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1:02 AM
@lisachenko I'm curious, what you're working on, is it for a larger project you want to accomplish, or are you learning it just because you want to learn how to do it?
(that is, learning it for the sake of learning something new)
I know you said you enjoy puzzles like these, but makes me curious if there's an ultimate goal from it
@2dsharp templates, I think. But I suppose it depends. The former code base I worked on used to store HTML in a database because it was generated by a WYSIWYG editor in a CMS, and it allowed for versioning
There were other static HTML pages that were essentially template files.
It's worth noting, the way how HTML was stored in the database destroyed performance. I believe it was 1:1 database transaction per version, and it made loading the admin system for an admin account take roughly 30 seconds, which is unacceptable for a web page. (I didn't know how rewrite it to improve performance, but my reason for mentioning is a word of warning)
 
1:22 AM
INTL Support for accounting format – #78912
 
1:52 AM
A – #78914
 
2:50 AM
I'm not sure if there is a term for that, but is there an, if not elegant, maybe recommended, way of acting differently based on where in a set of number ranges a specific number is? this functionally represents it:
if ($number > 25000) {
} elseif ($number > 15000) {
} elseif ($number > 8000) {
} else {
}
(not that this is particularly cumbersome or ugly, I just have this dim feeling that there's maybe a way in The Programming™ to do that)
 
3:10 AM
@cmb yes
 
 
3 hours later…
5:44 AM
@LeviMorrison Err, sorry, I replied to the wrong message
 
5:56 AM
@beberlei I think so.
Now it's the right one ^^
 
niki I just found the jb email
 
@Tiffany morning! My main target is to finish lisachenko/z-engine library and make it awesome, to provide new features for PHP developers and even allow them to write their own extensions. Beside that it’s new knowledge, experience and fun for me )
 
6:11 AM
aka @lisachenko has strong sadistic tendencies :P
 
you can't really write extensions with ffi, that's just a thing people say ... it's not reasonable, an extension has a different lifecycle to code and most of them require that lifecycle to provide the functionality they do ...
 
Haha )) This was started at PhpRussia conference when I’ve discussed this with you
Best motivating thing for me is when someone tells me that I can’t do that or it’s impossible. Like a red clothes for the bull ;)
 
6:29 AM
well I didn't say impossible, I said unreasonable ...
 
6:53 AM
heyy @JoeWatkins and @lisachenko
hloo
 
What I missing in PHP is more internal hooks: before/after tokenization, AST processing, class loading, property access, etc. This way language will evolve faster, combining energy from C developers and PHP developers to create new stuff.
 
@lisachenko most extensions require access to module globals, how are you going to provide that ?
 
@JoeWatkins but why unreasonable? FFI or similar techniques are used in many languages to develop language extensions. I don’t see any problems with that
 
except in the case of preloaded code, I think you can't reasonably provide that
 
@JoeWatkins Shared memory? To put something into it and copy back on request, like process of copying information from the opcache
 
7:01 AM
if you need an extension today, there are one of a few reasons, FFI only has one of those reasons covered - you want to call some third party routine ... all other cases, such as performance, cannot be covered by FFI, FFI performs terribly ...
not because it's a bad implementation even, but because it's ffi ...
 
This is why I want to use slow FFI only once to craft native assembly code/effective C handler and run it during runtime
 
helo
 
In that way FFI can be bypassed at all, leaving me pure PHP core with raw memory
o/
 
sir i have one issue can anyone help me please
 
you're confusing me, writing extensions in PHP and bypassing PHP are mutually exclusive
 
7:05 AM
please
 
Actually, bypassing FFI as much as possible, using it to install required handlers and provide binging to the memory
Not bypassing PHP itself :)
 
but you can't actually bypass it, you're still stuck with performance problems ... there's no way around that ...
 
helo @JoeWatkins
 
yes, I know, this is limitation, but still it’s possibility to do interesting things with engine. For example, operator overloading for matrix is very wanted feature for all developers
 
is it though ? there has been extensions that do that forever, and they are not being used
 
7:10 AM
C extensions are not popular...
 
that's another thing people say, and yet, almost all installations that I come across in a professional environment have several extensions enabled all the time
xdebug, memcached, redis, apcu, newrelick, and the list goes on ...
 
Because you need to build them, they are not available by default, thus no option to install it via composer and use it
 
if people really want to use something, they will install an extension ...
 
Nope ))
 
but they actually do, it's a fact
 
7:11 AM
Only valid extension in your list is xdebug )
Memcached, Redis are just binding to the protocols
APCu can be replaced with FFI and memory` management in 7.4
 
we're not ever going to agree about this, I don't dispute that hacking the engine is fun, and writing extensions is fun, but FFI is never going to be the way to do either, and nothing will change my mind
@lisachenko certainly not
 
helo @lisachenko can you provide me a little help please i am student
 
I'm big fan or all your extensions, they are cool. But I have a vision that PHP extensions can die at some time (not zend_extensions like Xdebug, Opcache..)
 
please don't keep pinging random people, ask your question @RamSharma
@lisachenko check yourself for malaria, it sounds like you might be hallucinating ...
it can't happen
 
ok i leave sorry
 
7:16 AM
@JoeWatkins )) Ok, let's agree to disagree. You have helped me and taught a lot and I still need you help to continue my project
 
i made a multistep form exam system , and now i want to calculate time spend on every question, how can i do that
 
I'll happily give it ... I do wish you would listen to me about your aims and not just technical details ... you've only seen some of the extensions I've written, I'm probably the most prolific writer of extensions in the whole world, I know what I'm talking about ...
 
@RamSharma You should start a PHP session and then collect all timestamps on each response. then you will get an array with all timings at the end.
 
@lisachenko i have multistep form with next or previous options , it can be submitted only once
 
@JoeWatkins This is why your answers about technical details are valuable for me. And I'm happy that there are people in this chat who can show me the right way to do something. But please do not say that what I'm doing is unreasonable, because you should know that it can't stop me from digging the engine and learning it and at some point I'll found working solution... )
@RamSharma yes, it's ok. On each answer, mark it in the session as answered. then you can check if this person have submitted this answer before or not.
 
7:23 AM
@lisachenko thank you so much i will try
 
@lisachenko if I honestly think it's unreasonable, I'm going to say so ... to do anything else would be an insult to you and dishonest ...
 
@JoeWatkins ah, don't worry about that )))
You are allowed to say me anything your want to say )
 
I was a big fan of doing "the impossible" ... the fact is that some things are fixed in zend, not likely to ever change ... we can work around anything, we're programmers ... but workarounds of the kind of complexity we're talking about here, that incur the kind of performance penalties that are unavoidable with an FFI interface, are not workarounds at all ... they tend to create many many more problems than they actually solve ...
 
Returning back to the technical details: what is correct way to copy given zval to another one. Say i have a zval with object or string somewhere and function provides me a pointer to return value. I'm just copy data to this pointer, but I'm sure that this way is incorrect, there should be some tricks with gc, right?
 
cmb
7:43 AM
@JoeWatkins, thanks. strict is now unmaintained.
@lisachenko, see ZVAL_COPY and friends (php-lxr.adamharvey.name/source/xref/PHP-7.3/Zend/…)
 
@cmb thank you ) Time for diving into macros hell
Interesting observation: when casting object to array, then cast_object handler is not used if present. Is it by intentional or missing part in the engine?
 
8:00 AM
acquiesce to accept, comply, or submit tacitly or passively —often used with in or to
 
8:55 AM
 
cmb
\o
 
9:29 AM
o͞/
 
9:45 AM
morning o/
 
10:27 AM
\o
 
@salathe is that a spear?
 
In EVE Online we use o7 as a hello / goodbye, it's meant to be a little salute
 
@Gordon it's whatever you want it to be :)
 
10:48 AM
@Gordon
https://i.imgur.com/Wqb9ldo.jpg
^If Rammstein did code.
3
 
@Tpojka I am not much of a Rammstein fan, but I chuckled
 
^^ Catching frisbee?
 
@Gordon to bad it's not a pitchfork ^^
 
@Naruto it's whatever you want it to be :)
 
Made my first change to PHP docs \o/
I added the error check. Can't paste the code snippet because the enter button on phone doesn't do new line in chat -_-
 
11:16 AM
@Tiffany congratulation!
 
cmb
+1
 
\o/
 
@Tiffany \o/
 
11:40 AM
Hi here, is there no room11 LXR (opengrok) anymore?
 
doesn't look that way, there's an updated link in the 2nd pinned message over there ------->
 
it still doesn't have 7.4 though :-(
/me wonders what happened to the r11 one
 
@salathe Oh, that looks like the LXR we had before the room11's
It's been more down than online anyways
Not sure how active aharvey is nowadays
 
12:02 PM
Can't say I notice him around much
 
boo, I see
 
12:45 PM
🤔 Any reason why a yield \Amp\call(callable) would never execute the callable?
Assuming it's safe to nest calls to \Amp\call
 
is there a recommendation on what I should set include_path in the php.ini to? can I safely set it to the directory that I keep coding projects?
 
.
 
Nevermind, it was swallowing an undefined method error from inside the callable
 
it will be a miracle of the universe if I ever use require or require_once correctly the first time I try
 
 
1 hour later…
1:57 PM
PHP 7.3.12-1 – #78915
 
@cmb thanks for the hint
 
cmb
yw
 
Using sourcegraph & github for now...
 
Erf mbstring has such bizarre code flows at moment >_> And there a bunch of false returns which don't throw warnings but do seems to be value errors, that's going to be fun having a dive into it
 
2:27 PM
php-fpm 7.4.0 don't send mail via mail() – #78916
 
Wes
2:38 PM
@NikiC do you think we'll ever support intersection types? i am not gonna lie, i have just one use case :B
and it's also pretty hard to explain
 
3:02 PM
I think so.
 
@Wes At least I don't see a strong reason not to have them
And with union types implemented, adding intersection types is technically much, much simpler
 
Wes
my use case is that i have a set of classes that are all extended with another class each
except i am not actually extending them, it's a marker interface
so i would like to do on usage site BaseClass & MarkerInterface instead
rather than interface Foo extends BaseClass, MarkerInterface{ /* empty */ }
so not a very solid argument
 
@kelunik http-client seems to be working with the implementations I currently have chat.stackoverflow.com/rooms/100286/jeeves-playground
\o/
 
Out of curiosity, given how far php has come with types, is there any plans for method overloading?
 
3:17 PM
on a dynamically typed language that's hard. if you have one version for bool and another for float but you actually pass an int, which one gets used? why?
 
wouldn't `strict_types` resolve that?
why? Here, all parameter must have a type. so if a method can accept a string or array, you have to default the both to `null` then process base on the one that is `!null` (It gets long).
 
s/dynamically/weakly/
 
Wes
also it's a mess. go read about the complexity that involves in the languages that support it
 
the why was about which one would you pick, not the usefulness of overloading :)
but yeah, on files with strict_types I guess you could always decide. But there is the other side of it..
 
@pmmaga oh
 
3:30 PM
Jul 9 '18 at 19:13, by Andrea
declare(i_opened_pandoras_box_by_suggesting_declare_strict_types="please don't suggest any new declare()s im really sorry")
 
I just wish there was a cleaner way to deal with dynamic arguments without removing the type.
 
@Tiffany strict types was a mistake
 
thought about linking that one, but I like the one I linked, it's funnier
 
@NikiC I'm curious, what RFCs are on your list of things to tackle before PHP 8 freeze?
 
@bwoebi maybe for core implementation, honestly I find strict_types very useful.
 
3:45 PM
@Ghostff I consider strict types sort of useful where no external inputs are involved (i.e. in particular within pure functions)
 
3:57 PM
Just cant wrap my head around why people still use IE and why MS is not removing it.
 
@Tiffany Yea I wouldn't do that, fetching every bit of html from the db doesn't make much sense to me. Perhaps I should let the UI layer do it on the front end as much as it can and fetch only what it needs. After all the front end is the representation of the data.
 
@2dsharp indeed. could always just have the information stored in a database, and pull the text as needed, surrounded by HTML... maybe, I dunno. The thing with our CMS was it was used by 30-40 people, most of who were not tech-savvy in the slightest, but needed to be able to style their content with bold, headers, and the like
I think if it was written to do a single transaction instead of multiple for every request, it wouldn't have been so bad. Or if it was async, but it was a code base that was written in early 2000 I believe
 
4:55 PM
@cmb Reproduced the ZVAL_COPY macro in my library and strange errors disappeared :) Thank you!
 
5:10 PM
Hi! Could you please recommend me a Php library, using I could open, edit and save .env files?
 
5:35 PM
there we go heap.space
7
I don't have enough time now to set it up proper for other branches/projects etc as well, but at least you have 7.4 on this lxr
will get to add more later tonight/tomorrow
 
cmb
5:57 PM
Cool. Thanks!
@lisachenko, nice! However, as it is now, opcache.preload shouldn't be used on Windows. :(
 
6:15 PM
@Ekin \o/
 
6:30 PM
@Wes It's actually a solid argument.
Imagine that third party code was Countable and Traversable, but not CountableTraversable, which your algorithm requires. You cannot make that third party code implement a new interface.
 
@PeeHaa \o/
 
Wes
7:19 PM
@LeviMorrison exactly
that and the obvious waste that is an empty interface
 
Given whole numbers a in [a1, a2], b in [b1, b2] and fixed M, for which a, b is M - a*b > 0 minimal.
Does this have any (simple) solution?
 
Wes
i've been trying to id myself on my bank's app for 3 hours. i had to debug their webcam detection
of all the methods they gave me to identify myself none worked
nothing ever works
only thing i haven't tried is the app on ios, because the android one doesn't work
 
7:39 PM
Ok so I messed up with git and not sure how to fix my mistakes
staging branch got updated
changes merged to master
problem found -> pull request commit reversed
problems fixed on staging branch
staging branched pulled into master
The problem: Changes that were reversed in the master branch did not get re-applied in the latest pull request
so some of the files in master are stale and the ones that were fixed cause a conflict which was resolved by just applying all changes from staging
what do?
essentially I want master to be like staging - pretty much the same
do I just revert the revert?
 
@NikiC is this about finding a and b where the fn>0? is M a positive int?
been looking at it for a while and I'm not sure what I'm looking at, besides the fact that it kiiinda looks like a non-simple absolute minima problem :-P
 
@Ekin yes
Basically just want to find the largest a*b that is still below the threshold
M can be assumed to be a power of two, if that helps
 
@Ekin What dis?
 
7:54 PM
@PeterTheLobster if that will give your expected result, why not?
 
Yeah I think revert the revert and then resolve conflicts using the origin version (mine) because those are the updated versions since then
 
@StatikStasis PHP 7.4 lxr
temporary
 
@NikiC then M > ab is your range... I think? say your M is 2^3 then ab can't be bigger than or equal to 8, giving you the range of a*b, relative to M... is that stupid to think? :-P
for some reason this is very confusing yet it feels like it shouldn't be...
@StatikStasis yeah I deployed opengrok to a lingering server/domain I had
I think I'll keep it so not temporary, since PeeHaa already uses the api for the async-bot plugin
 
lol
where's he using it at?
 
8:10 PM
interesting
how does he produce this stuff so quickly X_X
I'm still fudging about writing a scraper, but I'm making slow, steady progress
 
I dunno, all I hear is a constant stream of tap-tap-tap * return * tap-tap-tap :-P
 
lol
I have to debug my xpath query at some point today, or see if there's another way I can load info from DOMDocument
but I'm overdue for mopping my floors
 
8:29 PM
@Ekin I don't think I understood that
 
That's it, I'm getting old. There's a bump forming on my face. -_-
 
@NikiC I'm saying, consider the function as M > a * b, the largest a*b would be M - 1 considering they are integers, no? so it depends on M in that regard
 
@Ekin Right, but there will not always be a, b such that a*b = M-1
 
there will be, if you do 2^n > 1 * (2^n -1) if I'm not confusing myself :P
@NikiC if you ever figure it out, I'd like to know :D
 
8:47 PM
If a and b are any natural number, sure
The primary issue here is that both a and b are constrained to some range
Say M=16 and a in [0, 2] and b in [9, 10] then the answer is a=1, b=10
 
@NikiC are the ranges always positive natural numbers?
 
right
the annoying bit is that these ranges are not given
so they can be anywhere in 0 to INF, as it says whole numbers
 
Yeah I'm thinking
Isn't something like do: take i max value from one interval and do floor(M/i) and see if that number (or smaller) is in the other interval?
And if not repeat the process with max-1 from the interval where i is taken
 
9:37 PM
addiotonal paramters is singular – #78917
 
I don't get that bug report at all
 
me neither
boy, opengrok-indexer sure takes its sweet time
 
@Girgias Just close it as stupid
 
@PeeHaa what default message do I need to use?
Not a bug?
But he marked it as a request
I'm really not good at bug triaging
 
Just use the not enough info one
fdbk -> not enough info
 
9:45 PM
is there something along the lines of 'be more clear next time'? :P
 
@Ekin There are
> Not enough information was provided for us to be able
to handle this bug. Please re-read the instructions at
http://bugs.php.net/how-to-report.php

If you can provide more information, feel free to add it
to this bug and change the status back to "Open".

Thank you for your interest in PHP.
And
> Thank you for this bug report. To properly diagnose the problem, we
need a short but complete example script to be able to reproduce
this bug ourselves.

A proper reproducing script starts with <?php and ends with ?>,
is max. 10-20 lines long and does not require any external
resources such as databases, etc. If the script requires a
database to demonstrate the issue, please make sure it creates
all necessary tables, stored procedures etc.

Please avoid embedding huge scripts into the report.
For the rest you can always say manually don't be stupid
 
yeah those sound apt indeed
 
Wut, I used the quick fix thing in dev and it didn't post a message
Welp
Even our own bug tracker is bugged :)))
 
Yeah it's on my list to fix
Sorry
Been broken for a long time
 
@Wes did you ever make some sorta logo for r11? if so, want
 
Wes
9:48 PM
yes but i have never finished it
 
Okay what
I can't even add a message now
wut
 
Wes
you were all unenthusiastic about it. it broke my heart
:B
 
aww, I am very much enthusiastic now :D
 
@Girgias Want me to work my magic? :P
 
@PeeHaa I think I need you to
 
Wes
9:49 PM
@Ekin i need to finish it though, it's just a sketchhchchskch
 
Between sometimes sending twice the same message and now not even being able to send it, this bug tracker doesn't like me :(
 
Wes
 
I'll put on jeeves somewhere in the lxr page for now, but if you ever finish something gimme, want to add it on the heap space thingy
 
lol @Girgias refresh the page :D
 
oh, ha :D
 
9:50 PM
@PeeHaa I did
And it still doesn't do anything :(
 
Wes
i dislike it a lot but the idea is cute
 
>
[2019-12-05 21:45 UTC] girgias@php.net
-Status: Open +Status: Feedback
[2019-12-05 21:45 UTC] girgias@php.net

Not enough information was provided for us to be able
to handle this bug. Please re-read the instructions at
http://bugs.php.net/how-to-report.php

If you can provide more information, feel free to add it
to this bug and change the status back to "Open".

Thank you for your interest in PHP.


[2019-12-05 21:48 UTC] girgias@php.net

Not enough information was provided for us to be able
I think the message is clear ;-)
 
lol, nice
 
>--->
 
What happened for my info?
I don't know about an issue like that, but if there is one I want it :)
 
9:51 PM
It still does not show up on my side
 
lol
oh wait
You are on the correct tab are you?
 
Yes
Oh no
 
;-)
 
How did it change the tab to SVN ????
wat
 
Been there. Done that
 
9:52 PM
Okay whatever, can you delete the second one? xD
 
Nope
 
Well time to ping cmb then
 
It has to stay there now as a reminder to you :P
 
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
 
:D
 
10:00 PM
@NikiC if only this were not restricted to whole numbers. But I don't think there is a (simple?) solution for that...
 
Wes
@FélixGagnon-Grenier i got the strips today. unsurprisingly i am very much in ketosis
means i wasted 15€ :B but i can experiment with food
 
I keep getting ctags: Warning: ignoring null tag in /ext/standard/tests/general_functions/bug49692.ini
for whatever tag I try to index
I guess it cannot parse L4 properly here github.com/php/php-src/blob/…
I don't get it... sometimes it reports L3 and sometimes 4...
 
cmb
@Girgias, I've deleted your duplicate comment.
 
Thanks @cmb <3
Sorry for always asking you to do it :(
 
cmb
np :)
I think the OP wants to be able to pass an array as $additional_parameters, not a string.
don't know what's up with that "wordpress space bug"
 
10:17 PM
Probably wordpress being wordpress passing stuff directly into the arg unescaped
 
@Wes that's great, gj! I was wondering if you'd received them :) you can now experiment and see how much pasta you can eat and still stay on ketosis. It's not necessary to have enormous amounts of ketones, traces is fine!
*in
 
args*
 
Wes
i want to experiment with fruit. like, it doesn't feel healthy not eating any
also i want to double check that nuts and seeds are ok. they should be
 
Wes
10:48 PM
@PeeHaa did you get AOE2 or 3?
 
11:00 PM
@Wes Nope
Have been writing some code
:)
 
Wes
but but..... cries
 
Sorry
 
Wes
i've been using firefox as main browser for some days now
i can believe i am still using it
last time that happened firefox was firefox 3
 
I have been back on the firefox train for years by now :P
 
Wes
not many
before quantum firefox was trash
 
11:03 PM
It was
It just reached the point where it was less trash again over chrome
 
Wes
firefox still doesn't feel as responsive as chrome
but it's usable now at least
in the past it hanged all the time
 
Lately it's started to whitescreen this chat again
While I have plenty of memory that it should not happen
 
Wes
i used to have firefox (not responding) just right after i executed it
i noticed in some app i wrote that at some point it stops executing setTimeout functions
 
hehe
 
Wes
i have no idea why it does that, the console says nothing
that happens after several hours and after thousands of setTimeout
 
11:28 PM
hi
can someone help me?i appreciate it. stackoverflow.com/questions/59204264/…
 
Wes
11:59 PM
> What Is a Reserve Price on an eBay Auction? According to eBay, A reserve price is a hidden minimum price—essentially, the lowest price you're willing to accept for your item. If the listing ends without any bids that meet the reserve price, you aren't required to sell the item.
 

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