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12:00 AM
Wait what?
I don't really follow her cause I got lowkeyed annoyed at her reply at the second Short Tag RFC, but I was just exhausted and fed up at that point (with the RFC)
 
A few months ago, she was one of the people I followed to find out about interesting PHP things then twitter stomped her
 
Huh
 
twitter.com/saramg that's all I know
 
Welp that's sad
 
Holy mother of I just checked twitter and there's a language evolution PHPInternalsnews!
To the media player!
 
12:20 AM
@Andrea Seems plausible.
@Andrea It was less than a year ago lol
 
 
7 hours later…
7:10 AM
i'm taking a course in php they told me to download XAMPP but i downloaded PHP separately and used php -S option to build a built-in server it works. but is it ok to do it this way or should I download XAMPP?
 
7:52 AM
@Manik while xampp is shit, php -S is not a full replacement for it. you won't have a database (mysql) included. but you could use sqlite instead which doesnt require a database server.
 
8:11 AM
 
cmb
\o
 
o/
 
8:28 AM
\o
1 message moved to Trash can
 
o/
 
i installed php simply by: $ sudo apt install php7.2 but i think something is wrong because others are doing sudo apt-get install php5 libapache2-mod-php5 php5-mcrypt etc.
should i install the other way?
 
8:44 AM
why would you want to install php5?
also, the second command simply installs more related apps & modules. Depending on what you want you might needs some of them for php7 as well
 
Sjon i don't, i just gave an example of what i found on google
i should've written this: sudo apt install php7.3 php7.3-common php7.3-opcache php7.3-cli php7.3-gd php7.3-curl php7.3-mysql
 
okay - well I cannot tell you what modules you want / need.
 
9:33 AM
\o
 
Morning
 
@Girgias Shouldn't we announce the "float to string" RFC on the list? :) We could improve the text during the discussion period
 
can i avoid installing whole LAMP by using nodeJS RESTful API?
 
moin
 
Good morning. Question: how to get a switch statement to compare values strictly? The only thing I could think of was to replace all switch statements in the code with if..(){..;}elseif(..){..;}else{..;}
 
9:47 AM
that is your only choice
 
Thanks, good to know I'm on the right track.
 
good old switch(true){ case $a === 1: ... ?
 
although try to avoid elseif and even else in general, and use the guard pattern instead
@pmmaga yeh but that's no more readable IMO
 
Madainn mhath! Ciamar a tha sibh?
 
guard pattern?
 
9:52 AM
@Derick Loved the last episode. Although did it accidentally get 30 minutes of empty at the end?
 
Gah. No. Kdenlive is being silly. I think. Need to check why it is doing that
 
google does not give me any useful result on guard pattern... i.pinimg.com/474x/ad/4e/0e/…
 
Ah, seems I'm already thought of that myself, didn't know it was called a guard pattern. I've learned a new word today :)
 
 
1 hour later…
11:01 AM
I am trying to configure a project locally how can I change evrey time a url reffers to for example localhost rewrite it with localhost:30081. I thought in .htaccess something like this: RewriteCond %{HTTP_HOST} ^localhost
RewriteRule (.*) localhost:30081$1 [R=301,L]
No luck
 
11:22 AM
no need figure it out in other way
 
11:45 AM
@DaveRandom @DaveRandom s/looking/available reliably/. Do you have a CV/GH repo (and are you able to send tax invoices?)
 
@Stephen not sure about the latter, former is just my screen name. I'm sure tax invoice can be arranged, I don't know how but I can learn :-P github is quiet lately because v busy but some acceptable stuff on there. In particular see "installs" of packagist.org/packages/daverandom/libdns :-P
(although popularity does not infer quality)
 
Er.. did you mix up latter and former?
 
maybe :-P
everything is on fire atm, yo
brain moving faster than fingers
 
I don't know if you meant you have a CV on S/O or your GH username is the same as here
or both.
 
Oh, I don't have a sane CV atm more than just my profile page and github
haven't used one for several years
 
11:51 AM
no worries.
 
the tl;dr is: I know what I'm doing and I am quite heavily geared towards infra/devops stuff
well, I "know what I'm doing" within the usual context that no-one really knows what they are doing, but I am at least aware of that :-P
 
your confidence sounds expensive lol. thanks for the tldr. I'll check out your GH.
 
well played
 
:|
 
i need this video righ tnow though
 
12:38 PM
yes, I was in danger of forgetting what day it is
 
every day feels like monday now
 
the eternal september of the soul
 
Linux/C question: Is there an atomic way to append to a file and also get the file offset that the kernel wrote from?
 
I'm going to go with no
it might be possible with some file systems but not universally
 
cmb
@Ocramius blame @Derick and @cmb (fixed by Rasmus)
 
12:51 PM
there are just too many components to that operation to make it atomic
 
Yeah I also could not find a way. I think the kernel serializes writes smaller than PIPE_BUF... too bad
 
1:06 PM
@adsr depending on your use case, it might be worth reading the docs/low level APIs relating to your specific file system(s)
sounds like a lot of effort though :-P
I think in general these problems are solved with a persistent broker process in user space rather than by the kernel - in a way what you are describing is one of the fundamental purposes of e.g. rdbms
 
@cmb no blame, just hoping for it to work :D
 
cmb
Well, it should be fixed now, and it was Derick and me who broke it. :|
 
need a bugs.bugs.php.net for reporting bugs in bugsnet
 
cmb
mailing to systems@ should be sufficient :)
 
1:29 PM
It doesn't matter, we'll all be dead from Microsoft® COVID-365™ soon
 
1:44 PM
@beberlei It sounds like you might have "got the morbs". Seems to be going around.
 
Mops and brooms = drunk
> wiki-php.net
Do you own that domain, or is it part of the PHP group?
 
Request response is open for voting...
 
If I have a service class that takes in object UserDetailsDto and now I want to use that same service class to do the exact same things but with another object ClientDetailsDto, should I use adapter pattern?
E.g. create a class that takes in any object and sets the values to call the common service class? OR just allow the service class to take in any object and not hard code it
 
@James maybe, or maybe not. Post some code (or pseudo code) as a gist though if you want a more detailed response.
 
2:00 PM
Different behavior of flock and include on PHP 7.3 and PHP 7.4 ・ *General Issues ・ #79398
 
@Danack TLDR: No.
@beberlei I think they're going to announce major closures for London in a couple of ours. No fun this weekend (and many future weekends).
 
@Derick if london is anything like manchester, the place is basically closed already
 
Really? There were so many people out and about on my high street, and people go to pubs and restaurants still...
 
fair warning, you might want to place something soft on your desk to protect your head, for the link I'm about to post.
 
2:10 PM
 
tram on the way in the this morning, that's 8.45 AM, normally packed like sardines
3 people on a 4 coach tram, one of whom was the driver
 
@Derick bavaria ordered everyone to stay home now, enforced by police. lets see what the other provinces in gemrany will do, bavaria is a day faster than everyone else on measures so far
 
John Dalton Street/Deansgate, one of the busiest junctions in the whole city
 
only reasos to go out: 1. work 2. doctor 3. groceries 4. helping people in need 5. going for a walk or sport ALONE
 
2:12 PM
xkcd.com/927 how I feel about that RFC
 
here u can sport with 1 other friend as long as u keep your 1m distance xD
 
@Danack I saw that on twitter. I've been boycotting Spoons for a while now... since Fuckwit Martin started pushing Brexshit
 
@beberlei Yeah. Although 5 could easily also be "going for a walk or run with people you live"
 
yes thats it essentially, sorry
 
2:14 PM
Wait... people have friends to go on walks with? D:
 
I'm in favour.
 
@MarkR not friends, household you live with
 
@MarkR Not me. I go on walks with just me. But it's a bit odd going to the shop with my wife and not walking together.
I do have to say though, there are so many more people running. Perhaps 10 times as much. Most gyms are closed.
 
ah no, going to the shop is only single person in bavaria
 
@Derick I can tell you a few that are open, because they are causing me a lot of fucking headaches rn :-P
although the only one I know in london is easygym camberwell
they aren't closing any time soon, and currently gym is pretty empty (I have cctv from it on my other monitor :-P)
 
2:18 PM
They'll be closing by the end of today, I bet.
 
I would hope so, but the owner will only accept that at gunpoint I think
 
He sounds like a lovely person.
 
<redacted>
:-P
 
errr having a brain freeze, what's the name of the feature where properties could have specific get / set methods (but still be set with $foo->bar = ...) with custom visbility that's been mentioned several times?
 
accessors?
 
2:22 PM
Ah ha yes, thanks Derick.
 
MOrning
 
trying to create example but cant for the life of me make phpfiddle work :wall:
 
@Derick Not sure if you're aware, but the past couple episodes of PHP Internals News have had 20 minutes of silence after the end of the recording.
 
@James just gist.github.com ?
 
2:37 PM
Here's an example (don't pick var names etc is just concept) codepile.net/pile/Dpx0yjpP I can rename mapper class to suit multiple uses (not just "user" related)
if I just delete the need for UserDataDto in mapAll() I can pass in any object, maybe this is ok?
 
@James presumably there is some state that is stored in the UserDataMapper class that isn't in your example? Otherwise you could just use a function...
 
There's no state, or object updated, it literally just maps a load of data to return
 
> configuration option "php_ini" is not set to php.ini location
$ pecl config-get php_ini
/usr/local/etc/php/conf.d/xdebug.ini
Maybe it's just broken shrug
 
@TheodoreBrown Yeah, just fixing it now
 
@James then just use two different functions? It doesn't need to be a class at all....I thought you were going to reply yes, in which case an adapter isn't required, but two separate interfaces might make your code easier to reason about, at the trade-off of length: gist.github.com/Danack/3d2504be1d593ebf63185870d1edb8d5
 
2:53 PM
if I just add another function it'd be entirely dupe code to do the mapping. I'll try to create a more common DTO I guess seing as that is the first point of dupe
 
@James Wow, this is weird - I just received an email you from 1 year in the future. The contents of the email is "Tell James, that future James thinks that was a bad choice." with a link to 'prefer duplication over the wrong abstraction'
 
James change the room name to "Sarcasm 2020"
:P
 
Ah, have to use pear config-set, not pecl config-set.
 
@Danack I read that, but surely one can create re-usable abstraction without it being limited to only the current few use cases? ie if I create a "MapperDto" that satisfies the mapper class, any other now and future objects can pass themselves to that factory and receive the mapped data
 
maybe, but that also sounds like a way to end up with a kitchen sink god-mode pile of spaghetti in the long term
 
3:02 PM
...yet another blog post I need to write. If an abstraction doesn't make your code simpler, then it's a shitty abstraction.
 
I sense an overengineered problem now lol
 
In this case, you're trying to find an OO solution when 'just functions' solve your problem completely. Adding a "re-usable abstraction" is something that a lot of people instinctively are drawn to at least in part because it sounds like a clever solution.
 
I feel like you're trying to say "trait" ?
and pass in array rather than oopyness
 
"then just use two different functions" is what I said and what I meant.
 
traits are almost never the answer to anything
 
3:05 PM
you're saying 2 different functions but also no oop. If no oop I don't have the issue, of type hinting a specific object in the mapper method. SO removing oop I Can also avoid dupe?
 
I haven't written that blog post, but I did give a talk that massively overlaps with this conversation: Good or bad - Telling the difference is hard.
 
ah yes, the Weinstein defence
 
ok ta :) always happy to take in info
 
@James if there's no state in the mapper class, then just get rid of it, and use two normal boring functions.
 
yeah seems like a sane solution. And noted about non-oop stuff not needing to be tied to oop stuff, thanks :)
 
3:08 PM
it's also (imho) acceptable to implement that in the form of two static methods in a class that you don't instantiate, because it's functionally identical and can play nicer with autoloading
 
@MarkR your email client seems to like breaking threads...
 
maybe it's his email client client
 
>.< it's mozilla thunderbird's NNTP client.
 
are either of those still a thing?
 
Yup, it's still actively developed and the mailing lists are all managed through ezmlm I think?
 
3:14 PM
ok I've changed to non oop function and just expect an array, but as have spearate objects that hold the data, and don't want to pass many individual properties I've used a serializer to set the DTOs to an array when the mapper function is called.
 
3:31 PM
why does php have 3 different functions for printing i.e echo, print_r, print. isn't print_r sufficient?
print seems pretty useless
 
@Manik it's an evolved language rather than a designed language.
See also, English.
 
print_r is recursive, echo allows multiple joined arguments
 
Danack is Python not evolved language it only has simple print?
 
echo and print are almost but not quite identical. print_r is a debugging tool.
 
@Manik thats not really right, print_r is debug functionality similar to pythons pprint function that you can import
 
3:34 PM
Evolved not in the "superior" sense, but in the "stuff was added kind of ad hoc over 25 years rather than as part of a cohesive grand plan".
So there's a lot of little inconsistencies and bumps and legacy stuff lying about.
 
ok thank you all
just got a bit confused cause more used to Python
 
Morgens o/
 
Feasgar math!
 
The way I see it: it indeed is going well :-)
 
The likely outcome for that one seemed quite predictable many weeks ago
 
3:44 PM
Exactly as I had expected and hoped.
 
@Trowski You aren't n windows by any chance are you?
 
@PeeHaa No, macOS.
 
k
 
@PeeHaa I am (obv) and will have time to do shit in ~45 mins
genuinely this time :-P
 
You brits finally decide there's a virus going around?
 
3:48 PM
I'm almost down to one page of tickets on freshdesk, when I get there I'm stopping for a bit
 
You say that now, but by calling it you just summoned the evil server gods and everything is going to burn down again :P
 
@Derick if only people explained their no votes, how can we know whether folks just dislike the idea or would like it with small changes?!!
 
nope, not my problem, I'm taking a break
 
:-)
 
also ftr the people here have been doing sensible shit, even if the government are fucktards
 
3:49 PM
Can we change other people's RFCs? I notice that it still says under discussion at the top rather than voted. Looks like it was just missed.
 
I think stuff like that is fine yes
 
@Trowski en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_pot_calling_the_kettle_black - unless you've moved to a more civilized country.
 
I have occasionally re-englished things, when people have said anything about it at all it's been "thanks"
 
@DaveRandom In general I can say the same, select fucktards not withstanding.
 
oh yeh, the crazies are still out in force
 
3:51 PM
@DaveRandom wait, you were thanked for doing something in the PHP project?
 
there was a guy licking a lamppost near the town hall last night
quite near the guy with a PA system with radio x on, banging a tamborine to the songs and shouting angrily at the speakers whenever the DJ said anything
all standard stuff
@salathe it has happened yes, on rare occasions :-P
although tbf that's generally when it's #11 regulars
 
@Danack Oh I know. I can say that local governments have been much better in general, but the idiot's response was (unfortunately) completely unsurprising.
 
why do I think you are canadian?
(assuming by "the idiot" you mean sir guffalot)
 
@DaveRandom Normally I'd say Darwin, but when the asshole takes down those around him…
 
@Trowski I get the impression he's entirely unaware of what's going on around him
 
3:56 PM
@DaveRandom The orange, narcissistic asshole bringing shame upon us. I usually just refer to him as "the idiot" for shorthand.
 
yeh see in the UK "trump" is kids slang for fart, so I like to use the correct name
he may as well be called donald guff
in fact, I'd argue that sniggering childishly at that has been the most unifying thing for this nation in the last 4 years :-(
 
I can't see a person in a red hat without getting visibly angry.
 
that girl is 14 btw
@Trowski christmas must suck
oh god I bet someone made maga santa hats didn't they
yup
 
@salathe I dislike everything about this RFC, including its author
 
Absolutely. So yeah, Christmas sucks, especially with Trumper relatives.
 
4:05 PM
see that reads like "farting relatives"
 
Do you not fart after a huge christmas lunch?
 
try and start thinking about it in those terms, it will make your life much more amusing and tolerable
@Derick oh, like a goose in the fog
that's a weird expression
never understood that. I've never heard a goose fart, nor does fog impact sound
 
geese are loud, and fog makes them hidden
 
My favorite song of 2019, hands down.
 
@Derick "foggy goose, hidden fart", the less successful sequel to crouching tiger
2
 
4:11 PM
@Trowski watched this via a https connection to youtube :p
 
@Manik I… err… what? Good for you…
You can be certain no one inserted a fake Oli.
 
technology is always showed in such a bad light as in that song(if i understand it correctly) we wouldn't be able to do half the things if there were no "wires"
 
@DaveRandom LOL
 
@Manik You're taking it too literally. It's not meant to be black and white.
 
4:27 PM
array_map preserves keys if array_unique is used before ・ Arrays related ・ #79399
 
@AsyncBot o.O
 
On 3/19/2020 8:02 AM, Derick Rethans wrote:
> [PHP-DEV] PHP 7.4.4 Released!

Other release announcements do not appear to have an exclamation point at the end of the subject line.
why in deity's name would you email about that?
 
There's a pandemic on, people have to find ways to occupy their time in lockdown
 
That has to be that mike spammer?
 
4:32 PM
nope
 
@Derick *deletes draft email*
 
:-þ
 
people are weird
 
@salathe you forgot to send your mail for RM
<3
 
cmb
^ +1
 
4:33 PM
@PeeHaa *deletes other draft email*
 
cmb
:(
 
Please do though :)
I will personally write a piece telling everybody how good your are for the community,, that I could have met you a couple times and that you are working and living in scotland and love kittens
 
lol
 
@Derick always open to OH :-P
ok @PeeHaa what did you want with windoze?
 
21 hours ago, by PeeHaa
@DaveRandom git clone https://github.com/PeeHaa/async-dns-server.git && cd async-dns-server && composer install && php ./bin/server.php
 
4:47 PM
kk#]
wow half a beer and double char mistype
also stahp using https for git
:-P
 
github always gives me that as default :)
Ain't nobody got time for changing that :P
 
I have had sooooo many problems with upstream push, in particular, which have been instasolved by swapping to ssh
ok so what am I doing, just querying it for random crap?
 
21 hours ago, by PeeHaa
nslookup example.com 127.0.0.1 this works
 
Change this line github.com/PeeHaa/async-dns-server/blob/master/bin/… to the ipv6 loopback one
And try to query again nslookup example.com localhost
I dump the client address here github.com/PeeHaa/async-dns-server/blob/master/src/… which seems ipv6ish
 
4:53 PM
yeh repro'd
 
\o/
Awesome
 
give me a few mins to fiddle and poke
 
Now I am thinking that maybe the stripping of [] is causing it?
 
string(11) "[::1]:56065"
that's what got passed to sendto
 
hmmm seems about right to me
Surely I am doing something stupid then :P
 
5:02 PM
@Trowski I assume that UDP on IPv6 is tested?
in so much as it works on a basic level
I'm wondering if there may be some missing flags or something
@PeeHaa have you tried this on *nix?
 
Nope
 
k I'm starting there
 
/me is throwing out random guesses
 
wouldn't have thought so but maybe
I've never really buggered about with IPv6 in PHP due to the fact that it currently doesn't really work just as a general property of the internet
 
It was mostly accidental for me too as windows apparently treated localhost as ipv6 by default now
 
5:06 PM
yes it has since w7 sp1
(iirc)
 
I assume it's still just based on hosts file right?
Yes I am that lazy sorry :D
 
I'm going to try writing a small C program and see if I can get it to work there, my suspicion is that this is something broken/incomplete in php-src
 
ouch
 
I don't have a *nix vm with a sane version of PHP on it to hand, testing there would be a good idea
 
I will ask @Ekin
 
5:08 PM
if that ^ is the case, it's likely it's something in a #if PHP_WIN32 path
because I can't believe it's fundamentally broken in general
but I can't see anything that would cause it in userland
I'm suspecting a missing flag, like it's trying to anycast to localhost or something
 
@DaveRandom On *nix yes, on a basic level.
 
cmb
@DaveRandom do you have a PHP with github.com/php/php-src/commit/… ? item 3 may be relevant.
 
@DaveRandom ipv6 on local loopback address works on nix (it blew up your encoder, but that's a different issue :D)
 
5:47 PM
@Derick someone complained about you having an exclamation mark in your email subject line? wat
people are ridiculous
 
yes, exactly. WAT
 
is there a polite way to say "pull the stick out of your ass, please"
 
Yeah, it's "don't bother replying to the email"
 
6:16 PM
hi. i'm currently learning PHP and would like to know if it's a good idea to start with the Laravel framework. are there more popular MVC frameworks which are better to start with?
 
cmb
@PeeHaa works with current PHP 7.4.5-dev on Windows as well
 
@qd0r It's not the worst place to start. But at some stage you should also learn to be able to write code that doesn't solely exist within the Laravel ecosystem.
 
hmmm I am on .2 worth it to try on .4? @cmb
 
Also....some of the things Laravel does are ...kind of not the best way of doing things. But if you just learning PHP, they'll be fine for the time being.
 
6:26 PM
ah sucks awesome
cc @DaveRandom ^
 
@Danack okay, thank you. I have around 15 years experience in C# so i'm not a beginner in programming. but I definitely am in PHP
 
damnit :P
But better I guess
 
cmb
Yep, much better, I think. Apparently same as on Linux.
 
Thanks for testing <3
 
cmb
6:27 PM
yw
 
@qd0r oh in that case Slim might be a better thing to check out. It does a lot less, but also doesn't do as much wrong...
 
is there not an "established standard" which MVC framework is used by most of all people?
it's a bit confusing when i google. the list of popular frameworks is so long
 
@qd0r laravel is not mvc
By definition
 
@Tiffany that's nice! thank you
it might be much better to learn by going through this tutorial
 
6:32 PM
don't use apache or nginx as a web server with that tutorial, only the built-in PHP web server (which isn't a production level server)
IIRC, there's a part or two that might be a little buggy, but for the most part, it's a good tutorial
 
okay thank you - i will do :)
 
I should probably try fixing it and send a PR
 
If you want something simpler to do local testing, WAMP/MAMP stacks do exist and they can be easier to get set up and running in a way to exposed to the Internet
 
@Machavity that won't work with Patrick's tutorial though :P
 
Working from home now.
No long drive commute.
 
6:45 PM
It seems that readonly properties rfc won't pass :(
 
ಠ╭╮ಠ
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
 
I'm a bit surprised about that one
I certainly didn't expect a majority against
 
I used apache with Patric's tutorial. You just have to adjust the code.
 
@MarkR Must have changed a lot. When I voted, it tipped from passing to failing (< 2/3).
 
@LeviMorrison currently 17 to 16 against
 
6:51 PM
Get his Professional PHP book. Goes more into detail.
 
7:43 PM
@MarkR it's equal again!
 
\o/
 
chicagotribune.com/coronavirus/… well, you guys have me for a while
I can only go outside to get groceries, or to the pharmacy, or for a walk
 
they're shutting down new york too
 
starting to feel like a Black Mirror episode
stimulus checks of 1200 USD to individuals, and there's bipartisan agreement?
 
They're covering wages up to £2400 a month in the UK... we're one step away from universal basic income
 
8:12 PM
Nah. UBI is a whole different ball of wax
 
8:29 PM
@MarkR that's after taxes, right?
 
I have no idea
 
@MarkR its a good measure, we have it in germany for a long time. companies can ask the state to cover your wages, up to 60% from the net income here. and government also pays full social insurance (health and pension) for up to a year. its essentially like unemployment benefit, but without loosing your job
 
the german state can afford it, but countries like mine won't, at least not for long.
 
where are you from?
 
Romania.
 
8:40 PM
ah right
 
We have 300 cases, everyone is panicked and the flood of fake news doesn't help.
 
300 cases of beer.Sounds like you have nothing to worry about
 
Not if you have hyperuricemia :D
Gout it's really a pain in the foot.
 
PHP does not parse postgres ISO or RFC date times ・ Date/time related ・ #79400
 
00:00 - 21:0021:00 - 00:00

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