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Wes
1:33 AM
twitter.com/molly_struve/status/1108175906609213440 think you are hipster... think twice...
 
 
3 hours later…
Wes
4:31 AM
any way to dereference this to a copy without using a iife, for example, given
$obj->foo[23] = 123;
i don't want it to modify the array in $obj directly, but modify a local copy, like
($_ = $obj->foo)[23] = 123;
but this does not work (Cannot use temporary expression in write context)
must be a single expression
((array)$obj->foo)[23] also is disallowed
actually, maybe i want it to be disallowed lol
as long reading works
 
 
1 hour later…
5:38 AM
\o
@kelunik I did this morning ... opcache is being a pita, it wants to be a feature of it because of the way it manipulates function/class tables
it's also not going to be a very efficient thing, necessarily having to wipe out run time caches for all loaded functions/methods, as well as everything on the stack all the way up ... it also would have to iterate over all arginfos in all methods/functions and change them, parents, interfaces, somehow rebind traits ... it would be rather a lot of mess, and for a complex application, I wonder if it wouldn't be more efficient just to restart the process (I'm pretty sure it would) ...
 
6:06 AM
@kelunik reading: gist.github.com/krakjoe/9c11289b3f8ff64a6c0c64d3b8bbc02c ... works without opcache, there's probably a way around opcache from an extension, but just look how complicated it is already, and consider how complicated it will become for a complete implementation ...
 
Wes
6:23 AM
hey joe. mornings
 
configure: WARNING: unrecognized options: --enable-gd-native-ttf, --with-mcrypt – #77770
 
Wes
6:55 AM
so basically i will be able to replace classes and functions at runtime?
 
it's possible, but not very nice ...
it needs to be a feature of opcache, and I have zero interest in working on or near opcache ...
 
Wes
lol
 
7:26 AM
I wonder who those people are that moderate PHPUnit questions on StackOverflow.
-1
Q: PHPUnit old version manual no longer found

YudaiToday, I accessed PHPUnit 3.4 manual(Japanese Version). https://phpunit.de/manual/3.4/ja/test-doubles.html I referred to the below to know the URL. https://phpunit.de/documentation.html Until yesterday, I could found this manual, but today no longer found this manual. Can I found this manual?

It can be argued that this should have been reported as an issue to PHPUnit's website project on GitHub.
But it is definitely not "asking to recommend or find a book, tool, software library, tutorial or other off-site resource". Oh, well.
 
Wes
7:53 AM
meanwhile in italy... anti vax leader hospitalized because he isn't vaccinated dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6825653/…
 
canker to become infested with erosive or spreading sores
 
8:20 AM
@SebastianBergmann completely valid close reason. Dead links on your website are not SO question material.
also, once you fixed this, the question has no value for future visitors whatsoever
 
8:38 AM
git mernings
 
@Gordon Makes sense, I guess.
 
9:40 AM
I'd also be more happy for people to approach projects directly than having everyone monitor SO for these types of things
 
10:03 AM
today is going really slowly ... I blame @PeeHaa
 
Sorry
 
apology accepted, just fix the passage of time, asap ...
 
Let me wake up first and I will handle it
 
k thnx
 
10:29 AM
morns
 
10:43 AM
@JoeWatkins well, I don't think there's a real way, short of copying all the compiled entities post-compilation into their own arena (i.e. retaining nothing in shmem).
 
I haven't thought about what it would look like in opcache, but yeah it's not so straight forward as it seems ... while writing I just started to think it's not really worth it ...
 
@JoeWatkins Cool. I'm fine with opcache being disabled, I guess, as it's just for development purposes.
Does anyone know when the kernel frees the memory of a dying process? pgrep doesn't list the process as running anymore, but the memory still seems to be used when the process is re-spawned after killing and waiting for its exit via pgrep in a loop.
 
Good Morning, Room!
!!wednesday
 
hello friends
@JoeWatkins why u soo lazy coach
 
10:54 AM
I don't know what that means
 
i ma a new comer..frndz.just fr testing as like hellow 1,2,3 hellow ...
 
Didn't we have the linux kernel in lxr.room11.org?
 
I think not
 
no
 
seems useful though, add it
@kelunik got shell ?
 
11:14 AM
hello ..i am from dhaka,Bangladesh.Please some information about zend exam praparation resource..?
 
my brain read it as "dakka"
 
it was dacca before 1971 ..
 
11:39 AM
@JoeWatkins Access you mean? Yes, have that somewhere at home.
 
adding it, will appear in the next 24~
 
Thanks :-)
 
12:02 PM
@kelunik nope, I usually use elixir.bootlin.com/linux/latest/source
 
oh can grok do that filter thing ?
 
12:18 PM
The password is "Kitty kitty cat, kitty kitty cat cat."
 
> I don't want to sound rude, but the only reason to avoid a framework in 2019 (apart from a deliberate learning) is illiteracy in web-development.
 
Anyone seen these Google commercials?
 
"rude" is not the first thing that comes my mind ...
 
@JoeWatkins pretentious?
 
Who said this?
 
12:22 PM
@bwoebi something between over simplified and idiotic, the perfect reddit content ...
 
@JoeWatkins Just look at the author's name
 
@JoeWatkins You know who that joker is, he got banned from SO for being a bit of a jackass
 
Death by a thousand cuts.
 
aspergers isn't an excuse for being an asshole.
 
Always has an avatar of some general guy
 
12:25 PM
top of the discussion though ... if you're willing to say something shocking, you deserve up votes, apparently ...
@Jimbo didn't know that
 
@JoeWatkins It's YCS
 
His area of ranting used to be PDO and parameterised queries if I remember correctly
 
oh, I remember that name, if it contained typeof(sense)===common ... I didn't know they were kicked off so though ...
 
That's the one :-)
 
@Jimbo I was wondering if it was common sense when you said that. He has just a few more days until he's free.
 
12:27 PM
awesome. It looks like the moderators removed the "why is /r/php so toxic" thread. Because that will solve the problem.
 
@Jimbo Isn't that Your Common Sense?
 
@StatikStasis Ah yeah that's the one, his name was on the tip of my tongue
 
@Danack Shut up. Also your code sucks and you should feel bad
:P
 
@JoeWatkins Because they were extraordinarily rude and pretentious to literally everyone.
 
@JoeWatkins "At least in part because the whole of Reddit is toxic, and designed to promote 'conversation' (aka drama) which gives more ad impressions, and not designed for useful discourse"
apropos of absolutely nothing: profofpot.com/cannabis-can-worsen-pain nsfw for drug discussion.
 
12:30 PM
@MadaraUchiha I bet he is just a pure delight to work with in an office.
 
> However, there are no CB1 receptor blockers that are currently commercially available
Sounds like one would need more gray area substances to help with the gray area substances? :P
 
Or get a doctor to examine the patient while on CBD so they can see where the pain is actually coming from and do something about the source, rather than just trying to block the pain.
 
Hey, can someone please explain what "block" means in this context?
> By default, this function will block until the requested lock is acquired

It is also possible to add LOCK_NB as a bitmask to one of the above operations if you don't want flock() to block while locking.
 
@Danack That's what a smart person would do. I would go for the more drugs solution IANAD :P
 
Does the first statement mean that the function will wait till the lock is acquired?
 
12:38 PM
@Danack it's not super surprising, in the absence of methodology to determine the correct dose of the grey area thing, shit's going to happen ... the only real painkillers we have derive from opium, the side effects of this are just horrendous, some people, myself included will not put opium into my body (again) unless I'm told I will definitely die if I don't ... what this is, is good reason for more research, we just don't know enough yet ... interesting read though ...
 
@rahuldottech yes
 
@PeeHaa great, thanks :)
 
np
 
@rahuldottech until it gets the lock or an error occurs.
 
I dunno if I agree that /r/php is toxic ... I don't think you can have a toxic "place", people can be toxic, so can conversations ... but places ... take all of the people out of that place, and replace them with different people, you removed the toxicity, because it wasn't in the place it was the people ....
 
12:47 PM
@JoeWatkins yes, which is why I occasionally 'act like a dick' here by calling out bad behaviour when it starts, rather than waiting for it to affect the nature of discourse, as people's behaviour evolves from the worst behaviour allowed in a place.
 
> people's behaviour evolves from the worst behaviour allowed in a place.
 
Wes
what happened?
 
23 mins ago, by Danack
awesome. It looks like the moderators removed the "why is /r/php so toxic" thread. Because that will solve the problem.
 
I'm not sure how you determine that ... if you really believe that, you would have to think that if murder were legalised tomorrow, we would all be murderers by tomorrow night ... behaviour, globally, derives from the golden rule, it's just that some people can't or won't empathise as well as others, we call those people dicks, or toxic ...
 
aka nothing untypical.
@JoeWatkins "I'm not sure how you determine that " Mostly from working at dysfunctional companies. e.g. one company where it was accepted that people would shout at each other in meetings.....everyone who didn't like shouting left the company, so the company was left with lots of people who enjoyed shouting in meetings.....good luck changing that culture piecemeal.
 
12:55 PM
it was the people there that made it dysfunctional though, the same as it's the people on reddit that turn some conversations toxic ... I don't think there's anything about the format of reddit that encourages you to behave in any particular way ...
 
The lack of a ignore button......
The way it pushes 'activity' aka drama to the top...
 
you are making that association, plenty of discussions get >100 points and stay at the top for days and don't contain any of what you would consider toxic ... that shows beyond doubt you can behave reasonably and have a reasonable outcome ...
 
Wes
what was that thread about? there is a lot of drama on rphp for the traffic it has...
 
I am still genuinely amazed at your interest in everything that is on or comes out of reddit
 
@Wes not much - possibly due as you say that reddit not having much traffic: en.reddit.com/r/PHP/comments/b2zhig/…
 
1:03 PM
@Gordon like what? Cancer and butthurt?
 
@tereško if that's what you are interested in on reddit, then yes, that.
 
Podcast goes live tomorrow morning
 
I'm recording one with derick this evening too
he's really going at it ... I dunno if the world at large are that interested in internals ...
 
how nice
he also has them on spotify
oh, happy belated birthday @JoeWatkins :) hope it was a good one
 
@Ekin thanks
I was incapacitated by ... some time before lunch, and slept most of the day ... so yeah, standard birthday ...
 
1:09 PM
sounds like a relaxed one, that's nice
 
morning guys
 
@bwoebi review this please: github.com/php/php-src/pull/3965
it seems to ignroe the note, and I'm not exactly clear on why we had a fake handle ...
and I'm not sure what that find_ptr is doing there ...
 
Is this sentence correct? "aha, well no, that's not type of the musics I usually listen to"
 
1:25 PM
no
aha, well no, that's not the type of music I usually listen to
 
ah I see, thx
 
mmm, I've missed a cup of English breakfast tea
 
2:21 PM
ReflectionClass::getMethods(null) doesn't work – #77772
 
@JoeWatkins I don't either :-/ It's been too long of a time. The find_ptr() handles the trivial case when a same file is included multiple times.
I wish we had a test for that so that there would be some proof why I did that
ugh
hm
 
no bugsnet ref, not sure what was wrong ?
@bwoebi wouldn't that be handled by compile_file ?
I didn't dig, it just looks suspect ...
 
Hi!
 
@JoeWatkins compile_file will happily recompile it. But he wants to not save the same code twice. Though this is not fine if the included file gets (intentionally) changed between two includes
So at least that is bad
 
yeah
 
2:30 PM
Uh it's more complicated actually
both current and past behavior are bad to some degree
if you have functions (wrapped in function_exists()), the function code will contain the first runs code
but the code of the file itself will be the new code
 
I have issues with Git dammit
 
@Danack I don't think r/php is toxic, but maybe people read the posts that have negative scores..?
Removing the thread about it though seems fine, though. What do you think the average outcome of that thread will be if it is true? A bunch of fighting -- no thanks. If it's not true, then why promote it?
Though locking the thread may have been a better option.
 
@bwoebi doesn't clean clear tables ?
I think it does
 
@JoeWatkins it does
but how does that matter?
 
so if you run, and then run again, the second time the file is included the tables are empty already, right ?
 
2:38 PM
eih, but your actual code might include a same file twice
include "foo.php"; /* overwrite foo.php programmatically here */ include "foo.php";
 
well that would be horrible
 
2:58 PM
it is, but just mentioning the possibility
 
I don't think you can do what you propose there ...
 
@JoeWatkins why not?
Isn't that the standard way to deal with stack overflows?
 
can you set the stack for a signal handler ?
I'm not sure, I just started to read about that idea, and read that most of the time (and I take that to mean most implementations) the signal handler will be invoked on the overflowed stack, and just cause a segfault (first another overflow) ...
 
@JoeWatkins yes, you can
 
ah, that'll work then ...
 
3:08 PM
@JoeWatkins sigaltstack()
 
yeah I just found it, never seen that before
 
@JoeWatkins can't say I ever actually tried this, but it should be possible
 
I'll have a go
 
There are some caveats in that you can overflow the stack in a way that misses the guard page
So it might be necessary to compile with some kind of stack probing option to make it fully reliable
But that's details :)
 
well first question, how do you get addressof that page ? second question, do we need to care what caused the fault, or can we more generally just have nice way of handling faults regardless of address that caused it ?
we can compare the originating address to the guard page to change the error message, but more generally why not just handle all faults nicely is what I'm trying to say ?
 
3:18 PM
@JoeWatkins github.com/rust-lang/rust/blob/… might be of interest
@JoeWatkins I'd very much prefer not to interfere with that
that's going to make debugging crashes harder
 
ah that's true
 
if it's a genuine segfault we want to generate coredump as usual
 
@NikiC very much of interest
 
3:34 PM
the answer to the first question is "not easily" ... or "not in a portable way" ...
get_stack_start ...
 
4:00 PM
@JoeWatkins don't signal handlers have a small red zone they are going to be run on by default? okay, no. I'm confusing things.
 
Unbuffered queries leak memory - MySQLi / mysqlnd – #77773
 
4:14 PM
@JoeWatkins either way, awesome :D
I've been thinking about starting a podcast with my wife
 
@bwoebi do you have a nice single-line sample regex handy? Where one could show a nice matching trace?
 
4:39 PM
posted on March 20, 2019 by CommitStrip

 
@NikiC what for?
what type of trace do you mean? A regex which ends up in a stack overflow?
 
Can someone explain the purpose of conditionally including function definitions like this‌​?
Nevermind, a little digging led to this issue and this composer issue.
 
@Trowski wordpress also uses them to let plugins overwrite some functionality
 
Morning.
 
@kuh-chan That sounds… terrifying.
 
4:55 PM
@bwoebi callout tracing example
@bwoebi I produce this kind of output: gist.github.com/nikic/6b70a79788e4b289b26ef0365dc5a227
 
5:09 PM
I've done this... i.redd.it/i4yg0q2dl9n21.png
 
We all have.
 
I usually have something like "You're still an idiot..." in else statement that is not expected to run.
 
@StatikStasis or heavy use of var_dump
 
@Tiffany \o/
Haven't seen you in a bit!
 
\o
I need ot get some work done today
 
5:17 PM
Me too
I'm here to procrastinate but no one is really helping me.
Sooooo I'm going to probably have to start working now... in a minute.
Unless anyone has anything interesting to say... or that they're doing... anyone? Hello?
Sigh... back to work then.
 
I opened another room to talk about guns with you, if that counts.
 
lol- did you?
I don't see it.
 
@NikiC I have quite a lot of regexes full of escaped metacharacters making them quite a character soup to read :-D
One of the more harmless samples I have at hand: (?:<\s*([a-z-]+)[^>]*>\s*)(?R)(?:\s*<\s*/\s*\1\s*>)|\(\(#[^):]+\)\)|\[\[#[^:\]]‌​+]]|{{#[^}:]+}} (to replace every {{#...}}, ((#…)), [[#…]] with possible surrounding HTML (in my case it's safe to do the [^>]+ :-D)
oh lol
I triggered an easter egg
 
5:32 PM
@bwoebi hm... wonder if I can get a html tag tree using callouts...
 
@NikiC that might be interesting. I currently do extract it via PREG_OFFSET_CAPTURE and find the substring between start of match and the inner match
and then splitting on >\K\s*<
 
@StatikStasis for all the trouble life keeps throwing at me, things are falling into place. Paid two months of rent so I wouldn't have to worry about that, and my utilities deposit from six months ago was refunded, so I don't have to worry about that for two months either. Such a relief.
@NikiC you should write a book or blog post on how you're so productive
You're brilliant in that regard
 
5:47 PM
anyone know much about vba?
never mind, figured it out.
 
How does conflict resolution work for typed properties? Doc says there will be an E_STRICT warning if same value and visibility and initial value. But how it'll work if class or trait has declared type and the other not?
 
6:04 PM
@brzuchal error
@brzuchal at least if traits have conflicting types ... I'm not sure what our semantics are between trait & class
 
6:27 PM
@NikiC couple things on pcre partial matching.. I'm not super comfortable introducing a modifier that pcre hasn't (makes things awkward if they want to later use one that conflicts, also partial matching isn't so much a feature of the expression itself), I'd rather follow pcre's api lead and use an option bit on the match function
also I suspect pcre2_jit_compile() should always include PCRE2_JIT_COMPLETE.. at least I can't come up with a reason not to
 
@Paul Can do
I mainly went with modifiers because we need to influence jit compilation
But I can also compile with additional modes later, I believe PCRE supports that
@Paul with modifiers that doesn't make sense, because it will never be used. With preg_match() flags yes, we'd have to always compile for COMPLETE
 
yeah, and attempts to recompile with the same mode should be a quick noop for that mode
 
I'm still not sure if it's semantically right though
Generally everything that influences matching behavior is a modifier right now, while flags only influence how the output looks
And not following PCRE wrt modifiers is not really new, I believe that most of our modifiers do not come from PCRE
 
i think only one of our modifiers doesn't match pcre's right now
 
Do you have a reference for pcre modifiers?
 
6:38 PM
no, you're right, we have others too
 
We support the imsxuADSUXJ modifiers, I think only the first four are standard
 
not sure why I thought pcre had more
 
6:56 PM
btw, a new object oriented API for PCRE would be excellent.. we could support stuff like callout callbacks without polluting things globally (or introducing some weird context resource)
 
@NikiC is the PR for short closures up-to-date with your latest work on it?
 
PHP Release feed broken – #77774
 
7:14 PM
@LeviMorrison yeah, I haven't done anything there recently
@Paul I was going to add callouts via an extra function
OO API would certainly be nice, but probably still a bit farther away...
 
@NikiC that seems weird
 
slightly, but no good other way to integrate it
short of adding a callout parameter to all functions
 
I'd rather wait for an OO api to add it
 
@Paul I've been bitten by that kind of thinking before
That's something that might happen for 7.4, or we might be talking about this again at 9.2
I'd rather expose the functionality now ... especially as this is the 0.01% expert use-case where the actual API doesn't matter.
$oldCallout = preg_callout_function(function() {});
preg_match_whatever();
preg_callout_function($oldCallout);
Making this dependent on a "refactor all the things" change so this code can be reduced by one line is not a good tradeoff to me
 
it's not so much the number of lines, it's the mucking around with global state that bothers me
 
8:23 PM
@NikiC did you forget about the serialisation vote, or is it still open on purpose?
@NikiC Also, I looked into the thing Anatol mailed about... sadly, going by the news stories from earlier this year, we don't need to do anything more.
 
8:44 PM
@NikiC amphp/cluster has the ability to restart the cluster with a SIGUSR1 signal to the watcher process. Would there be a way to hook into PhpStorm to send this signal to that process (probably configured with Run/Debug Configurations) when a relevant file is modified? Something similar to recompile in the Java IDE perhaps?
 
@salathe thanks, I totally forgot about that
 
@NikiC have you ever attempted a b-tree structure for PHP?
Or made some notes on how you might approach one?
 
@salathe oh wow
Didn't see that coming
 
@NikiC no problemo :)
 
@Trowski I have no idea. I don't actually know stuff about PhpStorm ^^
@rtheunissen Nope, never tried. As you know, I'm not a big fan of tree-based structures...
 
8:54 PM
@NikiC That's kind of funny actually, though not entirely unsurprising. Who should I ping with that question?
 
I don't think I ever had a need for a b-tree
 
@NikiC Or at least a need to write one yourself.
 
@Trowski Ping @phpstorm on Twitter?
 
@NikiC Ok. Sometimes it helps to ping a specific person so I thought I'd ask.
 
@Trowski Don't think I ever used one either, at least not knowingly. Unless you have B+ tree indexes in databases in mind?
 
9:03 PM
@NikiC Yep, specifically was thinking of databases. Only time I ever used a b-tree in my own code was a college project.
 
@rtheunissen What usage do you have in mind?
 
Not nearly that low level - I was thinking for an online sort, or just anything that you can guarantee is sorted. I have to admit I have also never needed one directly but I did use TreeSet and TreeMap a lot when I was working with Java.
 
@rtheunissen what did you use it for in java?
 
Eg.. a map of account_id => account_obj. The accounts must be ordered alphabetically at all times, and everything that uses the map makes that assertion to avoid the need to sort defensively.
Maybe not the best example. I
^ I was too slow on the edit now it's all gone.
 
would the foreach macros just work on a traversable in c extension?
 
9:13 PM
Things that generate sorted datasets, where you wouldn't want to sort before every yield.
 
@beberlei no
They're just for arrays
you need quite a lot more code for iterators....
 
not that foreaching arrays is not already a lot of code :p
thank you for the quick help
 
@beberlei isn't that two lines?
 
plus declarations
but youre right, its reasonably short :)
 
@beberlei github.com/php/php-src/blob/master/ext/spl/… might be useful for reference
(or for usage, for that matter)
 
9:16 PM
thanks
 
9:27 PM
@NikiC how much interaction do you actually have with your work peers from JetBrains?
 

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