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12:45 AM
@JustinKaz What is this verification for, exactly?
 
To a real human being...
For purchases, interactions, data access, etc.
 
@JustinKaz Well, I mean you don't need to verify anyone's identify in order to let them make a purchase. There are other fraud prevention avenues for that.
amazon, for example, doesn't even know my name.
And I've been buying stuff from them for over 25 years.
Never once had a fraud issue that wasn't instantly resolved.
 
They do "know your name" they have it with the Credit Card
 
Nope.
I use a prepaid card that does not verify card holder name or address to merchants.
As far as amazon is concerned my name is A.B.
 
Sadly, your account would be flagged.
 
12:51 AM
For what?
Being a good life-long customer?
It seems your idea of fraud prevention is far removed from industry standards. There are people with far more vested interest than you trying to prevent fraud on the Internet (namely, banks with billions of dollars at stakes).
 
I want to create a system that helps people talk to people. Where it's really you, and your relationships with other companies. A place where you could see your bills/pay them in like a uniformed matter.
 
OK, well that's very different from fraud with credit cards.
 
Eventually, I'd love to help municipal entities connect with you through the service. So you can do things like renew plates etc.
Yep.
It's just general fraud.
or more or less nefarious activity.
 
But FWIW, I assure you the vast majority of people on the Internet enjoy a certain level of anonymity. Trying to break with that is usually met with massive resistance.
 
I'm kind of hoping to create a system where spam is less likly than others. I'll never be able to eradicate it but can help the average person not get spammed by the "Nigerian Prince" who just wants his money back.
I'm creating a place for that.
 
12:55 AM
LOL, and you think that by verifying people's identities you are going to cut down on spam?
 
Kind of like a persona... or profile of a profile. Brands, Business, incognito people can use these to interact with the community but if they do something illegal... we know where to look.
 
You have some mighty idealistic world view there. I wish you luck.
 
No but I'll help make spam more laible for losses. Make it more complicated for spammers.
Yes I do.
I want to change the world...
LOL
 
Yea, you and a billion other idealistic inexperienced optimists. It's good to try but at the end of the day it's far better to try and understand.
I don't discourage you from pursuing the difficult or even the impossible. I just caution that the road ahead is not as straight-forward or smooth as you might like.
 
Which is what I'm doing.
Oh this passion project of mine has not been easy
It's been a very very long and bumpy road... one still under construction!
 
1:00 AM
@JustinKaz Well, first lesson: the world is not perfect. It is filled with noise and chaos and unforeseen circumstances. Don't allow the perfect, signal-bound, cosmos of the finite state machine fool you into trying to view the world for what it isn't.
Learn instead to live in an imperfect world :)
That is far more sane.
Here's the clear difference: In a perfect world you could verify identity on the Internet with absolute certainty. In the real world you can't. So instead you learn to make certain compromises that are more pragmatic and don't hugely burden the user (what you're suggesting, for example, verify 3 OAuth accounts) is a huge burden to the user. It's impractical (not everyone uses OAuth providers).
 
A good defense is often a great survival technique to the chaos of the world. A gated community tends to help minimize chaos... but chaos still leaks through and gated communities tend to be exclusive not inclusive. This is the starting point of my idea. Plus grow and understand and adapt to change.
 
Learn to be practical. It's an important virtue.
 
Verying a phone number or credit card - is practical. Phone numbers are easy to attain and credit cards are a matter of user prefrence not to add.
Most users hate adding credit card data - unless they are making a purchase.
 
@JustinKaz That is ideal, except that you will never practically build enough critical-mass around such a heavily gated thing in reality. It's more of an onus than a benefit in the eyes of the average person.
 
onus?
 
1:04 AM
A burden
If you force me to jump through enough hoops I'll just go find a different thing. The Internet is filled with things :)
You will never change the world by trying to make it perfect. That is the reality here.
 
"@thisismyname, the next step is adding a default payment method.

You can use many forms of payments when conducting transactions. We will charge you a one-time account fee of $1.99. Collecting this fee helps us stop spam across our platform.

If you make a purchase within 24 hours, we may refund your account fee. However, if you do not make a purchase, within that time, the charge will be used to help support account security."This was the orginal approach.
 
Good luck with that
 
I kind of wanted to keep this but this limits people registering to those making purchases... which is a big part of the business model... but my research says people don't like to do this.
 
You're overthinking things
None of this is pragmatic.
 
true
 
1:07 AM
In that you aren't solving an actual problem that anyone sees as a problem.
Be wary of problems that only exist in your head.
 
Especially the voices.... >_>
 
You know how many companies go bankrupt trying to solve problems that didn't exist?
 
Identity Theft is a problem. Part of this service is kind of like PayPal, amazon marketplace, etc... help people make secure transactions. Also helps small business have an eCommerce presence.
Its more a passion project than a business.
but this is outside the scope of the chat... lol
 
@JustinKaz Except that you aren't trying to solve Identify Theft. You're trying to prevent fraud/spam in some narrow dark corner of the Internet. Meanwhile Identify Theft exists offline.
 
If I was paying for a service that that wanted to charge my customers up front before purchase, that would probably put 90% of them off, I'd be wanting 10 million USD in indemnity insurance from you up front in case anything you had protected was used for identity fraud
 
1:10 AM
The difference between PayPal/amazon and co, and what you're saying, is that those companies rely on big Banks to prevent fraud. They don't try to reinvent the wheel here.
 
But it's still a broken wheel.
 
Is it?
 
yeah... the reality of me collecting or charging for verification is a proven bad idea.
 
Seems to work for the multibillion dollar financial institutions of this world.
 
I may just employ a wiser system.
 
1:13 AM
Charging a few dollars isn't going to compare vs the billions of dollars in R&D and supercomputer-level AI banks are throwing at things to avoid fraud... and they have a lot more data than you have, almost every single transaction made
 
In other words, don't call yourself tall if you can't even stand on the shoulders of giants.
 
I'm already bigging back on the majority of that fraud protection. I just don't have a great way to prevent communication fraud. I can prevent fraud on business transactions in the app (or atleast limit it) but what about people being convinced to do so on other apps through the app.
 
Honest question, how many statistics PhDs do you have on the payroll?
 
"communication fraud"?
What even is that?
 
It's a passion project - not a development firm... it's more me doing years of research and trying to solve as many of the problems with starting a service of this magnitude as possible.
 
1:18 AM
Okay, maybe that was a bit dickish of me, but the reality is that it takes an enormous amount of knowledge to even scratch the surface of this sector.
 
Yes. This has been my discovery.
 
I honestly don't think you have a project here.
A project, by definition, has a definite beginning and end.
 
What should have been obvious with even a small amount of research... is the huge scale of the undertaking.
 
You don't even seem to have a thesis statement.
 
@MarkR yep. I've been very creative with managing scale... work on parts of it that are resellable as the whole is being developed. Not great but atleast not endless years of development without some roi.
@Sherif I can't disagree with that statement. I have a definable beginning, which lets me learn user behavior and grow.
 
1:25 AM
@JustinKaz Yea, that's not a project. That's a hobby.
 
What do you guys use to generate documentation of your source code.
Or like a manual.
 
@SalOrozco phpdoc?
 
Not internal. Maybe more like help pages. more like php.net
 
@SalOrozco phpdoc isn't bad. I document my code in code and then software like that pulls it out. Than modify where needed. Most editors will have tools to help you document in comments - in a standard way - that can be pulled out later to generate documentation.
demo.phpdoc.org/Clean - it's a demo showing what it can do.
 
@SalOrozco You do realize php.net is built on phpdoc, right?
 
1:31 AM
Really
 
Yes, really.
 
@Sherif yes... but it's like my Mona Lisa.
 
So all doc blocks in your source get extracted into the those pages right?
 
@SalOrozco No, phpdoc is more than just docblocks. The php documentation is actually built from a repository of XML arranging the different parts of the PHP project.
But it's all compiled with phpdoc
 
1:45 AM
Good stuff, reading the phpdoc documentation now.
 
2:40 AM
evening lurkers
 
Evening @JoeWatkins
 
bad weather is ruining my night, what's ruining yours ?
 
Realising I'd forgotten to write scripts to populate several pieces of data in my database bootstrap process
 
I win at having a bad night, you're probably not frightened by the missing code ... my rational mind knows there's not much to be scared of, but lizard brain and body don't care and jump and shake a little when there's loud noises ...
and they are so loud, changes in air pressure keep shaking the doors and windows ... I really hate bad weather here, luckily it lasts weeks only ...
 
What's frightening is I'm doing bulk database operations... and I've got a live connection to the production database running in a near-identical-looking docker container.
 
2:47 AM
that's a scary sequence of words, I grant you that ...
live, production, database ...
 
Luckily it's just bloody freezing in the UK
Indeed. Which is why I'm doing it at 3am
 
I once the production database
 
can't tell if input error or joke about missing data because production database is scary ...
 
But on a serious note I actually did screw up the entire production database on the job once.
I wrote a bad query.
... that shockingly made it past QA
 
My boss sometimes asks me to do things and I say it comes with a risk of causing problems and he panics, I remind him that almost everything I do is half a dozen bad keystrokes away from destroying our infrastructure
 
2:59 AM
@MarkR Is it a relatively small engineering team? That tends to happen more often in smaller teams in my experience.
What you need is to start building an SRE team.
 
Yes it is.
 
Step 1) Strengthen and standardize the code review, QA, and deployment process. Step 2) Start building an SRE team. Step 3) Profit
 
I am the code review. I make plenty of profit ;-)
 
Well, even senior engineers shouldn't be allowed to review their own code. Peer review means more eyes, which means more oversight, which means higher probability of catching non-obvious mistakes.
We call that technical due diligence.
 
I'm a one man team. Rubber ducky's aren't so hot for code review, they just tend to sit there and look confused.
 
3:03 AM
OK, one man shows don't apply, obviously.
 
@MarkR your the only developer at the company you work for?
 
You're currently in an "invisible until you fuck up" position.
 
I'm the only one on this project.
I'd not call it invisible per se, I directly support more than half a dozen technicians, and report directly to the director of IT and the CEO.
 
@MarkR All those things make you less visible.
 
I'm visible to the people who I need to be visible to, and not visible to the people who would annoy me with things I don't want to be bothered with.
 
3:16 AM
You are invisible in the sense that nobody is going to say "oh, Mark is the reason this thing is working so good right now", but then visible in the sense that when thing stops working everybody comes looking for you.
This is the nature of IT.
 
Perhaps, but it's not the nature of my role.
 
You're in IT. This is your role (to be invisible).
We work with the virtual, the illusory, the mysterious. We are by general consensus magicians.
 
The methods are secretive, the results are not.
 
Yet the results aren't directly attributed to anyone.
 
Perhaps in your environment, not so in mine.
 
3:20 AM
When I use facebook I have no idea who works there. Nor do the other 3 billion people using it.
Similarly, I have no idea how my Internet works. But it works!
Point is the only time anyone goes looking for people in IT is when things stop working.
 
If the job is to fix the printers yes... Lead Engineer who decides what features get added and how? Not so much.
 
This is exactly how I feel when dealing with nontechnical ppl. They have no clue what is going on.
 
@MarkR Only when you consider that visibility is limited in scope to only the people who work with or under that Lead Engineer. I'm talking about visibility at the broadest scope (end-user-level).
Consider the alternative. A CEO has massive visibility.
When things go wrong (or right) everyone knows who the CEO is.
Nobody knows who you are.
 
I don't give the slightest damn if the end users know who I am :P
 
@MarkR Never said you did. Just stating that you are in an "invisible until you fuck up" position :)
 
3:27 AM
We deliberately put 3 lines of defence between me and ever having to deal directly with non-technical end users. They irritate me
 
It's not by choice. CEO's I'm sure would rather not have such visibility all the time. The only time IT people tend to gain massive visibility is when things go horribly wrong. That's just the reality of the field we work in.
 
If our entire system went down, no end users would even know I existed.
 
Perhaps not at first. But people will come looking for who's responsible and eventually you gain visibility as this overture expands.
 
That's why they pay project managers ;-) to deal with the clients
 
Not sure what that has to do with what I said, but sure
 
3:33 AM
I'm not sure exactly what you expect, clients burning the developers' houses down? :-) different parts of companies have different responsibilities, and mine isn't dealing with clients.
(Mercifully, I'm not a people person)
 
Who said I expected anything? I made a statement. I set no expectations.
 
Mkay, well we'd best lay off for the night as I've no idea what your argument is anymore :S
Almost 4am, have a good night / morning all!
 
@MarkR I never made one
 
3:49 AM
What's a good resource of PHP source code to study.
 
@SalOrozco The source code?
 
Source code of a project that's considered the right way of doing it in PHP.
 
@SalOrozco That assertion assumes there is a right and wrong way of doing things. I don't believe it's that simple. There are many shades of grey inbetween.
That said, nothing makes PHP particularly special when it comes to writing good code.
 
Well good code in general.
Especially when dealing with manually mapping data.
 
Same general principles apply. Use good names. Don't create too much asymptotic complexity. Stick to consistent coding styles when collaborating with others. etc... etc...
All beyond the scope of PHP.
@SalOrozco You want a good guide on writing good software read Code Complete
 
And yet you ask the very question at the heart of its thesis statement?
 
Very good stuff.
Is one thing to read it.
Applying is a different story.
 
Code Complete is a pretty pragmatic guide. Can't imagine it getting any more pragmatic than that.
 
Yes is one of my favorite books.
 
If Code Complete didn't help you I can't see how anything I have to offer will.
 
3:58 AM
Definitely helped. There are still gaps in my knowledge.
 
Such as?
 
Like mapping data.
 
What is meant by "mapping data".
We're lacking context here.
 
Some use active record.
 
That's an anti-pattern.
 
3:59 AM
While others use a object-relational mapper.
 
Those are peas of the same pod.
Active Record is an ORM.
They're not mutually exclusive things as you just phrased them.
This is like saying some people use thumbs and some people use fingers.
 
So the other option is to use a database abastration layer DBAL like from doctrine right?
 
Again, those aren't competing ideas.
@SalOrozco You appear to be suffering from "there must be a single way of doing things". There isn't. Learn the tradeoffs of the different methods, but try not to focus so much on which one is necessarily right or wrong. If you try and view it from that mindset you will surely drive yourself mad and get nowhere in the process. Instead, try to think of it in terms of "X is good at A, B, and C while Y is good at D, E, and F"
That way you can at least make a more informed decision about what's best for you and your particular use case.
 
I believe to be something easy. I just dont know any better.
 
Well, a big part of knowing better is about having experience with different things and being able to speak to the merits and cons of those things when pitted against one another.
 
4:06 AM
Funny you say that.
I have been trying to stay away from what is considered bad practice. In recommendation from ppl in here.
 
For example, using an ORM, in my experience, tends to yield the benefit that you no longer have to be concerned with which flavor of SQL or database you're using underneath. You can instead focus entirely on writing portable application layer code. The problem, however, is that this tends to produce developers with no real understanding of SQL or DBMS' and their performance trade offs.
And the fact that in 20 years of working with database I don't ever recall a single time when we changed the DBMS mid-project.
 
Well, I read this book that using an ORM would be bad because every change to the database you have to do alot of changing to the code.
Tightly couples the database to your code.
 
@SalOrozco The exact opposite.
ORMs decouple the database from the code. They are an abstraction that sits between your application and your database such that your code remains resilient (portable) to database-specific language.
 
Whats the alternative
 
Using vendor-specific DDL.
 
4:13 AM
What's your approach.
 
That depends on the use case. In almost all cases where there is mission-critical data involved I tend to justify the use of tightly coupled DDL/DML to the application as it's usually pretty obvious what the architectural constraints are. In cases where that design decision can be deferred, perhaps there's an ORM, perhaps there's some middle ground such as a pluggable driver.
The correct approach is always an informed decision based on what is required and what tools can get us to those requirements.
But, if you don't know the tradeoffs of each, how can you possibly decide?
 
I know there is google, but do you know any good resources so I can explore the topic further.
 
Your brain
Use the different options you have. Try each of them. Figure out what the tradeoffs are to each.
No book, website, tool, or advice can replace the thinking and experience of a skilled Engineer.
 
Try and fail.
 
If you want to know what's the best X or Y.... why not use both X and Y and figure it out for yourself. At least then when somebody approaches you and asks which you prefer you can actually justify why you prefer X or Y or both and for what reasons.
Otherwise, you're just a puppet... who's pulling the strings?
 
4:21 AM
Your right.
 
You're is correct there.
Your is possessive, you're is YOU ARE
 
blanket statements are always wrong
4
 
How far along in your career till you felt like you felt comfortable with your skills.
 
@SalOrozco Well, let's see... I started doing this about 20 years ago so.... I'll let you know when I get there.
If you read my SO profile you should see...

#full disclosure
*I have no idea what I'm talking about…*
 
good answer ... while "DIY" is generally good advice, knowing when you don't know something well enough to make a decision, and knowing who to defer too is also a valuable asset to a programmer ... we can't all know everything ... you should be comfortable standing on whoever has the strongest shoulders ...
 
4:24 AM
Just saying, been doing this for some time. I still feel like horrible lol
Especially coming in here.
 
@JoeWatkins +1
 
How about you Joe how did you get so good? Tell us your secret?
 
Half my career-altering decisions were to defer to someone more skilled than I :)
We all get good the same way. By failing.
and learning from those failures
Some of us just fail faster than others ;)
 
I don't consider myself good
 
Surely, you're better than you were at an earlier point.
I think what they mean is how have you improved.
 
4:34 AM
well sure ... I think what I'm trying to communicate is ... I don't consider myself naturally able ... some things I'm naturally able to do, bash out a tune on almost any instrument I've ever been with for more than an hour, work a bit of wood into a nice object, I'm sure there are things you're good at too without having to really put in much effort ... but when it comes to computer science, I struggle with the math that underlies it, math does not come naturally to me at all ...
any skill I do have is a result of hard graft, and even if math comes naturally to you, I can't imagine it's any different for anyone ...
 
@JoeWatkins The concept of intuition can actually become biased towards a particular set of skills, sure :)
 
I think in all cases it's only a matter of hours spent, in any field before you can talk authoritatively about any subject matter you must absorb a certain amount of information, and in cs that's usually a vast amount of information ...
 
Agreed. All skills can be learned. No matter how unnatural they may come.
 
That maybe it. You playing music instruments. I've read that changes how your brain communicates, between left and right.
Not all skills.
In sports, not everyone can be good.
Some are limited by their physical abilities.
 
we don't really understand brain stuff well enough to make that sort of statement with any certainty ...
 
4:46 AM
@SalOrozco There are some studies that indicate taking up an artistic or creative talent can actually improve cognitive functions. After all, it was Albert Einstein that said "Imagination is more important than knowledge.". As for sports you don't necessarily have to be good at them to learn from what they offer you: In sports you learn to deal with defeat and loss as usually one side must win and the other must lose.
Learning how to deal with defeat is actually a very important life skill.
 
What I'm saying is. A person with more physical natural gift has a higher ceiling. Then those with not as physically gifted.
Even if they learn the same skills.
 
I don't find that to be true. A higher ceiling in what area?
 
It will become natural to the more athletic person.
 
you can't learn to be intuitive, you can't even learn enough to replace intuition ...
some people understand maths, their model making kit can just do math
 
Higher ceiling as far as how good they can get.
 
4:49 AM
mine can't, I struggle with it at the most basic levels ... I can learn to understand it but it's difficult
 
For example, a basketball player that is born to be 5 foot 8 inches in height.
Compared to a player that is 6 foot 6 inches.
 
@JoeWatkins Actually the brain is a rather resilient pattern-recognition-machine. It's best quality is that it can learn to adapt at many things by recognizing old patterns, new patterns, and drawing parallels between the two. There is scientific evidence of that.
 
It's just no comparison.
The taller person just has a huge advantage. They can see the game from different angles.
I believe there are some things you can't learn.
Some people are just so calm and collective at all times. So sure of themselves. Yet other people struggle in social settings.
 
@SalOrozco That's not really proof that you can't learn those things. It's, at best, proof that some people are bad at learning them.
 
@Sherif well it doesn't help me in the real world, I can remember Beethoven for 25 years but have to look up the much much simpler details of almost any algorithm I've ever worked with when I have to work directly with it ... it's not enough to say that they must use the same kind of machinery according to some magnets and lights ... I can't get the math stuff to work properly ...
 
4:53 AM
Otherwise how'd the other guy get there? Did they come out of the womb knowing everything about nuclear physics?
@JoeWatkins Yeah, but that's just knowledge. I don't commit those things to memory which are easily referenced elsewhere.
Where intelligence truly comes in is when you apply knowledge to imagination and arrive at innovation.
 
Yeah you can't memories everything.
I constantly have to look back at stuff I've done. For reference.
 
After 7 years of Stack Overflow, I'm just learning that there's a chat
 
lol
 
How do you look at a bird and arrive at "I can recreate that with 300 metric tons of fiber glass, wiring, and mechanical gears, add 65K pounds of thrust and it'll fly the same!" ... one word: imagination
 
I've always been fascinated with birds flying.
 
5:02 AM
I know you're speaking in metaphors, but that didn't actually happen
 
It had to. Everything man has created can be found in nature.
 
someone saw a bird and imagined people flying ... what they didn't do is imagine a plane ...
 
From mandelbrot sets to wireless communication.
 
I often imagine people flying like birds.
 
@JoeWatkins Yes, it's a leap. I'm saying leaps are hard without imagination.
You can't leap if you can't at least imagine that you land somewhere safe on the other end.
 
5:05 AM
a while ago, I wrote out a big message about being a specialist, then didn't send it because it sounded like the kind of advice I don't feel qualified to give anyone .. but that would be my career advice if you twisted my arm for it ...
 
Send it.
 
the plane was actually arrived at by specialists working hard, so now it seems relevant ...I don't deny imagine is involved in the creation of things, but to be imaginative in the right kind of way requires that you are a specialist in the right thing ...
 
@JoeWatkins Were they though? Specialists, that is? IIRC, the Wright brothers had no formal training in mechanical engineering.
... nor did anyone on their team for that matter
 
the thing you are talking about, yes, it was designed by specialists ...
 
I suppose you're talking about the modern Jet.
 
5:10 AM
> 300 metric tons of fiber glass, wiring, and mechanical gears, add 65K pounds of thrust and it'll fly the same
I don't remember the video of a wright brother strapping themselves to anything that matched that description :)
like I said, imagination, leaps, sometimes physical ones, are required ...
 
I should hope not
@JoeWatkins True story though, the video was recorded months after they initiated their first flight.
No one was there to witness the original event.
just a useless piece of general knowledge for ya
 
good morning
 
morn o./
 
5:28 AM
Good morning
 
5:40 AM
Good night
 
 
1 hour later…
7:05 AM
posted on January 21, 2020

 
 
2 hours later…
9:00 AM
o/
 
cmb
\o
 
9:15 AM
o/
 
9:32 AM
o/
 
Madainn mhath!
 
10:21 AM
I just whatsapp typo'd telling my dad to "shitdown" his computer
 
10:37 AM
Hi there, is there a php ini setting to disable args in exception traces? When I run this on my machine I don't see 'args': 3v4l.org/aYLU5
 
@AlfredBez zend.exception_ignore_args
 
@NikiC yay, that worked, thanks a lot!
 
11:21 AM
o/
 
cmb
\o
 
o/
 
12:04 PM
\o
 
Has stabbing-over-internet been invented yet?
 
what was the name of that irc quotes website in 90s/early 200s that had the poking into the eye over the internet as #1, nostalgic here :)
oh it still exists! bash.org/?4281
 
Hello! do you know if there is a simple way to check if a certain string is a php type or php native function? like 'int, string, array_shift'...
does php has some built in "type_exists" or "method_exists" like it does with classes, interfaces...?
 
12:20 PM
for functions, there is function_exists(), otherwise, you might have to check for the language tokens (php.net/manual/en/tokens.php)
 
o/
 
I very occasionally post on Reddit. I'm glad stabbing over the internet doesn't exist.
Although I'd give it a week after being invented before there was a 1 upvote = 1 stab thread
Shortly followed by 150,000 people being charged with contributory homicide
 
12:41 PM
I dunno, I regularly end up having to install various Adobe products on people's machines remotely, that's not a million miles away from stabbing people over the internet
ditto many citrix products
 
@NikiC I guess you are right, repeatedly shrinking the type won't work out (though you could have shut the discussion up quickly by providing a concrete example instead of not participating anymore :-D) in particular with more dynamic types (imagine typescript-like conditional types). I do however think that we should have an internal "unspecified" type which gets implicitly defined once the object is assigned to a type (prop/param/retval). Would that be realistic?
If you disagree 1-2 counterexamples where that'd go horribly wrong would be nice :-)
 
Would be handy for extending interfaces implemented by generics.
gist.github.com/marandall/d219166a76f6336efdefc32cd4eb9c26 or could it maybe just do a special case of MyCollection<mixed>?
 
1:04 PM
@MarkR it would effectively be a special case of MyCollection<any>, yes
 
Would be handy.
 
> Did you mean: dev random
@DaveRandom ^ lol searching email
 
thanks @Derick
 
cmb
1:27 PM
Is zend_list_close() supposed to leak entries in EG(regular_list)?
 
leak in what sense?
Do you mean that resource IDs are not reused?
 
cmb
@NikiC the HashTable entries are not freed
^right away; only at end of request
 
@cmb And they don't get deleted when the resource is destroyed?
That is refcount drops to zero
 
cmb
@NikiC no, see bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=79145 (replacing zend_list_close() with zend_list_delete() in php_openssl_pkey_free() does not show increasing memory usage)
Acutally, refcount doesn't drop to zero, due to github.com/php/php-src/blob/php-7.3.14/ext/openssl/…
 
1:43 PM
Duh
Sounds like a simple fix then ;)
And possibly a motivation to add some leak detection for resources...
 
cmb
Well, that has been added as fix for bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=61930. I'm a bit afraid to introduce a UAF there.
 
@cmb I think L3790 is what properly fixed that
 
-1
Q: SQL PHP Insert issue

avT432Cheers, So, I have a "parent table" where I need to insert some stuff. The "parent table" - FILES contains id_file id_cust - foreign key for idcust from table Customers register_date id_object - foreign key for idcust from table Objects Table Customers idcust cust_name address phone Table ...

 
cmb
@NikiC ah, indeed. Thanks! Will run valgrind checks.
 
1:59 PM
Hi all.. Can you advise me regarding my issue?
 
@NikiC how bad is my idea: to define a list of intrinsic in PHP userland (map function name to single assembly code), then inside zend_ast_process replace all intrinsics function calls with one native assembly code somehow (eg by compiling all consecutive intrinsics into one anonymous zend_internal_function) which will be executed in runtime later.
 
:fire:
:-p
 
In computer software, in compiler theory, an intrinsic function (or builtin function) is a function (subroutine) available for use in a given programming language whose implementation is handled specially by the compiler. Typically, it may substitute a sequence of automatically generated instructions for the original function call, similar to an inline function. Unlike an inline function, the compiler has an intimate knowledge of an intrinsic function and can thus better integrate and optimize it for a given situation. Compilers that implement intrinsic functions generally enable them only when...
 
morns
 
A quick question - in my combobox I print the values from table customers - cust_name.
Table customers have idcust and cust_name.
I want to to send the value printed in combobox to SQL database but in a different table - files - where I have a field id_cust which is foreign key for idcust from customers.
How can I do that?
 
2:42 PM
> Junuary
(that's spam by the way, I don't have $14K)
I don't even have $14 :-P
 
You don't have JUNUARY where you are? It's like January, but climate change makes it feel more like june
 
I live in Manchester mate, January and June are largely indistinguishable
 
Come this side of the pennines. We actually had a decent summer
 
this year has been really mild anyway, temp hasn't really dropped <0 more than a couple of times
it's almost as though climate change is actually a thing. funny that
 
@DaveRandom It says you own 2 Bitcoins. Which might be the same thing
 
2:48 PM
That's actually pretty close
 
What is this $ sign? I didn't think variable names could start with a number
 
maybe there's a zwnj in there
 
ah, right
Another one of my favourites, besides nbsp
Have any of you heard of CodeLobster?
 
I have been known to use unicode ellipsis to avoid naming collisions
I am a terrible person
@Derick no, is it any good?
I am JetBrains All The Things
 
I don't know, but they keep emailing me to post a review of it on my site
 
2:55 PM
@Derick you absolutely can: codepad.org/IbBSrAla
 
@Derick Is that where you extract code from a shell, then dip it in butter to eat?
 
<?php

$<200b>123 = "test";
echo $<200b>123;
@ircmaxell That's cheating, like we already mentioned with nbsp and zwnj
 
for 1 you can use lowercase L, it renders identically in a lot of monospace fonts
 
Yup :)
 
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