias No problem! And thanks for talking in the Derick&Nikita show! :D
@NikiC Does it have any special advantage if every function/method has a stub? I'm not interested in adding stubs for hundreds of functions in oci8 and pgsql, unless it has some extra benefits :D
 
11:23 AM
@MátéKocsis Don't think there's a special advantage ^^ More a matter of being able to say that everything has type info now
 
Got it. I think my OCD is happy for a while :D I might do some of the rest in the unforseeable future.
 
11:39 AM
@MátéKocsis If you're looking for more work, we still have the big open issue of migrating resources to objects :P
 
Last person to remove a resource has to deal with all the is_resource() which no longer have anything left in core to test with :p
 
I wouldn't spend time on oci8 anyway, Oracle has plenty of money
 
@MarkR Heh, if one we got to that point...
 
@NikiC :D yeah, I remember that one :D although I'd be more interested in warning promotions first (+ revamping messages) since we won't be able to do these tasks for some years.
 
@MátéKocsis yeah, warning promotion should happen in 8.0. Changing error messages is fine anytime :)
Doing resource -> object changes is also best done in 8.0. We have some precedent for doing it in minors, but does break BC in some ways
 
@NikiC I mean change the message as part of promoting warnings.
And Yep, I'm aware! But I'll have to make myself familiar with how to do the conversion exactly. So I'll have a look sometime soon
 
@MátéKocsis Lots of function signature changes for ZPP. Then macros for each to convert to / from the objects.
I'm assuming all the file IO ones would need a singular Stream class?
 
@MarkR Thank you for hint! :) I might ask you later too ^^
 
@SebastianBergmann Are the repros from github.com/sebastianbergmann/phpunit/issues/… relevant?
That is, do those show a memory usage difference between 7.3 and 7.4?
@MarkR I wouldn't touch file IO, it's one of the most icky parts
 
@NikiC I don't know, unfortunately. Different people are reporting different results on the same ticket :-/
 
11:54 AM
@NikiC I guess curl might be next on the hit list then
 
@MarkR Exactly!
@NikiC And one more thing in connection with my default value reflection PR github.com/php/php-src/pull/4832#discussion_r382738575 I'd really like to finish this, but I'm lost :( Could you please answer my question that I linked?
 
@NikiC yeah it is … and that's why it sort of desperately needs a rework :-/
 
@MátéKocsis The good thing is you end up deleting more code than you add as most things have their own zend_fetch_resource which can all get nuked.
It actually looks remarkably clean, could probably get 90% of the job done using find / replace
 
12:23 PM
@Gordon You work at Instana right?
Is there a free version for small OSS?
(not a 14 day free trial)
 
cmb
@NikiC, re github.com/php/php-src/pull/5290: do we even ever call realpath(3)? (besides once in litespeed SAPI)
 
@bwoebi @cmb could you take a look on that wiki.php.net/rfc/structs I know I need to work more over the argumentation but there is an article reference at the end where I think I can take some
 
12:45 PM
@brzuchal $point = Point; ← that is not going to go well, I think you would need to add the {} regardless, or come up with something better
I wouldn't add anonymous structs either.
or at least not in a first try
 
@brzuchal structs are immediately copied? could it be possible to copy on write? that could be more efficient
i feel the pass by reference + pass by value, and copy on write semantics, as well as name dropping these concepts is missing in this draft
 
@Jimbo I do. No, there isn't.
 
I also find "Fields composition" a bit odd, it's both a new syntax and a new concept, and not sure how useful this is - instead, I'd possibly prefer to see the nested syntax like C has, where you need to name your variable and your type, so you get foo.bar.baz syntax ($foo->bar->baz in PHP).
 
@Derick yeah it would collide with condts without brackets
@beberlei what you mean by name dropping?
@Derick In Go there is something like promoted fields
 
@brzuchal these terms and concepts need to be mentioned early in the RFC, because they convey a lot of meaning of how it would work in the engine, compared to how objects work and how objects worked in PHP 4. Name dropping in a sense that mentioning them demonstrates that the RFC is "knowing its place" in the ecosystem
 
12:55 PM
type Salary struct {
    basic int
    insurance int
    allowance int
}
type Employee struct {
    firstName, lastName string
    Salary
}

ross := Employee {
    firstName: "Ross"
    lastName: "Bing"
    Salary: Salary { 1100, 50, 50 },
}
fmt.Println("Ross's basic salary", ross.Salary.basic)
@Derick in above example in Go you can compose but also non conflicting fields are accessed from the Employee without .Salary. in the path
ross.basic = 1200
ross.insurance = 0
ross.allowance = 0
 
I am saying that you shouldn't introduce this new concept at the same time.
 
@Derick Ok so you propose to move it into the future scope rather than now, yes?
 
yes
 
Cool
 
or tbh, don't mention it at all ;-)
 
1:00 PM
Maybe mention in considered features? Then it can stay on track somewhere in the wiki?
I think I get your point do to it as a simple feature first, yes?
 
@brzuchal you should make sure to think about how it integrates with reflection, specifically if it requires ReflectionStructure or ReflectionClass can isStructure() (i prefer the later)
or at least like reflectionmethod + reflectionfunction have a reflectionclassabstract and then reflectionstructure + reflectionclass extend from that
 
Morngin room
 
@beberlei TBH I was thinking about separate, a ReflectionStructure extends ReflectionClassAbstract sounds reasonable, cause structs have fields a different name but also don't have any visibility only a name, default value and type
@PeeHaa morning
 
ah you also need a ReflectionProperty for structs then. going to get some lovely new inheritance hierachies :D
 
yeah, need to think of it more
too bad it's not like ReflectionClass extends ReflectionType - that would be more obvoius
or maybe not
 
1:36 PM
@cmb huh, I guess not
That does make the question easier :)
 
cmb
@NikiC indeed. :) Seems this is just for export, and likely people should use VCWD_REALPATH() instead, anyway. Should probably remove the Win realpath() fallback as well.
 
2:13 PM
hi anyone here good at laravel
 
@NikiC wink wink some of my PRs wink wink
Although I need to rebase them
 
@JoeWatkins I've been practicing, "So, it has come to this." for things like the tootpaste tube is empty.
 
2:32 PM
@Girgias Yeah, and I think you should also change the messages after Nikita verified them ^^ (or this is what you meant by rebasing?)
but TBH, some of them are way too big even just to scroll them through :D
 
@MátéKocsis nah just git rebase, but some of them it's been a while ago (notably the mbstring) so I don't even know what I've done in it
Yeah I know
Need to check my setup on this laptop and redo some
(in smaller batches)
 
I think that will be nice :)
 
I also need to ping petk about one of the custom printf implementation in php-src
... so much to do
Erf I need to install an editor :( now question which one should I use
 
I use PHPStorm XD
 
To edit php-src?
The madlad
But could actually make sense
 
2:37 PM
:P at least the phpt files look good!
 
Yeah
I mean CLion can't do anything so might as well use PHPStorm cause I already have it
 
I also had a quick look at CLion but I didn't like it (forgot why)
ah yeah, it didn't display the phpt files nicely
 
Yeah
 
I have CLion and phpstorm mapped to it, CLion struggles a lot to resolve names though, probably because of the macros within macros, within macros, interlinked.
 
Also what's the opinion on this: github.com/php/php-src/pull/4992 ?
 
2:48 PM
What libraries do you guys use to import excel/csv files?
 
!!packagist phpoffice/phpspreadsheet
 
[ phpoffice/phpspreadsheet ] ・ PHPSpreadsheet - Read, Create and Write Spreadsheet documents in PHP - Spreadsheet engine ・ ★ 8012
 
An intern
 
lol
 
@Girgias I still think that the current exceptions just don't make any sense. :) Like throwing LogicException for "Expected callable as first argument"... So I'm all for the your changes! But I'm also very curious about other opinions!
 
2:55 PM
It probably made sense when it got introduced
But that's the story of SPL
 
I strongly doubt spl ever made sense tbh
 
That could also be true lol
 
@PeeHaa Indeed...
 
The full IntelliJ suite isn't that expensive, if you pay for it yourself. :-)
 
I'm a student
So I don't pay for PHPStorm currently
 
2:59 PM
OK, there's that.
 
@Girgias Don't worry, you can get the full suite for free if you do OS!
 
Get your job to pay for it.
 
Aye I'll do that when I need to :p
 
@Girgias ...
 
Shouldn't that read granted to?
 
3:01 PM
@Danack first time I hear about this, but thanks for the link :)
 
@Danack Please don't post that in public channels.
 
@Derick it's password protected...
 
oh ok :-)
 
(though I did just double check that as I wasn't sure.)
 
Paying for copies of PHPStorm is how we keep @NikiC on the job. :-)
 
3:03 PM
@PeeHaa it's a wiki :-)
 
I am honestly not sure now :P
I guess jetbrains is a contributor of software
 
They sponsor me too off and on.
(to work on Xdebug)
 
Makes sense. Their perpetual licence is a good offer, no-one would pay again each year if there were no new features
 
3:15 PM
@DaveRandom \o/
C:\Users\Pieter>nslookup mail.google.com 127.0.0.1
Server:  UnKnown
Address:  127.0.0.1

Non-authoritative answer:
Name:    mail.google.com
Addresses:  2a00:1450:4017:800::7d5
          172.217.17.165
Aliases:  mail.google.com
 
3:38 PM
Also don't really know what to do about github.com/php/php-src/pull/5151 cause the PHAR compiler warning is due to how rec2 generates the file, and the Tidy ones are an upstream issue :|
@NikiC what was your idea to fix the MacOS [-Wnull-pointer-arithmetic] warning in the socket extension? see: dev.azure.com/phpazuredevops/PHP/_build/…
Also this one about adding a TypeError to count (revisited) github.com/php/php-src/pull/4940 :|
 
@Girgias Disable the flag for these files and/or imported libs?
 
@Derick uhhhh, I suppose I need to tinker with Autoconf to do that?
But that's actually a good idea ...
 
let me see if I can find an example
 
Greatly appreciated
 
nope. Where I thought that was done, we didn't add the flags in the first place
 
3:48 PM
Welp I'll look around on the internet and the docs then
 
ext/intl/config.m4
has a -Wno-write-strings added. Similarly, you should be able to turn them off that way too
 
Okay, will have a look at it
 
@beberlei @Derick @Gordon Have any of you gotten a chance to play with the prototype?
 
@LeviMorrison nope. sorry.
 
@LeviMorrison :( life happend!
 
3:59 PM
I have not either... because @beberlei said he would ;-)
 
Roger. I think the next step is using the prototype to try and build tools to make sure we didn't majorly screw something up, so no pressure but... pressure :)
 
@LeviMorrison this is very high on my todolist, given i have a few hours uninterrupted
 
Definitely let me know what questions you have.
 
4:18 PM
@MátéKocsis did you already do the OpenSSL extension?
Cause I'm rebasing and it seems that you've done some of them alreayd lol
 
@Girgias Nope, I've only done some error message changes, but no warning promotions
 
Huh, okay but zend_argument_error does throw an Error right?
 
Well there was only one conflicting change so probably you changed one as a drive by change
 
 
1 hour later…
5:24 PM
@beberlei I was thinking about the reflection and what would be logic and make more sense is a huge BC break:
1. rename ReflectionType into ReflectionTypeConstraint
2. rename ReflectionNamedType into ReflectionClassTypeConstraint
3. extract ReflectionType from ReflectionClass
4. add ReflectionStruct extending ReflectionType
5. add ReflectionStructTypeConstraint
Does that make sense?
IMO this cleans the naming issue he already have with ReflectionType being used as a sort of constraing and opens up for future enum or generics. What you say?
 
"huge BC break", means that there is no way it will get accepted :-)
 
I think all 3 first points would benefit for all kind of future types
Yes, but there also is no better time to propose than major version, right?
Next one probably in 5-7 yrs
 
why is this a bc break?
 
@beberlei renaming classes
 
Renaming reflection classes?
 
5:26 PM
ah because ReflectionType is renamed
 
But @brzuchal I've got an easy solution for that
 
Cause ReflectionType is no longer what is now
 
i thought its just extracing stuff and reintroducing them
 
Make the old classes a child class from the Renamed class
 
doesn't work if ReflectionType means something new
 
5:27 PM
yeah sorry, thats going to be -1 from me. renaming for the sake of renaming without keeping the old names is no good
 
AH indeed didn't read the last bit
I'm fighting with compiling php-src on a new laptop
 
Yes, agree but as said in first line it should ideally look like that
 
if its just a naming thing, then you can find better (or worse) names that dont break BC or not?
 
(i.e. my Mum's) which is slow and hasn't much of the tools necessary installed
 
That would be adding some Abstract prefixes
Or introducing clean namespace like \Php\ReflectionType
with the new meaning
@beberlei other naming can be found for sure but most probably worse
 
5:30 PM
i got backslash for introducing Php namespace in attributes :)
 
there is nothing in manual for now about the union types, but after those thoughts it should be then ReflectionUnionTypeConstraint :)
@beberlei what do you mean?
 
i mean introducing the Php or subnamespaces might likely get you -1 votes
 
Agree but fear that it is a good and only one idea to clean up some mistakes
 
Weirdly enough I wouldn't personally mind that Reflection uses the PHP namespace, because it's never going to get out of core
I think that's one of the main "issues" with the whole PHP namespace
Is that an extension will start in PECL and probably at that time not be able to use the PHP namespace
If it get's added/bundled to php-src it could, but it's going to be annoying to adapt so probably it's just gonna stay in the global namespace
But even then if an extension get moved out of it and back to PECL then in theory it shouldn't use the namespace anyway ...
 
Ideally extension which is not core should have own namespace even if bundled but not a core feature, right?
 
5:35 PM
Yeah
But the thing is that most extension could be unbundled from php-src
 
So if something is core should deserve to get Php namespace prefix
You can't say that about Reflection I guess
 
Yeah that's the point
Like in all likelihood the JSON extension isn't going to be unbundled
 
Or PhpToken
 
But it could be moved back to PECL
 
And could be bundled or unbundled with \Json namespace for eg.
 
5:38 PM
Well PhpToken makes sense on it's own even if it would be in the PHP namespace just because Token is pretty damn vague
Yeah be don't have that one reserved
 
all traversable, IteratorAggregate etc. will never be unbundled
 
Tbh
If we do something like that
Instead of just chugging in SPL, I'd prefer to make it more sane
Like the Object Hirarchie makes not a lot of sense
 
example?
 
SplQueue inherits from SplDoublyLinkedList, so you can push and pop and do a bunch of other whacky stuff which you shouldn't be able to do
 
@Girgias should we go with an RFC with that kind of proposal? Could it be one wide enough to treat about all those cases with multiple vote for bundle of changes like it was for Warnings etc. promotion?
 
5:42 PM
@brzuchal About? Actually start using the PHP namespace?
The problem also then becomes that if we do it with Reflection
 
@Girgias Yes, with examples of what we talk about and how it could benefit
 
Currently some would be in the global namespace and other in the PHP
 
for eg. making a cleanup in Reflection classes
 
We can either have PhpToken and PhpAttribute, or PHP\Token and PHP\Attribute. We can't change existing classes, and I agree with Nikita that the PHP namespace should be reserved for PHP language/syntax based stuff, and not for example PDO, or DateTime.
 
There can be aliases, and separate RFC's for aliasing or moving
 
5:44 PM
The thing is I don't know how to not make it a massive duplication thing or a massive break
Aliasing is kinda annoying tho
 
@Derick Yes, the things which cannot be ever unbundled, Refleciton likely cannot be unbundled, right?
 
I mean technically you can't even compile PHP without datetime, but still I agree with the main premise that it should be reserved for very special things
Question is
Is Reflection one of those things
 
@Girgias but that's a way for maping global names marked deprecatet and proposing the right future one
 
Is a (new) standard library something which should go in there
Eeeeee, man, IDK, it's kinda complicated and I don't know where I stand on it
 
trying to propose it doesn't hurt
 
5:48 PM
Yeah, but as always the devil is in the details
 
ofcourse if you feel bad on rejection that's the max con you can get
 
Tbf rejection isn't that much an issue for me
 
Local newspaper is calling it a "war against COVID-19" now
 
if noone opens that can of worms noone does for next 5-7 yrs
 
I mean the French President did say that like 2 weeks ago @Tiffany lol
Oh for sure
If you write some draft I'm happy to co-author think about it
I just need to ponder on it a bit more and try to figure out where I stand on this issue
 
5:50 PM
@Girgias so why not? why not going with RFC for that? there is 50% chances it gets accepted
 
@Girgias oh, didn't know that
 
@Girgias Ok, will do
 
A little funny that we're using it now (I live in a town that swings conservative)
 
I mean there have been some excellent memes coming out of his speach
 
It surprises me Johnson hasn't shouted "Get Covid-19 Done" yet
repeatedly
 
@ircmaxell hm?
 
shouldn't that match anything (byte 00-FF)?
 
@ircmaxell Are you sure that's the right link?
 
Ah yeah
 
5:58 PM
I wonder why p💩💩 doesn't parse then
 
That looks more and more like a bug with the site
Maybe they implemented this in JS and always work on UTF-16? ^^
 
6:20 PM
Is session end and session expire 2 different things in PHP ?
 
Anybody knows what the woocommerce hook is to save an order?
 
According to the book munarch's php and mysql:
"As your application runs, PHP stores the $_SESSION array in memory. When the session ends, PHP saves the contents of the $_SESSION array in a file on the web server. Finally, PHP deletes this session data when the session expires."
 
@user123456789 yes, they're two different things
 
@user123456789 Think of it as "read session data from storage/create new session -> do stuff -> close session data and write to storage" then separately "When session expires -> delete data"
 
so session_destroy expires the session? Is there any way to end the session other than user closing the browser ?
 
6:36 PM
@user123456789 session_destroy deletes the session ... does what the function is named - destroys the session
 
@Girgias wiki.php.net/rfc/php-namespace-in-core something like that?
 
@user123456789 what problem are you facing that you want to fix? I don't understand what you want to achieve so can't answer your question.
 
@Danack I think just clarifying things, if they're reading from a book
 
I can't understand the significance of ending and destroying a session. Whats the difference and why 2 different things are needed instead of just deleteing the session.
Sorry, I am a beginner.
 
Contemplate chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/48947761#48947761 deeply.....I'm not entirely sure that it can be explained in smaller words...
 
6:40 PM
I searched on google but cant find anything
 
Though maybe saying "while the session is open in one request, it can't be opened by another request" - which leads to sessions from blocking requests from being processed in parallel: ma.ttias.be/…
 
@brzuchal @Danack Thanks
 
pretty sure you meant Tiffany there...
 
PHP crashes if call to session_create_id when session running ・ Session related ・ #79413
 
Oops!
 
6:57 PM
0
Q: Woocommerce new order then save

Korra4132I need to create a function that looks for all the new orders entered in woocommerce and then just update this order without changing anything. (like if you clicked on the order and then clicked update with everything remaining the same) The reason for this is that I'm bringing orders from anoth...

 
@GabrielDube I've commented there, but also, opening a question then spamming it instantly in a chat room is not a great move. It might be urgent to you, it's not urgent for anyone else.
 
@Danack Just one more thing. "close session data and write to storage" when does this happen ?
 
Also....nice alt account. Shame if anything were to happen to it.
@user123456789 either when you explicitly close it with something like php.net/manual/en/function.session-write-close.php or also when the request ends.
Closing it early can be useful if you know processing the data is going to take a long time, but you're not going to update the session data any more.
 
session_destroy() deletes all the data(even from the storage).
 
That is a statement.
 
7:09 PM
*?
 
@brzuchal That seems reasonable, when I got the time let me rewrite some parts of it in better English (no offence but some of it reads quite badly)
 
@Girgias @brzuchal PHP has the root namespace. All userland stuff can be done in a different namespace. Avoiding having to discuss what the namespace naming convention should be for core stuff is a greater benefit than avoiding collisions with userland stuff. Also, RFCs should probably do one thing ....moving to namespaces and renaming existing stuff would appear to be two things.
 
!!lxr json_encode
 
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• [ /php-src/ext/opcache/Optimizer/zend_func_info.c::578 ] F1("<b>json_encode</b>", MAY_BE_FALSE | MAY_BE_STRING),
• [ /php-src/ext/json/json.c::34 ] static PHP_FUNCTION(<b>json_encode</b>);
• [ /php-src/ext/json/json.c::46 ] PHP_FE(<b>json_encode</b>, arginfo_json_encode)
• [ /php-src/ext/json/json.c::76 ] /* options for <b>json_encode</b> */
• [ /php-src/ext/json/json.c::94 ] /* common options for json_decode and <b>json_encode</b> */
 
@Girgias Yes, please do that and add yourself to co-author please
@Danack I was trying to express it only as an example where it could benefit, not actually as what the RFC is about.
Purpose is to agree that root PHP namespace should be allowed to use for core stuff which will never be ubnundled and it not part of library wrapper in general, the core stuff without which PHP would be considered non-functional
Renaming stuff should be considered in separate RFC. The same as providing new stuff should be considered if should go into PHP namespace
 
7:38 PM
@Danack I read it once again by telling PHP has root namespace you meant the global namespace - unprefixed one, right? If so there are debates all the time about use of PHP namespace for core stuff without and they bring no agreement. So in the situation I've described in the example with Reflection the use of PHP namespace for naming cleanup seems to be the only way to do that.
 
We desperately need a \PHP namespace >.<
The rules of namespaces are pretty obvious... a higher level namespace owns everything below it... but internals wants to be different :S
wiki.php.net/rfc/php_namespace_policy wrote that a few weeks back
 
@MarkR I like your 1 and 2 section, I would avoid saying "are exclusively class-like" cause would like to introduce structs, and someday maybe enums gonna arive and would like to avoid situation where this sentence is gonna be questionable in proposing types in PHP namespace
 
> Introduction of PHP namespace also as a way for gradual migration over renamed and marked as deprecated symbols reducing breaking changes.
How / why @brzuchal?
 
if they would be loaded in the same style as classes / interfaces / traits / blah they'd come under that. The main thing is that if people wanted to polyfil them they'd have to do it all in one whack at request start, where as classes and other autoloadable things can always be autoloaded on demand
 
I wouldn't dissallow for aliasing function claims, for eg. token_get_all strictly related to core tokenizer, debug_backtrace maybe also, func_get_args etc. those this will last forever and are not something you can replace with
@PeeHaa I'm not sure about the words, but I see renaming changes and cleanup with ReflectionClass and ReflectionType which actually is ReflectionTypeConstraint etc. like in example - that the only way to do that in readable way is prefixing it with PHP
@PeeHaa IMO ReflectionType should be general abstract parent of ReflectionClass and therefore ReflectionType should be ReflectionTypeConstraint but cannot find better names when proposal of new Type would be in place. That's why I see it like:
<?php
namespace {
    class ReflectionClass extends \Php\ReflectionClass {}
    class ReflectionType extends \Php\ReflectionTypeConstraint {}
    class ReflectionNamedType extends \Php\ReflectionClassTypeConstraint {}
}
namespace Php {
    abstract class ReflectionType implements Reflector {}
    class ReflectionClass extends ReflectionType {}
    class ReflectionTypeConstraint {}
    class ReflectionClassTypeConstraint extends ReflectionTypeConstraint {}
}
 
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