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00:00
Oh, they added config.m4 files for pdo_sqlsrv and sqlsrv extensions, that is interesting!
In general I think pdo_dblib should probably have the same fate as being moved out in recommendation of sqlsrv/pdo_sqlsrv tbh
@Kalle imho C++ is not a problem in and of itself, at least in the context of things that directly wrap core win32 APIs. It does present a slight issue in terms of maintainability, however it's not like C++ is a niche language, and especially windows-y people (the ones who might have a vague interest in maintaining it at all) are more likely to be familiar with it
@Danack check the module_entry struct lol
oh actually @Kalle, only tangentially related but you also may find this thing I wrote interesting secure.php.net/manual/en/function.escapeshellarg.php#123718
pdo_dblib, pdo_sybase, pdo_mssql even
00:09
basically, after 20+ years of fucking about with cmd and ~30 years of windows, I finally understand how escaping works, and it seems like I am the first PHPish person ever to achieve that :-P
and it's not even like it's that complicated...
Let me have read ^^
I am toying with the idea of a proposal that exec() and co should accept an array of strings as the $command arg, which are treated as raw values and transparently escaped using the correct rules for the context, not sure I have energy to fight the case for it in the RFC process though
I don't think it sounds like a hard case to win support for, it seems quite a good way to go about it even tbh
It is not a controversial one like removing short_open_tags for example xD
what I'm worried about is that it's still not a water-tight solution, specifically this wouldn't work:
shell_exec(['cmd', '/c', 'bad string']);
The comment is very good btw, you should think about incorporating it into phpdoc if you don't mind a bit of xml and svn ^^
00:19
I will at some point, I'm going to write a userland lib first though to make sure I 100% understand it :-P
also I feel like it will cause the opposite problem, in that people who are actually using shell functionality will not necessarily understand why shell_exec(['ping', 'foo', '>', 'ping.txt']) doesn't do what they expect
...hence I will write a userland lib so I can figure out what the ideal userland API looks like
typo feedback welcome. People calling me a hypocrite and trying to start a clique, not so much.
ftr the vast majority of the credit belongs to the author of this article that I stumbled upon a few weeks ago
btw @DaveRandom I sent a dm via twitter a week or so back. would be glad for any advice on it you can give.
ugh will look now, I haven't touched twitter for ages and my phone has stopped notifying me of DMs for some reason (@Ekin fell foul of that a couple of months ago as well)
fyi, the best way to reach me privately is whatsapp, my number hasn't changed for 15+ years
or just sms if you don't do whatsapp
@Danack I'll have a read just now before going to bed
00:30
I remember hearing a story about one open source project where someone contacted the employer of someone who had suggested a change to the project, to say "this person is a trouble-maker". Anyone have a clue to which project it might have been?
@Danack not an answer to any of the questions but relevant: I had a very similar-sounding pain issue on and off for a couple of years, when I started cycling regularly again it basically disappeared almost over night. I still get it very occasionally, generally when I am sleep deprived and have the associated reduced muscular control.
I can't say I have any direct or indirect experience of the smoke-related things though, I know a few people who have undesirable psychological "side" effects but physical pain is a new one on me
although that said, I wouldn't be surprised if it caused a reduction in muscular control very similar to tiredness (although I don't actually know)
Annoyingly I seem to have a quite negative feedback loop with exercise.....do more, end up sore for days, so stop doing the exercise........anyway I've got an appointment with doctor booked, so will see what they say.
I'm probably not a great model for that either, I typically do a 40-60k cycle once or twice a week and then just accept that I will suffer a bit for 2 days after :-P
@DaveRandom this might not make sense - but it's actually the other way round.....that the muscles are coming back under conscious control after being held tight subconsciously for years.
@Danack it is VERY good, thank you for putting the effort into creating this. It was a great read and I like how casually it lays itself out, well put sir. You have my +1 :)
00:38
I think I know what you mean and maybe we have different way of describing it... like it's pain caused by relaxation rather than tension
the last really bad experience I had was after I went to one of those trampoline park places, I literally couldnt get out of bed for 2 days afterwards
things I will never ever contemplate going on: trampoline park
yeh I'm not going to argue with that
> I've written some suggestions on people could have more productive conversations
do you mean "I've written some suggestions on how people could have more productive conversations"?
@Tiffany yep, thanks fixed.
@Danack have you ever experienced that effect from booze? Or opiates, but recreational opiates doesn't seem like your style :-P
just thinking about other muscle relaxants
00:51
@DaveRandom no........but it's not like relaxing as you described. It's more like having a dead arm 'wake up' and suddenly realising that all of the tendons from my left hand to my neck, and then back down from my neck to various places around my chest, are incredibly tight, and that I need to stretch them out, and focus on getting the attached muscles to relax.
The joints around the right side of my hip and hip socket occasionally get really sore. I've been ignoring it for quite a while because I don't want to admit something's wrong. But, yoga's really showing that there is a problem because there are some poses I'm physically incapable of doing on that side of my body, but the left side has no problem. It's frustrating in that I'm normally pretty flexible and have no issue with most yoga poses.
i.e. really like the pain has always been there, but that I've tuned it out...
I'm also really good at solving my yoga instructor's computer problems
@Danack have you taken gabapentin?
@Tiffany how's the job hunting going?
I'm back on medication, so I have motivation now to actually do stuff about it, I spent the past week and a half basically feeling like a potato.
Once I get the final draft of my resume, I'm going to start updating everything in accordance of it, go to some job workshops at the employment place in town, and actively seek employment. There are a couple remote jobs I plan to apply for.
00:58
@Tiffany no....and probably wouldn't after reading the side effects and withdrawal symptoms. I'm going to ask my doctor for another course of Amitriptyline as a painkiller (which is somewhat interestingly normally prescribed as an anti-depressant ) - which I stopped taking before due to becoming tolerant of it.
I gave the writer like a gigantic list of stuff, I'm not sure if any of it's resume-worthy or how to give it a positive spin, but that's their job.
@Tiffany sounds good, and I still think you'll get a lot of useful feedback (if you ask for it) from applying to jobs to improve you resume yourself once you start applying. So the sooner the better....
anyway - nn. I'm going to try getting to bed before 3am for a change...
@Danack I gisted my response and sent you a link on twitter, also shared the first draft
though
go to bed
@Danack essentially just typos and grammar gist.github.com/DaveRandom/078b6c522057f446ce260d0b38160d33/…
tonally it's a little familiar for my liking, but that's highly subjective
I do think it's best to try and maintain proper sentence structure/avoid colloquialisms for a forum like internals though, if only to make life easier for non-native english speakers
like I understand exactly what you are saying but it reads like spoken words rather than prose
am I being helpful? :-P (don't answer that)
that said, @Wes once told me I write the most difficult english of anyone in the room, so what do I know :-P
01:15
lol
01:31
@DaveRandom in Windows 10, with dual monitors, is there a way to two windows go side-by-side on one monitor with the "drag to side" feature? With dual monitors, I can't drag one window to the side of the dual monitor because it doesn't recognize it as the "end" ... do you know of a way around this?
I want to look at two windows on my primary monitor, side-by-side, but not sure how to go about it. Though, now after typing all of this, I think I can figure out some googleable terms.
select the one you want on the left, and windows + left arrow
guess what you do for the one you want on the right :-P
afaik you can't do mouse snap on a desktop monitor boundary though
yeah, figured out the right google incantation and found an article, was about to quote that
which is annoying
01:33
yeah
ugh, I need to figure out why my windows key is disabled
I didn't have to google it, but only because I googled it about a week ago :-P
wat
is it not just broken?
I dunno. Possibly some game or gaming service disabled it, or I disabled it because it annoyed me and forgot I disabled it
I could not live without a working win key, it would drive me insane within minutes
ooor it's something to do with my keyboard
I couldn't live without it at work, I was constantly doing windows - L when I left my desk
I reckon I do at least one of win+E, win+R, win+L at least once in any given 5 minute period
also I only ever launch programs by pressing win and typing a bit of the name in w10
01:38
@DaveRandom that's how I did it at work, at home... I pin nearly everything to taskbar :S
however, this is interesting
...I don't have a flag option for off/on for Game Mode
this says it's on by default
@Tiffany sure, me too, but only really so they are in the right order when I need to do something with the mouse (e.g. window switching is looooong on kbd)
I think I just need to download drivers for my keyboard
I have never owned a keyboard that needs drivers for the standard keys to work...
most of the stuff works by default, and I don't really use the programmable keys on the far left... though I probably should find some use for them
Also, I bought that keyboard on sale, but so worth it
never looked into how windows key interrupts work before, it's predictably insane
@Tiffany do window.addEventListener('keydown', function(e) { console.log(e); }); in a chrome dev console, focus on the page an press the windows key. Do you get anything logged?
(I do)
01:54
yup, it was drivers related, windows key works now after installing logitech junk
ugh ffs that's bullshit
I'm fine with drivers for function keys and whatnot but the basic layout should just work :-/
 
2 hours later…
03:47
nn
 
2 hours later…
05:34
morning
Wes
Wes
\o
06:13
I'm getting bored of travis having out of date builds of php, what other ci is there that actually keeps their builds up to date ?
06:43
@Danack oooooh. That explains it, thanks! Should definitely give at least a notice imo.
Wes
Wes
06:54
@JoeWatkins afaik the only other that is free for OSS projects is appveyor... but i've never used it
07:05
After almost twenty years, PHP 8 waves goodbye to TSRMLS_JUNK, So long, and thanks for all the confusion, broken builds, and resulting hair pulling: https://github.com/php/php-src/commit/bd73607b9e4811e7caa9d2ff4d227626ffd35dab #php
2
Wes
Wes
\o/ I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT IS BUT YESSSSS
I wanted rid of TSRMLS_CC so badly, I removed it twice ...
Ah yes, but the real bad boy was TSRMLS_FETCH() :D
07:20
it was all bad, some of it is still bad ... what we need now is some new ini macros
most extensions don't need to use tsrm, they can use tls directly, but the ini macros assume tsrm is being used, so if you have ini, you have to use tsrm ...
is there any drupal dev
07:38
@JoeWatkins we'll get there, at least things are moving now, even if slowly
at the point where the zts build has no overhead - which is coming in jit - I'm probably going to propose parallel for inclusion in php-src ...
dmitry improved it, it's better, but more is possible, I'm just waiting for him to do it ... still the overhead now is not really terrible, if you can overcome it with multiple threads it's even less terrible, but it should be possible to have no overhead at all ...
07:55
Why am I still awake
Watch me still be awake when my alarm goes off in three hours...
I'm attributing it to restarting my ADHD medication, my body readapting to it, and I'm not exhausting myself during the day so that I will be drowsy at night. I'm going to have to fix this somehow.
And it's always this time of morning that I'm super interested in programming, but I'm betting any code I write would have to be scrapped or heavily refactored.
bower an attractive dwelling or retreat
Forcing myself to sleep, setting alarm for five hours from now, must break this cycle.
08:37
git mernings
08:48
@Kalle Back in the day (PHP 4 times and early PHP 5 times), I did a lot of TSRMLS_FETCH|DC|CC fixes. Because back then I (also) used Windows.
I know the pain, I did the same in the late 5.x releases after I joined, it was terrible :(
The real pain was fixing DSP (were they called that?) files before we had the config.w32 tooling.
Ah yes the DSP/DSW build scripts for Visual Studio
Those, yes.
I think I removed the last of them a few years back
08:53
Good day!
I want to start voting tomorrow. Do you have any "last minute" suggestions?
https://wiki.php.net/rfc/deprecate_curly_braces_array_access
I still think the rationale for removing it is low, even more so as we cannot re-use that syntax again so what is the point in breaking code just to do it
Should we remove array_merge() in favor of $array1 + $array2 because its also a way to achieve the same result?
(I'm not saying that because I'm against the RFC, just to clarify)
Aside: array_merge() and + on arrays don't always achieve the same result: 3v4l.org/e79nG
I know, but it was the conceptually thinking
09:13
@AllenJB php.net/manual/en/language.operators.array.php Also did use it wrong multiple times :/ :D
I think that actually we can. But not in nearest releases. Maybee in 8.3 or later.
Personally, I think about window access (like slices in Go).
09:28
@rjhdby Maybe I'm just reading it wrongly your "reasons" section is particularly lacklustre. It's like you wanted to get to 6 points but really, really struggled.
this talk of reusing it is pretty crazy
@salathe Maybe it is good to separate "arguments for deprecate/remove" and "arguments why it is almost safe to deprecate/remove"
it's probably damaging the chances of it passing, talking about clarifying makes sense, reducing confusion ... but then to say that you plan to increase confusion in the future ruins the argument
CURLOPT_SSLCERTTYPE support P12(pfx) certificate – #77792
09:45
@JoeWatkins "Not on my shift"? :) I think that in far, far future it will be possible, why not? But this is only potential opportunity, not call to action.
well you keep repeating that, but it's already been pointed out that we can't realistically reuse syntax for something else, I think there's no precedent for that ...
in other words, it is not actually a potential opportunity, it only weakens the argument that we should remove the support for the syntax today ...
imagine if someone proposed reusing the php4 style constructors as static {} (a la java) class scope ctors ... you would surely be against that if you were thinking straight ... it's the same thing ... reusing syntax that used to do one thing, to do something (even if related) is not a good idea, clearly not a good idea ...
@JoeWatkins Okay, I understand you. I do not fully agree, but I respect your opinion.
10:18
there is an English word which contains "water" as part of it and means "adding your logo (with low opacity) in the background of another photo". Anyone knows what's that word?
watermark?
oh thx .. yes that's what I was looking for
10:39
I think that you do not understand "reusing" argument because I'm cant clear describe that I'm mean. I will try one more time :)
I mean not reusing one-to-one, but other features with curly braces syntax (lambdas for example) that in some cases may provide ambiguity on parsing phase or(!!!) for human understanding.
Lets imagine. "$a = {'first', 'second'};" - this is incorrect creating of array or, I don't know, "struct" definition? I know that it is incorrect syntax for now, but if we keep curly braces syntax for arrays then it can confusing programmer.
10:57
Anyone got any experience with FOSRestBundle with SF4, I can't get a dang 403 or 401 when I'm logged out, it just redirects my api endpoint to a login page.
Wondering if I have to setup any custom listeners, or I'm just missing osmething in config.
 
2 hours later…
12:57
@DaveRandom Thanks. I've spent years working on getting my emails to do that.
@rjhdby a last minute suggestion would be to not send the RFC like that. There's just not enough justification or explanation of why it's a good idea in the RFC, which is going to lead to drama in the discussion. But it's a free world...
hey, @LeviMorrison, how did that enum RFC end?
@Danack Great to see the etiquette hit internals, well done
We ought to place a betting pool on how long it will be until PMJ shows up and tries to make me feel bad about wanting people to have more productive conversations.
Hi guys!
Wes
Wes
13:12
what's that rap song's name....
i got 99 problems and short open tags is the only i care of
of all the php problems......... short open tags.........
Baby steps @Wes, Girgias is a new one, got to start somewhere
While I'm somewhat sad to see it go (nostalgia I guess), I do understand the rationale for perhaps letting it go
Wes
Wes
but is it even a problem
i use it. i don't want to use twig and similar stuff
xml is not even a thing anymore
even the w3c pretends xml never happened :B
Well <? is an illegal tag in the SGML spec, because a PI tag (Processor Instruction) requires a label.

It's not a big problem I agree, and I'm personally split on what camp I would go for if it goes to a vote. (I feel the same with the string/array {} syntax deprecation, its not a problem at all)
Wes
Wes
we can remove endif; endforeach; etc
no real gain in that one either, but annoying wordpress is fun :B
@Wes tell our clients. Their whole data communication process relies on xml
Wes
Wes
13:26
on xml with embedded php?
that's savage
:D
No, luckily not :D but xml is still heavily used. So there might be enough projects with xml with embedded php
Wes
Wes
13:51
well, they can disable short open tags, or they just don't use them
Why do we allow <? without whitespace after it?
were people really swearing in the puts thread ?
Wes
Wes
dunno, i always write it with a whitespace after it. <?if is horrid
@JoeWatkins yes; but at most the one who had the idea as far as I remember. But some emails from internals weren't this nice neither.
I remember sara granting permission to use a php version of the idea, and I remember asking where to send a pull request ... I think the reaction to those things was totally over the top ...
I also gave the guy a patch the next day because I felt sorry for him, and wanted the conversation to change direction ...
I'm not sure it's the best example of a derailed conversation, there are many many better examples from the past where things really are derailed by emotion and whatever ... that was just a newbie who refused to listen afaict ...
as most do ...
> PHP internals could do with a better process for giving negative
feedback an idea without someone having to go through the whole RFC
process.
14:00
@JoeWatkins It does seem like a good example for a case where the right expectations have not been set up
this is really confusing, isn't that what internals discussions are for ?
@Danack That's why discussion is needed, isn't it? :)
I've seen it quite often on the bug tracker that bugs get suspended as "needs and RFC", while in reality they should just be "won't fix" as "very unlikely we'll do this". There's no point in wasting people's time pursing things that are unlikely to happen just to avoid saying "no".
the problem is that just one internal contributor is saying no, you don't speak for everyone else, maybe they like the idea ;.)
I've actually done that myself, used needs rfc ... it's just the case that ^^ this ... ino one really has the authority to say no, and by directing someone to an rfc, you're really saying "discuss it with the rest of internals" ...
14:02
I think what @Danack means is that you can probably get an ovewhelming no for an idea without having to write the RFC.
Tall people issues: my boyfriend was scheduled for an MRI this morning; he's too tall for the machine.
... how can you be too tall for an MRI machine?
> What is this? An MRI machine for ants?
there are long and short bore mri machines ...
@NikiC he's 6'6"
198cm
His legs from the knee down hung out from the machine, lol
@rjhdby No. Any RFC where there needs to be a discussion is very unlikely to pass. They really need to be written so that i) the reason why the RFC is needed is obvious to everyone reading it ii) the reason why this RFC is the right solution to the problem is clear to everyone.
@Danack kind of funny when RFC is "request for comments" ...
Not "read my finished proposal"
@JoeWatkins it's been deleted from the internals machine. Someone pulled the OPs leg with "your idea is bad and you should feel bad" after they hadn't taken the negative feedback. They responded with f-bomb, not totally unreasonably.
@Tiffany think of it as more of "request for objections".....
15 hours ago, by Danack
@ircmaxell (or anyone) any idea if increment operators on boolean types was deliberately chosen to not give a strict error, or is it an oversight?
as 3v4l.org/bINMF seems horrific.
14:20
> Any RFC where there needs to be a discussion is very unlikely to pass.
you're loosing me here ...
@Danack no idea
@JoeWatkins if you look at the RFCs that pass, the vast majority of them have very little discussion, because the RFC answered everything. If you look at, say Yasuo's RFCs, each of them raises a large amount of discussion, and most of them get shot down, because the RFC raised lots of questions to be discussed.
putting known problem cases aside like Y ... discussion shaped scalar type hints, typed properties, and a bunch of others besides, I've had my mind changed during discussion several times ...
what you said is strange
@JoeWatkins did those take two RFCs to pass? I know typed properties did, but not sure about scalar type hints
@Danack wait a minute. I writen this rfc after positive feedback about suggestion for remove "alternate access syntax" there in chat. By you words it is best that anybody can do - it is not do anything, becouse it may produce "drama in discussion"?
14:26
it took 5
the first before anyone even remembers, maybe 10 years ago ... derick wrote it iirc ...
I think that further proves @Danack's point, the RFCs had to be revised before they passed
you can't produce the kind of no-brainer rfc that niki and bob produced for typed properties without the benefit of discussion, it's just flat untrue that things that are going to pass need no discussion ..
@Tiffany it does precisely the opposite ...
@Danack I am confused.
But they didn't pass on the first attempt where discussion occurred. After discussion, the authors had to take a step back and redo the proposal. I don't know Yasuo so I can't say this with certainty, but with his failed RFCs, if he took the criticism people pointed out and revised his RFCs so they answered all the questions people had previously, would they have passed?
@JoeWatkins the RFC where discussion took place did not pass. The revised RFC that answered questions based on prior discussions did
> The revised RFC that answered questions based on prior discussions did
14:32
But that's just it - it required a second attempt
so ... discussion is required ... that's my point, you can't say "RFC's that are going to pass don't need discussion"
@JoeWatkins my point is the other way round. If an RFC is complete enough to not need discussion, it's far more likely to pass.
Yeah, that's not always achievable, but it is desirable.
And in this case:
The problem is the RFC process is draining and if the author is shot down the first time after discussion, they may not feel up to going through it a second time, even if after the discussion, they've answered the questions and fixed problems in their code
@rjhdby I don't think the RFC lays out a strong enough case of why removing it is the right choice. Which is going to lead to discussion about why the RFC might be right or wrong. Making a clearer case for why removing that syntax in the RFC would lead to less discussion, and make it more likely for the RFC to pass.
While stalking the list, my impression is that the discussions aren't a problem because they are discussions. They are a problem because they come up when the rfcs are in the voting phase
14:35
On the one hand, I think it would be nice for an informal approach to discuss topics to avoid the draining process, on the other hand, the formal process is entirely necessary.
I view the iteration over versions of an RFC, and the discussion that comes in between as necessary ... stating that there shouldn't need to be discussion is wrong in my view, because they are most of the time necessary, so is failure ...
@Danack blog.golemon.com/2006/01/youre-not-badfor-girl.html here's a perfect example of "what's not good to say off list"
Uuuuuugh
what's not good to say ... ever ... to anyone ... that is quite unbelievable behaviour ...
Yeah, exactly, but the person said it off list because they didn't want consequences from posting it on list...
If they felt it controversial enough to post off list, they shouldn't have posted it at all
Hey @Tiffany got that resume?
14:51
@Allenph i will this week. I received the first draft last Friday and sent revisions Saturday. Did you see my last message on discord, by chance?
Oh. Nope.
Basically I just don't want you to stick your neck out for me and to have it fail horribly, but I was feeling pretty crappy about myself that week, and am feeling slightly better now.
I'm sure you'll be fine.
As long as I can stay on my medication ... things will be fine ... >.<
@Tiffany IMHO, if you are a chauvinist you should be proud and bold with your opinions :D
this one seems more like a gutless wonder
then again, that's my attitude towards opinions in general: you either are wiling to stand up and defend your opinions (and be ready to change them, if you are proven to be wrong) or they are not YOUR opinions
15:07
@tereško I don't exactly remember. I have abandoned it, mostly.
If I had more time then I'd love to pick it back up again, along with union and intersection types.
And generics, and so on...
it's just someone I know started looking for them :D
How's it going teresko?
it's ok
@LeviMorrison by the way, should I take over the covariance patch?
I have the time to wrap that up ^^
If you want to, that would be great. I rebased it recently -- I think it's variance-7.4.
It hasn't seen more updates because I've been thinking more about the limitation with namespaces + braces.
I've had some ideas, but didn't like them.
Although, I think it's fine to ship with the limitation.
What do you think, @NikiC?
15:14
@LeviMorrison Eh, I think if we're going through the effort of having delayed variance checking, we should do it right
You know, I would have been fine without it entirely, but if we have it, it should work reliably ^^
I'll take a look at that
It's "easy" to fix -- on every opcode generated see if the opcode is not one of the whitelisted ops, and if it isn't a whitelisted op then emit all of the checks that have accumulated, and start an empty set.
Let me know if you think of anything better, that isn't also horrid.
@NikiC
> This implements a small hack for the CLI SAPI
the cli doesn't always deal with one request ... threads ...
@JoeWatkins what?
Multiple requests per thread?
no, but each thread starts it's own request
Ah, that's not a problem
Globals are per-thread anyway
15:18
okay cool, I'm on way out door and didn't read ...
okay cool ...
Though I can't say I like what I did there ... special casing per-sapi is probably a bad idea
16:02
*headdesk*
what's per-sapi ?
@Shafizadeh google says SAPI is Server Application Programming Interface
Segmentation fault – #77793
@Tiffany oh, I thought per-sapi is another thing .. thx :-)
@Shafizadeh it would depend on context, I'd have to see the rest of the sentence to know if I'm correct
16:14
ah, well I was interested to understand the last sentence of NikiC
@Jeeves Why are people always doing these goofy things? PHP shouldn't segfault, but sheesh, why would you do this?
16:27
just for fun? 3v4l.org/Irmu5
I want to start contributing to PHP. I remember reading that the best way to begin contributing is by helping with test coverage (writing tests). In order to do this, do I need to compile PHP from source? Or can I use my distro's package?
And if I need to compile from source, which extensions should I include, or does it vary based on which tests I would be writing?
When you don't read internals for a couple of days because you are at boardgame retreat and come back ... to read a novel. Are you kidding me?
@SebastianBergmann Lester? I just trashed that thread. Not worth my time.
@LeviMorrison Yes.
@SebastianBergmann which board games?
... I have a box of board games from my office that I need to figure out what to do with ...
16:41
@Tiffany I played "Brass: Birmingham", "Twilight Imperium (4E)" (that one took 10 hours with 6 players!), "Everdell", "Architects of the West Kingdom", and "Subatomic".
Hmmm, any you recommend?
Hah! The vote for the removal of ext/interbase end on my birthday.
@Tiffany I enjoyed all of them. Forgot to mention "Museum".
If you like co-op games that take a lot of set up, but are pretty fun, Spirit Island is a good one
@Tiffany That was played at a another table. Looked interesting.
There's an initial learning curve for it that took a group with me about an hour or two to figure out, but we're a bunch of amateurs
Veteran board gamers could probably pick it up quicker... but it is fun.
I should look for a local board game meetup... make use of what I have
@SebastianBergmann have you played Coup or Formula D?
huh, Subatomic looks like a game I could play with my niece and nephew maybe
16:57
@SebastianBergmann Terrible novel: started off well, got horribly derailed in the middle, and no real ending. Rating: ★☆☆☆☆
@NikiC I'll try look a the VirtualProtect() thing tonight. Opcache just spews so many warnings out when compiling =(
@Kalle thanks :)
@Kalle heh
We should maybe get on top of those warnings sometime ...
... or at least the linux warnings, of which there are much fewer, but which still remain unfixed :/
17:13
I would love if we had a warning killing spree in master at least, its rather annoying at least on Windows as if you change a file in a directory, the whole directory is re-compiled
I can already tell I'm going to hate working with LLVM
so, clang has this nice -ast-dump option which dumps the AST. really awesome, right?
Well
Uh, what AST?
Or is this clang?
// test.c
typedef char foo[sizeof(long)];

// clang -dump-ast
|-TypedefDecl 0x5570e5fba798 <test.c:5:1, col:30> col:14 foo 'char [8]'
| `-ConstantArrayType 0x5570e5fba740 'char [8]' 8
|   `-BuiltinType 0x5570e5fb9b60 'char'
yes, clang
it resolves the sizeof expression at parse time
@ircmaxell I wouldn't be surprised if that's actually required for C++
why?
why wouldn't it do that as a compile step?
17:24
@ircmaxell Because in C++ the type system heavily influences parsing. Maybe that 8 can impact a template specialization and that changes the interpretation of some code ... or something?
sigh
why did I get into this
@ircmaxell Well, I can't be sure, but I think your masochistic tendencies are a prime suspect :P
yea, true
Okay, I'm deviating from Clang's AST then
@JoeWatkins um when is GINIT run?
Is it MINIT -> GINIT -> RINIT?
ginit = globals_ctor, minit = module_startup_func
@NikiC and template specializations are evaluated at parse time?!
17:40
@bwoebi iirc you need to handle template expansion during parsing
And I believe that would also include template specialization
what exactly do you mean with template expansion?
but apparently clang handles specializations before it creates an ast
@NikiC I've been today annoyed by MyStruct my; if (a) { my = MyStruct(foo); } else { my = MyStruct(bar); } does not work if MyStruct does not have a default ctor. Maybe you have some idea... Is there any way to delay the initialization of the variable until inside the if without resorting to an ugly ternary?
And also why? The value is never read before the first write...
Then tell me
please :-P
Oh wait, you need it in both if an else...
in C++17 you can initialization in an if statement.
I am using C++17 actually
17:53
# Is there a reason you can't do this, other than you don't like it?
MyStruct my{a ? MyStruct(foo) : MyStruct(bar)};
But anyway, you can definitely use a lambda.
@bwoebi Not aware of any way to do that, apart the ternary you already mentioned...
@LeviMorrison I'm constructing foo and bar as well inside the if statement, was just simplified for illustration purposes… and I'd not like to resort to a comma operator
MyStruct my{[&]() {
  if (a) {
    return MyStruct(foo);
  } else {
    return MyStruct(bar);
  }
}()}; // roughly, maybe needs a pair of parens
Ah yes, that looks like C++ alright :P
that looks like character soup, worse than regex
:-D
17:55
Have to use that same trick if you need the local variable to be const, but has different initialization paths...
@bwoebi The solution, of course, is to migrate to Rust wink wink
:-D
@LeviMorrison yeah, const hackery in C++ is the worst
I mean the concept is nice
but god…
I guess half of my compile error fixing time is spent handling const
because some structures in the stdlib allow const to be passed and received with some calls, but not with all, and some don't really at all and … sigh
I've been debugging why my CUDA repo isn't signed. Eventually, found a 1 character diff: http works and https doesn't.
I'm so sad. "Yeah, let me just download the signatures of this server over unecrypted http."
Thanks, nvidia.
18:13
🤔🤔🤔
apparently if I do run-tests.php on my laptop, one of the tests makes it try to send mail, fail, and result in me “receiving” a couldn't be delivered error in /var/mail :D
18:35
lemme guess - you were looking for where 2TB of space went
Wes
Wes
evenings
i have a plan. i have prepared a RFC for april fools. everybody will hate me
18:54
I would really appreciate it if someone could help me out? Thanks. stackoverflow.com/questions/55344550/…
@AdamG "erusev/parsedown v1.7.2 requires ext-mbstring" - it needs the mbstring extension. do `yum search mbstring and find what it is called precisely and install it...
I didn't ask how to fix the errors, I've fixed them now via installing them dom and mbstring but I asked for an explanation.
@AdamG linux distributions usually only install php core and all other extensions need to be installed manually, so that you can keep the number of installed things low
whereas on windows you probably used some install everything in one installer thingy which activates all extensions
Thanks, are you able to comment on the export PATH="~/.composer/vendor/bin:$PATH" part?
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